AVS Forum banner
63K views 1K replies 128 participants last post by  PENDRAG0ON 
#1 ·

My first videogame console was an Atari 2600. When I was a kid, I remember thinking to myself, "Someday, videogame graphics will look totally realistic." With the launch of Sony and Microsoft's latest gaming machines, that childhood dream is now reality.

 



My first console was an Atari 2600

 

After a seven-year wait, fans of console gaming now have two brand-new systems to choose between. It's an impressive bit of retail-savvy timing, releasing the two platforms only a week apart—just in time for the holiday shopping season. Whereas Nintendo enjoyed success in previous generations, the Wii-U is widely considered a flop, due to extremely poor sales. In contrast, Sony's PlayStation 4 set a new record for console sales in North America. Last week, the company sold 1 million PlayStation 4 units in one day. Microsoft pulled off a similar feat, selling over one million Xbox One units in one day.

 

There's plenty to read about both systems. There are numerous reviews and comparisons. There are articles documenting hardware issues. There is some discussion about Microsoft's play for living-room dominance and Sony's laser-like focus on gaming—at the expense of features that people took for granted on the PlayStation 3. In all, there is a lot to digest, so I put together a short list of articles that could be worth a look.


I want to know, is this the true dawn of the golden era of gaming? Initial sales of these eighth-generation consoles indicate the answer is a resounding "YES!"

 



 

Twin reviews are everywhere—most major tech sites have at least one for Xbox and one for PS4. Polygon.com gives the Xbox One an 8.0 rating, while the PlayStation 4 receives a 7.5 rating. 

 
Quote:
"The Xbox One is an impressive marriage of software and hardware that raises the bar in terms of what we expect from a living-room machine. Looking forward more than it looks back, the Xbox One feels like it's from the future."   polygon.com
Quote:
"But the PlayStation 4's focus on gaming — and only gaming — is undermined by a distinct lack of compelling software. That failing is sure to improve — better games and more of them will appear on the PlayStation 4 — but right now, this is a game console without a game to recommend it. Early adopters of the PS4 this fall are buying potential energy. We're just waiting for a place to spend it." polygon.com
 

 



image from polygon.com

 



 

There are plenty of articles about the new benchmark for day-one console sales: One million units.

 
Quote:
"Not to be outdone by the  PlayStation 4 selling one million consoles in just 24 hours,  Microsoft announced today that the Xbox One also achieved the 24 hour, million console milestone."  gamespot.com
 

Demand for both consoles appears to be strong, even after the day-one rush.

 
Quote:
"Although we won't reveal the total amount of units for competitive reasons, our share was higher than on any previous console launch, and our sell-through since launch was 80% higher than the total amount of  PS3 s that we sold in our 2006 fiscal year," 


 "The value of our reservations and the additional allocation is 15% higher than the amount of  Xbox 360 s that we sold during our entire 2005 fiscal year," 


GameStop President Tony Bartel, as reported by Techradar.com
 



image from techradar.com

 



 

CNET feels it may be worth waiting before buying either console.

 
Quote:
"The bottom line: The Xbox One goes beyond gaming with its ambitious live TV integration, but at launch it can't deliver a knockout blow to the PS4 due to a higher price and uneven voice control. We suggest you wait for improvements, but for now, the Xbox One is better suited to forgiving early adopters."  CNET.com
 
Quote:
"The bottom line: The PlayStation 4's beautiful graphics, blazing interface, and near-perfect controller make it a worthy successor to the PS3, but it would be wise to wait for more titles and features before you buy."  CNET.com
 



 

There are plenty of consoles in stock at Best Buy for anyone who did not pre-order.

 
Quote:
"Based on acquired units outside of pre-orders for the PlayStation 4 and Xbox One, Best Buy is confident the company will be able to stock both next-gen consoles well through December, vice president of entertainment Chris Koller told Polygon." - Polygon.com


image from polygon.com

 



 

Of course, along with all the good news, there are occasional reports of glitches.

