Panasonic Announces TC-L65W600, World's First UHDTV with HDMI 2.0 and DisplayPort 1.2 - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post

But ultimately 4K does so much more than 3D, and is so much more useful to the average person, that it won't wind up being an unused feature the way 3D is. Once Netflix is streaming UHD, that's what people with UHDTVs will watch be default.

As for the price cuts—Seiki and TCL both showed that UHD/4K itself is not expensive to produce, the real trick is building a quality LED-based LCD TV. However the prices on the Seiki and TCL units were low enough to create price pressure on the big guys.

Netflix can't even stream 1080p without compression problems up the yin-yang, so I find their UHD claims dubious at best. These Seiki units are junk. You get an overall better calibrated picture on a budget 1080p flat panel. Pixel count is not the only requirement for excellent image quality. I doubt the big guys are even batting an eye at these knockoff Chinese wannabes.

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post #32 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 10:50 AM
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Netflix can't even stream 1080p without compression problems up the yin-yang, so I find their UHD claims dubious at best. These Seiki units are junk. You get an overall better calibrated picture on a budget 1080p flat panel. Pixel count is not the only requirement for excellent image quality. I doubt the big guys are even batting an eye at these guys.

If the issue is artifacts, Netflix will never "get it right" because compression will always compromise image quality, at any resolution. But more bandwidth and better compression most certainly do help, so expect an improvement in overall picture quality from UHD on Netflix. It will probably look like "proper" 1080p.

Yes, Seiki is "junk" but the pricing pressure it created is very real. Sony is selling $500 HDTVs at Wal-Mart, right next to HiSense and Vizio. All of the manufacturers are sensitive to disruptive products and pricing.

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post #33 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 10:56 AM
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The news said that Panasonic's and new Toshiba's 4K 55", 65" models released on Q3 2013 are installed with Innolux S-MVA or PSA 4K 3D panel -- not passive-3D in general.

Every TV vendor's 58" model panel comes from Innolux because no other vendor produces panel with this particular size. While Toshiba's current 4K 84" / 55" is passive-3D LG S-IPS panel, its 4K 58" one is active-3D from Innolux.

About the Sekai or TCL cheap 4K 50" one, I guess it is either Innolux PSA or CSOT(China Star Optoelectronics Technology)

The Sony KDL-55X9005A (european model) uses CSOT 4K 55" 3D panel while XBR-55X900A and other region's KDL-55X9000A should be installed with AUO 4K passive-3D one.
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post #34 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 11:00 AM
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all i've taken away from some of the latest discussion is that ubiquity is finally ubiquitous...
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post #35 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post

If the issue is artifacts, Netflix will never "get it right" because compression will always compromise image quality, at any resolution. But more bandwidth and better compression most certainly do help, so expect an improvement in overall picture quality from UHD on Netflix. It will probably look like "proper" 1080p.

Yes, Seiki is "junk" but the pricing pressure it created is very real. Sony is selling $500 HDTVs at Wal-Mart, right next to HiSense and Vizio. All of the manufacturers are sensitive to disruptive products and pricing.

Dish hasn't done HD right. DirecTV hasn't done HD right. Cable hasn't done HD right. OTA stations haven't done HD right. And basic HD has been around for years. They don't think the "average" Joe-schmo cares, so neither do they. It costs more to broadcast or stream at the very best quality for both audio and video, so they don't bother and instead down-rez and compress the hell out of their signals. Unless they are hit with some epiphany where they now only want the best for their customers, I doubt they'll change for UHD.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #36 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 11:52 AM
 
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If all that remains in the flat panel universe in the future are costly UHD LCD-LEDs without full-array backlighting, it looks like my participation in the home cinema hobby will be taking a nosedive. The bright side: I'll have more spending money and less debt.
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post #37 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 11:53 AM
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Geoffrey Morrison at C|Net has an interesting take on 4K technology: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57491766-221/why-4k-tvs-are-stupid-still/
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post #38 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 12:40 PM
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any word on when vizio will make 4k tvs? Seems they're focusing on their current line...
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post #39 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 01:23 PM
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There's two legitimate 55" panels out on the market. I think it's fair to say that they finally rounded the corner.

Where can I buy them?
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post #40 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 01:26 PM
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Where can I buy them?

Video only around my parts offers the OLED but it is an order item, they don't have them in the store yet.
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post #41 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 01:31 PM
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Where can I buy them?

I saw one at best buy a few weeks ago. Aside from the curve, it was easily the best looking display I've ever seen. Imagine blacks better than plasma with the brightness and lack of reflectivity of a matte LCD.

If I had $15K burning a hole in my pocket I would have taken it home with me.

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post #42 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 01:42 PM
 
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post #43 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 03:58 PM
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OLEDs are what is really getting me excited. 4K panels are exciting too cause of what they can do for passive 3D. No more resolution loss like the passive 3D on current 1080 panels. Prices will drop just like they always do with new tech. I will not buy a new set until OLED has became affordable cause im happy with my 9G Kuro in my living room for now.

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post #44 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 04:55 PM
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Aww Panny, this makes me sad. Can you not make a 4K Plasma? I hate LCD and was hoping they'd get into the 4K market with an OLED if not plasma.

I'd hate to see Panasonic abandon the plasma since they are clearly the best at it, and I own a Samsung! Have owned a Panasonic Plasma in the past though and loved it.

Hows does this mean Panasonic has abandoned plasma??

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post #45 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 04:58 PM
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3D has really turned out to fizzle, which is unfortunate, as I really like 3D movies at home. I've purchased about 10 3D versions of movies over the past few years, but only a few really stand out like Hugo, Tron Legacy, Avatar, and Prometheus.

