Turtle Beach Headsets to be First Products with DTS Headphone:X - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 25 Old 06-24-2013, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Scott Wilkinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 1,074
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 118 Post(s)
Liked: 728

At the E3 gaming convention a couple of weeks ago, Turtle Beach announced that select models of its media headsets will be the first products to incorporate DTS Headphone:X, which effectively simulates the sound of up to 11 speakers arrayed around the listener using conventional 2-channel headphones. Turtle Beach headsets are designed primarily for gaming, an application ideally suited for Headphone:X, but they can also be used to listen to movies, the other killer app for this technology. The headsets are scheduled to be available later this year.

 

I have confirmed with DTS that any device with Headphone:X can accept any multichannel audio stream—as long as the device includes a decoder for that stream—and render it in real time. In that case, the simulated listening environment will be the DTS default. If the audio is pre-encoded in Headphone:X, as it is with the Man of Steel score for the Z+ app (see my thread about that here), content creators can simulate any listening environment they choose.

 

Turtle Beach is the first company out of the gate with a Headphone:X product, but it will certainly not be the last, and I look forward to finding it in all sorts of audio products in the future.


Scott Wilkinson
AVS Editor
Scott Wilkinson is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 25 Old 06-24-2013, 11:46 AM
Advanced Member
 
helvetica bold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 505
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 50
This is really cool, well if Astro doesn't do the same I found my new Xbox One headphones!
helvetica bold is offline  
post #3 of 25 Old 06-24-2013, 12:06 PM
Advanced Member
 
Kascnef82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 40
what about the playstation headset for ps3 and the one for ps4? Will that support dts headphone x? So far, the headset supports 7.1 virtual surround sound, and costs only $100 at best buy. I wonder if turtle beach will make one for the sony systems as well as nintendo...perhaps pc?
Kascnef82 is offline  
post #4 of 25 Old 06-24-2013, 12:10 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
bd2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,328
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Liked: 1352
Nice! Glad to see they didn't waste any time getting it into gaming applications. I'd really like to get my hands on one of these sets just to hear how it compares to Dolby Headphone, even though I've never been much of a fan of Turtle Beach headsets. With luck they'll release a standalone DSS3 decoder box that you can use with any headset.

Steam/PSN/Xbox Live: Darius510
bd2003 is online now  
post #5 of 25 Old 06-24-2013, 01:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Cravit8's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,309
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 191
Is the outcome any different than my headphones with a 10 foot cable going to my Yamah RX-A2000 AVR using the AVR's decoding and cinemaDSP?

I'm guessing this product is geared toward the person who doesn't have my setup.

After playing Battlefield 3 for 18 months, I can say from 100% experience, that 2-channel headphones are very good at the immersion with a multi-channel simulation, and DO help with hearing more of the subtle noises (hearing an opfor around the the corner reload a mag), but the reality is I discerned the directions of sounds much better using my 7.1 speaker setup and the difference is night & day. With my headphones (simulated surround) the aerial vehicles were always just "somewhere" above me.

The catch-22 is that quality chat is just impossible with a speaker setup so for multiplayer a simulated 3d headset with a great mic is the only way to game.
Cravit8 is offline  
post #6 of 25 Old 06-24-2013, 02:08 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
bd2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,328
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Liked: 1352
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cravit8 View Post

Is the outcome any different than my headphones with a 10 foot cable going to my Yamah RX-A2000 AVR using the AVR's decoding and cinemaDSP?

I'm guessing this product is geared toward the person who doesn't have my setup.

After playing Battlefield 3 for 18 months, I can say from 100% experience, that 2-channel headphones are very good at the immersion with a multi-channel simulation, and DO help with hearing more of the subtle noises (hearing an opfor around the the corner reload a mag), but the reality is I discerned the directions of sounds much better using my 7.1 speaker setup and the difference is night & day. With my headphones (simulated surround) the aerial vehicles were always just "somewhere" above me.

The catch-22 is that quality chat is just impossible with a speaker setup so for multiplayer a simulated 3d headset with a great mic is the only way to game.

