Odemax Becomes First Service to Send UHD Movie Over the Internet to a Consumer - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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Latest Industry News > Odemax Becomes First Service to Send UHD Movie Over the Internet to a Consumer
Dan Hitchman's Avatar Dan Hitchman 09:18 AM 08-04-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

^^ Google wants to corner the market on everything they do. I don't see how google is any different than any other power hungry corporation. Less competition means more money to be made. Lets hope these power mongrels don't get their way and everything goes streaming, then we won't own anything. Quality is suffering, they can barely do 1080 let alone 4K and the audio stinks compared to DTS on BD.

It's not about DTS or Dolby, it's that BD has lossless audio and streaming does not.

I agree that single digit "1080p" encodes via streaming do not hold up to even BD, which is already compressed to within an inch of its life. They probably think everyone will be watching Lawrence of Arabia on 5" or smaller screens from now on thanks to smart phones. rolleyes.gif

Oh look, the people on the screen look like ants!

Steve Jobs: That's because they ARE ants!!! Bwahahahahahaha!!!

comfynumb's Avatar comfynumb 09:32 AM 08-04-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

It's not about DTS or Dolby, it's that BD has lossless audio and streaming does not.

I agree that single digit "1080p" encodes via streaming do not hold up to even BD, which is already compressed to within an inch of its life. They probably think everyone will be watching Lawrence of Arabia on 5" or smaller screens from now on thanks to smart phones. rolleyes.gif

Oh look, the people on the screen look like ants!

Steve Jobs: That's because they ARE ants!!! Bwahahahahahaha!!!



Yes and we won't notice the lossy audio either because everyone will be listening on their laptop or through earbuds. If they end up putting 4K on a disc I hope they don't compress it to within "an inch of it's life" like you said.
Justin O'Neill's Avatar Justin O'Neill 12:46 PM 08-04-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

According to the specs for the Redray, it can output a whole variety of resolutions and rates through user settings. You are saying that it first uprezzes to 4K and then you would need to down rez? That would be a no no around here except for JVC fan boys with their e shift projectors where everything in upscaled to 4K and then in essence down rezzed to two 2K frames that are shifted and overlapped to get back to uprezzed 4K. Actually it works quite well.

REDRAY and the encoder are beta so I am just reporting what is available right now. REDRAY does downscale, though. You can plug it into an HDTV and it automatically sends out a 1080 signal (looks incredible).
Phil Holland's Avatar Phil Holland 11:33 PM 08-04-2013
Yep. I'll back Justin here (also have a REDRAY). There isn't a consumer device that pumps out 4K or 1080p content that looks as good as this codec. I've seen it projected on 40' and 60' screens and have it playing back on 4K UHD and 1080p displays. It's pretty bloody impressive.

If you're curious there's three varieties of codec:

9MB per minute 68.8MB (90min = 6.2GB)
18MB per minute 134MB (90min = 12GB)
36MB per minute 265MB (90min = 23.9GB)

These are current data rates/specs for 4096x2160 projects.

I've been stress testing it for a few weeks now and it's really impressive on how things like grain are handled via the codec.

Red at the moment is looking to bring REDRAY and the codec into home delivery and eventually their own projectors, and this is indeed a DCP replacement/alternative in my mind. Hopefully in the future it can be opened up to different devices via either hardware or software licensing. We'll have to see what happens on that front.
pottscb's Avatar pottscb 02:40 PM 08-05-2013
I said this 8 months ago...if this technology encroaches on Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, Phillips, Intel's market share is will be gone overnight. Purchased and shelved to buy these companies so that 5 more years of milking the blu-ray goat may occur. Either that or their will be an FCC/Hollywood Studio awsuit against them for some bogus copyright infringement. Being non-competitve for 3 years while another company has the ONLY market saturation would cost Sony et. all billions, whereas a long-term format war/litigation battle only hundreds of millions...its only good business (and shows us that they give a $hit about what's best for the consumer). These days, no new technology can come from far left field to sweep the entire industry without a 5 year format war in which all sides lose, especially the consumer.

I think the only hope is that TimeWarner, DishHD, CoxHD or DirecTV-HD or AT&T buy the rights to at least the RED codec....that way they have the resources to wait it out when the litigation starts from the challenging parties.

Don't get me wrong, nothing will make me happier than to be 100% wrong...I would rather be wrong and enjoy 4K in home in 2-3 years rather than the alternative, but look at the industry track record: Blu-ray/HD-DVD, Plasma/LCD, SACD/DVD-A, DVD/laserdisc, VHS/ Betamax...

I, for one, wish Sony would outright lose one of the damn format wars...then, maybe they'd think twice before picking the next one...never mind that they usually have a second rate product released at a later date...if you throw enough money at the marketing department, you can shape your own reality AND write history to say yours was the ONLY technology to ever do what it does.
coolscan's Avatar coolscan 03:19 PM 08-05-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by pottscb View Post

I said this 8 months ago...if this technology encroaches on Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, Phillips, Intel's market share is will be gone overnight. Purchased and shelved to buy these companies so that 5 more years of milking the blu-ray goat may occur. Either that or their will be an FCC/Hollywood Studio awsuit against them for some bogus copyright infringement. Being non-competitve for 3 years while another company has the ONLY market saturation would cost Sony et. all billions, whereas a long-term format war/litigation battle only hundreds of millions...its only good business (and shows us that they give a $hit about what's best for the consumer). These days, no new technology can come from far left field to sweep the entire industry without a 5 year format war in which all sides lose, especially the consumer.

REDs main business is camera manufacturing and they have been in business for more than five years as a disruptive company and a thorn in the side for Sony.
Red has already sued Sony for stealing their technology. Sony has of course sued them back to rty to scare them.

