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post #91 of 390 Old 11-13-2013, 05:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Airion View Post

Very interesting. I'm also curious about how this actually works.
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So how does it make 4 separate images from 3D material that has only 2 discrete images (left and right eye)?

My guess would be the left and right images are repeated and displayed in different directions. Each eye receives copies of both the left and right images, but it's designed such that the left eye mostly sees copies of the left image, and the right eye mostly sees copies of the right. If the left eye sees two copies of the left and one copy of the right, the left image will dominate overall. I think that would make sense. But there would be a big problem: ghosting.

But there is no ghosting—I'm not sure what else is going on, but it works. I do know that the human eye/mind is easy to fool...

Circles within circles, but they appear to form a spiral.

Silly how easily the eye/mind is fooled, isn't it?


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post #92 of 390 Old 11-13-2013, 05:29 PM
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But there is no ghosting

Did you have an opportunity to look for it? One way to mask ghosting in a demonstration would be to simply not show content that would reveal it (scenes with high contrast and a lot of depth).
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post #93 of 390 Old 11-13-2013, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
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But there is no ghosting

Did you have an opportunity to look for it? One way to mask ghosting in a demonstration would be to simply not show content that would reveal it (scenes with high contrast and a lot of depth).

Yeah I sure did look for it. They played what I asked, namely scenes from Life of Pi as well as Avengers in native 3D. We also checked out some of Hugo, which is an industry-standard of sorts for testing that kind of stuff. Both artifacts bother me a lot and I'm quite sensitive, hence my personal decision to go with passive 3D at home. Ghosting and crosstalk are not issues with Ultra-D 3D, that's why I said I could watch it all day long.

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post #94 of 390 Old 11-13-2013, 05:38 PM
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Thanks, that's great to hear!
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post #95 of 390 Old 11-14-2013, 01:01 PM
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Some eyes are easier to fool than others IMO.
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post #96 of 390 Old 11-14-2013, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Some eyes are easier to fool than others IMO.

All TV technologies rely on fooling the eye and tricking the mind into seeing an image.


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post #97 of 390 Old 11-14-2013, 02:10 PM
 
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Some eyes are easier to fool than others IMO.
I hope my eyes are easily fooled.
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post #98 of 390 Old 11-15-2013, 02:02 AM
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Some eyes are easier to fool than others IMO.
I hope my eyes are easily fooled.

Exactly. It's terrible when you are sitting at home with your new toy and a poorly designed magic trick starts to unravel to the point of distraction.
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post #99 of 390 Old 11-15-2013, 02:27 AM
 
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Exactly. It's terrible when you are sitting at home with your new toy and a poorly designed magic trick starts to unravel to the point of distraction.

Yes. I do hope that whatever this new technology does works without us seeing the gears turning. I have trouble thinking that it can do it.

I hope I am able to enjoy this new technology to the same capacity as everyone else. (for example: I know that for some DLPs are not good because they are more sensitive to RBEs than other people.)
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post #100 of 390 Old 11-15-2013, 05:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Some eyes are easier to fool than others IMO.
I hope my eyes are easily fooled.

Exactly. It's terrible when you are sitting at home with your new toy and a poorly designed magic trick starts to unravel to the point of distraction.

I concur. I hate kids birthday parties. Now, back to the topic...


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post #101 of 390 Old 11-15-2013, 09:23 AM
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I know what the prices are because I founded the company.
After 84 inches, we will have 110.

Give me a 84" or 110" glasses-free 3D high resolution T.V. (1080p will do) as good as stated in this thread for $15,000 or less and you have a sale! I'm trying not to get my hopes up too high. The big problem I see is timing -- as a long time member of this forum I've heard promise after promise about new groundbreaking technology being released soon only to never hear about it again. If it did get released, it was years after it was promised and it seldom lived up to the hype. It's hard not to be cynical, but I'll keep hoping.
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post #102 of 390 Old 11-15-2013, 10:31 AM
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Yes, but can I tilt my head or lay on the couch watching at 90 deg to the picture?

Hmm...
Based on what we already know, I think not..
If anyone get to experience this tech again, please try to tilt your head.

It also must be half the resolution as with lenticular lenses TV.
Because each pixel can't show left and right picture at the same time, or can it?
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post #103 of 390 Old 11-15-2013, 01:05 PM
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8K OLED (4K to each eye in glasses-free 3D) at 110"? I'll probably be in a box before I could afford it, but someone reading this will have it in their homes one day, and it will be "normal." I have faith! biggrin.gif

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post #104 of 390 Old 11-16-2013, 04:05 AM
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Give me a 84" or 110" glasses-free 3D high resolution T.V. (1080p will do) as good as stated in this thread for $15,000 or less and you have a sale! I'm trying not to get my hopes up too high. The big problem I see is timing -- as a long time member of this forum I've heard promise after promise about new groundbreaking technology being released soon only to never hear about it again. If it did get released, it was years after it was promised and it seldom lived up to the hype. It's hard not to be cynical, but I'll keep hoping.