 
Quote:
"Stop me if you’ve heard this one: Starting Thursday night, a major tech company sold more than one million units of its next-gen gaming console, and since then has had to contend with scattered user reports of hardware defects." allthingsd.com
 



 

PC world discusses how the Xbox One fits into Microsoft's microcosm and whether it competes with actual PCs.

 
Quote:
"Oh, there are indeed many commonalities between the two machines. But don’t believe for a second that an Xbox One will replace your gaming PC or your office PC—or even serve to supplement the PC itself. In some scenarios, in fact, a PC or a phone is almost a necessity for enjoying an optimal Xbox One experience." pcworld.com
 
See less See more
4
#55 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt  /t/1501310/xbox-one-and-playstation-4-roundup#post_23990547


just keep in mind how pathetic both the ps3 and xbox 360 were at launch compared to current offerings. the 360 had component video output still...


I think most of what you're looking for on the ps4 WILL come with future updates. the hardware is more than capable of doing everything the ps3 does and more. i'm pretty sure they had to rush development to get it released, and those were the things they crossed off the 'must have at launch' list. but if they want to sell consoles a year from now, they will need those features.


anyway, not saying you should be happy buying one now, just that I wouldn't write off the consoles. i'm sure 2-3yrs from now, nobody is going to think the ps3 or 360 is better than the ps4 or xbone anymore

I really didn't get the PS3 until my Blu Ray Player just got so frustrating with not having updates and all the failures, where my friend with a PS3 could play everything on release day. So I bought a PS3 for it's flawless BluRay capability. Never really did any gaming with it. Just this past month the PS3 offers me a whole new excitement as it is one of the few platforms that gets the New Netflix 3D streaming with over 55 titles at launch. For a 3D enthusiast, the PS3 is very much state of the art. As for Xbox, I really only got that to get ready for Kinect and had fun with it for awhile. Plus, I wanted an HD DVD player. So, I'll be keeping my 360 until it dies. I rarely use it. I use the PS3 daily, for Netflix, Amazon Prime and Vudu. Never for games. I agree with you that for someone like me, it's time to wait and see what better is offered by PS4 when it is over it's newness. In 2-3 years, I hope to have a simpler way to get my streaming video services from a Roku or similar. I think Sony lost it (for me) by not having the full HD 1080p 3D for Netflix from the start. I seriously would have been out there buying one. But if I need to wait 2-3 years, Oh my! By then there will be so many competitors out there for my specific needs I doubt I'll spring for the higher cost of a PS4. I wish Sony and Microsoft well in the gaming world. I'm not in that community, especially with the online competition stuff.
 
  • Like
Reactions: barrelbelly
#56 ·
I'm somewhat of a spectator these days, too (started with the Sega Master System as a little tyke in the 80s, actively pursuing through the Dreamcast....and later grabbed a 360 for a short time). I was rooting for the underdog (MS) in the last gen, but I'm going to be silently cheering for the other team this time thanks to the more singular focus Sony has taken in making a kick-ass gaming console. Should I ever decide to buy one, that would be the primary focus for me. My Oppo is robust enough for the rest of my home theater entertainment needs.
 
#57 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by necroticart  /t/1501310/xbox-one-and-playstation-4-roundup#post_23989582


Yep can't wait to see how they do in the rest of the world. What really gets me about Microsoft is how US centric they are. How is launching a product in 13 countries and netting the same sales the playstation did In 1 country considered good.

How could selling one million consoles in one day not be considered good?
 
#58 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by brwsaw  /t/1501310/xbox-one-and-playstation-4-roundup/30#post_23992537


I didn't notice it mentioned here yet, will the current PS4 play native 4k video?

I do not think it can yet, since the new HDMI 2.0 spec was just recently approved and the test kits for certification are not yet available. Sony said they put in a chip capable of doing it (the expected specs have been known for some time while awaiting formal approval) and should be able to use a firmware upgrade to enable 4k video (the real, 60Hz version and not the current, gimped version).
 