Red is a private owned and funded company. The owner is camera geek and founder of Oakly.
Quote:
I think the only hope is that TimeWarner, DishHD, CoxHD or DirecTV-HD or AT&T buy the rights to at least the RED codec....that way they have the resources to wait it out when the litigation starts from the challenging parties.

Don't get me wrong, nothing will make me happier than to be 100% wrong...I would rather be wrong and enjoy 4K in home in 2-3 years rather than the alternative, but look at the industry track record: Blu-ray/HD-DVD, Plasma/LCD, SACD/DVD-A, DVD/laserdisc, VHS/ Betamax...

The RedRay codec is the basis for Reds camera technology, here used in RedRay for content delivery.

RedRay and Odemax is an alternative distribution and delivery system to what is used for cinema and home theatres.
I am not sure they base their success on to become the main adopted codec.
RedRay coded material can not be played on a computer.

If they succeed to become popular, it would be great for both customers and Red. If not, too bad, Red will continue with their main business aim of making the best digital motion cameras in the world.
Quote:
I, for one, wish Sony would outright lose one of the damn format wars...then, maybe they'd think twice before picking the next one...never mind that they usually have a second rate product released at a later date...if you throw enough money at the marketing department, you can shape your own reality AND write history to say yours was the ONLY technology to ever do what it does.

Time that somebody put Sony in their place and stop them from trying to control everything in the consumer electronics and broadcast market.

I would hope that some of Sony's competition, both Hollywood studios and CEMs, saw the possibilities here and put their weight behind Odemax and Red.

Would be a bonus for all consumers and manufacturers alike, and a speed-up of the development of new technology.

.
Ron Jones's Avatar Ron Jones 09:18 AM 08-06-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by pottscb View Post

....................
I, for one, wish Sony would outright lose one of the damn format wars...then, maybe they'd think twice before picking the next one...never mind that they usually have a second rate product released at a later date...if you throw enough money at the marketing department, you can shape your own reality AND write history to say yours was the ONLY technology to ever do what it does.

Sony did lose the first of the consumer video format wars - remember Betamax?
For DVDs, the standard for the physical media was that promoted by Toshiba and Warner Studio while Sony did get their data coding included.
Also for HD broadcasts Sony pushed the analog MUSE system that had seen limited use in Japan.
madshi's Avatar madshi 09:39 AM 08-06-2013
They lost with MiniDisc, too... biggrin.gif
johnovox's Avatar johnovox 10:30 AM 08-06-2013
While initial ODEMAX content appears to be limited to indy-type titles (which is not necessarily a bad thing), it is interesting that so many big-budget studio productions are now shot on RED cameras. If RED can assure the studios (let's leave Sony out for now) that they have sufficient content protection, perhaps you could see major productions shot on RED appearing on ODEMAX
vinnie97's Avatar vinnie97 11:10 AM 08-06-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

They lost with MiniDisc, too... biggrin.gif
That's because they priced it into the stratosphere. Could've been a contender to replace cassettes in the 90s otherwise.
coolscan's Avatar coolscan 03:02 PM 08-06-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnovox View Post

While initial ODEMAX content appears to be limited to indy-type titles (which is not necessarily a bad thing), it is interesting that so many big-budget studio productions are now shot on RED cameras. If RED can assure the studios (let's leave Sony out for now) that they have sufficient content protection, perhaps you could see major productions shot on RED appearing on ODEMAX
To make that completely clear; Odemax and RedRay is not a exclusive platform for content shot on RED Cameras.
It is a distribution platform for any 4K content, be it from digital 4K++ cameras or film scans.

Only Red and Sony makes fully capable digital motion cameras shooting content for highest quality 4K.

As for Red Cameras on big budget movies, just to mention some few; Prometheus, Jack the Giant Slayer, Oz the Great and Powerful, The Hobbit, The Great Gatsby, Pacific Rim, Elysium,
take a look at which movies are SHOT ON RED.

.
Dan Hitchman's Avatar Dan Hitchman 05:05 PM 08-06-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolscan View Post

REDs main business is camera manufacturing and they have been in business for more than five years as a disruptive company and a thorn in the side for Sony.
Red has already sued Sony for stealing their technology. Sony has of course sued them back to rty to scare them.

Red is a private owned and funded company. The owner is camera geek and founder of Oakly.
The RedRay codec is the basis for Reds camera technology, here used in RedRay for content delivery.

RedRay and Odemax is an alternative distribution and delivery system to what is used for cinema and home theatres.
I am not sure they base their success on to become the main adopted codec.
RedRay coded material can not be played on a computer.

If they succeed to become popular, it would be great for both customers and Red. If not, too bad, Red will continue with their main business aim of making the best digital motion cameras in the world.
Time that somebody put Sony in their place and stop them from trying to control everything in the consumer electronics and broadcast market.

I would hope that some of Sony's competition, both Hollywood studios and CEMs, saw the possibilities here and put their weight behind Odemax and Red.

Would be a bonus for all consumers and manufacturers alike, and a speed-up of the development of new technology.

.

If the Arri Alexa camera finally gets full 5k video capturing and recording... RED is going to have a problem. The Alexa is a darling among DP's right now, even at a paltry 2k. Then there's Panavision with its new 4k and 8k cameras. If they learned from their Genesis debacle (the images produced looked like crap and very pro-sumer)... again, lookout RED!

However, competition is great. RED will have to step up and really deliver to stay in business.
comfynumb's Avatar comfynumb 09:23 AM 08-07-2013
Sometimes I miss the times when everything with HT was much simpler. The one thing I hate is that they are trying to force us into streaming. Don't be fooled when you "buy" content it's just a long term rental. If they go out of business or change policies we'll lose them. I do stream but don't take my discs.
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