Panasonic to End Plasma Panel Production By April 2014 - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 392 Old 10-15-2013, 04:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

Plasma tech is not the better anymore it's about equal actually, In the past I'd have agreed with you but that's not holding true anymore not since the Sharp Elite was released a few years back anyway. And now since OLED has entered the picture everyone seems to be going that route so I think very soon everything will all change again. Unfortunately I don't see Plasma being around very much longer there just isn't any money in it. cool.gif
The Sharp Elite was discontinued...if anything, LED has largely gone in reverse since the rapid disappearance of full-array panels. There may be one or two mega expensive 4K panels that have full-array, however. I can never keep track. redface.gif
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post #182 of 392 Old 10-15-2013, 04:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

I don't watch movies of interest off-axis do you? I think most video enthusiast would tell you the same. So that point you are making is well, rather pointless. cool.gif

PS: However I'm not saying off-axis viewing is not important, in fact it does help some with general screen uniformity specifically in color. But it shouldn't be used as a negative when determining picture quality from the sweet spot which is what most video enthusiasts will be in when evaluating or watching content. wink.gif
True, but sometimes I want to sit on the recliner as opposed to the couch, and it's nice getting equitable PQ from almost any angle without having to rearrange furniture. cool.gif
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post #183 of 392 Old 10-16-2013, 01:57 AM
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Then it's quite possible off-axis viewing might be an important feature for you, however it's also very likely your company may not even know the difference unless they are video enthusiasts as well. biggrin.gif
Look my friend I have two plasma and two led TV's,and I know the difference on both and finally all Sharp TV's are terrible on viewing angles.
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post #184 of 392 Old 10-16-2013, 03:15 AM
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Panny is terrible your right..must be why the ZT is the new reference panel.

Dude we get it you love your KURO now go to the KURO thread...that's where I go when I want to discuss my KURO

I was simply quoting the post before mine. And basically explaining that the Kuro was too premium to copy/implement the technology (properly). Or it would have been done in the last five years. So it's quite unlikely any plasma manufacturer now will do so now. With the expense of manufacturing OLED nowadays.

But then again tbh i didn't expect you to pick up on that.

Evey high end tv since the last Kuro has been the new reference at one time or another since Pioneer quit. Depends on what or where you read.

Lol i read the VT30 was the new reference in numerous magazines and websites not so long ago. Considering the Kuro had long before stopped being manufactured it doesn't take a genius to work out the simplicity of how that could be allowed to stand.

Enough said.
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post #185 of 392 Old 10-16-2013, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

the consumers that are 'choosing' LED TV's right now, will buy whatever the marketing tells them is the best.

I can appreciate that in it's current condition Panasonic is losing money on plasmas and is pulling the cord because it's losing money. i'm just saying if you make the worlds best tv and can't find a way to be profitable selling it for 3grand, I can't imagine they will be profitable selling anything else in the market either.

Exactly. Those Plasma factories were totally paid off and they still could not make a decent profit because of low cost LCD. Nobody will be able to compete with the Chinese. They have taken out most of the Japanese display makers, with Sharp barely holding on, and the Koreans/Taiwan are next. Unless Panasonic partners with the Chinese to build their 4K OLED, they will never be a mass consumer product and remain a low volume niche product.
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post #186 of 392 Old 10-16-2013, 10:44 AM
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You can't possibly make a decent profit in the very competitive TV market if you can't afford or don't think it's necessary to advertise. When is the last time you saw a commercial for anybody's brand of plasma? If you have several professional sources stating that your TV provides the best picture out there, that it has been compared to all the best and came out number one at least two years in a row, then how in the world is the average consumer supposed to consider your TV? Do you think that Hyundai could compete with the likes of Honda and Toyota if they didn't flood the airways with commercials touting their advantages (like a long long warranty)? Who would have ever considered buying a Vizio if they weren't all over the TV stations, especially during football games?
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post #187 of 392 Old 10-16-2013, 11:41 AM
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I think the reason most rich people go for projectors over Plasma is because they got burn by the burn-in of a touchy high end plasma model too many times. That my 2 cents about it.
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post #188 of 392 Old 10-16-2013, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Weboh View Post

I think the reason most rich people go for projectors over Plasma is because they got burn by the burn-in of a touchy high end plasma model too many times. That my 2 cents about it.

