TiVo's New Roamio, Roamio Plus, and Roamio Pro DVRs Promise Premium Performance - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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Old 08-25-2013, 01:03 AM
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Not to mention removing the component output on the OTA model. That certainly lost me, considering that is what I use.
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Old 08-25-2013, 05:03 PM
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The problem I still see them having is cost: I pay $17/month to rent the DVR from FiOS, and while it's a terrible interface, TiVO wants $15/month plus another $4/month from Verizon for a CableCARD. When you factor in the price of the hardware itself, it's pretty obscene in a day-and-age of more folks cutting the cord and going streaming only. I'm sorry, but $15/month just for EPG in the states is ridiculous, considering I get it free with OTA channels and Windows Media Center if I were to roll my own. Then you lump in the $8/month for Hulu Plus/Netflix, with their large streaming libraries...

TiVO, you've really got to come down off that price tag. $15 is too steep now that fewer cable companies let you buy the CableCARD outright, and that "lifetime subscription" at $500? Hogwash, that'll let me build a brand-new, custom-specced HTPC from scratch. Then if I want to add a TiVO Mini, it's an additional $6/month for that little bugger (or $150 up front for lifetime). I did a cost analysis below, to show just how badly TiVo compares to the local FiOS offerings for equipment:

FiOS Pricing:
DVR - $16/month
Multi-Room DVR - $20/month
Set-Top Box - $12/month
CableCARD - $5/month

TiVo:
Roamio 4-tuner - $200 up front
Roamio 6-tuner - $400 up front
Service - $15/month + CableCARD
TiVo Mini - $150 up front
Mini Service - $6/month

TOTAL COST:
1 Room: $16/month FiOS, $20/month TiVo w/ CableCARD + $200 up front cost (No break-even date; lifetime break-even date of 63 months)
2 Room: $32/month FiOS, $26/month + $350 up front cost (Break-even of 59 months)
  • It's worth noting that at this point, we need a 2nd Multi-Room DVR from Verizon to record an additional 2 shows at once, and the prices reflect this. Around now, TiVo begins pulling ahead for TV-hungry households
3 Room: $52/month FiOS, $32/month + $500 up front cost (Break-even of 42 months)
4 Room: $64/month FiOS, $38/month + $650 up front cost (Break-even of 25 months)
  • We need to add a third Multi-Room DVR here. No contest at this point onward, but let's scale up to a Living Room, Theater, Parents, and two/three kids...
5 Room: $84/month FiOS, $44/month + $1000 up front cost ($400 Roamio, + 4 Minis; Break-even of 22 months)
6 Room: $96/month FiOS, $50/month + $1150 up front cost (Break-even of 25 months)

At the end of the day, a TiVo really only makes financial sense for four-room deployments or more, as the gear pays for itself (despite subscriptions) within two years, give or take a month or two, which is still a year longer than the parts warranty for these devices (the weak point being the hard disk, which WILL fail eventually). When the Hard Disk or DVR itself breaks from the cable company, you can swap it out free of charge (so long as it's not due to your error). The problem is that as more and more people switch to streaming, it'll be harder to justify the expense of a TiVo unit in all but the die hard TV households. Their main stumbling block is the 1-3 room user household, where it'll take about as long to pay off your TiVo gear as it will to pay off a car loan, and where we're (myself included) looking for a way to STOP paying $16/month to a cable company for such a terrible DVR, but simply can't justify the price premium the TiVo demands (the standard month-to-month plan has no break-even date for a single room!).

TiVo is on to something with the Mini subscriptions, but I'd like to see the subscription rate reduced to $10 or even $8/month. The Minis are all profit anyway, since they feed off the central DVR (which requires a more expensive subscription, even with multi-device discount), so why not do away with the multi-device discount and charge a straight $8/DVR, $6/Mini fee. Seems like it'd be a great way to rope in new customers.
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Old 08-26-2013, 07:00 AM
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Too bad DirecTv won't get together with Tivo to implement these for DirecTv instead of the currently limited function Tivo unit.

If Tivo would allow me to switch the lifetime subscription on my Series 3, I'd be all over one of these.
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Old 08-26-2013, 01:21 PM
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The new Roamio is supposed to be like Slingbox over the Internet (in a firmware update). It better or I will be pissed. I have a Tivo Premiere and a Tivo Stream currently and going to be selling it for cheap to a friend.
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Old 08-26-2013, 01:33 PM
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One thing it seems like you guys are forgetting though is that with Tivo you are not only paying for the hardware and the subscription but also for the fact that it's UI and features are much better than what you can get from your cable providers.

