The New Apple Mac Pro: The Ultimate Multimedia Machine - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 99 Old 06-18-2013, 04:18 PM
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My thinking is that sure, the graphics in the Mac Pro are a mismatch for gaming. The flip side is that the Apple manages to dissipate the heat from two GPUs and a 12-core processor using a single fan. Unless gaming rigs are radically redesigned, in DIY PC land, a HTPC and a gaming rig will remain two totally separate things. How many fans will it take to cool a "cheaper" PC with similar capability?

A couple of spare thoughts: The new Mac Pro will not cost more than the old Mac Pro—simply because it does not contain as many parts—and I can easily see this design used in a more affordable configuration. Finally, I'd love to see a PC builder (hello Asus) copy the form factor. I'm all for external components.

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Such configurations are not an option with the new Mac Pro. Data transfer is via Thunderbolt 2 to external drives. One cable does it all. That's the whole point of the new design, you're not going to fill it up with all kinds of spinning disc drives. Those comparisons are meaningless. With a machine like this, paying for internet bandwidth and using the cloud is the key—not building a legacy server tower/space heater.cool.gif

I predict a final cost of $3000-4000. Maybe $4,995 fully loaded. I'm sure there will be aftermarket "thunderbolt bays" that one can fill with cheap legacy drives, to their heart's content. Apple products command a premium versus DIY PCs that use optimum price/performance aftermarket parts—no surprises there. I don't see this machine setting a new precedent for high prices, namely costing anywhere near five-figures.
It remains to be seen just how well this machine is going to perform as far as heat and acoustics are concerned. It'll also be interesting to see what happens when someone inevitably rests something on top of it by accident. O_O

Also, if you were to build an HTPC for gaming, you could easily use liquid cooling (like with the SD rigs). And then you'd be able to OC it as well.

As for price, it's all still speculation, but there is absolutely no way a fully loaded Mac Pro is going to cost less than $5,000. It just isn't possible given the hardware, and Apple's history of inordinately high prices. My guess is that your entry-level Pro will cost around $2,000-$2,500, with the beefiest configurations nearing 5-digits.

And I don't think anyone is going to copy that form factor. As an HTPC, a cylinder isn't exactly stackable, and on the desktop side of things, it isn't expandable/may not be easily serviceable (which I would think may be a larger factor as far as businesses are concerned).
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post #92 of 99 Old 06-18-2013, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
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It remains to be seen just how well this machine is going to perform as far as heat and acoustics are concerned. It'll also be interesting to see what happens when someone inevitably rests something on top of it by accident. O_O

Also, if you were to build an HTPC for gaming, you could easily use liquid cooling (like with the SD rigs). And then you'd be able to OC it as well.

As for price, it's all still speculation, but there is absolutely no way a fully loaded Mac Pro is going to cost less than $5,000. It just isn't possible given the hardware, and Apple's history of inordinately high prices. My guess is that your entry-level Pro will cost around $2,000-$2,500, with the beefiest configurations nearing 5-digits.

And I don't think anyone is going to copy that form factor. As an HTPC, a cylinder isn't exactly stackable, and on the desktop side of things, it isn't expandable/may not be easily serviceable (which I would think may be a larger factor as far as businesses are concerned).

I can't say that I agree with any of that, except for the "extry level" pricing. We'll see. From what I can tell, the new Mac pro is not designed to have a "beefy" configuration, what you see is what you get. The design looks tremendously accessible and serviceable—all of the components face out, when the cover is removed.

It will be the first time in history that a ground-breaking Apple Mac design was not copied by PC makers —of course it will be imitated. Central Cooling Cores will definitely start to appear on workstation-class computers—and gaming rigs, I would imagine.

Stackability is so low on my list of priorities, it's in the same category as whether the power cable uses a round or a flat cord. I was not discussing the suitability of the Mac pro for businesses. If it's a creative agency, video production house, movie studio, and any other field where graphics-intensive work is the norm, this is likely the machine they are going to get.

