Panasonic Announces TC-L65W600, World's First UHDTV with HDMI 2.0 and DisplayPort 1.2 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 59 Old 09-04-2013, 05:11 PM - Thread Starter
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The UHDTV marketplace is heating up big time with Panasonic announcing its first entry, the 65-inch TC-L65W600 LED-LCD flat panel. Most importantly, this is the world's first UHDTV with HDMI 2.0 input capability, allowing it to accept a UHD signal at 60 progressive frames per second—in other words, it can accept 2160p/60. Also newsworthy is the inclusion of DisplayPort 1.2 input capability, which PC gamers will welcome with open arms.

 

 

Notice I said HDMI 2.0 and DisplayPort 2.1 "input capability." According to the press release, "The next-generation 4K 60p input, designed based on HDMI 2.0 and Display Port 1.2a specifications, helps assure compatibility with future 4K-players, set-top boxes and next-generation gaming consoles." Hmmm, I'm not sure exactly what that means. Does the TV have HDMI and DisplayPort ports or some sort of hybrid input that can accept both types of connectors? These connectors are similar but not identical, so if it's a hybrid, it would need an adaptor for one or the other (or both). I've asked Panasonic to clarify, and I'll update this post when I hear back on this point.

 

Meanwhile, there's plenty of other info to share. The WT600 is THX 4K-certified, which means it meets certain requirements in terms of color and other parameters, though no one knows if those parameters will change as UHD specifications are developed. For example, will UHD end up using a wider color gamut than Rec.709?

 

The new 4K Fine Remaster Engine upscales all lower-resolution content to UHD, which is essential in any UHDTV. And Intelligent Frame Creation improves motion detail by synthesizing new frames between the incoming frames, even with UHD sources, up to 120 frames per second, analyzing scenes with movement in a variety of direction and optimizing each object independently.

 

If you prefer not to engage frame interpolation because of the dreaded "soap-opera effect," the WT600 offers something called 2400 Back Light Scanning, which is also designed to improve motion sharpness. And a feature called Local Dimming Pro "enhances overall image quality by improving control of details in both darker and brighter areas." Both of these features seem to imply that the set uses full-array LED backlighting with local dimming, but I have yet to confirm this. Other manufacturers have used similar names for "pseudo local dimming" with LED edgelighting, so we'll have to wait and see what Panasonic has actually implemented in this set.

 

As you might expect, the WT600 features ISFccc calibration modes, and it's compatible with Spectracal's CalMan software. In addition, the Panasonic TV Remote 2 app for iOS and Android devices lets you set detailed curves for gamma, white point, and color saturation.

 

Of course, the WT600 provides WiFi connectivity, which lets it access content on the Internet or local devices on your home network via DLNA streaming. Among the many apps available on the TV is Skype video calling with an automatic pop-up webcam and a 4K web browser, which is best used with an optional USB or Bluetooth keyboard. You can also connect a USB device or SD card and play anything stored there, including UHD content.

 

So when will this bad boy be available? Mid-October. And how much will it cost? $6000. That's right in line with the 65" UHDTV offerings from Samsung and Sony, which will offer HDMI 2.0 input capability via hardware and/or firmware update. But the WT600 will have that capability from the get-go, along with DisplayPort 1.2, making it a mighty attractive alternative.

 

For more on the TC-L65WT600, visit Panasonic's web page about it. To celebrate the launch of Panasonic's Google+ page, visitors will be given a chance to win one of the new sets, though no details have been posted there as of this writing.

 

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post #2 of 59 Old 09-04-2013, 05:22 PM
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panasonic isn't exactly my first choice if I was looking for a good LCD - and that's without actually debating whether a good LCD actually exists wink.gif

Good article, thanks for bringing up all the questions!
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post #3 of 59 Old 09-04-2013, 05:45 PM
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Aww Panny, this makes me sad. Can you not make a 4K Plasma? I hate LCD and was hoping they'd get into the 4K market with an OLED if not plasma.

I'd hate to see Panasonic abandon the plasma since they are clearly the best at it, and I own a Samsung! Have owned a Panasonic Plasma in the past though and loved it.
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post #4 of 59 Old 09-04-2013, 06:08 PM
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Though I'm more partial to Panny plasmas, the one thing I found about Panasonic LCD flat screens were their viewing angles: they had a much wider sweet spot for viewing angles, holding contrast, than most (if not all) other LCDs I viewed. I don't know if that will be the case with this UHD model.
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post #5 of 59 Old 09-04-2013, 06:09 PM
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Any talks about what kind of 3D it will do? I'm assuming passive since that's what their other LED's do. Great article.
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post #6 of 59 Old 09-04-2013, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gillietalls View Post

Any talks about what kind of 3D it will do? I'm assuming passive since that's what their other LED's do. Great article.