I can honestly say I miss having that great Tivo user interface now that I am with DirecTV. If/When I move it is enterirely possible that I may go back to cable just to have a Tivo box again.

I do agree that they are a little behind times as far as their business model but the UI is worth the slight extra cost in my eyes.

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Old 08-26-2013, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Tank_PD View Post

The whole point of buying a box is not to have pay a monthly fee. Why would I buy a TiVo? So I can pay $15 / month to TiVo instead of the cable company? This whole situation is similar to renting phones from the phone company back in the day. This is what the cable card was supposed to solve, but it is clearly failing. Even renting a cable card is a separate fee of a few bucks after you waste time convincing the cable company you want one. They are legally obligated to provide one, but these customers end up costing them money.

If my DVR is $20 from the cable company it's going to take 40 months to break even. My cable box is closer to $17.50. That's 80 months just to break even. No thanks.

I own one Tivo 3 box. I also have the lifetime service which was not cheap. What frustrates me the most is that I would like to upgrade to a newer TiVo and transfer the life time service and would have been happy to pay an additional 50 or so dollars but TiVo in their infinite wisdom (not), wont let people do this. When you get the lifetime subscription you are stuck with your box for the duration of its life.

While I get that TiVo makes their money off the subscriptions, it doesn't come to their mind that if I get a new box and transfer, then the old box would most likely go to someone else who would then either do monthly or lifetime subscription themselves. - Thus now they would have two sources. What TiVo will do is give a very small discount for a life time service on a second box. Candidly I would rather trade in my present box for the service and pay for a new ox.

I admit, I am a bit frustrated with this typical business scheme that appears to be cable companies, certain cell phone carriers, cell phone makers and more who like to hook and subjugate their users/fan base.
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Old 09-03-2013, 01:18 PM
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When people start crying about TiVo service fees I just laugh. Make your life simple and just admit you think TiVos cost too much and move on (there is nothing wrong with that at all, I think lots of things cost to much for me, I just don't go around complaining in forums about it). You sound like someone who owns a Chey Cruze complaining the cost of a Cadillac ATS is too high, because it cost more than the Cruze. Just rent your cable companies DVRs and be happy.

For those who want and are willing to pay for something more you have new Roamio DVRs. They are not cheap but the entry level 4 tuner Roamio with lifetime service at $600 or $700 (TiVo will also let you pay monthly but I certainly wouldn't) is in a completely different league than pretty much any DVR you can rent from a cable company, and the Plus & Pro versions are even more advance and are certainly designed to be used with TiVo Minis to provide a high end whole home DVR system.

You can also role your own high end DVR via media center however if you want a whole home system and don't already have and XBox on each TV I think you will find it is just as costly as a TiVo system. I have TiVos (Roamio, Premiere, TiVo HD, & Series 3) and a HTPC with tuners and like them both but the Tivos are certainly more appliance like.
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Old 09-23-2013, 07:40 PM
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I've been (and still am) a ReplayTV diehard but wanted to be able to record HD programs. All my ReplaysTV's are in storage now while we build a new home and live in a rental. Comcast offered me a free DVR for 6 months. After 6 weeks I was ready to throw it in the pool - total piece of crap - but we did enjoy the HD quality. So I picked up a Roamio to give it a try. $200+$500 for a lifetime activation it's not too bad considering it's like 4 DVR's. I like the unit but the UI is clunky - but MUCH better than the Comcast DVR. I miss some of the excellent features of the ReplayTV but this is close and will hopefully get better with future updates. Using a CableCard is great - no set top box or IR blaster to deal with. Comcast provided the multi-stream CableCard at no cost and the setup went fairly well considering that they usually do nothing right. The first person I spoke to (in the Phiippines) from Comcast activated the card but had to transfer me to someone else to activate all the channels. Of course, that person had to start all over again but by the end of the call the card was working.
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Old 09-23-2013, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by atmusky View Post

When people start crying about TiVo service fees I just laugh. Make your life simple and just admit you think TiVos cost too much and move on (there is nothing wrong with that at all, I think lots of things cost to much for me, I just don't go around complaining in forums about it). You sound like someone who owns a Chey Cruze complaining the cost of a Cadillac ATS is too high, because it cost more than the Cruze. Just rent your cable companies DVRs and be happy.

For those who want and are willing to pay for something more you have new Roamio DVRs. They are not cheap but the entry level 4 tuner Roamio with lifetime service at $600 or $700 (TiVo will also let you pay monthly but I certainly wouldn't) is in a completely different league than pretty much any DVR you can rent from a cable company, and the Plus & Pro versions are even more advance and are certainly designed to be used with TiVo Minis to provide a high end whole home DVR system.

