Sony PlayStation 4 Pre-Launch Previews and Reviews - Page 5 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #121 of 155 Old 11-17-2013, 01:21 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
bd2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,863
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 466 Post(s)
Liked: 1468
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle la la View Post

Well maybe I missed something but I have 3 PS3's none of which are used for gaming (being a PC gamer), and use them for everything else including 3D movies. I know at least 4 people that use their PS3 for CD's, BD, MP3 etc. etc. and consider the gaming just an added bonus.

I'm not surprised to hear that. The PS3 was pitched as the "it only does everything" box, and that was really compelling back then. It was the best and most affordable blu ray player for years, also a high quality DVD player, one of the first video streamers, etc. That made it a big hit with the A/V crowd, even if you don't play games.

It's only natural to assume the PS4 would be all that and more, but it was pitched as a fundamentally different product. They kept the focus 100% on games from day one. And I think they made the right choice. Nowadays all of that can be had with a $99 BD player, or an even cheaper roku if you don't need BD. Other than 4K (which barely exists yet) there isn't even anything A/V wise on the market that a PS3 can't handle.

So even if it had all that stuff day one, it still wouldn't be a compelling product to non-gamers.

Steam/PSN/Xbox Live: Darius510
bd2003 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #122 of 155 Old 11-17-2013, 01:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
STEELERSRULE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: North Western PA
Posts: 2,864
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 16
That is a good point fierce_gt. There are SO MANY devices that have all these features, that they become redundant to most people.

I just wished they would make an extra quality HDTV, without all the extra garbage. I know I can find one in the off brands, but they are "usually" not all that reliable(not always).

Or if they drop a lot of the BS(apps), they usually drop the TV down to like 2 HDMI inputs, which too me is pointless. Need at least 3, but 4-5 would be better(along with at least 1 component).

Maybe Sony is going that route with the PS4? Maybe they realize that most of these apps are redundant to their consumer base, so lets concentrate more on the games/Blu-ray before anything else?

Let's just make a Super gaming system?
STEELERSRULE is offline  
post #123 of 155 Old 11-17-2013, 02:19 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
bd2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,863
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 466 Post(s)
Liked: 1468
Quote:
Originally Posted by STEELERSRULE View Post

That is a good point fierce_gt. There are SO MANY devices that have all these features, that they become redundant to most people.

I just wished they would make an extra quality HDTV, without all the extra garbage. I know I can find one in the off brands, but they are "usually" not all that reliable(not always).

Or if they drop a lot of the BS(apps), they usually drop the TV down to like 2 HDMI inputs, which too me is pointless. Need at least 3, but 4-5 would be better(along with at least 1 component).

Maybe Sony is going that route with the PS4? Maybe they realize that most of these apps are redundant to their consumer base, so lets concentrate more on the games/Blu-ray before anything else?

Let's just make a Super gaming system?

Yep. And that message has clearly resonated with the gaming community. This time around its Microsoft that's pushing the one box to rule them all strategy. And I think the Xbox one will be even more disappointing on that front because they set higher expectations, but we'll save that for next week. smile.gif

Steam/PSN/Xbox Live: Darius510
bd2003 is online now  
post #124 of 155 Old 11-17-2013, 02:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
fierce_gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,642
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 908 Post(s)
Liked: 979
the strategies and market goals are clearly set. now the question is which console can best deliver on those promises?

will the ps4 actually be a better gaming console?
will the xbox one actually integrate seamlessly with current a/v gear?

I do believe I will personally end up with whatever console does the best gaming for me(which means offline gaming), but if it's as close as it should be, the deciding factor could be that the xbox has more bells and whistles(if they work), or more likely what console has the best exclusives. course, I still can't rule out the possibility I won't like the ps4 controller anymore than the ps3 one, and that could honestly trump all.

can't wait to start hearing reviews from the gamers and non-gamers alike. I've seen enough about what's better on paper, or what theoretically can do more. now I want to start hearing real world experiences

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
fierce_gt is online now  
post #125 of 155 Old 11-17-2013, 03:52 PM
Advanced Member
 
darkedgex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: WA
Posts: 734
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

the ps3 just kind of fell into that market segment AFTER price reductions, and deals on used ones could be found. I don't think many ppl spent 600bux for a launch console to use a bd player. and that was when bd players cost 400bux and up and didn't have built in wifi and media streaming support. now you can get that for about 100bux

Actually the first BD players cost over $1000 when they launched, and the PS3 was one of the more inexpensive players by comparison. Ironically it was also the most powerful BD players for years after launch. So no, the PS3 didn't "fall" into that segment, it started and stayed there for a very long part of its life.

As to including media playback functionality making it competitive against devices dedicated to that, I think you're wrong on the assumption that it must mean a price drop. Those are "value added" features, and people tend to be willing to pay more to have them all in one device (instead of having four or five things hooked to their TV or AVR, they only have to have one, MAYBE two).

I think Sony will, in the long term, address this. I really don't see how they can't and not expect resistance to their console.
vinnie97 likes this.

