Ultra-D Glasses-Free 3D Update - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 390 Old 01-09-2014, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by keb33509 View Post

I know it is just the software being licensed, but I am wanting to know if anyone is planning on releasing any sets utilizing the technology this year.

Software, firmware and circuit design as well as screen design. It's all part of the system to make it work. When I asked some of the reps from companies offering the Ultra D system when? They all said "this year". When I asked about price? They all said it will be competitive with the other 4K offerings using glasses. (Whatever that is supposed to mean". But, nobody would state an MSRP at this time. Sorry, but those responses are always typical of new technology said to be available and not a concept demo. FWIW: Stream TV last year claimed their sets would be available in 2013 but we're still waiting.


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post #272 of 390 Old 01-09-2014, 09:18 PM
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That's kind of what I expected. I appreciate the response. Hopefully we can get more information over the next couple of months.
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post #273 of 390 Old 01-09-2014, 09:33 PM
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Even if some sets are available this year, it seems like it will only be those Chinese branded televisions that you can't even find in the states.
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post #274 of 390 Old 01-09-2014, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

I believe this is due to the pulling of the sides of the pyramid of view when off to one side. It changes the perspective. With ultra D I still have this sensation. But the depth will change in and back out depending on where you are. This movement can cause the 3D to actually look flat even when almost looking straight on. If you sit normally and look at the screen, with maximum depth, you would need to move your eyes viewing position to the side about 3-4" to cause a loss of 3D when sitting 2 screen widths away. I specifically measured this. To get the best glasses free viewing from any sitting angle, you will need to adjust your final head position slightly to optimize the depth range. This is especially critical for negative parallax. Much less for positive parallax. This might seem like it is a problem but in reality, most people only shift their eyes less than an inch while watching TV unless they move completely to do something else. Did that answer your question, Joe?

Yes, that helps, Don. Thanks. I think we're all just going to have to be patient with this roll-out. I'll keep a close eye on AVS and hope its available for demo near my area later this year. We're just not going to get any more concrete information from CES. It's disappointing, but I understand that they can't reveal too much before the time is right.

You know how in Vegas and Edius there are options for viewing 3D in various formats when you edit - anaglyph, side by side, line interleave, etc.? I'd love to have a 55" Ultra-D 4K panel in my edit suite, with a quarter-screen 3D program window and the other toolbars and edit windows arranged around it. I don't know if it's even feasible, but that would be one sweet 3D editing work space. I'd redo the whole room and find a way to fit it in.

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post #275 of 390 Old 01-09-2014, 10:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

I believe this is due to the pulling of the sides of the pyramid of view when off to one side. It changes the perspective. With ultra D I still have this sensation. But the depth will change in and back out depending on where you are. This movement can cause the 3D to actually look flat even when almost looking straight on. If you sit normally and look at the screen, with maximum depth, you would need to move your eyes viewing position to the side about 3-4" to cause a loss of 3D when sitting 2 screen widths away. I specifically measured this. To get the best glasses free viewing from any sitting angle, you will need to adjust your final head position slightly to optimize the depth range. This is especially critical for negative parallax. Much less for positive parallax. This might seem like it is a problem but in reality, most people only shift their eyes less than an inch while watching TV unless they move completely to do something else. Did that answer your question, Joe?

Yes, that helps, Don. Thanks. I think we're all just going to have to be patient with this roll-out. I'll keep a close eye on AVS and hope its available for demo near my area later this year. We're just not going to get any more concrete information from CES. It's disappointing, but I understand that they can't reveal too much before the time is right.

You know how in Vegas and Edius there are options for viewing 3D in various formats when you edit - anaglyph, side by side, line interleave, etc.? I'd love to have a 55" Ultra-D 4K panel in my edit suite, with a quarter-screen 3D program window and the other toolbars and edit windows arranged around it. I don't know if it's even feasible, but that would be one sweet 3D editing work space. I'd redo the whole room and find a way to fit it in.

I'll put up a post with a full update on the state of Ultra-D, hopefully tomorrow. I will share this now though: 50" and 55" models are going to ship by summer. More importantly, demo units will be available to view at several locations: NewEgg in L.A., J&R in NYC, and HiFi House in Philly—and a 110" version will go into production.