Every virtual surround solution sounds slightly different. Some feature good positioning but degrade the sound quality significantly. The previous turtle beach solution definitely caused a huge degradation in clarity, even though the positioning cues were pretty good. Others like Dolby Headphone sound significantly more natural, but DH in particular adds a fair bit of reverb to simulate the reflections of a virtual theater room. The games themselves feature their own reverb to simulate the virtual environments in the game, so that doubling up on the reverb ends up degrading the sound in a different way. I'm not quite sure where DTSH:X falls on that spectrum.

The best solution is really what we had in the late 90s-early 2000s on PC, where rather than virtualizing speaker channels, dedicated 3D sound cards would apply HRTFs to every individual sound in the mix and simulate the reverb based on the actual geometry in the game. Discrete channels played no part in it, individual sounds in the mix could come from 10 feet above, right below you, even two inches from your ear...anywhere. When mixed together it was phenomenal and really convincing. It was amazing tech that had a bright future, but unfortunately fell by the wayside due to patent litigation—the small company with the best tech (Aureal) was sued out of existence by the larger company with the worst (Creative). They bought up all the tech of the company they helped destroy, then just sat on it and pushed their inferior tech for so long that the industry just basically gave up on the entire concept of object oriented 3D audio. So unfortunately, as good as DTSH:X may be, it's still just an inferior workaround because the real deal no longer exists.

Steam/PSN/Xbox Live: Darius510
bd2003 is online now  
post #7 of 25 Old 06-24-2013, 07:03 PM
KOF
Advanced Member
 
KOF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 721
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Every virtual surround solution sounds slightly different. Some feature good positioning but degrade the sound quality significantly. The previous turtle beach solution definitely caused a huge degradation in clarity, even though the positioning cues were pretty good. Others like Dolby Headphone sound significantly more natural, but DH in particular adds a fair bit of reverb to simulate the reflections of a virtual theater room. The games themselves feature their own reverb to simulate the virtual environments in the game, so that doubling up on the reverb ends up degrading the sound in a different way. I'm not quite sure where DTSH:X falls on that spectrum.

The best solution is really what we had in the late 90s-early 2000s on PC, where rather than virtualizing speaker channels, dedicated 3D sound cards would apply HRTFs to every individual sound in the mix and simulate the reverb based on the actual geometry in the game. Discrete channels played no part in it, individual sounds in the mix could come from 10 feet above, right below you, even two inches from your ear...anywhere. When mixed together it was phenomenal and really convincing. It was amazing tech that had a bright future, but unfortunately fell by the wayside due to patent litigation—the small company with the best tech (Aureal) was sued out of existence by the larger company with the worst (Creative). They bought up all the tech of the company they helped destroy, then just sat on it and pushed their inferior tech for so long that the industry just basically gave up on the entire concept of object oriented 3D audio. So unfortunately, as good as DTSH:X may be, it's still just an inferior workaround because the real deal no longer exists.

Couldn't have said better myself! Aureal's A3D with actual geometry based HRTF was heavenly on either speakers or headphones. Although vastly inferior to A3D, EAX and DirectSound3D with nVidia Soundstorm were decent solutions as they still retained HRTF. Now, we don't even get that. It's now channel based or nothing. frown.gif I was severely disappointed when Halo3 had far worse surround sound than Halo2. We were supposed to take a step forward with the Xbox 360, but instead we have taken a step backward. I really hope consoles and PCs embrace Dolby Atmos fast! That'll at least equal what we had back in the Soundstorm days.
KOF is offline  
post #8 of 25 Old 06-24-2013, 07:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Cravit8's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,309
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

...because the real deal no longer exists.
Thank you for taking the time to respond.

Wow, how many other tech/invention stories like this exist that affect me and I don't even know it. Almost depressing.
Cravit8 is offline  
post #9 of 25 Old 06-24-2013, 08:28 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
bd2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,328
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Liked: 1352
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cravit8 View Post

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

Wow, how many other tech/invention stories like this exist that affect me and I don't even know it. Almost depressing.