Fight mediocrity: Insist on BD50 discs for all movies longer than 100 minutes, optimized video encodes that fully utilize the available space, lossless audio track, and new masters for catalog titles!
darkedgex is offline  
post #126 of 155 Old 11-17-2013, 04:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
comfynumb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Northeast PA.
Posts: 4,804
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Believe it or not, the gaming subforums on AVS are usually more civilized than the rest of the forum. Probably because bans are handed out like candy at even the slightest hint of trolling or bickering over there. 

There's a ton of good info on the PS4 in the playstation subforum right now, especially the main PS4 thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/f/142/playstation-area  



Great thanks bd.
comfynumb is offline  
post #127 of 155 Old 11-17-2013, 06:05 PM
Member
 
ffrcoupe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I have three streaming boxes in my setup now.

I use the PS3 for watching YouTube videos, an Apple TV for streaming from my phone, and a WDTV Live for all other streaming. I guess I could use my A/V receiver as well but don't.

At first, I thought I could use one device for all my on-line and NAS streaming but have realized that it's all about the apps that each one will run.

I like the PS3 YouTube app the best. The WDTV Live will stream any file format from my NAS, and the Apple TV has a nice music interface.

It would be nice if there were one device to handle all my streaming wants but it just does not exist.

It's not that big a deal to switch between devices for different types of streaming especially since I just bought, but have yet to receive, a brand new Harmony Ultimate. biggrin.gif

I don't see the PS4 replacing any of these devices (cept maybe the PS3) anytime soon.
ffrcoupe is offline  
post #128 of 155 Old 11-18-2013, 05:13 AM
Senior Member
 
dukedallas2005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Newburgh, NY
Posts: 335
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 25
My PS3 was my entertainment hub in my dedicated theater room. I had2 TB hard drive connected to it and was able to do picture slide shows, play music, watch movies play online for free with all the cheaters in Madden LOL... This PS4 is just a big step backwards SONY is getting too greedy. I'm probably just gonna sell this thing not impressed...yes the graphics are 2x better but come on theyve released a shell of a machine, I'll pick it up next year if some of these early things change. DISAPPOINTED mad.gif
dukedallas2005 is offline  
post #129 of 155 Old 11-18-2013, 08:26 AM
Member
 
jmaccool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: CA
Posts: 97
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Because they had to rewrite the entire OS from scratch. It's a ridiculous amount of work to do. They're struggling as a company and probably couldn't dedicate as much resources to it as they wanted to. 

http://www.neowin.net/news/sony-to-add-audio-cd-mp3-and-dlna-support-to-ps4-after-launch

Sure, it's a selling point to a specific audience, but they're selling like crazy to gamers as it is.  When it eventually becomes HT friendly, I'm sure the HT crowd will be ready and waiting.


Struggling, are you kidding me? The people on this site that buy this machine are probably struggling far more than Sony could even being to imagine and I would not call anyone that can afford this machine as struggling, disposable income. I love when people come to the rescue of a major corporation like Sony, unbelievable. Hurting, really!!!????
dukedallas2005 likes this.
jmaccool is offline  
post #130 of 155 Old 11-18-2013, 09:10 AM
Senior Member
 
Exist_To_Resist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 363
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

If there's any one thing that's getting universal praise, it's the dual shock 4.  I used it for some time, and it truly is a radical improvement over the PS3 controller. The triggers feel excellent, better than the Xbox 360 controller. It's feels bigger, sticks are much further apart, tighter, have a nice concave dimple, a good rubbery texture and the dead zone is almost entirely gone. It's just as comfortable as the 360 controller if not more so, plus it's much lighter and there's no need to swap batteries. I guarantee it won't hurt your hands, they've gone back to the drawing board and answered every criticism about the dual shock 3. It's damn near the perfect controller, certainly the best I've ever held. I personally would have preferred if the sticks were as loose as the DS3, but I can live with it.

I disagree, having used the PS4 controller that is not the case for me. It is still an ergonomically incorrect controller. Yes the sticks are further apart, no dead zone and the triggers are improved, however the analog sticks are still too close to the bottom and outside of the controller. I find the DS4 controller just as uncomfortable as the DS3 controller, it still stresses the opponens pollicis too much. The only system with the true ergonomic controller is the Wii U Pro Conrtoller, only problem with it is the fact that the analogs are convex, not concave.

Exist_To_Resist is online now  
post #131 of 155 Old 11-18-2013, 10:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Devedander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,150
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exist_To_Resist View Post

I disagree, having used the PS4 controller that is not the case for me. It is still an ergonomically incorrect controller. Yes the sticks are further apart, no dead zone and the triggers are improved, however the analog sticks are still too close to the bottom and outside of the controller. I find the DS4 controller just as uncomfortable as the DS3 controller, it still stresses the opponens pollicis too much. The only system with the true ergonomic controller is the Wii U Pro Conrtoller, only problem with it is the fact that the analogs are convex, not concave.

While I feel the DS4 is better than the DS3 (outside disappointing battery life) I still don't like the triggers at all and honestly feel the 360 controller was about as good as it gets (and honestly I find the idea of tactile feedback triggers more interesting and less gimmicky than a touch screen button on the middle of the pad). I think a large part of it is I have fairly small hands and my index fingers naturally rest on the lower triggers, but with the DS the lower triggers are located that if I have my fingers on them there isn't much support for the rest of the controller and they are too soft and spongy to be the main support (especially during fire fight when they are getting pressed maniacally). That and the raised left stick on the 360 is just so much better in my book...