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post #276 of 390 Old 01-10-2014, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post

I'll put up a post with a full update on the state of Ultra-D, hopefully tomorrow. I will share this now though: 50" and 55" models are going to ship by summer.
Did you manage to ask about international retail availability? (I'm in the UK).
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post #277 of 390 Old 01-10-2014, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post

I'll put up a post with a full update on the state of Ultra-D, hopefully tomorrow. I will share this now though: 50" and 55" models are going to ship by summer. More importantly, demo units will be available to view at several locations: NewEgg in L.A., J&R in NYC, and HiFi House in Philly—and a 110" version will go into production.

Thanks, Mark. Looking forward to it.

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post #278 of 390 Old 01-10-2014, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post

I'll put up a post with a full update on the state of Ultra-D, hopefully tomorrow. I will share this now though: 50" and 55" models are going to ship by summer. More importantly, demo units will be available to view at several locations: NewEgg in L.A., J&R in NYC, and HiFi House in Philly—and a 110" version will go into production.

Great to hear about the demo units. Any idea when they'll be ready to view? I'd definitely be interested in stopping by HiFi House.
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post #279 of 390 Old 01-10-2014, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I'll put up a post with a full update on the state of Ultra-D, hopefully tomorrow. I will share this now though: 50" and 55" models are going to ship by summer.
Did you manage to ask about international retail availability? (I'm in the UK).

There will be demo units in London, Beijing (China) and Taiwan, not sure where or when. I'll provide any news as I get it.


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post #280 of 390 Old 01-10-2014, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post

There will be demo units in London...

Good stuff. Currently there's only a 1-minute looping highlights reel which will only be on display until the end of January:
Quote:
Extinct creatures are brought back to life in DAVID ATTENBOROUGH'S
NATURAL HISTORY MUSEUM ALIVE 3D, to be broadcast at 6.30pm on New
Year's Day on Sky 3D and in 2D on Sky 1 HD...

For the first time in the UK, the Ultra-D screens are now on display
at the Natural History Museum, giving viewers an early look at
highlights from the upcoming broadcast. The six week promotion at the
museum will run continuously during opening hours, demonstrating how
watching 3D on 50" screens without the need for clumsy glasses is a
reality with Stream TV's 4K Ultra-D display.

The public can experience Ultra-D no glasses required in person at:

Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD
Open Monday to Sunday from 10.00-17.50, except 24-26 December.
Last admission 17.30

Written and presented by the multi-award winning natural history
broadcaster, DAVID ATTENBOROUGH'S NATURAL HISTORY MUSEUM ALIVE 3D
marks his sixth 3D project for Sky. The film is produced by Colossus
Productions, a joint venture between Atlantic Productions and Sky 3D.
http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/news-releases/sky-selects-ultra-d-glasses-free-3d-screens-to-promote-david-attenboroughs-natural-history-museum-alive-3d-237795701.html
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Special display

Central Hall

1 December 2013 - 31 January 2014

Witness the extinct moa come to life and break free from its case in a
60-second clip on two 3D screens in the Museum.

The clip is a sneak preview from David Attenborough's Natural History
Museum Alive TV programme, in which Sir David brings his favourite
extinct creatures back to life.

Tune into Sky 3D and Sky 1 on New Year's day to watch the amazing
programme, made with ground-breaking 3D technology, state-of-the-art
CGI, and the help of our scientists.

The screens in the Museum use the latest autostereoscopy technology,
which lets visitors watch the stereoscopic, or 3D, footage without
glasses.

There is one screen near the Diplodocus on the ground floor of the
Central Hall and another next to the moa skeleton outside the
Treasures Cadogan Gallery.
http://www.nhm.ac.uk/visit-us/whats-on/events/programs/nhm/david_attenborough%27s_natural_history_museum_alive_3d_preview.html
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post #281 of 390 Old 01-10-2014, 06:19 PM
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I bought an Ultra-D 4k naked eye 3D TV and brought it home today. 

 

I spent a lot of time in the booth and talked to people involved from the investment side through the sales, biz dev, tech and on to the production side. I am going to give a complete but very abridged review with my opinions and the undeniable facts each labeled as either FACT or Opinion. 

 

 

FACTS

- I am now the American distributor of these 4K 3D stream TVs and am able to take orders for Business to Business use cases now for March delivery. These displays are suitable for Digital signage, medical, military and education.