Yeah, it was an absolutely shameful situation. The worst part is that Aureal actually won the lawsuit! Aureal introduced the 3D audio concept, and Creative saw the writing on the wall. They slapped something inferior together and gamers pretty much rejected it. Their tech couldn't match up, so the gloves came off and they accused Aureal of infringing on them! The cost of the legal battle was so huge that Aureal went bankrupt and Creative bought their tech and patents for nearly nothing, just to squash any attempt at competition. And as expected, with no competitors they just hawked their inferior tech for years without really improving it, and pretty much everyone gave up on it. Once MS yanked support for 3D audio from Vista, they tried in vain to work around it, but no one was interested in dealing with it anymore.

Steam/PSN/Xbox Live: Darius510
bd2003 is online now  
post #10 of 25 Old 06-25-2013, 11:54 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kimeran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,202
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

With luck they'll release a standalone DSS3 decoder box that you can use with any headset.

BD, I like the way you think!

I have a pair of Steel Series headphones for when I am gaming on my computer and have the USB soundcard that came with it and toyed with it's settings a little bit. I have to say that I really hated it.

So I just use it in stereo...but with all these rave reviews of this headphone X I would be willing to give it a shot!

Trying to enjoy the simple things in life.

 

Steam: madbrayniak

Kimeran is offline  
post #11 of 25 Old 06-25-2013, 12:01 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
bd2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,328
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Liked: 1352
In case anyone is wondering what I'm talking about:

http://www.turtlebeach.com/product-detail/dolby-processor-accessories/ear-force-dss2/33

It's basically a standalone Dolby Digital decoder with virtual surround built in. IIRC the original DSS used Dolby Headphone and the DSS2 uses some unknown/proprietary tech (that is pretty meh IMO). I could definitely see them making a DTSH:X DSS3 in the future. If its as good as its cracked up to be, I'll prob pick one up....but I definitely need to hear it first.

Steam/PSN/Xbox Live: Darius510
bd2003 is online now  
post #12 of 25 Old 06-25-2013, 03:11 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
bd2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,328
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Liked: 1352
Here's something neat! Razer (a manufacturer of PC Peripherals) released a new virtual surround solution for PC today. Free until the end of the year.

http://www.razerzone.com/surround

It installs a new audio driver, that translates 7.1 into virtual surround. You can even customize the HRTFs to some degree, which definitely improves the effect. It works pretty well with games - there's a touch of reverb, but much less than with Dolby Headphone. There is no radical degradation of sound detail that you get with some virtual surround algorithms. Positioning cues are good, but the effect is as if the virtual channels are very close to your head, Dolby Headphone produces a more "distant" effect.

Definitely worth a shot for PC gamers, I suspect it also might work pretty well with movies.

Steam/PSN/Xbox Live: Darius510
bd2003 is online now  
post #13 of 25 Old 06-26-2013, 07:35 AM
Newbie
 
StephenWise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Anyone able to predict a price range for this? I've purchase the Earforce PX21 and the Earforce x12, and was not too thrilled with the sound quality, however, the combination of microphone monitoring of your own voice does make it worth it. I should try one of the more expensive ones to really understand the potential of Turtle Beach, I suppose.
StephenWise is offline  
post #14 of 25 Old 06-26-2013, 07:50 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
bd2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,328
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Liked: 1352
Quote:
Originally Posted by StephenWise View Post

Anyone able to predict a price range for this? I've purchase the Earforce PX21 and the Earforce x12, and was not too thrilled with the sound quality, however, the combination of microphone monitoring of your own voice does make it worth it. I should try one of the more expensive ones to really understand the potential of Turtle Beach, I suppose.

The more expensive ones aren't really that great sound quality wise either, they just pack more features. TB just doesn't seem concerned with SQ in general. I don't think any of these headsets will cost much more than the ones they're replacing. I think the XP400s were like $199?

Steam/PSN/Xbox Live: Darius510
bd2003 is online now  
post #15 of 25 Old 06-26-2013, 08:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Cravit8's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,309
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by StephenWise View Post

Anyone able to predict a price range for this? I've purchase the Earforce PX21 and the Earforce x12, and was not too thrilled with the sound quality, however, the combination of microphone monitoring of your own voice does make it worth it. I should try one of the more expensive ones to really understand the potential of Turtle Beach, I suppose.