The main reason most folks buy a projector over plasma is screen size.


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post #189 of 392 Old 10-16-2013, 01:21 PM
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The main reason most folks buy a projector over plasma is screen size.

+1
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post #190 of 392 Old 10-16-2013, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

You can't possibly make a decent profit in the very competitive TV market if you can't afford or don't think it's necessary to advertise. When is the last time you saw a commercial for anybody's brand of plasma? If you have several professional sources stating that your TV provides the best picture out there, that it has been compared to all the best and came out number one at least two years in a row, then how in the world is the average consumer supposed to consider your TV? Do you think that Hyundai could compete with the likes of Honda and Toyota if they didn't flood the airways with commercials touting their advantages (like a long long warranty)? Who would have ever considered buying a Vizio if they weren't all over the TV stations, especially during football games?

I agree. When was the last time you saw a Panasonic Ad? There is an old saying " You don't know, what you don't know". People don't know. Most everyone that I know are thumbs up on LED. I rescued on person from the dark side. He was about ready to go with an LED. I convinced him to go with an ST50 and he thanks me every time I see him. Add to that the crazy exclusive roll out plan they had this year.........

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post #191 of 392 Old 10-16-2013, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

The Sharp Elite was discontinued...if anything, LED has largely gone in reverse since the rapid disappearance of full-array panels. There may be one or two mega expensive 4K panels that have full-array, however. I can never keep track. redface.gif

I was referring specifically to comments directed at advancements of one technology over another not to what's currently available on the market. rolleyes.gif However with that said yes the Elite is no longer available sadly and right now I'd have to say the best display currently on the market is a Plasma, specifically the Panasonic line of Plasma display's the ZT60, VT60 and ST60. cool.gif

 

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post #192 of 392 Old 10-16-2013, 03:31 PM
 
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No need to get snippy with the eyeroll. Obviously, I was arguing based on what's available today, and each tech, even in its most advanced incarnation, still suffers drawbacks.
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post #193 of 392 Old 10-16-2013, 05:26 PM
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while I would accept an LCD with proper backlighting and good local dimming, I still don't like that being the only option. truth be told, I TRIED and tried hard to find an LCD based screen since I do a lot surfing the web, and computer related stuff through my HTPC. the apparent abandonement of full array put an end to that.

off axis viewing is definitely a concern, if i'm not mistaken the only panels with good off-axis viewing are IPS which generally have the worst blacks. that's not exactly a positive trade-off imo. I certainly don't need 180* viewing, but when many lcd's are in the 30-40* range, well, that almost puts a person dead center in the screen seeing quality loss on the edges. if you sit reasonably close, a 40* field of view isn't unheard of, and I think from my experience you do start to see drop off at about half of what the TV's are rated at. I know when I view a tv from 40* off axis that's rated at 40* off axis, it looks pretty darn terrible. and any more makes it pretty much unwatchable. they don't seem to be rated for the viewing angles that provide perfect picture quality. if they did, that range would likely be about 10* for most TV's.

still, if they could manage to produce black, and not flashlighting/clouding, I would certainly accept the viewing angle limitations. as already stated, it's not like watching anything from a sharp angle looks good anyway. but i'm sure we've all gone to that person's house where their media room wasn't designed for media, and sitting 50* off axis from their 'awesome' 70" LED tv makes you cringe.