 

- Pegatron produces the displays using licensed technology from Stream TV.  (they also manufacture the ipad mini)

 

- Haier, Konka, and Marvel Digital all displayed StreamTV technology/displays in their booths

 

- Stream tv showed real time 2D cable television conversion to 3D, 3D Blu-Ray, Playstation 4 gaming realtime, movie trailers, digital signage CGI, Pre Recorded 3D video. They also had one unit running on a small qualcomm chip. 

 

- The StreamTV can take and display a real time video feed using a 3D camera

 

- I have worked with, created content for, owned, purchased, sold or used Alioscopy, Tridelity, Dimenco, Exceptional 3D, Magnetic 3D, IZON, Hampoo, and NEO3DO. This is the best large screen 3D i have seen. 

 

- Anything can be played in 2D and also the 3D effect can be changed up and down at any time with a "3d volume" button. 

 

 

OPINIONS

- This is the first 3D technology that is suitable for extended viewing and the living room. 

 

- there is a no definite sweet spot as it spans the range. There is also no "bad spot."  It goes from very good to great. 

 

- It is as easy to use as a refrigerator - Plug it in and feed it an HDMI signal

 

- If you get too close (less than 5 feet (1.5m) the view gets a little wavy, if you are too far 20 feet (9m) it looses its depth but stays perfectly clear, same to the sides, loses depth but fidelity of image is maintained.  

 

- Clarity and colors are vivid and brilliant, blacks are very black, there is no screen door effect due to the lens (these are common problems with other 3D displays)

 

 

 

Hope this helps. 

 

 

 

 

Side Notes - Sisvel showed a Dimenco as did many other booths. The 8k 85" 3D display was weak, saw IZON for the first time, pretty compact solution but low resolution. I am a co-founder of NEO3DO glassless 3D android tablets as well as a first mover in 3D digital signage and rentals. I look forward to how this display technology will bring us all forward into an age of comfortable 3D high res viewing without the pesky glasses. 

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post #282 of 390 Old 01-10-2014, 06:42 PM
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Very cool. Thanks for posting. Hope you stick around and help feed those of us who are hungry for information about this technology.

I'd be really interested to hear what you think about it with commercial 3D movies in your home. And I'm jealous as hell! biggrin.gif

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post #283 of 390 Old 01-10-2014, 06:59 PM
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Great to hear NEO3DO. It'll be nice to find out expected prices and screen sizes that'll be available for the public. You mention that the screen gets wavy when you're closer than 5 feet. Does that occur only when viewing 3D content or when watching in 2D as well?
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post #284 of 390 Old 01-10-2014, 07:03 PM
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Thanks for that write up. I'm anxious to see these in RL
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post #285 of 390 Old 01-11-2014, 04:08 AM
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It'll be nice to find out expected prices and screen sizes that'll be available for the public.
I'd also like to know whether the consumer sets have HDMI 2.0, H.265 / HEVC decoding, VP9 decoding and in-built Netflix for 4K (as well as other OTT VoD services and YouTube 4K). All the models have Full Array Local Dimming, right? How many zones?
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post #286 of 390 Old 01-11-2014, 04:58 AM
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I had a demo in London yesterday at StreamTV (excellent!). I asked about UK availability - no firm dates yet, but the outlook is for 2Q so not long to wait. A 50 inch panel will be available through Harrods, followed by a 55 inch through Curry's.

 

I'm no AV geek and my wife came along to - perhaps best described as a techno cynic. Anyway we were both blown away by the technology on display. The demo was made on a 50 inch screen and we were sat about 12 foot away - which seemed perfect. The display had a separate CCube box, which will be on a chip embedded in the display by the time it goes into production.  The demo consisted of a short piece on dinosaurs (currently on display at the Natural History museum), followed by Life of Pi, Casablanca  and Lawrence  of Arabia. Life of Pi was already in 3D format so the depth needed to be adjusted down to get the best effect. However what sold us were the two 2D films, it is unbelievable how jaw dropping good these films displayed in converted Ultra-D 3D. As most of our domestic viewing is 2D you can see that this technology is really going to enhance our normal viewing.

 

In response to earlier queries on this forum we had a look from the side - 3D was viewable up to about 70 degrees - however the best results were best found in front (I presume there are more quantitative tests around). Moving around close to the screen it was possible to get a ripple effect but we were told that this would go in the production models.