I know I'm to optimistic but I want to believe that the price will be lower than that. :p mathu rajan said that when prices are announced the projectors would be obsolete.

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post #105 of 390 Old 11-16-2013, 04:11 AM
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Mathu Rajan the idea is to release first the 50 and 55 inch, than later the 65 and 84, and after that the 110 inch?

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post #106 of 390 Old 11-16-2013, 01:04 PM
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I'm hopeful about this technology, too. My biggest fear in terms of image quality is that contrast will be sub-par, especially for 2D. But I have a 3D LCD projector at the moment (Epson 5030). If this new type of display can match the Epson's contrast, and comes in at a cost that won't break the bank, I'm in. After experiencing 3D on my passive 3D LG LCD (used for 3D video editing), it's hard to go back to an active 3D system. The LG has its issues, but passive 3D is very easy on the eyes. It feels more natural and it's brighter. I think 3D (especially if it's sufficiently bright) by its very nature "multiplies" the apparent contrast of a scene. The contrast weakness of LCDs is most apparent for 2D viewing.

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post #107 of 390 Old 11-17-2013, 02:20 PM
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Exactly. It's terrible when you are sitting at home with your new toy and a poorly designed magic trick starts to unravel to the point of distraction.

Yes. I do hope that whatever this new technology does works without us seeing the gears turning. I have trouble thinking that it can do it.

I hope I am able to enjoy this new technology to the same capacity as everyone else. (for example: I know that for some DLPs are not good because they are more sensitive to RBEs than other people.)

Yes. The TVs we buy have expensive filters on the screens as well in the flagship models, so we also have to see how this technology adds or subtracts to this. Will need to get info from real at home viewings before this type of data likely comes out though.
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post #108 of 390 Old 11-18-2013, 09:04 AM
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You can close one eye and still see 3d. This is more like hologram

The stereoscopic to glasses free 3d conversion is incredible.
I found this in another thread and thought that was interesting. Imagic, you saw it?
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post #109 of 390 Old 11-18-2013, 10:50 AM
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That's delusional! rolleyes.gif

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post #110 of 390 Old 11-18-2013, 11:01 AM
 
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That's delusional! rolleyes.gif
That's what I thought. It's like hearing stereo with one ear. Isn't that so?
Can there depth perception with one eye?

Or is there something else that this technique displays that we need to see to understand its value?

Does seem odd, although some whose words here are often valuable seem to see value.
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post #111 of 390 Old 11-18-2013, 11:09 AM
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That's what I thought. It's like hearing stereo with one ear. Isn't that so?

Exactly. You can't see stereoscopic 3D, or a hologram, with only one eye. The brain needs both images to perceive depth. If this is an actual quote from Mr. Rajan, it represents a misunderstanding of how human vision works. I feel a retraction coming. smile.gif

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post #112 of 390 Old 11-18-2013, 11:22 AM
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Exactly. You can't see stereoscopic 3D, or a hologram, with only one eye. The brain needs both images to perceive depth. If this is an actual quote from Mr. Rajan, it represents a misunderstanding of how human vision works. I feel a retraction coming. smile.gif

Yes you can see depth with 1 eye. Not 3D as you have with 2 eyes but you try to close one eye and and tell me that you can't say if something is in front of another. 

Also i'm pretty sure what he wants to say is, that if you move, the image on the TV changes and moves like a real image. Again I say you to close one eye and try to see two objects that are one further than the other, if you pay attention you will see that the further object will move less then the closest one. That's the idea of an hologram that Maju wants to transmit to us. 

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post #113 of 390 Old 11-18-2013, 11:41 AM
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Yes you can see depth with 1 eye. Not 3D as you have with 2 eyes but you try to close one eye and and tell me that you can't say if something is in front of another. 
Also i'm pretty sure what he wants to say is, that if you move, the image on the TV changes and moves like a real image. Again I say you to close one eye and try to see two objects that are one further than the other, if you pay attention you will see that the further object will move less then the closest one. That's the idea of an hologram that Maju wants to transmit to us. 

Even a person with vision in only one eye can pick up on depth clues to figure out which objects are in front of others. But what the brain does when it fuses two images (left eye/right eye) is different. Closing one eye prevents a person from perceiving 3D based on the 2.5-3" offset of human eyes. Closing one eye by definition gives you monocular vision, forcing you to perceive "depth" only with other spatial clues.

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post #114 of 390 Old 11-18-2013, 11:51 AM
 
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You're both right. What does this device do?

