Panasonic to End Plasma Panel Production By April 2014 - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 392 Old 10-09-2013, 10:52 AM
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With flat panel sales falling again worldwide, I don't see how it will be a blockbuster year for flat panels at CES in a few months. I really hope it is. However, it seems that the profit margins on sets is razor thin and getting even smaller with the downward pressures from the Chinese. Just look at how prices of 4K sets have fallen so quickly. The TV business is a really tough one. As much as I love the promise of OLED, there is little market for sets at the prices they want for one. $9k for a 55" 1080p set? What would a 4k set of the same size retail for? Hopefully Panasonic will tell us soon. As for 65" and 70" OLED sets, I would love to see them, but not at $10k plus. Until OLED is available in quantity and affordable prices, the flat panel market will continue to be stagnant at best. Maybe CES 2016 will be the blockbuster event for flat panels.

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post #32 of 392 Old 10-09-2013, 11:06 AM
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There goes my hope for a HDMI 2.0 VT70, even if it had the same panel as the VT60.

It won't be possible to find a TV with decent black levels for an affordable price for the next few years....that sucks.
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post #33 of 392 Old 10-09-2013, 11:11 AM
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If you want a plasma set, buy it now.

It will be years before we have widely available quality 4K content, anyway.
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post #34 of 392 Old 10-09-2013, 11:18 AM
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Wonder if sharp will follow suit? Vizio is king.
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post #35 of 392 Old 10-09-2013, 11:23 AM
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The Panasonic insider confirmed after this news, a complete lineup of plasma for 2014.Ive asked there if it's possible to use hdmi 2.0 and other new feature in the plasma lineup and the answer was yes.So until ces everything looks good.So plasma lovers we still have high hopes !
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post #36 of 392 Old 10-09-2013, 11:27 AM
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What precedent are the guys following who say that these will be available for a while?

Just from my few years experience selling tvs, you can't find prior model year sets after the Super Bowl. Go into Sears or Best Buy in late January or February and it looks like they're going out of business because they just can't find the sets to sell. Even into March you can't order much.

They wind down production at the end of the calender year, show off new stuff at CES, then have that available in stores between mid February and Mid May.
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post #37 of 392 Old 10-09-2013, 11:34 AM
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This is sad, I wanted to wait till spring or early summer before I pulled the trigger on the ST60. I'll be lucky to get one by then, and like bd2003 said everything with good black levels will be too much money for a couple of years easy. Panny going strictly LED? BOO!
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post #38 of 392 Old 10-09-2013, 11:55 AM
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this is so sad. i wonder what the REAL reason plasma's aren't being produced. because it can't be due to lack of sales. just go try and buy an ST60 right now, you probably can't find one...

and even though LCD sales exceed plasma, that's not on the tech, that's on marketing. when was the last time you saw a commercial for a plasma? i can't even remember. if sharp can sell 'quattro' which scientifically can't help color, then companies could surely sell the best picture quality available today.

my conspiracy theory is that they don't want plasma's to compete with OLED because plasma would win. who would buy OLED for 5x the price if there's only a slight if any increase in picture quality. they know OLED isn't going to steal sales away from LED. ppl who buy LED aren't looking for the best blacks obviously, or color reproduction. the only ppl who would consider spending 6-10grand on a 60" OLED are the ppl currently lining up to buy zt60's.

it's very unfortunate that the best value in flat screen displays has to be killed (not die) for the next great thing to be successful.

i hope samsung rides the success of the f8500 for at least a couple more years and basks in the unchallenged market of best plasma tv.

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post #39 of 392 Old 10-09-2013, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnblowcls View Post

The Panasonic insider confirmed after this news, a complete lineup of plasma for 2014.Ive asked there if it's possible to use hdmi 2.0 and other new feature in the plasma lineup and the answer was yes.So until ces everything looks good.So plasma lovers we still have high hopes !

There's the thing, just because they may or may not be doing R&D on the panel, doesn't mean other facets of the TV like HDMI components for one example won't be upgraded in the 70-series models over the 60-series.