Actually Sony X850 UHD TV out October 4, 2013 has HDMI 2.0 with active 3D and the 55" costs $3,500.
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post #7 of 59 Old 09-04-2013, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Gillietalls View Post

Any talks about what kind of 3D it will do? I'm assuming passive since that's what their other LED's do. Great article.
3D has really turned out to fizzle, which is unfortunate, as I really like 3D movies at home. I've purchased about 10 3D versions of movies over the past few years, but only a few really stand out like Hugo, Tron Legacy, Avatar, and Prometheus.

It's cool if the set does good 3D, but it would be really cool if it were glasses free! smile.gif
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post #8 of 59 Old 09-04-2013, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Though I'm more partial to Panny plasmas, the one thing I found about Panasonic LCD flat screens were their viewing angles: they had a much wider sweet spot for viewing angles, holding contrast, than most (if not all) other LCDs I viewed. I don't know if that will be the case with this UHD model.

probably because they use IPS panels, which have the best viewing angles... and the worst black levels frown.gif

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post #9 of 59 Old 09-04-2013, 09:12 PM
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Looking forward to buying my entire movie library for the 3rd time on 4K-ray
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post #10 of 59 Old 09-04-2013, 09:37 PM
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Looking forward to buying my entire movie library for the 3rd time on 4K-ray

Don't forget the Red-Ray!
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post #11 of 59 Old 09-04-2013, 09:54 PM
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I watched the live stream and the most interesting thing i got out of it - Panasonic said NHK plans to start broadcasting in 8K in 2020!
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post #12 of 59 Old 09-04-2013, 09:54 PM
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I assume we will see 4K to 8K upconversion as we get closer.
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post #13 of 59 Old 09-04-2013, 10:19 PM
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Panasonic?! 4K?! Pl...oh.....LCD. Well, nothing to see here.

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post #14 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 05:02 AM
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I'm really tempted to buy an HDMI 2.0 display, since HDMI 1.4 is currently the only thing holding me back from gaming at 1080p/60/3D on my couch. But then again, I hardly need a UHD display for that, I'd much rather have a 1080p OLED. Affordable (and flat!) OLED are just around the corner....

Still good news that HDMI is finally back up to speed. And 32 discrete audio channels? Very nice.

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post #15 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 05:11 AM
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OLED are just around the corner....

OLED has been just around the corner for the past couple of years.
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I've learned not to judge a TV until I see it myself, but, I do wish Panny would make 4K plasma's. I guess they're tired of losing money on them.
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post #17 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 05:22 AM
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OLED has been just around the corner for the past couple of years.

There's two legitimate 55" panels out on the market. I think it's fair to say that they finally rounded the corner.

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post #18 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 05:35 AM
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I believe that the TV manufacturers are thinking UHDTV/4K sets will be the next big profit maker for them, the same thing they thought about 3D. Unless prices come way down and its shown that there really is a significant improvement in picture quality over today's best plasma TV's, I think these sets will occupy a small, niche market for quite some time to come.
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post #19 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 06:08 AM
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this television: absolutely perfect for the "more money than sense" crowd. I would be willing to bet my next paycheck that their own $2700 65" VT will outperform it in nearly every meaningful regard at 10 feet.

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post #20 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 06:55 AM
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I've never been impressed with panasonics LCD line of tv's but if this is close to their plasma a in performance it might be something that intrests me....only time will tell smile.gif
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post #21 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gillietalls View Post

Any talks about what kind of 3D it will do? I'm assuming passive since that's what their other LED's do. Great article.

Their spec sheet at http://shop.panasonic.com/docs/spec-sheet/2013/televisions/TC-L65WT600_spec-sheet.pdf claims Active 3D

3D Type Y (Active)
3D 24p Cinema Smoother Y
2D-3D Conversion Y
Dedicated 3D Eyewear 2 included

Nothing in this posting/signature really means anything in the long run.
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post #22 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by LDBetaGuy View Post

I believe that the TV manufacturers are thinking UHDTV/4K sets will be the next big profit maker for them, the same thing they thought about 3D. Unless prices come way down and its shown that there really is a significant improvement in picture quality over today's best plasma TV's, I think these sets will occupy a small, niche market for quite some time to come.

Complete ubiquity within just a few years is more likely.

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post #23 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by BAMABLUHD View Post

3D has really turned out to fizzle, which is unfortunate, as I really like 3D movies at home. I've purchased about 10 3D versions of movies over the past few years, but only a few really stand out like Hugo, Tron Legacy, Avatar, and Prometheus.

It's cool if the set does good 3D, but it would be really cool if it were glasses free! smile.gif

I too like 3D movies at home smile.gif I have ~30 3D movies/Imax/PS3 Games ...

Everyone loves the 3D effect - Most people >>> HATE <<< the active glasses. Universal glasses free 3D would cause the 3D home entertainment to take off.

Perhaps, the next or generation after next UHDTV sets will be glasses free. (Hopefully, 3D media will still be available by then.)

Nothing in this posting/signature really means anything in the long run.
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post #24 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 08:50 AM
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Complete ubiquity within just a few years is more likely.