 

In summary for our type of viewing I would give it at least 5 out of 5 and will be an early adopter.

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I had a demo in London yesterday at StreamTV (excellent!).
Thank you for your report, @willirl. Is it possible for members of the public to book a demo? If a number of enthusiasts from this forum applied as a group would that be more feasible? @imagic / Mark Henninger mentioned a few posts previously that there will be a demo unit in London (separate from the Natural History Museum one) but he had no further details.
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I asked about UK availability.. the outlook is for 2Q so not long to wait. A 50 inch panel will be available through Harrods, followed by a 55 inch through Curry's.
Interesting choice of retailers. Will the two TVs - from two different manufacturers? - have the same actual picture quality, but smaller model be somehow more premium in terms of features (smart TV etc.) and the larger one more basic? I refer you to my post a few messages back. Presumably they're trying to launch before the soccer World Cup? (or football, to use the proper term!)
Quote:
The display had a separate CCube box, which will be on a chip embedded in the display by the time it goes into production... Moving around close to the screen it was possible to get a ripple effect but we were told that this would go in the production models.
@NEO3DO said that, of all the demo models at CES, only one had the Qualcomm chip embedded and all the others used the SeeCube. This would suggest to me that the production process has not yet matured. How are the partner manufacturers planning to implement the chip, remove the ripple effect, and then produce in quantity and distribute to retailers all by June at the latest, given that the majority of the other TVs on display at CES were all displayed in production-final form and yet are still not scheduled for retail availability for the next few months?
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post #288 of 390 Old 01-11-2014, 05:49 AM
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Hi, I am just a member of the public - just lucky to be offered a demo by StreamTV. I cannot offer demos on their behalf - hopefully they will respond to your questions.

 

Re Curry's that was a mistake - I should have said John Lewis.... sorry for that - don't think that there will be a quality difference, but maybe a price difference.

 

On the production readiness, again probably best to wait for StreamTV response, but yes, I would say that these TVs are not yet in full manufacturing flow but now seems imminent.

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post #289 of 390 Old 01-11-2014, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by McGriddle View Post

You mention that the screen gets wavy when you're closer than 5 feet. Does that occur only when viewing 3D content or when watching in 2D as well?

 

ONLY in 3D mode and very close do you begin to see a little wavy - 2D has consistent perfect clarity.

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post #290 of 390 Old 01-11-2014, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by NEO3DO View Post

ONLY in 3D mode and very close do you begin to see a little wavy - 2D has consistent perfect clarity.

Thanks! That's really nice to hear. It would be a complete deal breaker otherwise. I can't wait to see a demo soon.
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post #291 of 390 Old 01-11-2014, 06:04 PM
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Does it have HDMI 2.0? If not I don't see it as being a very useful device...
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post #292 of 390 Old 01-11-2014, 06:39 PM
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I'm pretty sure it will. At this point, it wouldn't make any sense for them to exclude it.
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post #293 of 390 Old 01-12-2014, 05:13 AM
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Hi, I am just a member of the public - just lucky to be offered a demo by StreamTV. I cannot offer demos on their behalf - hopefully they will respond to your questions.
If you don't mind me asking, @willirl, how did you come to be offered the demonstration? Thanks.
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post #294 of 390 Old 01-12-2014, 05:46 AM
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Sadly I can't help but feel if this was as good as some people say, there would have been more coverage and news coming out of CES. The use of shills doesnt inspire much confidence either.
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post #295 of 390 Old 01-12-2014, 06:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Sadly I can't help but feel if this was as good as some people say, there would have been more coverage and news coming out of CES. The use of shills doesnt inspire much confidence either.

In that case you'll have to wait to see it in person, which should be possible soon enough. Not every company has the budget of a Samsung and LG. Until Avatar 2 comes out, 3D is on vacation. The technology itself looks great, but you do have to see it with your own eyes to understand it really works and is no gimmick.

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post #296 of 390 Old 01-12-2014, 09:34 AM
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Sadly I can't help but feel if this was as good as some people say, there would have been more coverage and news coming out of CES. The use of shills doesnt inspire much confidence either.