We really have to take a deep breath and wait and see what CES holds, it's only three months away.
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post #40 of 392 Old 10-09-2013, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

this is so sad. i wonder what the REAL reason plasma's aren't being produced. because it can't be due to lack of sales. just go try and buy an ST60 right now, you probably can't find one...

and even though LCD sales exceed plasma, that's not on the tech, that's on marketing. when was the last time you saw a commercial for a plasma? i can't even remember. if sharp can sell 'quattro' which scientifically can't help color, then companies could surely sell the best picture quality available today.

my conspiracy theory is that they don't want plasma's to compete with OLED because plasma would win. who would buy OLED for 5x the price if there's only a slight if any increase in picture quality. they know OLED isn't going to steal sales away from LED. ppl who buy LED aren't looking for the best blacks obviously, or color reproduction. the only ppl who would consider spending 6-10grand on a 60" OLED are the ppl currently lining up to buy zt60's.

it's very unfortunate that the best value in flat screen displays has to be killed (not die) for the next great thing to be successful.

i hope samsung rides the success of the f8500 for at least a couple more years and basks in the unchallenged market of best plasma tv.

I don't know how pricing and discounts works all the way up the supply chain, but I can tell you where I worked that we routinely sold the GT series at or under cost, the idea being that your $400 Avatar/3D glasses kit and extended warranty would make up some of the difference. The ST30 often had spiffs on it to help move them.

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post #41 of 392 Old 10-09-2013, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by pittsoccer33 View Post

I don't know how pricing and discounts works all the way up the supply chain, but I can tell you where I worked that we routinely sold the GT series at or under cost, the idea being that your $400 Avatar/3D glasses kit and extended warranty would make up some of the difference. The ST30 often had spiffs on it to help move them.

if you sell under cost, how does that affect panasonic? isn't that your store taking a loss on one item to help make a profit on another? panasonic charges you 1500 for the TV, it shouldn't matter if you sell it for 1300 or 2000, they still make 1500. don't they?

if panasonic is losing money on a product they sell out of every year, with almost NO advertising, they will lose money no matter what they produce. if you can't make a successful business model around a product that sells itself, you are a doomed company
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post #42 of 392 Old 10-09-2013, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

panasonic charges you 1500 for the TV, it shouldn't matter if you sell it for 1300 or 2000, they still make 1500. don't they?

I know at various times the manufacturers give the stores a "rebate" on the margin discount that occurred during a promotion. Or if you bought this model tv we gave you this model bluray player and 3D glasses for free. That stuff was coordinated with the manufacturers. And like I said, I've been paid spiffs by the manufacturers ranging from $10-$125 to sell certain models on top of the commission the store paid.

Like I said, I don't know how it all shook out at the high level and how much those types of promotional tactics cost them versus cost the retailers.
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if panasonic is losing money on a product they sell out of every year, with almost NO advertising, they will lose money no matter what they produce. if you can't make a successful business model around a product that sells itself, you are a doomed company

they sell very well to enthusiasts on a forum like this, but not to the general public. In the 46" and larger sizes I probably sold Samsung LEDs 3:1 against all other makes and models combined.

The public by and large is extremely skeptical of plasma tvs - they don't last very long, they burn in, they're on their way out, they have bad picture quality, you can't see them during the day, their coworker/neighbor/cousin/fairy godmother said they're no good and they need an LED - the list went on.

Someone buying on the low end has an uncanny ability to convince themselves that a garbage no name 1080p LED looks better than a 720p Sanyo/Panasonic plasma.
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post #43 of 392 Old 10-09-2013, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by johnblowcls View Post

The Panasonic insider confirmed after this news, a complete lineup of plasma for 2014.Ive asked there if it's possible to use hdmi 2.0 and other new feature in the plasma lineup and the answer was yes.So until ces everything looks good.So plasma lovers we still have high hopes !

I saw his post. Good news.
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post #44 of 392 Old 10-09-2013, 03:20 PM
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Panasonic 'to quit' loss-making plasma TV business
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24458805

Panasonic to drop plasma TV business early next year, says sources
http://www.slashgear.com/panasonic-to-drop-plasma-tv-business-early-next-year-says-sources-09300707/

Very send to hear Panasonic is leaving the plasma arena this soon but not very surprised here, I know we've all heard the rumors for a long time now and many of you probably thought they wouldn't actually pull out of the arena quite so soon. I will miss seeing Panasonic continue to advance in the Plasma arena and to see just how much further they could have taken the technology. I've seen them grow much over the few years I've been with them starting with my first plasma display the VT30. I currently have the ST60 great picture for the value btw couldn't be happier. Anyway I would have liked to have seen how much further they could have taken this technology and I can't help but wonder what James Cameron is thinking about all this?

PS: Really looking forward to seeing what Panasonic will do with OLED next, let's put the sad times behind us and the bright days ahead. wink.gif

 

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post #45 of 392 Old 10-09-2013, 03:30 PM
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Even tho,they might have burn-in issues,but I still buy one over any LED tv.
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post #46 of 392 Old 10-09-2013, 05:58 PM
 
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Why are a lot of people so pissed off?