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post #93 of 99 Old 06-18-2013, 06:04 PM
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You know, I had never really looked too closely at it, just brushed it off as the Mac I won't be able to afford, in a bizarre case. But that's a pretty wild design! One giant heatsink in the middle....that thing has got to have enormous surface area, cooled by what looks like one huge squirrel fan. Then the major components facing inwards on 3 sides, all connected to a different face. Really never seen anything like it in my life. I bet it's super quiet, the gigantic heatsink will handle most of the cooling passively. At idle or minor load, the fan probably doesn't even need to spin at all.

It looks like the GPUs are far from standard, but you might be able to interchange them with cards from later models, as long as they keep the same design around. Looks like you need to swap out the whole motherboard to change the CPU though.

If money was no object, I'd totally buy one.

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post #94 of 99 Old 06-18-2013, 07:54 PM
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I can't say that I agree with any of that, except for the "extry level" pricing. We'll see. From what I can tell, the new Mac pro is not designed to have a "beefy" configuration, what you see is what you get. The design looks tremendously accessible and serviceable—all of the components face out, when the cover is removed.

It will be the first time in history that a ground-breaking Apple Mac design was not copied by PC makers —of course it will be imitated. Central Cooling Cores will definitely start to appear on workstation-class computers—and gaming rigs, I would imagine.

Stackability is so low on my list of priorities, it's in the same category as whether the power cable uses a round or a flat cord. I was not discussing the suitability of the Mac pro for businesses. If it's a creative agency, video production house, movie studio, and any other field where graphics-intensive work is the norm, this is likely the machine they are going to get.
I don't remember anyone copying the Cube. Or if they did, they didn't do it for long. tongue.gif Besides, Apple is usually the one who does the copying, they just manage to produce more enticing products than the originals, so people often forget about the prototypes from other manufacturers. That being said, This new Mac Pro is certainly unique. Much like the Piston PC is unique. It remains to be seen if either one will be successful, though if I were to place a bet, I'd definitely bet on Apple.

As for the price, they said things like, "up to 6GB of VRAM" which suggests that there'll be lower cost options. At the high-end, two W9000's isn't going to be cheap, even if Apple gets them at a much lower price. All of the estimates I've seen have it nearing 5 digits for the highest-end builds. Macworld seems to agree and they have the entry-level model coming in at $2,500. The high-end model probably will start under $5,000, but that'd be a no-frills version.

But we're all still speculating, which I guess is part of the fun. lol
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post #95 of 99 Old 06-19-2013, 10:27 AM
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As someone who has owned a Mac Pro for quite a while, and made it into an HTPC, I'm going to give my version of the car analogy -- if you get this thing for HTPC use, it's going to be like buying a Ferrari and driving it 50 yards a day.

Listen -- I love my Mac Pro. It has been very useful to me over the years. But let me just put it this way;

I have an 8-core MP from 'waaayy' back in '08, w/ 16 gigs of RAM.
And I've run W7 on it in Bootcamp,
and attached an aftermarket HD6970 for graphics and lossless audio,
and installed a BR drive,
and used it with a Ceton (Windows side) and multiple HD tuners on the mac side,
and been driving 3 1080p displays in a 7.2 theater,
and archived on the order of 1800 Blu-rays, HDDVD's, and DVD's on it over the yrs,
and I use it to transcode my media for Plex or quickly batch convert 10 or 12 movies real quickly for road trips for our ipads.

And, despite all of that, I feel like it's just bored with my mundane HT- and server-related tasks. It never breaks a sweat (remember -- this is a 5-year old computer). It's kind of ridiculous, really. I guess another analogy would be killing a flea with a bazooka. This new MP is going to have nuclear processing capability, and I think that other owners will have the same feeling -- that we're not doing its power justice with the mundane tasks we assign to it.
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post #96 of 99 Old 06-19-2013, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by NewOrlnsDukie View Post

As someone who has owned a Mac Pro for quite a while, and made it into an HTPC, I'm going to give my version of the car analogy -- if you get this thing for HTPC use, it's going to be like buying a Ferrari and driving it 50 yards a day.