I switched back to my DS3 after several hours of PS4 and it felt very odd... definitely give it to the DS4 over the DS3, but give it to the 360 controller over both....
Quote:
Originally Posted by STEELERSRULE View Post

That is a good point fierce_gt. There are SO MANY devices that have all these features, that they become redundant to most people.

I just wished they would make an extra quality HDTV, without all the extra garbage. I know I can find one in the off brands, but they are "usually" not all that reliable(not always).

Or if they drop a lot of the BS(apps), they usually drop the TV down to like 2 HDMI inputs, which too me is pointless. Need at least 3, but 4-5 would be better(along with at least 1 component).

Maybe Sony is going that route with the PS4? Maybe they realize that most of these apps are redundant to their consumer base, so lets concentrate more on the games/Blu-ray before anything else?

Let's just make a Super gaming system?

To be honest I thought this way but while watching a demo f how the XB1 handles media functionality http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhe6jV-APwM I could really see it selling a lot of people... especially the whole TV integration thing. If I had cable I would be sold on this feature alone...

While there are plenty of devices to do all the little features (and often better) the problem is average joe doesn't want to deal with a bunch of finicky devices and remembering how to switch between which ones... Having it all in one box that switches between stuff is huge for a lot of people. Heck it's even huge for me - not even because I care about not dealing with a bunch of finicky devices but just because it's slick.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out... on paper the PS4s power advantage over the 360 seems like a huge trump card, but in day to day performance I have seen it time and time again, the overall nicer to use, even if slightly less potent solution wins out.

After using the PS4 for several hours I can only say Sony is horrible at designing UI... it's miles ahead of the PS3 XMB and it's miles behind even the original 360 Dashboard. Xbox1 dashboard and integration is looking really sweet and honestly I think looks like it might bring a lot of the advanced HT experience into peoples houses nicely and conveniently.

Between the better controller and the (apparently) very user friendly and snappy interface I think Xbox1 looks like it might appeal to a much broader market... the one who can't tell the difference between 1440x900 and 1920x1080 from across the room on the couch as long as the game is fun... and honestly that's most people.
Exist_To_Resist likes this.

Monster Gold Plated Optical Cables: http://monstercable.com/productPage.asp?pin=1263

Awesome user review: "Unreal quality. Sounded like I upgraded my speakers." :D
Devedander is offline  
post #132 of 155 Old 11-18-2013, 11:30 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kimeran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,207
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 115
Well, Naughty Dog has teased Uncharted 4 for the PS4, that alone may make me get a PS4 over a X1 if I go ahead and get another console. So far most games that are on the X1 and PS4 will also be on the computer, atleast the ones I am interested in...

Trying to enjoy the simple things in life.

 

Steam: madbrayniak

Kimeran is offline  
post #133 of 155 Old 11-18-2013, 11:49 AM
Member
 
jmaccool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: CA
Posts: 97
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devedander View Post

While I feel the DS4 is better than the DS3 (outside disappointing battery life) I still don't like the triggers at all and honestly feel the 360 controller was about as good as it gets (and honestly I find the idea of tactile feedback triggers more interesting and less gimmicky than a touch screen button on the middle of the pad). I think a large part of it is I have fairly small hands and my index fingers naturally rest on the lower triggers, but with the DS the lower triggers are located that if I have my fingers on them there isn't much support for the rest of the controller and they are too soft and spongy to be the main support (especially during fire fight when they are getting pressed maniacally). That and the raised left stick on the 360 is just so much better in my book...

I switched back to my DS3 after several hours of PS4 and it felt very odd... definitely give it to the DS4 over the DS3, but give it to the 360 controller over both....
To be honest I thought this way but while watching a demo f how the XB1 handles media functionality http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhe6jV-APwM I could really see it selling a lot of people... especially the whole TV integration thing. If I had cable I would be sold on this feature alone...

While there are plenty of devices to do all the little features (and often better) the problem is average joe doesn't want to deal with a bunch of finicky devices and remembering how to switch between which ones... Having it all in one box that switches between stuff is huge for a lot of people. Heck it's even huge for me - not even because I care about not dealing with a bunch of finicky devices but just because it's slick.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out... on paper the PS4s power advantage over the 360 seems like a huge trump card, but in day to day performance I have seen it time and time again, the overall nicer to use, even if slightly less potent solution wins out.

After using the PS4 for several hours I can only say Sony is horrible at designing UI... it's miles ahead of the PS3 XMB and it's miles behind even the original 360 Dashboard. Xbox1 dashboard and integration is looking really sweet and honestly I think looks like it might bring a lot of the advanced HT experience into peoples houses nicely and conveniently.

Between the better controller and the (apparently) very user friendly and snappy interface I think Xbox1 looks like it might appeal to a much broader market... the one who can't tell the difference between 1440x900 and 1920x1080 from across the room on the couch as long as the game is fun... and honestly that's most people.