Really, in a few years there will be 'better' tech that you will all wow to. Perhaps over OLED maybe not who knows.

Curved 100 inchers. Now we're talking.
Suck it up and get excited.

It's just evolution.
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post #47 of 392 Old 10-09-2013, 06:06 PM
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^^^
You said it yourself "in a few years" smile.gif
Right now the Panny ST60 55-60" is around $1,500. Wake me up when OLED is proven, not curved and under 3 grand for the same size. Just my 2 cents.
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^
Enjoy what you have now and the next level is coming, so get prepared to enjoy that too.

That's it!

Jeez we should all be smiling our as*es off.

My 2c.

HDMI 2.0 baby yeah!
/ Austin Powers™
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post #49 of 392 Old 10-09-2013, 06:13 PM
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Curved = distorted. End of story for me. Inevitably all the new technology will happen but it will take awhile. I'm all for it but jumping on board now is not worth it IMO.
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^ Uh oh.

Your eyes don't see flat in real life buddy....

A calibrated cinema screen curves BTW.
It all helps to push us towards really good 3D without glasses.
That is the future my friend.

Sorry all, let's get back to Panasonic Plasma loveliness......

/ edited
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post #51 of 392 Old 10-09-2013, 06:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

^ Uh oh.

Your eyes don't see flat in real life buddy....

A calibrated cinema screen curves BTW.
It all helps to push us towards really good 3D without glasses.
That is the future my friend.

Sorry all, let's get back to Panasonic Plasma loveliness......

/ edited


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post #52 of 392 Old 10-09-2013, 06:25 PM
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^ a cinema screen is a tad bigger, the curved screens now are a gimmick and distorted slightly. Don't think for a second that it's not all about marketing. They're curved like a cinema screen so they must be better. Have a good night.



Edit;
I'm all for OLED and 4K but I want a 60" panel soon. So it's either pay a ridiculous price for a technology (LED/LCD) I don't want or pay even more for OLED, or buy a Panny plasma now or wait a few years.
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biggrin.gif

Let's all convene in a few years and have this chat again wink.gif

In any event. Pana going AWOL on Plasma is not the end. Seriously....
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post #54 of 392 Old 10-09-2013, 06:43 PM
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biggrin.gif

Let's all convene in a few years and have this chat again wink.gif



By then we'll be having the 8K discussion biggrin.gif
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32k wink.gif
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^
Enjoy what you have now and the next level is coming, so get prepared to enjoy that too.

That's it!

Jeez we should all be smiling our as*es off.

My 2c.

HDMI 2.0 baby yeah!
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No, I just see competition drying up and a bunch of well-wishing about OLED (very little grounded in reality or actuality).
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Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

biggrin.gif

Let's all convene in a few years and have this chat again wink.gif

In any event. Pana going AWOL on Plasma is not the end. Seriously....
That's easy for a Samsung plasma owner to say...
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post #59 of 392 Old 10-09-2013, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
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I know at various times the manufacturers give the stores a "rebate" on the margin discount that occurred during a promotion. Or if you bought this model tv we gave you this model bluray player and 3D glasses for free. That stuff was coordinated with the manufacturers. And like I said, I've been paid spiffs by the manufacturers ranging from $10-$125 to sell certain models on top of the commission the store paid.

Like I said, I don't know how it all shook out at the high level and how much those types of promotional tactics cost them versus cost the retailers.
they sell very well to enthusiasts on a forum like this, but not to the general public. In the 46" and larger sizes I probably sold Samsung LEDs 3:1 against all other makes and models combined.

The public by and large is extremely skeptical of plasma tvs - they don't last very long, they burn in, they're on their way out, they have bad picture quality, you can't see them during the day, their coworker/neighbor/cousin/fairy godmother said they're no good and they need an LED - the list went on.

Someone buying on the low end has an uncanny ability to convince themselves that a garbage no name 1080p LED looks better than a 720p Sanyo/Panasonic plasma.

^^ the general public believes whatever the marketing tells them. that is the only reason they buy more LED's. if the plasmas sell to enthusiasts, and they are CHEAPER, there's no reason they couldn't be sold to the general public too. I mean how hard of a sale could it be? it's a cheaper tv that produces a better picture. ppl are skeptical of plasmas because they haven't seen one advertised in 10yrs...

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post #60 of 392 Old 10-09-2013, 08:25 PM
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Tragic.
Love all our Panny Plasmas.
Good news.
It will be a while before we buy any new panels.
-BB
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