Listen -- I love my Mac Pro. It has been very useful to me over the years. But let me just put it this way;

I have an 8-core MP from 'waaayy' back in '08, w/ 16 gigs of RAM.
And I've run W7 on it in Bootcamp,
and attached an aftermarket HD6970 for graphics and lossless audio,
and installed a BR drive,
and used it with a Ceton (Windows side) and multiple HD tuners on the mac side,
and been driving 3 1080p displays in a 7.2 theater,
and archived on the order of 1800 Blu-rays, HDDVD's, and DVD's on it over the yrs,
and I use it to transcode my media for Plex or quickly batch convert 10 or 12 movies real quickly for road trips for our ipads.

And, despite all of that, I feel like it's just bored with my mundane HT- and server-related tasks. It never breaks a sweat (remember -- this is a 5-year old computer). It's kind of ridiculous, really. I guess another analogy would be killing a flea with a bazooka. This new MP is going to have nuclear processing capability, and I think that other owners will have the same feeling -- that we're not doing its power justice with the mundane tasks we assign to it.

That's not so unusual among Ferrari owners. Usually they are not "daily commute" cars, they are showpieces—"ultimate" cars. A quick bit of Googling finds there is more than one 1980's-era Testarosa for sale right now, with only a few thousand miles on the odometer.

Your experience dispenses with some mistaken notions brought up in the comments—regarding lossless audio, running Windows, Blu-ray etc.—Do you think you will upgrade your machine to 2160P at some point?

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post #97 of 99 Old 06-19-2013, 02:36 PM
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That's not so unusual among Ferrari owners. Usually they are not "daily commute" cars, they are showpieces—"ultimate" cars. A quick bit of Googling finds there is more than one 1980's-era Testarosa for sale right now, with only a few thousand miles on the odometer.

Your experience dispenses with some mistaken notions brought up in the comments—regarding lossless audio, running Windows, Blu-ray etc.—Do you think you will upgrade your machine to 2160P at some point?

I fully acknowledge and agree with your Ferrari point. Hell, a not-inconsequential part of the reason I got my MP was so that I could fiddle with it and see what it could do in a home theater capacity. And it's been a lot of fun playing around with it.

That being said, it was too bulky for my main rack (which drives my main HT and master bedroom). So it's in my man room/ home office, which I call my 'experiment room.' Thankfully, that room had enough space for the 7.2 setup and the other screens. So it's a lot of fun. It then serves the media from my 24-bay FlexRAID box to the rest of the house, including a smaller HTPC and a PCH A-400 that are connected to the Onkyo 3010 in my rack (no idea why the 3010 doesn't get more love BTW -- the dual HDMI outputs being able to simultaneously, without HDMI headaches, supply 2 different rooms with different content has been a boon for us).

Will I get a new MP? Right now I say it's unlikely. Then again, ask me again in a few months after it comes out. I'm sure I'll give you a different answer.biggrin.gif As for updating my display resolution, it will undoubtedly happen with time, but I'm not going to be jumping on the 4k display train until it is more widely adopted and affordable. I'm not going to claim that I'm overly concerned with cost in general, but 4k displays need to mature.

As for the usual Mac FUD, most of us are accustomed to the moth-to-flame haters that invariably show their heads when anything Mac is discussed in the HT realm, and we've learned to ignore it. As someone who runs a 'mixed' household, with numerous macs, windows HTPC's, and media players, I still don't understand the vehemence with which folks choose to confuse being pro-something with being anti-everything-else.
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post #98 of 99 Old 06-20-2013, 09:47 AM
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As someone who runs a 'mixed' household, with numerous macs, windows HTPC's, and media players, I still don't understand the vehemence with which folks choose to confuse being pro-something with being anti-everything-else.

Hear hear!
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post #99 of 99 Old 06-28-2013, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
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The gist of a pricing analysis in CNET is the it will definitely cost more than the cheapest current 12-core Mac Pro—which sells for around $3,800. Due to the limitations placed on internal expansion, it will also likely not be possible configure one that costs $12,000.

I'm pegging it at $4999 for the basic model. Shame on CNET for not taking their own guess.
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A 12-core version of the existing model starts at $3,799, and can ramp up to more than $12,350 if you add in all the bells and whistles. But there might simply not be that much room for adjusting the hardware in this machine. - Source

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