My brain is in stasis on the subject.
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post #115 of 390 Old 11-18-2013, 12:13 PM
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This is a silly conversation. Human stereo vision is based on the evolutionary ability of the brain to fuse two images so that we perceive depth in a unique way. It's not the only way to figure out which objects are in front of others, but the stereoscopic 3D experience (by definitiion, with two eyes) is different from all the others. When you close one eye, you eliminate stereoscopic vision and the uniquely beautiful view of our world that it gives you. This new technology cannot have the magical ability to restore 3D vision to a person with only one good eye. But the quote from Mr. Rajan implies just such a capability.

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post #116 of 390 Old 11-18-2013, 12:33 PM
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This is a silly conversation. Human stereo vision is based on the evolutionary ability of the brain to fuse two images so that we perceive depth in a unique way. It's not the only way to figure out which objects are in front of others, but the stereoscopic 3D experience (by definitiion, with two eyes) is different from all the others. When you close one eye, you eliminate stereoscopic vision and the uniquely beautiful view of our world that it gives you. This new technology cannot have the magical ability to restore 3D vision to a person with only one good eye. But the quote from Mr. Rajan implies just such a capability.

You can't see 3D with with only one eye, it's impossible. What you can have it's a idea of depth, but it's not 3D, it's what Rajan compared to holografic image. I'm sure what he wanted to say was that with only one eye you can have the idea of depth because the things that are near move more when you move to the sides and the ones that are further, or some kind of trick like that.

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post #117 of 390 Old 11-18-2013, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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This is a silly conversation. Human stereo vision is based on the evolutionary ability of the brain to fuse two images so that we perceive depth in a unique way. It's not the only way to figure out which objects are in front of others, but the stereoscopic 3D experience (by definitiion, with two eyes) is different from all the others. When you close one eye, you eliminate stereoscopic vision and the uniquely beautiful view of our world that it gives you. This new technology cannot have the magical ability to restore 3D vision to a person with only one good eye. But the quote from Mr. Rajan implies just such a capability.

What Mr. Rajan was saying is that a person with mono vision can move their head and they will see "around" objects in the scene, a bit like looking at a hologram. With standard stereo 3D, a one-eyed viewer will see nothing but a flat scene.

 

Human stereo vision is only effective to about 20 feet, beyond that you use other means to deduce 3D. That includes most landscapes and architecture. The Grand Canyon looks the same if you have one eye or two eyes.

One the issue of whether 3D stereo vision can be experienced through one eye, a recent study indicates that it may in fact be possible. Therefore I don't think it's a silly conversation.

Quote:
"Dr Vishwanath said: "We have demonstrated experimentally, for the first time, that the same 'special way' in which depth is experienced in 3D movies can also be experienced by looking at a normal picture with one eye viewing through a small aperture (circular hole).

While this effect has been known for a long time, it is usually dismissed. Now we have shown that it is in fact real, and the perceptual results are exactly like stereoscopic 3D, the kind seen in 3D movies. Based on this finding, we have provided a new hypothesis of what the actual cause of the 3D experience might be." source: BBC

Finally, take a look at this video:

 

and this one...


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post #118 of 390 Old 11-18-2013, 12:59 PM
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Here's the original question:

"I have one eye that is stronger then the other. As a result I cannot see 3D as it exists today. I am wondering if this technology will allow me to see 3D?"

Here's the response from Mr. Rajan:

"You can close one eye and still see 3d. This is more like hologram"

If you close one eye in real life, you will see a flat image. If you close one eye while watching regular stereoscopic 3D, you will see a flat image. If you close one eye while looking at a hologram, you will see a flat image. I have a friend who is completely blind in one eye. My dad has macular degeneration and is blind in one eye. Neither of them can perceive the world in 3D the way I do, yet they both walk around without bumping into things. What bothers me about Mr. Rajan's response is the suggestion that the questioner will now be able to perceive things the way a fully sighted person does. If the individual has some vision in the weak eye, the tech may help him see 3D a little better, but the notion that a single eye can perceive stereoscopic 3D is flat out wrong.

I have high hopes for this technology, but Mr. Rajan does himself and his cause a disservice when he responds to a question in this way. It's deceptive.

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post #119 of 390 Old 11-18-2013, 01:11 PM
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Optical illusions notwithstanding, if you use two eyes, each of those eyes can see parts of things that are behind closer objects, because of the offset. One eye cannot perceive the parts of an object that are completely obscured from view. We can infer them, but we can't actually see them. That perception of the real world is a function of the brain having access to all the visual information from both eyes.

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post #120 of 390 Old 11-18-2013, 01:32 PM
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When the AVser's visit soon, we will get to see if they can see the image in 3D with one eye closed and get a few more data points. Very intersted to hear back about how this one goes.

Anyone know when the new demo promised above is scheduled to happen?
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