You are coming across as an Xbox fanboy, no big. However having an all in one magical box that allows control of everything is called a receiver or pre-amp...not a new concept other than voice controls which could be buggy. I can also bet that the X-1 will have issues controlling everything thrown at it, I doubt it will be finicky free as you state, however time will tell. Then again it is a Microsoft product and we all know how well their stuff is made these days.
jmaccool is offline  
post #134 of 155 Old 11-18-2013, 01:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
joevfx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

No, it currently doesn't support extended color spaces, but no game or video content outside of Sony camcorders ever used it properly (so good riddance to a useless option). "Superwhite" is seemingly always enabled (as it should be.)

Should I be setting the RGB and other setting to FULL or auto? Some games seem to look washed out to me. I have sonys kds A3000.
joevfx is offline  
post #135 of 155 Old 11-18-2013, 01:42 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
bd2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,863
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 466 Post(s)
Liked: 1468
Quote:
Originally Posted by joevfx View Post

Should I be setting the RGB and other setting to FULL or auto? Some games seem to look washed out to me. I have sonys kds A3000.

Set it to the same thing your TV is set to.

Steam/PSN/Xbox Live: Darius510
bd2003 is online now  
post #136 of 155 Old 11-18-2013, 01:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
joevfx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Set it to the same thing your TV is set to.

I don't think I have those settings on my tv. I've never seen them.
joevfx is offline  
post #137 of 155 Old 11-18-2013, 02:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
fierce_gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,642
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 908 Post(s)
Liked: 979
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkedgex View Post

Actually the first BD players cost over $1000 when they launched, and the PS3 was one of the more inexpensive players by comparison. Ironically it was also the most powerful BD players for years after launch. So no, the PS3 didn't "fall" into that segment, it started and stayed there for a very long part of its life.

As to including media playback functionality making it competitive against devices dedicated to that, I think you're wrong on the assumption that it must mean a price drop. Those are "value added" features, and people tend to be willing to pay more to have them all in one device (instead of having four or five things hooked to their TV or AVR, they only have to have one, MAYBE two).

I think Sony will, in the long term, address this. I really don't see how they can't and not expect resistance to their console.

that's not exactly what i said. i paid over 800 for a 2nd gen BD player personally. but when the ps3 was launched, bd players weren't brand new, and were selling for around the same price as the cheapest version of the console.

and that's basically my point. if the ps4 is going to compete in the 'media streaming' market, it would have to cost about 100bux today. the ps3 would not have been a 'great value' as a clumsy(but powerful) bd player if it cost 4x as much as a comparable bd player.

when i say it 'fell into' that segment, i stick by that. the reason it was more powerful is because it needed that to play games. sony did not add any hardware to make it better at streaming, or media playback. it had a bd drive ONLY because it's games required it. it was not the sole intent of the ps3 to be the best bd player for the money. they sold them as gaming consoles, and that was the reason they were so cheap. consoles don't have to make money on the hardware, because they make money on the accessories and the software. when the ps3 was launched, it was a loss-leader.

the market has changed. media streaming, bd playback, etc is CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP now. they can not be the main reason you spend 400+ on a new device anymore. yes, 'value added' is a great way to put it. it may be the reason you pay 500 instead of 400, or the reason you buy a ps4 instead of an xbox, or maybe the reason you don't buy an appletv, but it will not be the reason you buy a ps4 instead of an oppo 103d, or instead of a WDTV or roku, etc. you only buy a ps4 if you want the gaming, that's the only way to justify the price.

it made sense to spend 600bux on a ps3 instead of 500-600 on a bd player, and never buy a single game.
it doesn't make sense to spend 400 on a ps4 instead of 75-100 on a bd player, and never buy a single game.
that is why i don't think the ps4 is targeting a/v enthusiasts, and paying as much attention as possible to the gamers.

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
fierce_gt is online now  
post #138 of 155 Old 11-18-2013, 02:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
fierce_gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,642
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 908 Post(s)
Liked: 979
Quote:
Originally Posted by ffrcoupe View Post

I have three streaming boxes in my setup now.

I use the PS3 for watching YouTube videos, an Apple TV for streaming from my phone, and a WDTV Live for all other streaming. I guess I could use my A/V receiver as well but don't.

At first, I thought I could use one device for all my on-line and NAS streaming but have realized that it's all about the apps that each one will run.

I like the PS3 YouTube app the best. The WDTV Live will stream any file format from my NAS, and the Apple TV has a nice music interface.

It would be nice if there were one device to handle all my streaming wants but it just does not exist.

It's not that big a deal to switch between devices for different types of streaming especially since I just bought, but have yet to receive, a brand new Harmony Ultimate. biggrin.gif

I don't see the PS4 replacing any of these devices (cept maybe the PS3) anytime soon.

you sound like a good candidate for a HTPC...

i have used a WDTV(didn't actually connect with my network for some reason so had to return it), appletv(hacked to make it useful without itunes), xbox360, xbox, and ps3 for streaming at one time or another. i can honestly say that every one of them is less functional than a basic HTPC. and i don't mean in versatility, i mean that one thing that the appletv does well, the htpc does a little bit better, and the one thing the ps3 does well, the htpc does just a little bit better.

for the price of all those devices, you could definitely put together a capable little rig.