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post #194 of 392 Old 10-16-2013, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Weboh View Post

I think the reason most rich people go for projectors over Plasma is because they got burn by the burn-in of a touchy high end plasma model too many times. That my 2 cents about it.

that's a really ignorant post

1) my projector was less expensive than my plasma, you don't have to be rich to get a projector(my first was 1500 with screen bundled in)

2) I've never had issues with BURN IN, I've been using my plasma as my sole computer monitor for a few years

3) I currently have a projector and plasma in my theatre room. I bought the plasma for 'abusive' use like surfing the web, and 'casual' use like just watching tv, or gaming for a few minutes at a time. basically I use the plasma whenever i'm being protective of the more finicky projector.

there are way more 'issues' to using projectors than there are plasmas.

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post #195 of 392 Old 10-16-2013, 05:41 PM
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I was simply quoting the post before mine. And basically explaining that the Kuro was too premium to copy/implement the technology (properly). Or it would have been done in the last five years. So it's quite unlikely any plasma manufacturer now will do so now. With the expense of manufacturing OLED nowadays.

But then again tbh i didn't expect you to pick up on that.

Evey high end tv since the last Kuro has been the new reference at one time or another since Pioneer quit. Depends on what or where you read.

Lol i read the VT30 was the new reference in numerous magazines and websites not so long ago. Considering the Kuro had long before stopped being manufactured it doesn't take a genius to work out the simplicity of how that could be allowed to stand.

Enough said.

you when you're poking a bear right?

forget the kuro stuff. I agree it's not going to be used, although whether that's because of cost, or because it's too inefficient to get through todays energy guide ratings(I've heard that as well) doesn't really matter.

what you're failing to see is you're on the same side. a vote for kuro, or a vote for Panasonic is both a vote for plasma. the fact that plasma TV's 5years ago were better than the best LED's on the market today, and arguably better than the best LED ever made(except for picture size) is damn impressive. and the fact that similarly good results can be achieved today for about half the price just shows again how superior plasma technology is.

kuro, sharp elite, and zt60. even if they were all equal, the kuro did it first, and the zt60 did it cheapest. that's two wins for plasma in my book.
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post #196 of 392 Old 10-16-2013, 06:12 PM
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I think the reason most rich people go for projectors over Plasma is because they got burn by the burn-in of a touchy high end plasma model too many times. That my 2 cents about it.

Well, at least you assigned the correct valuation.
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post #197 of 392 Old 10-16-2013, 06:15 PM
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How does 3D look on the ST60? I did demo one at my local BB but not in 3D.
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post #198 of 392 Old 10-16-2013, 06:35 PM
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3d on the ST60 is terrific since the recent software update.
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post #199 of 392 Old 10-16-2013, 06:40 PM
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3d on the ST60 is terrific since the recent software update.



Hi, good to know. What specifically did the update do?
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post #200 of 392 Old 10-17-2013, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

that's a really ignorant post

1) my projector was less expensive than my plasma, you don't have to be rich to get a projector(my first was 1500 with screen bundled in)
Interesting.
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2) I've never had issues with BURN IN, I've been using my plasma as my sole computer monitor for a few years
Burn-in can be subtle and not noticed. It can very slight, as are all my logo burns have been difficult to notice. Things like air conditioning also make a difference.

I wish had appreciated the colors red and green more, because they tend not to burn-in as much. Realizing this, I have finally found the settings the calibrator wanted me to use for my TV, and I dislike admitting I have been using too much color. 50 is way too much and is a little tacky.
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3) I currently have a projector and plasma in my theatre room. I bought the plasma for 'abusive' use like surfing the web, and 'casual' use like just watching tv, or gaming for a few minutes at a time. basically I use the plasma whenever i'm being protective of the more finicky projector.
My preference would be to use the projector and change the bulb every year.redface.gif
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there are way more 'issues' to using projectors than there are plasmas.
But plasmas don't seem to be selling at the high end, and high end models aren't built to please IMO.
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post #201 of 392 Old 10-17-2013, 04:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi, good to know. What specifically did the update do?

