UHDTV Prices Slashed by Samsung and Sony - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 108 Old 09-03-2013, 06:42 PM
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Funny, I thought this was a thread on UHD, not fan noise on Panasonics.
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post #92 of 108 Old 09-03-2013, 07:05 PM
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Gee sorry we strayed a little off course.
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post #93 of 108 Old 09-03-2013, 09:57 PM
 
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One person interjected with that off-topic aside, the rest of the conversation naturally flowed (I tried to keep my response short).
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post #94 of 108 Old 09-04-2013, 07:08 AM
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There seems to be so little interest in UHDTV/4k it is almost understandable why the topic strays.
My experience is that you need a Display larger than 65" or larger to get the full benefit and impact.
The form factor alone may limit popularity.
I have gone from a Sony 42 A10 RPTV tabletop from 2005-2011 to a Sony 46" LED. There is no way my wife would let me put a 65" tV in our den.
She has agreed to a 55", but now that 4K is here.................
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post #95 of 108 Old 09-04-2013, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

"I'll go on the record and say that 4K skeptics are being outright silly"

You 4K worshippers are the ones being "silly". People are reporting what they see and the facts about screen sizes and distances. There was virtually no difference between 1080p and 4K on the Sony 55" 4K TV. And i was standing righ in FRONT of it. Moving back was even worse. I stood there watching this TV shaking my head thinking "they're seriously trying sell this as a premium over 1080p?". The 65" had more detail and the increase resolution was more apparent but i had to look for it and it was still nothing mind blowing.

The average contrast didn't help any either. There's plenty of other things to improve with PQ than more pixels. I don't know why would anyone bother buying a 4K TV right now.

* I agree. There is no obvious visual difference between 4K and 1080p to most people looking for a casual set.

4K LED is for the museums with other sony products.

4K OLED is the only option Consumers should be considering for future purchases. Less hardware required to make the panel look nice, such as local dimming or edge lit> they also come very thin out of the box with a plasma black levels and LED brightness and contrast.
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post #96 of 108 Old 09-04-2013, 09:06 PM
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I agree with the above post.

Will i see the difference between UHD and 1080P on a 55" panel ? - of course i will. I have exceptional eyesight but sit between 4-6ft from a 1080P plasma. Because i like the feeling of being immersed in my field of view when i feel like it.

But do i need to see the difference yet - no - because there is nothing to watch. And besides i could only afford (probably) no larger than 55" - if talking about OLED - which i am... Not in a month of Sundays will i waste my not so much money on a crap LED LCD. I am betting 85% of the time the 1080P KRP500 will look better than the LCD. Except for sitting a foot or two viewing digital stills.

If it's not 0MLL, or OLED, or i can't make out shadow details in a blackout room without washing out the rest of the images (or black but crushed) - or the back lights are "off" but the surrounding bits and bobs are "blooming"

Then I am not friggin interested mad.gif

Please oh please let there be lots of 'genuine' content (U-HD) to watch this time in three to four years from now. rolleyes.gif

Until then yummy 1080P mastered in 8K and 4K to tide me over - and 1080P gaming all beautifully detailed and clean and sharp mostly.

Thing's could be a lot worse wink.gif

My 2cents.
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post #97 of 108 Old 09-05-2013, 03:48 AM
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There is no OLED UHD as of yet. Although OLED will probably make it, I think there's a small chance it won't make it. Most people are happy with LED/LCD even if OLED and plasma panels look better. They are cheap and proven to last a long time IMO OLED has not proven itself. I'm sure the picture is gorgeous but how many are going to pay the kind of money they want for one of these?
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post #98 of 108 Old 09-05-2013, 04:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

There is no OLED UHD as of yet. Although OLED will probably make it, I think there's a small chance it won't make it. Most people are happy with LED/LCD even if OLED and plasma panels look better. They are cheap and proven to last a long time IMO OLED has not proven itself. I'm sure the picture is gorgeous but how many are going to pay the kind of money they want for one of these?

In all of yesterday's news, Samsung's UHD OLED "proof of concept" kind of got lost. The main thing to note, it's not even a production prototype.

Meanwhile, Sony showed that LCD can come in a curved form factor, making that "feature" of first-generation OLED HDTVs seem kind of silly, especially since the Sony is a 65" and the curve is more appropriate for living room and home theater seating distances. The point is that OLED can't be sold based on the curve anymore.

There was total silence from Sony and Panasonic on the topic of OLED. Instead, Panasonic came out with its own UDH LCD while Sony expanded its lineup of UHD, dropped prices and threw in the news about firmware-upgradeable HDMI as a bonus. As icing on the cake, Sony even showed UHD video playing at 60p via HDMI 1.4

I asked around for opinions on OLED yesterday and the main issue is still this: it is very difficult to build the panels, even at a 55" size. The price disparity is so huge, and LCD has such a giant head start in terms of screen size and resolution, its hard to see where the incentive lies for actively pursuing it. It would take one mighty optimistic executive to think OLED can knock LCD off its throne, when plasma has gotten so good and so cheap, yet it cannot compete against LCD.

One of the most famous TV reviewers put it to me this way—Samsung has enough money to do whatever it wants, including building and selling OLED HDTVs at a loss. It serves the purpose of making the company look innovative, but the rest of the industry cannot and will not follow that path, when the market is saying that 4K/UHD is driving sales of premium experiences—both at theaters and in the home.