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
fierce_gt is online now  
post #139 of 155 Old 11-18-2013, 02:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
fierce_gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,642
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 908 Post(s)
Liked: 979
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exist_To_Resist View Post

I disagree, having used the PS4 controller that is not the case for me. It is still an ergonomically incorrect controller. Yes the sticks are further apart, no dead zone and the triggers are improved, however the analog sticks are still too close to the bottom and outside of the controller. I find the DS4 controller just as uncomfortable as the DS3 controller, it still stresses the opponens pollicis too much. The only system with the true ergonomic controller is the Wii U Pro Conrtoller, only problem with it is the fact that the analogs are convex, not concave.

how do you compare the ds4 to the xbox 360 controller?

i get severe hand pain with the ps3 controllers, but not with the 360 ones. i believe it's because of the joystick position, how slippery they are, and the triggers being more on top of the controller instead of behind.

not sure what to expect with the ds4

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
fierce_gt is online now  
post #140 of 155 Old 11-18-2013, 02:12 PM
AVS Special Member
 
fierce_gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,642
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 908 Post(s)
Liked: 979
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devedander View Post


To be honest I thought this way but while watching a demo f how the XB1 handles media functionality http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhe6jV-APwM I could really see it selling a lot of people... especially the whole TV integration thing. If I had cable I would be sold on this feature alone...

While there are plenty of devices to do all the little features (and often better) the problem is average joe doesn't want to deal with a bunch of finicky devices and remembering how to switch between which ones... Having it all in one box that switches between stuff is huge for a lot of people. Heck it's even huge for me - not even because I care about not dealing with a bunch of finicky devices but just because it's slick.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out... on paper the PS4s power advantage over the 360 seems like a huge trump card, but in day to day performance I have seen it time and time again, the overall nicer to use, even if slightly less potent solution wins out.

After using the PS4 for several hours I can only say Sony is horrible at designing UI... it's miles ahead of the PS3 XMB and it's miles behind even the original 360 Dashboard. Xbox1 dashboard and integration is looking really sweet and honestly I think looks like it might bring a lot of the advanced HT experience into peoples houses nicely and conveniently.

Between the better controller and the (apparently) very user friendly and snappy interface I think Xbox1 looks like it might appeal to a much broader market... the one who can't tell the difference between 1440x900 and 1920x1080 from across the room on the couch as long as the game is fun... and honestly that's most people.

my comments were addressed specifically to the ps4... i do think the xbox one has a better chance of being the 'media center' for some ppl.

but i'm still concerned the xbox one can not handle a serious home theatre set up. even a modest one could be too complicated. i mean, one hdmi input? that means it's gonna need some help to handle all sources

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
fierce_gt is online now  
post #141 of 155 Old 11-18-2013, 03:24 PM
Senior Member
 
Exist_To_Resist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 363
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

how do you compare the ds4 to the xbox 360 controller?

i get severe hand pain with the ps3 controllers, but not with the 360 ones. i believe it's because of the joystick position, how slippery they are, and the triggers being more on top of the controller instead of behind.

not sure what to expect with the ds4

Honestly, it's all personal preference.
You would have to try it for yourself. My suggestion go into a BestBuy and hang out for about an hour and play around with the PS4 and the DS4 controller.
Some people love the new controllers, me I loved the original Xbox controller, it was the most comfortable controller ever.

Exist_To_Resist is online now  
post #142 of 155 Old 11-18-2013, 03:25 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
bd2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,863
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 466 Post(s)
Liked: 1468
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

my comments were addressed specifically to the ps4... i do think the xbox one has a better chance of being the 'media center' for some ppl.

but i'm still concerned the xbox one can not handle a serious home theatre set up. even a modest one could be too complicated. i mean, one hdmi input? that means it's gonna need some help to handle all sources

The only thing they care for you to hook up to that port is your cable box. Other than that, what else would you need? It plays blurays and streams everything. Surely you wouldn't need to own any other consoles? tongue.gif

Steam/PSN/Xbox Live: Darius510
bd2003 is online now  
post #143 of 155 Old 11-18-2013, 03:30 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
bd2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,863
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 466 Post(s)
Liked: 1468
Quote:
Originally Posted by joevfx View Post

I don't think I have those settings on my tv. I've never seen them.

Lucky for you I have the exact same TV. It's under video options/RGB dynamic range.

Steam/PSN/Xbox Live: Darius510
bd2003 is online now  
post #144 of 155 Old 11-18-2013, 04:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
joevfx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Lucky for you I have the exact same TV. It's under video options/RGB dynamic range.

Sweet!! so what are the best settings for the tv and the ps4?
joevfx is offline  
post #145 of 155 Old 11-18-2013, 04:45 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
bd2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,863
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 466 Post(s)
Liked: 1468
Quote:
Originally Posted by joevfx View Post

Sweet!! so what are the best settings for the tv and the ps4?

Doesn't really matter to be honest. Full is the slightest bit better technically, limited is the video standard. I personally stick with limited.