I agree. I love the new poster who states "I bought an Ultra-D 4k naked eye 3D TV and brought it home today!" and then writes a few lines down that he is the American distributor of this product and will be accepting orders soon. LOL Give me a break. Lot's of smoke and mirrors in here if you ask me.
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post #297 of 390 Old 01-12-2014, 09:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Sadly I can't help but feel if this was as good as some people say, there would have been more coverage and news coming out of CES. The use of shills doesnt inspire much confidence either.

I agree. I love the new poster who states "I bought an Ultra-D 4k naked eye 3D TV and brought it home today!" and then writes a few lines down that he is the American distributor of this product and will be accepting orders soon. LOL Give me a break. Lot's of smoke and mirrors in here if you ask me.

Have you seen one in person? Perhaps consider reserving judgement until you do.

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post #298 of 390 Old 01-12-2014, 10:43 AM
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I'm back to the computer now and stand by my original Ultra D comments. Overall...meh!

A little background may be helpful. I, too, am a stereographer and a engineer involved in display technology for nearly 40 years. Autostereo displays today are better than they have ever been, but until they are the equal (or superior) to displays using polarized glasses (active or passive), they will not succeed in the home. Digital signage is another thing entirely and the Ultra D sets may be perfect for that venue. Two years ago I saw the Alioscopy (http://www.alioscopy.com/en/home.php) technology at the National Stereoscopic Association Convention and was blown away by the depth of the image from several sweet spots. (They claim up to two meters of depth inventory and I believe it.) Note that I mention sweet spots because this is where current autostereo displays break down. Even with more zones, head positioning is critical and small movements cause the stereo illusion to disappear and (worse) snap to pseudo-stereo wherein the depth cues reverse and that which should pop out, pops in and vice versa. It is OK if you are passing a sign telling you to buy product X, but is unwatchable for a movie.

Perhaps it is worth reading a blog by an expert in the field who knows a lot more than I, Dr. Barry Sandrew. http://bsandrew.blogspot.com/2013/12/whats-in-store-for-autostereo-glasses_11.html

I agree with the AVS subscriber who stated that if any of the autostereo technologies were that great, there would have been a lot more buzz. As it is, I heard more about the Bluetooth toothbrush than any of the autostereo systems.

Herb B
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post #299 of 390 Old 01-12-2014, 11:19 AM
 
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I look forward to someday seeing the Ultra D technology.

I enjoy all the versions of 3D. I am speaking of all the kinds of 3D we have. And I like most of the 3D movies I've seen, from flat cardboard dimensionality to well-rounded realistic depictions.

What I want to see is a realistic depiction of life and I am not sure that any version of 3D can do that.
When I look at life through my eyes I don't see any dramatic 3D effect. What I see is subtle. I am not sure if any binocular camera technique can actually give us what we (I) see.

But I do enjoy very much all the 3D I've seen so far.
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post #300 of 390 Old 01-12-2014, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monitormaven View Post

I'm back to the computer now and stand by my original Ultra D comments. Overall...meh!

A little background may be helpful. I, too, am a stereographer and a engineer involved in display technology for nearly 40 years. Autostereo displays today are better than they have ever been, but until they are the equal (or superior) to displays using polarized glasses (active or passive), they will not succeed in the home. Digital signage is another thing entirely and the Ultra D sets may be perfect for that venue. Two years ago I saw the Alioscopy (http://www.alioscopy.com/en/home.php) technology at the National Stereoscopic Association Convention and was blown away by the depth of the image from several sweet spots. (They claim up to two meters of depth inventory and I believe it.) Note that I mention sweet spots because this is where current autostereo displays break down. Even with more zones, head positioning is critical and small movements cause the stereo illusion to disappear and (worse) snap to pseudo-stereo wherein the depth cues reverse and that which should pop out, pops in and vice versa. It is OK if you are passing a sign telling you to buy product X, but is unwatchable for a movie.

Perhaps it is worth reading a blog by an expert in the field who knows a lot more than I, Dr. Barry Sandrew. http://bsandrew.blogspot.com/2013/12/whats-in-store-for-autostereo-glasses_11.html

I agree with the AVS subscriber who stated that if any of the autostereo technologies were that great, there would have been a lot more buzz. As it is, I heard more about the Bluetooth toothbrush than any of the autostereo systems.

Herb B

A stereographer who doesn't know that the amount of depth for a given display size and viewing distance is almost solely a function of the amount of baked in separation in the content. Huh.


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