I heard this about 3D just a few years ago. The only way they will arrive at complete ubuquity in just a few years is if the CEs stop making 1080p sets altogether. 4K is just another way to try to squeeze more money from the masses, on in this case, maybe the well heeled. The demand for HD sets is down due to saturation of the market and the economic downturn. Didn't work for 3D and won't work for 4K. IMHO. How long will it be until they claim that you just have to have 8k?
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post #25 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 08:53 AM
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I heard this about 3D just a few years ago. The only way they will arrive at complete ubuquity in just a few years is if the CEs stop making 1080p sets altogether. 4K is just another way to try to squeeze more money from from the masses. The demand for HD sets is down due to saturation of the market and the economic downturn. Didn't work for 3D and won't work for 4K. IMHO. How long will it be until they claim that you just have to have 8k?

And 3D capability is now ubiquitous. You can't buy a decent TV today that does not feature 3D, and that's going to be the same for 4K/UHD. 2K content still plays fine on 4K panels, so there is no issue there—hence the ubiquity comment.

Based on what I'm seeing, 4K is definitely about to take off big time. Phones, tablets, camcorders and TVs will all feature it. 1080p sets will be relegated to the position 720p currently holds—the realm of the cheap plasma panel, and of small TVs everywhere.

3D and 4K are too different from each other to lump them together—about the only thing they have in common is that 4K also makes full HD 1080p passive and glasses-free 3D possible.

8K is just another notch on the resolution ladder. Anybody who's a fan of projection will want cheap 4K and also 8K. Same goes for computer users—I'll take as big a screen as I can get, with as many pixels as I can get.

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post #26 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 08:58 AM
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Mark, we will have to agree to disagree. Sony and Samsung are already slashing their prices on brand new tech at real screen sizes. For me, this says it all. If 4K succeeds like 3D, well......... that isn't saying much.
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Mark, we will have to agree to disagree. Sony and Samsung are already slashing their prices on brand new tech at real screen sizes. For me, this says it all. If 4K succeeds like 3D, well......... that isn't saying much.

But ultimately 4K does so much more than 3D, and is so much more useful to the average person, that it won't wind up being an unused feature the way 3D is. Once Netflix is streaming UHD, that's what people with UHDTVs will watch be default.

As for the price cuts—Seiki and TCL both showed that UHD/4K itself is not expensive to produce, the real trick is building a quality LED-based LCD TV. However the prices on the Seiki and TCL units were low enough to create price pressure on the big guys.

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post #28 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 09:22 AM
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Streaming with current bandwidth and caps? Not any time soon, at least in any significant numbers. I have seen 4K. Under 100 inches, not interested at all. I see it as great for projectors but not flat screens or even worse, the current fixation on curved screens by companies desperate to increase the bottom line, just like 4K IMHO. I think I have said all I can on this subject! We will just have to disagree.
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post #29 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 09:23 AM
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I'm sure a few years from now there will be a contingent on AVS that laments that they can no longer buy a quality TV that doesn't have that useless UHD resolution that no one can see anyway.

Anyway, I wonder what's even going to set TVs apart in a few years once OLED is mainstream. Black level, motion resolution and 3D crosstalk are solved problems. They're super thin and very bright. If 1080p isn't enough resolution for everyone, 4K certainly will be....what's left to distinguish them from each other?

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post #30 of 59 Old 09-05-2013, 09:36 AM
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I'm sure a few years from now there will be a contingent on AVS that laments that they can no longer buy a quality TV that doesn't have that useless UHD resolution that no one can see anyway.

Anyway, I wonder what's even going to set TVs apart in a few years once OLED is mainstream. Black level, motion resolution and 3D crosstalk are solved problems. They're super thin and very bright. If 1080p isn't enough resolution for everyone, 4K certainly will be....what's left to distinguish them from each other?

I'd like to see a technology whereby sound emanates from the screen. The ultimate center channel.

OLED ubiquity is not guaranteed, as blissful as it sounds it could be a lot like achieving controlled fusion reactions, space elevators, or affordable quantum computing—technically feasible, but not economical. One great real-world example of technology that works but cannot overcome the cost factor is supersonic transportation—and that was once thought to be the future of all flight.

OLED is assuredly here to stay for small screen sizes, and it's quite clear that pixel density is not an issue at those smaller sizes. The question is whether it will even be possible to build a 84" OLED with any degree of reliability. It's also likely that the performance of LCD panels will continue to improve as prices drop and screen sizes go up. OLED going mainstream is by no means guaranteed, UHD OLED at meaningful sizes is years away—if it ever catches on—based on the current (lack of) news on the topic.

Then there's always the possibility that some other technology will come along, that makes all this talk irrelevant. Maybe cheap ultra short-throw UHD laser projection is the future of home theater.

Then again, maybe Panasonic is making real progress with inkjet printed UHD OLED and the company is deliberately staying totally silent on the topic.

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