Steam/PSN/Xbox Live: Darius510
bd2003 is online now  
post #146 of 155 Old 11-19-2013, 06:10 AM
Advanced Member
 
darkedgex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: WA
Posts: 734
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

i paid over 800 for a 2nd gen BD player personally. but when the ps3 was launched, bd players weren't brand new, and were selling for around the same price as the cheapest version of the console.
Blu-ray Disc launched in June of 2006. PS3 launched in November, just five months later. I'd say BD players were still "brand new" considering that short time span. I think you're still a little off on your prices, the PS3 was the cheapest BD player for quite some time.
Quote:
and that's basically my point. if the ps4 is going to compete in the 'media streaming' market, it would have to cost about 100bux today. the ps3 would not have been a 'great value' as a clumsy(but powerful) bd player if it cost 4x as much as a comparable bd player.
If all the PS4 did was "media streaming", then you and I would agree that the price would need to be "100bux". However, that's not all the PS4 does, and certainly not all it would bring to the table; "media streaming" for the PS4 would be a value-add. When you add something of value to a product, you can generally charge more (or at the very least, trumpet your features over your competitors features). The PS4 needed media capabilities for numerous reasons:
  1. To maintain parity with the PS3 (this would draw in owners of the older hardware know that the newer hardware would be at least as capable as the device they're replacing it with)
  2. To remain competitive with the Xbox One (which does, as far as I know, have media capabilities; so much so that it has an HDMI input so you can route your cable/dish service through the Xbox and overlay information provided by the Xbox over whatever you're watching)
Quote:
when i say it 'fell into' that segment, i stick by that. the reason it was more powerful is because it needed that to play games. sony did not add any hardware to make it better at streaming, or media playback. it had a bd drive ONLY because it's games required it. it was not the sole intent of the ps3 to be the best bd player for the money. they sold them as gaming consoles, and that was the reason they were so cheap. consoles don't have to make money on the hardware, because they make money on the accessories and the software. when the ps3 was launched, it was a loss-leader.
Okay, so what is your rationale for adding media streaming/playback features to the PS3? Ignore Blu-ray Disc for a second; what benefit for Sony was there in allowing PS3 owners to have MP3 playback, H.264 playback (eventually Divx/Xvid support) and the media streaming/DLNA? If it was just a game console, why those features for the PS3 but not for the PS4?

And bringing Blu-ray Disc back into the picture for a minute; don't you see that Sony was engaging in a two pronged battle during 2006-2007? On the one hand they were up against Microsoft over the console war for that generation. On the other hand they were up against a conglomerate of companies (Microsoft, Toshiba, etc) backing HD DVD. The PS3 was the perfect "in" for them to push Blu-ray Disc over HD DVD and an excellent value-add for gamers looking for one device that could do it all. You are right that the PS3 was a loss leader, and Sony made their money back on the software side, but you're neglecting the Blu-ray Disc software side of it. Don't doubt for a second that Sony didn't make bank on licensing Blu-ray Disc technologies/patents to businesses looking to produce discs and players.

The only thing that's changed with the launch of the PS4 is Sony isn't pushing a new physical media format, so there's likely a little less effort on their part to push the media capabilities. I still say they're of value though (and certainly Microsoft seems to see value in them).
Quote:
the market has changed. media streaming, bd playback, etc is CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP now. they can not be the main reason you spend 400+ on a new device anymore. yes, 'value added' is a great way to put it. it may be the reason you pay 500 instead of 400, or the reason you buy a ps4 instead of an xbox, or maybe the reason you don't buy an appletv, but it will not be the reason you buy a ps4 instead of an oppo 103d, or instead of a WDTV or roku, etc. you only buy a ps4 if you want the gaming, that's the only way to justify the price.
Here again we disagree. I absolutely agree that you don't buy a PS4 if you JUST want streaming. But in my personal case, I want it all, like I had with my PS3. I don't own a WDTV or Roku, and haven't had a reason to get an Oppo either. The PS3 for me did everything I really needed. The PS4 doesn't.

I was expecting a fully featured gaming machine. I was aware my PS3 titles (digital and physical) wouldn't work on the PS4, but I never imagined Sony would hobble themselves with something as benign as media playback/streaming. It's a no-brainer. And it's not like the hardware in the PS4 can't support it. Heck, the PS4 is fully capable of doing H.265/4K decoding, so I was actually hoping for a more feature rich media experience alongside my gaming.

And while I didn't own a PS2, the history there kind of supports the media capabilities. The PS2 was also a very functional DVD player and helped propel DVD adoption in the United States (DVD rentals only overtook VHS rentals in 2003, three years after the PS2 launched).
Quote:
it made sense to spend 600bux on a ps3 instead of 500-600 on a bd player, and never buy a single game.
it doesn't make sense to spend 400 on a ps4 instead of 75-100 on a bd player, and never buy a single game.
that is why i don't think the ps4 is targeting a/v enthusiasts, and paying as much attention as possible to the gamers.
Again what you're missing is the diversity factor: Sony would get wider adoption with the PS4 if it had the same or better media capabilities as the PS3. No, nobody should buy a PS4 if they don't intend to game with it; we're far from the heady days of 2006 when the PS3 was the best game in town for Blu-ray Disc playback and/or HD video gaming. But that doesn't make those features less desirable for folks looking to simplify their entertainment setup (and maybe save a few bucks by being able to skip the WDTV/Roku box or a more expensive multifunction BD player).