I disagree, the 3D is a "fizzle". Especially with WIZARD OF OZ getting a 3D IMAX showing in advance of the home vid release. HOUSE OF WAX is coming. And Fox is even trying to convert PREDATOR. (I, ROBOT did well enough for Fox to continue with that.) Therev are others I'd add to your list, including LIFE OF PI, CREATURE FROM BLACK LAGOON, and DREDD, among others.

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post #46 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 05:17 PM
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Hows does this mean Panasonic has abandoned plasma??

I remember Panasonic saying in a press release a while back that they have stopped the R&D department for Plasmas after the 2013 sets were released. I am not sure if this means no more plasmas but without a Research and Development department you cant really advance the tech, but just keep putting out the same sets.

I could be totally wrong but it seems like Panasonic has decided to put their money and resources into oled and 4k TV's.
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post #47 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 05:26 PM
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Obviously it's going to be a while (I read a quote but can't seem to find it now, saying they estimate 1-2 years before they are up for sale), but Samsung just demoed a 4k OLED prototype at IFA.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-35205_7-57601448-10391741/samsung-touts-4k-oled-tv-98-inch-behemoth/
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post #48 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 05:31 PM
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Obviously it's going to be a while (I read a quote but can't seem to find it now, saying they estimate 1-2 years before they are up for sale), but Samsung just demoed a 4k OLED prototype at IFA.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-35205_7-57601448-10391741/samsung-touts-4k-oled-tv-98-inch-behemoth/

Two OLED years is how many real years though? I think the issue with OLED is fabricating those larger panels that would make UHD worthwhile. I already have a 1080p OLED screen in my pocket, clearly OLED works fine at smaller sizes.

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post #49 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 05:50 PM
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Two OLED years is how many real years though? I think the issue with OLED is fabricating those larger panels that would make UHD worthwhile. I already have a 1080p OLED screen in my pocket, clearly OLED works fine at smaller sizes.

True, and the quote was from someone at Samsung so are hardly unbiased about it, and when it does come out it'll be out of my price range. Still, I'm glad it's in development.
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post #50 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 06:48 PM
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Complete ubiquity within just a few years is more likely.

Do you think that 4K will take as long as 1080p to become the de facto standard? What was that? 4-5 years? Or will it roll out faster?

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post #51 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 07:17 PM
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Do you think that 4K will take as long as 1080p to become the de facto standard? What was that? 4-5 years? Or will it roll out faster?

I'm thinking about the same. Doesn't matter if there's any 4K content, people are just going to buy them because the number is bigger, resolution is still the single number that determines how good a TV is to the average joe.

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post #52 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 07:43 PM
 
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More like ignorant joe.
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post #53 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 08:01 PM
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More like ignorant joe.

Perhaps, but they're subsidizing us image quality nerds, so I can't get too mad about it.

It's pretty much a factual statement though. All other things equal, higher resolution is better.

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post #54 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 10:22 PM
 
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Yea, but suffice to say, the rest is not equivalent.
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post #55 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 11:02 PM
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Yea, but suffice to say, the rest is not equivalent.

 

No way to know that for sure. UHD isn't really high on my list in terms of what I want out of my next TV, but it's not the lowest either. If I have to choose between UHD and a bunch of useless features like Smart TV or a panel so thin I can't even see it from the side...I'm totally taking UHD. There's enough of a difference for me to care even if it's not enough to run out and buy one ASAP.

 

It's much harder to market deeper blacks or more accurate color though, I respect the need for them to come out with something they can actually sell. Likewise if it takes a curved panels to sell a few OLEDs and satiate some super rich dude's vanity, more power to them. The videophiles willing to drop $5K on a flat 55" panel are next in line.


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post #56 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 11:16 PM
 
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No way to know for sure with every UHD model, but the Value Electronics shootout back in May featuring the latest round of Plasmas alongside the Sony 4K panel showed a resounding victory for the plasmas in everything but the resolution. Other UHD LCD-LEDs based on similar tech (backlit/edgelit) should show similar results. Resolution when it comes to perception of PQ actually places below contrast ratio, color saturation, and color accuracy, though we have just about maxed out the latter two in the current confined colorspace. Still, in no way could I adopt UHD but simultaneously suffer a downgrade in CR afforded by the ZT60. A UHD TV that was built without a smart interface would actually surprise me, so I'm not sure you'll be saddled with the above hypothetical compromise. smile.gif

I am just not convinced the gimmick of a curved screen will capture the attention of many more buyers. The only benefit is that it stands out in a showroom, so here's to hoping that's enough to get to the second phase (larger screen OLEDs with 4k resolution). The yields still seem to be a problem...
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post #57 of 59 Old 09-06-2013, 05:55 AM
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Only 1 in stock.

So, when are they finally going to make enough for OLED to be considered a real contender? I mean Sony had an OLED TV available for sale several years ago. It was small and expensive, but still.

I hope OLED takes off, but I still haven't seen anything to make me believe they'll ever be affordable and available in larger sizes. If they have to manufacture several units for every unit that's saleable, the price will never come down to be competitive.
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post #58 of 59 Old 09-06-2013, 06:53 AM
 
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Plasmas somehow became price competitive. Obviously different conditions exist today with a fledgling worldwide economy...but never say never. Here's to a $9k 65" OLED in 2014.
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post #59 of 59 Old 09-06-2013, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
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any word on when vizio will make 4k tvs? Seems they're focusing on their current line...

They announced a 70" set to be released during 2013 but no rumblings about it afterwards.
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