You're new here I can see, you should qualify you're statements more, this is a tech forum. You failed to mention what sound the headsets are receiving.


I think my Earforce X12 sound quality is great or even exceptional, but I have them plugged into an AVR that does 7.1 simulated. That is completely different than the 2-channel mix that they are intended for and I assume how you are using them.
I got my headset for $36 brand new at Amazon. Knowing TB is not audiophile grade, why spend $140 to not have a wire going 9 feet from couch to the tv area?
Cravit8 is offline  
post #16 of 25 Old 06-26-2013, 08:49 AM
Newbie
 
StephenWise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cravit8 View Post

You're new here I can see, you should qualify you're statements more, this is a tech forum. You failed to mention what sound the headsets are receiving.


I think my Earforce X12 sound quality is great or even exceptional, but I have them plugged into an AVR that does 7.1 simulated. That is completely different than the 2-channel mix that they are intended for and I assume how you are using them.
I got my headset for $36 brand new at Amazon. Knowing TB is not audiophile grade, why spend $140 to not have a wire going 9 feet from couch to the tv area?

Ah, yes. I'll have to focus on explaining better and being more in depth. Thanks for the advice. Your assumption is correct. I will say, for gaming overall, these are great value for their lower price if you consider all of the features.
StephenWise is offline  
post #17 of 25 Old 11-17-2013, 07:43 AM
Member
 
CARTmen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 18

Any news about this? I'm starting to think this technology will never see daylight.

CARTmen is offline  
post #18 of 25 Old 11-17-2013, 06:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Cravit8's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,309
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 191
Maybe because it won't matter with AMD and its TrueAudio coming to PCs and consoles...?
Cravit8 is offline  
post #19 of 25 Old 11-17-2013, 07:31 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
bd2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,328
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Liked: 1352
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cravit8 View Post

Maybe because it won't matter with AMD and its TrueAudio coming to PCs and consoles...?

Maybe...but we won't see anything come of that for a long time either.

Steam/PSN/Xbox Live: Darius510
bd2003 is online now  
post #20 of 25 Old 11-18-2013, 01:55 AM
Member
 
CARTmen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 18

So you think that we'll not see this for a long time and nothing similar, right? 

CARTmen is offline  
post #21 of 25 Old 11-18-2013, 03:38 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
bd2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,328
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Liked: 1352
Quote:
Originally Posted by CARTmen View Post

So you think that we'll not see this for a long time and nothing similar, right? 

Well in it's current form it's not radically different from dolby headphone, so until they implement the advanced features like headphone calibration, room selection, head tracking etc....it's just another flavor of what we already have.

There's really no good reason we should need this on next gen consoles though...they should be able to do a better job internally than any off board processor.

Steam/PSN/Xbox Live: Darius510
bd2003 is online now  
post #22 of 25 Old 11-18-2013, 05:58 AM
Member
 
CARTmen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post


Well in it's current form it's not radically different from dolby headphone, so until they implement the advanced features like headphone calibration, room selection, head tracking etc....it's just another flavor of what we already have.

There's really no good reason we should need this on next gen consoles though...they should be able to do a better job internally than any off board processor.

I don't play much video games, I wanted them to see movies with great sound without making noise. What are the best headphones or technology to see a movie with surround? Something that gives you the impression of reality. 

CARTmen is offline  
post #23 of 25 Old 11-20-2013, 03:29 AM
Member
 
CARTmen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 18

nobody knows the best alternative to see a movie with surround headphones? 

CARTmen is offline  
post #24 of 25 Old 11-20-2013, 06:39 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Cravit8's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,309
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by CARTmen View Post

nobody knows the best alternative to see a movie with surround headphones? 

I have been quite pleased with a decent set of stereo headphones plugged into my AVR that virtualizes 7.1
Cravit8 is offline  
post #25 of 25 Old 11-20-2013, 07:35 AM
Member
 
CARTmen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cravit8 View Post


I have been quite pleased with a decent set of stereo headphones plugged into my AVR that virtualizes 7.1

what AVR do you have?

CARTmen is offline  
Reply Latest Industry News

Tags
Turtle Beach Systems

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off