I'm still confident Sony will add these features eventually, I think they're just trying to push Video Unlimited and Music Unlimited right now, it's just disappointing to see them do it at the expense of alienating folks looking for a similar experience as they had on their PS3.
vinnie97 and Taranteacher like this.

Fight mediocrity: Insist on BD50 discs for all movies longer than 100 minutes, optimized video encodes that fully utilize the available space, lossless audio track, and new masters for catalog titles!
darkedgex is offline  
post #147 of 155 Old 11-19-2013, 08:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kimeran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,207
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 115
I remember the HD-DVD and Bluray battle like it was yesterday....

That might partially have to do with the part of "Tropic Thunder" where they are talking about it though....

Trying to enjoy the simple things in life.

 

Steam: madbrayniak

Kimeran is offline  
post #148 of 155 Old 11-19-2013, 11:43 AM
Advanced Member
 
VidPro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Revere, MA
Posts: 822
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 27
I haven't had time to read this whole thread yet but am I the only one who is happy Sony made a machine to play games? smile.gif

The television screen is the retina of the mind's eye.
VidPro is offline  
post #149 of 155 Old 11-19-2013, 12:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Devedander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,150
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

my comments were addressed specifically to the ps4... i do think the xbox one has a better chance of being the 'media center' for some ppl.

but i'm still concerned the xbox one can not handle a serious home theatre set up. even a modest one could be too complicated. i mean, one hdmi input? that means it's gonna need some help to handle all sources

I think the market it's driving towards is the people who don't have a serious HT... those people will want the customization and fancy high end stuff. I think they are shooting for the 60% or so (pulling numbers from my ass) that has a few boxes and hates trying to remember what remote controls what and has to call the service guy when they end up on the wrong input.

For these people you have a few major needs: TV, Disc based video, Netflix and Video games. And they don't to think about what box does what. So you only need one HDMI because the 360 covers your disc and streaming media and games and you have a cable box of some sort using that HDMI port. Average joe is not worried about the best quality BR player that decodes the super fancy audio stream and plays at weird framerates. Most people I know can't even spot 3:2 pulldown in action.

But what they DO see is that now I can be playing a game, and my buddy calls and says "DUDE SWITCH TO THE SAINTS GAME RIGHT NOW!" and I can do so just by saying it... and my game just waits for me... and then while I am watching it I can overlay a skype call to said buddy so we can both scream about the blind reff and get all excited about the next play.

Then I can just say "Xbox go to my game" and finish this race - and when the wife walks in the Xbox recognizes here and I can say "I just finished racing, do you want to watch your movie on netflix?" And she can just tell the xbox to pull up her netflix with her queue and start playing her movie all without finding a remote, figuring out what button to push or what it didn't respond and not wondering why her screen doesn't look like it did last time (because it's my profile not hers).

I know you and I are totally fine with all that with our HT receivers, multiple remotes (or maybe Harmony Remotes) etc, we can just pause, switch inputs, skype off our table etc but imagine you walk into your HT and everything is labeled in Russian, and everything is moved around... and every component looks like a piece of kitchen equipment so you can't even recognize it must be a reciever because it has a big volume dial and input buttons, and imagine someone came and hooked up all your inputs differently, and even swapped inputs on some devices so the communication chain is not what it used to be.

Imagine that's what it like EVERY time you try to do something on your HT...

This is the experience of the non tech savvy user... the average joe and soccer mom... it never gets easier. That's who I think XB1 is really targeting.

Not to mention there is no fighting over who gets the TV when her favorite show is on... just snap TV next to your game and both enjoy. I can say for myself I really like having my girl sit with me while I game, but it's not a particularly fun experience for her and sending her to the other room to watch her show splits us up... sure we can easily have two TVs in the same room or something but XB1 promises to solve that problem.

And the TV guide thing would be great for people like my aunt who constantly ends up on some weird preference list on her satellite box that shows all 999 channels instead of the 15 she likes... she would love to be able to say "what's on CBS" and have it show her.

I know that all sounds like a total advertisement from MS, but honestly, they did a good job selling all those functions because I can totally see them working for a lot of people I know.

I would probably not really use them (I don't have cable, I prefer buttons to voice control and I have no trouble juggling multiple devices, what settings they are on and analyzing what went wrong when it doesn't work like I thought) but I'll be darned if I don't see the huge market for exactly that stuff (hint it's the people who are not on AVSforum). It's the very reason Apple is so successful... it makes it possible for the average joe to have a good experience. Not the absolute most configurable best quality experience ever, but a good one and in a very user friendly way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

how do you compare the ds4 to the xbox 360 controller?

i get severe hand pain with the ps3 controllers, but not with the 360 ones. i believe it's because of the joystick position, how slippery they are, and the triggers being more on top of the controller instead of behind.

not sure what to expect with the ds4

I have always felt the DS3 failed in 3 major areas:

1 overall contour - the Xbox controllers felt like I took a piece of clay and squeezed it; they took what the DC started and ran with it, they fit into my hand very naturally, the DS3 seemed like it was made with form over function with it's harsh angles and generic geometry.