Don't fall for it. I was at both CNET and Consumer Reports testing labs just yesterday. The ST60 has a lot of crosstalk, as do just about all active 3D HDTVs. In my opinion, active 3D on anything but OLED or a DLP projector is a disaster—no wonder so many people hate the format. 


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post #202 of 392 Old 10-17-2013, 05:12 AM
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Don't fall for it. I was at both CNET and Consumer Reports testing labs just yesterday. The ST60 has a lot of crosstalk, as do just about all active 3D HDTVs. In my opinion, active 3D on anything but OLED or a DLP projector is a disaster—no wonder so many people hate the format. 



Damn! So don't expect much from this panel as far as 3D goes Mark?
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post #203 of 392 Old 10-17-2013, 05:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Damn! So don't expect much from this panel as far as 3D goes Mark?

In 3D mode, the ST60 is bright, which addresses one of the main complaints about 3D. However the crosstalk is still there and nothing bothers me more when watching 3D content than crosstalk.


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post #204 of 392 Old 10-17-2013, 05:26 AM
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In 3D mode, the ST60 is bright, which addresses one of the main complaints about 3D. However the crosstalk is still there and nothing bothers me more when watching 3D content than crosstalk.



I understand, I'm going to order this panel anyway, since 90% of what I will be watching is in 2D I don't think I can go wrong. Now to find the right deal smile.gif
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post #205 of 392 Old 10-17-2013, 05:33 AM
 
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I understand, I'm going to order this panel anyway, since 90% of what I will be watching is in 2D I don't think I can go wrong. Now to find the right deal smile.gif

Check out Pauls they have a great deal on 60ST60 which ends today...promotional code from slick deals takes a nice amount off
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post #206 of 392 Old 10-17-2013, 05:35 AM
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Check out Pauls they have a great deal on 60ST60 which ends today...promotional code from slick deals takes a nice amount off



Nice thanks! I'd much rather order from Paul's, I haven't heard one bad thing about them.
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post #207 of 392 Old 10-17-2013, 05:41 AM - Thread Starter
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I understand, I'm going to order this panel anyway, since 90% of what I will be watching is in 2D I don't think I can go wrong. Now to find the right deal smile.gif

It is a tremendous TV. In relative terms, the 3D is better than many, many other TVs that use active glasses. The 2D quality absolutely shreds LCD TVs and comes remarkably close to the "reference" plasmas in terms of black levels—except in the most difficult scenes like outer space. I had a chance to see the ST60 and ZT60 side-by-side—calibrated and in a controlled environment and playing the same content. The best-of-the-best the world of LCD has to offer was there as well. The ST60 is much closer to a ZT60 than it is to any LCD panel, in terms of overall image quality.

 

It's really hard to believe that Panasonic couldn't find a way to get the message out about the image quality advantage its plasma panels enjoy over competitors' LCD models.


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post #208 of 392 Old 10-17-2013, 05:46 AM
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It is a tremendous TV. In relative terms, the 3D is better than many, many other TVs that use active glasses. The 2D quality absolutely shreds LCD TVs and comes remarkably close to the "reference" plasmas in terms of black levels—except in the most difficult scenes like outer space. I had a chance to see the ST60 and ZT60 side-by-side—calibrated and in a controlled environment and playing the same content. The best-of-the-best the world of LCD has to offer was there as well. The ST60 is much closer to a ZT60 than it is to any LCD panel, in terms of overall image quality.



This just made my mind, I was 95% certain anyway but I needed a push and will try order this ASAP before they close shop. Thanks Mark!
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post #209 of 392 Old 10-17-2013, 06:01 AM
 
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Nice thanks! I'd much rather order from Paul's, I haven't heard one bad thing about them.

Yea they have stellar reviews and great delivery..I will most likely pull trigger on 60VT60 for 1800$ today
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post #210 of 392 Old 10-17-2013, 06:02 AM
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Yea they have stellar reviews and great delivery..I will most likely pull trigger on 60VT60 for 1800$ today



Great! Let us know what you think of it.
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