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post #99 of 108 Old 09-05-2013, 04:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

In all of yesterday's news, Samsung's UHD OLED "proof of concept" kind of got lost.

Meanwhile, Sony showed that LCD can come in a curved form factor, making that "feature" of first-generation OLED HDTVs seem kind of silly, especially since the Sony is a 65" and the curve is more appropriate for living room and home theater seating distances. The point is that OLED can't be sold based on the curve anymore.

There was total silence from Sony and Panasonic on the topic of OLED. Instead, Panasonic came out with its own UDH LCD while Sony expanded its lineup of UHD, dropped prices and threw in the news about firmware-upgradeable HDMI as a bonus. As icing on the cake, Sony even showed UHD video playing at 60p via HDMI 1.4

I asked around for opinions on OLED yesterday and the main issue is still this: it is very difficult to build the panels, even at a 55" size. The price disparity is so huge, and LCD has such a giant head start in terms of screen size and resolution, its hard to see where the incentive lies for actively pursuing it. It would take one mighty optimistic executive to think OLED can knock LCD off its throne, when plasma has gotten so good and so cheap, yet it cannot compete against LCD.



I know there will be an OLED UHD panel, it's just a matter of time. But when you go to BB or hhgregg the whole TV section is lined up with LED panels. When you walk up to it that's all you can see. Scattered about are a few plasma panels but I really had to look for the Panny ST60. It's going to be hard to knock LED/LCD off of it's "price point" throne. I think I'm going with the Panny 60" version of the ST60, it was stunning for the money.
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post #100 of 108 Old 09-05-2013, 02:27 PM
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To get the LED/LCD people to upgrade, you have to remove the blooming, the off angle loss of colour, edgelit, blurring, improve the Blacks and get rid of Active 3D and Improve the Passive 3D.
To get the Plasma people to upgrade, you have to remove all the various noises their sets seem to make, get rid of the heat, keep the Blacks, and even improve on them, plus make them viewable in more places than the basement.
For both types, make it that you can't see yourself, nor your surroundings in the Front covering of the set.
Plus - make it that we only have to take out small loans to purchase!
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post #101 of 108 Old 09-06-2013, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post



I asked around for opinions on OLED yesterday and the main issue is still this: it is very difficult to build the panels, even at a 55" size. The price disparity is so huge, and LCD has such a giant head start in terms of screen size and resolution, its hard to see where the incentive lies for actively pursuing it. It would take one mighty optimistic executive to think OLED can knock LCD off its throne, when plasma has gotten so good and so cheap, yet it cannot compete against LCD.

Although I'm sure that's the case, there's no excuse, IMO, why every premium UHD LED display should not be a full-array, local dimming unit. C'mon guys, we've had them for years and if you're touting a UHD panel as 'premium', then at least make the guts 'premium'.
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post #102 of 108 Old 09-08-2013, 04:21 AM
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There is full array back lights and then there is full array backlit studio LED LCD monitors - with many many (many) times more LED's than even the best consumer LED's available.

Thing is these cost an arm and a leg and yet - off axis viewing is still as bad as the blooming "full array" consumer LED's.

We need OLED for U-HD.
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post #103 of 108 Old 09-08-2013, 07:53 AM
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^ The point I was trying to make is that current UHD displays are priced very high. Why not incorporate full-array local dimming as it was in the Sharp Elite? The Elite got exceptional results with minimal blooming with that configuration and coupled with UHD resolutions would be far better than the current crop of UHD displays and still be much cheaper than UHD OLED displays. Sure it would drive up the price relative to the current pricing, but let's be honest, people who are buying current UHD displays can probably fork over a little extra for what would be a far better panel with full array, local dimming.

I don't think there is any real need for a huge array of local dimming areas as you note in professional displays. I can't recall any Sharp Elite owner complaining of blooming as you see in some of the full array Sony displays.
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post #104 of 108 Old 09-09-2013, 10:55 AM
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Yeah good point.

That would have been the backlit LED i would have gone for if i wanted (or had to buy) LCD. Except i wouldn't have been able to buy in Scotland (or Europe) though.

I wonder if Sharp/Elite (Pioneer engineers) decided to skip a second generation ELITE LCD to wait for a U-HD version instead which would be a 2nd gen obviously but with higher resolution.

But my way of thinking is unless someone has to have the latest just because they can then why not. But buying now means by the time we actually do get any regular and "proper" UHD... The screen will be older and technically inferior by the time that happens.

Money no object i guess that wouldn't be an issue but that isn't me lol smile.gif
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post #105 of 108 Old 09-09-2013, 06:38 PM
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There are still rumors that Sharp is planning a 2nd gen Elite with UHD rez. But I'll believe it when I see it. wink.gif
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post #106 of 108 Old 09-18-2013, 09:45 AM
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2nd gen Elite OLED?
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post #107 of 108 Old 09-18-2013, 09:45 AM
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2nd gen Elite OLED?
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post #108 of 108 Old 09-20-2013, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Orbitron View Post

2nd gen Elite OLED?
I'd like to see OLED achieve a motion resolution of 2ms MPRT or less. Currently, all large-format OLED is prone to motion blur that becomes quite noticeable during gaming and computer use.

Thanks,
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BlurBusters Blog -- Eliminating Motion Blur by 90%+ on LCD for games and computers

Rooting for upcoming low-persistence rolling-scan OLEDs too!

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