2: Triggers - the Xbox again took from the DC controller and made excellent triggers, combined with the shape of the controller it was easy to keep a stable hold on the controller with your fingers on the triggers. The bumpers also had a good tactile response. The DS3 always felt like it was hard to hold the controller stable without accidentally putting pressure on the soft/spongy triggers. Also with smaller hands the lower triggers were harder to access comfortable. This is largely due to the sticks being so low and the position it puts your hands in. I found myself driving in GT with my middle fingers on the gas and brake - not ideal. The Xbox controllers were great for driving games and felt very good for shooting games. The DS3's convex lower triggers only compounded the problem.

3: Stick position - think about how your thumbs work... they have the best endurance in the axis directly away from the knuckle, not the axis rotating around the knuckle. As your thumb rotates around it's base it does not trace a straight line, however as it extends and bends at it's join it travels in a straight line. By putting the left stick high, your left thing naturally travels up and down in a straight line well which is what the left stick does most of the time (walk forward and back) and straifing doesn't require much accuracy. Conversely the right thumb mostly turns you left and right which is the directly the thumb naturally travels in the lower position. By placing the sticks this way you put each thumb in the correct position for the job it will do most often in most games. With the DS3 (and DS4) I find the sticks are in a position where neither thumb naturally travels up/down or left/right in a nice straight line. For this reason I often find myself missing the compass points on the sticks when I try to hit dead up or down.

Ultimately I have to say that MS got ergonics theoretically right on the controller back with the Xbox S controller and has fine tuned it since. Sony has stuck to their guns and for me at least it's been an unfortunate decision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmaccool View Post

You are coming across as an Xbox fanboy, no big. However having an all in one magical box that allows control of everything is called a receiver or pre-amp...not a new concept other than voice controls which could be buggy. I can also bet that the X-1 will have issues controlling everything thrown at it, I doubt it will be finicky free as you state, however time will tell. Then again it is a Microsoft product and we all know how well their stuff is made these days.

I am a technology fan boy... whatever seems like the new cool thing catches my eye pretty easily. So I don't really hold allegiance to a brand but I am a fanboy of a certain piece of hardware pretty often: I was an Atari ST, Lynx and Jaguar fanboy, the latter of which I paid for dearly, I strongly prefered SNES over Genesis, I was amazed by the DC and the 360 Dash and XBL experience really sold me on the user experience side of things... although ultimately then I went PS3 due to a grudge against paying for XBL Gold and this round I bought a PS4 because I feel the hardware is superior and PS Plus offers more for the $$$ than XBL does, however really give credit to MS with continuing their focus on the user interaction experience - which I feel Sony is just incapable of or doesn't care about.

I dont think a reciever or pre amp quite compares to what the XB1 is touted to do or how sleekly it does it... a receiver wouldn't let you get game invites while watching TV (can't count the number of times I text my buddy "DUDE I invited you 6 times! It says you are online!" "Oh man, I left the PS3 on while watching the niners game... sorry") it doesn't let you snap TV next to your game so you and the wife dont' have to fight over who gets the TV right now, it doesn't let you overlay skype calls and audio onto whatever you are doing right now... and it doesn't do them with voice controls which honestly seems cumbersome to me, but to many people a remote might as well be the control panel for a space ship. I mean you should have seen the look on this couples face who I did an AV setup for when their comcast box flashed the caller ID of an incoming call over their TV show... it was like Jesus's second coming or something... don't underestimate the desire of the common person to have everything come together at the same time without having to think about it.

As for how it works in real life and how fast the novelty wears off... that's a very legit point... in the controlled environment of their demo video it looks GREAT. In reality? Who knows... and I am not a fan of voice control because I almost always find buttons faster but to be honest there are a lot of times where it would be nice to just say something without having to search for the remote.... I could see myself really getting used to voice control but I could even more see people who aren't very tech savvy liking it a LOT more than remotes. I mean I still run into people daily who can't figure out how to switch inputs correctly.


EDIT To drive the point home on many of the comments I responded to, I just saw this picture on a website this is the crowd XB1 will appeal to with it's integration and voice control.
Donnacha likes this.

Monster Gold Plated Optical Cables: http://monstercable.com/productPage.asp?pin=1263

Awesome user review: "Unreal quality. Sounded like I upgraded my speakers." :D
Devedander is offline  
post #150 of 155 Old 11-19-2013, 02:33 PM
Senior Member
 
Exist_To_Resist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 363
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post

PS4 is 4K & 3D ready - X1 is not....

and btw that's about half a decade away ....

Why are you spreading ********. On the contrary XB1 will be 4K ready and 3D to follow.
Where as the PS4 is neither 3d not 4K ready out of the box, that is to come with a firmware update.
Stop spreading fanboy rumour.

Exist_To_Resist is online now  
Reply Latest Industry News

Tags
Wii U , Playstation 4 Console

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off