You can also role your own high end DVR via media center however if you want a whole home system and don't already have and XBox on each TV I think you will find it is just as costly as a TiVo system. I have TiVos (Roamio, Premiere, TiVo HD, & Series 3) and a HTPC with tuners and like them both but the Tivos are certainly more appliance like.

My thoughts exactly. If someone wants to pay $15 - $20 per month for crappy equipment with even crappier interfaces, then more power to them. I currently have a Series 2 and a 2-tuner Premiere and I certainly won't go back. I'll probably pick-up a 4-tuner Roamio during one of the inevitable holiday sales.
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Old 09-24-2013, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by atmusky View Post

When people start crying about TiVo service fees I just laugh. Make your life simple and just admit you think TiVos cost too much and move on (there is nothing wrong with that at all, I think lots of things cost to much for me, I just don't go around complaining in forums about it). You sound like someone who owns a Chey Cruze complaining the cost of a Cadillac ATS is too high, because it cost more than the Cruze. Just rent your cable companies DVRs and be happy.
I don't think that's a valid comparison.

I've never felt that TiVo was that much better than some of the service provider DVRs out there. Sure, there are some awful cable DVRs out there that make you wonder what the provider was thinking. For many of them, though, it's like comparing a Ford Crown Victoria to a Lincoln Continental. Both have the same basic underpinnings, hardware and functions, but the Lincoln has passenger friendly touches that the Ford simply doesn't have. In other words, the hardware underneath is roughly the same - it's the interface that matters.

The problem is, that interface is increasingly become less valuable. In fact, DirecTV and Dish both have excellent DVRs that are right on par with TiVo with interfaces and recording ablities that make many who thought they'd want a TiVo think twice.

Having used Tivo and my D* DVR, I actually prefer the D* DVR because the interface, for me, is much better. Even if D* offered a TiVo that had exactly the same features as the standalone units, I wouldn't switch.

Sure, maybe if I had to deal with some of the crap "Chevy Cruze" DVRs that some cable outlets offer, I'd opt to pay for TiVo. Those are the ones where the DVR is more comparable to a VHS recorder than a real DVR. They aren't even in the same class at all.

However, there are many service issued DVRs that are close enough that paople simply don't want a box that becomes their problem if it goes bad. While my parents have had no issue getting a dead box replaced in the years they've had TiVo (while keeping the lifetime service attached to the replacement), they're stuck with what they have if they want to upgrade. With my D* DVR, the worst that happens is a sign a new contract with D* - and I'm not planning on going anywhere anytime soon.

In short, if TiVo offered a break on the lifetime service fee for upgrades, I'd pay to upgrade them in an instant. However, all they want to do is record and play back their shows without any fussing. Their cable company has a DVR that will do that just as well, minus some of the TiVo extras. If at any point they can no longer make their TiVo work with their cable service, they'll just switch to the cable company DVR.

The thing is, they would never use the extras the new units offer. They don't have tablets or smart phones to send video to. They don't care about streaming or interactive features. The fact is, their curent TiVo doesn't do any of that anyway. Right now, it's really no better than the cable company DVR, which would give them access to VOD content if a show fails to record.

My parents have simple needs that the TiVo meets beyond what they were getting with their VCR and the cable company DVR would be just as good for them. There are a lot of people like that. They just want some thing works well with whatever their source of TV is. The majority of cable DVRs work perfectly well with cable TV.

BTW: my parents actually do drive a Chevy Cruze and they're very happy with it. They have no desire to own a Cadillac.
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Old 09-24-2013, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by UGAd13 View Post

hmmm... looks like the Roamio is compatible with OTA (link). I've been wanting to ditch Comcast for sometime now and this may be a great option for me.

This may work: installing an attic mount OTA antenna + TiVo Roamio + Internet (have currently) + Netflix Streaming and HULU, and getting rid of Comcast HD-DVR service. Looks like I'd end up saving some money over the course of 12 months.

Thanks for posting the review! Gives me some homework to do...

+ and pro no ota support, just the basic version. give me a break TiVo.

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Old 09-24-2013, 08:23 PM
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+ and pro no ota support, just the basic version. give me a break TiVo.
Yeah, I'm not sure why more expensive units have fewer hardware features.

My opinion: a standalone unit should be able to....you know...stand alone.

Perhaps TiVo is too busy making pay TV provider deals to provide a device that allows people to not have pay TV.
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:52 AM
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Yeah, I'm not sure why more expensive units have fewer hardware features.

My opinion: a standalone unit should be able to....you know...stand alone.

Perhaps TiVo is too busy making pay TV provider deals to provide a device that allows people to not have pay TV.

Yep, I guess if one wants more they will have to stick with using a HTPC for OTA...
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