#59 ·
I purchased both of these consoles (I've owned every console since the original NES) and got a chance to spend some quality time with both this past weekend. Here are my impressions of each:

PS4:

Pros:

-Raw horsepower. This is a serious gaming machine, with GDDR5 RAM and 32 ROPs. I don't think any of the launch games (at least the ones I played) really show off this power, but I'm sure we'll see some great-looking AAA games in the near future.

-Controller is infinitely better than previous controller (which was a 15 year old design). It's larger, more ergonomic, and feels much more solid. The integrated touchpad works well enough.

-Streamlined interface (compared to PS3)

-Aesthetics. This is a compact, sleek machine, not the ghastly beast that the original PS3 was, or the VCR-looking Xbox One. However, this comes at a cost (see cons)


Cons:

-All that power + compact design = HEAT! After a couple of hours of spirited gameplay, this thing sounded like a jet engine and was giving off some serious heat.

-No DLNA/MP3/CD support. Sony decided to axe these features in order to push their own music/video services. BIG slap in the face to consumers.

-Limited app selection (I didn't even find a Youtube app). This will obviously improve over time, but at launch it's pretty sparse.

-No 3D blu-ray support at launch.


Overall, the PS4 feels like two steps forward (raw power and improved controller), and a LOT of steps backward when compared to the PS3. I used my PS3 to consume all of my media (Netflix/amazon streaming, DLNA streaming of content on my media PC, blu-ray/3D blu-ray, youtube, etc). The PS4 can do very little by comparison. I'm sure it will be an awesome game machine, but little more (unless Sony decides to reverse some of these decisions with future software updates).

Xbox One:

Pros:

-Kinect voice control. I thought this would be gimmicky, but it works surprisingly well. I didn't use it all the time, but for switching between different activities it was very useful. It's also nice to be able to turn on/off my Xbox, TV, DVR, and receiver with a simple voice command.

-TV integration. I was watching the Pats/Broncos game last night, and it was nice to be able to say "Xbox go to FIFA 14" at halftime and instantly switch from TV to a video game. Oh, and to be able to "snap" the NFL app to check my fantasy scores while watching the game was simply awesome.

-All in one media hub. Microsoft has been pushing this console as such (hence the name), and at launch I'd say they're really close to hitting that goal. The only things holding it back are no 3D blu-ray support, and limited DLNA support. These can be easily addressed with future patches, so I'm not too worried about it.

-Controller. The Xbox 360 controller was my favorite of all time, and this one is even better.

-Overall interface. It is light years ahead of the old 360 interface, and far better than the PS4 interface. I know not everyone is a fan of the Windows 8 style interface, but here I think it works well and is very intuitive. The impressive voice controls make it even better (I rarely had to repeat myself or shout to be understood).

-The sound of silence. I had this thing on all day yesterday, watching TV, playing games, playing a blu-ray, etc, and I never heard the console revving it's fans like the PS4 did. I believe the extra bulk of the Xbox really helps here, and I'm happy with the tradeoff.


Cons:

-It really is ugly. The comparisons to an 80s-era VCR are pretty accurate. However, the extra size helps with cooling so I don't have a problem with it.

-Less powerful compared to PS4. In practice, I didn't notice much difference in graphical quality between PS4/Xbox One games, but I didn't play the same game on both consoles so it's difficult to compare.

-Limited DLNA support. There is no DLNA streaming app currently available, but I was able to use the Xbox as a DLNA receiver with no issues. They could easily add a native app with a future upgrade.

-No 3D blu-ray support. Again, this can be easily addressed in the future.


Overall, I feel like the Xbox One is a step forward in nearly every regard compared to the previous generation, and I would say I enjoyed my time with the Xbox more than the PS4 simply due to the fact that it can do far more things. Regarding resolution-gate, there are 1080p games on the Xbox One, and I expect all AAA first-party titles will be 900p/1080p. My guess is that the PS4 was simply easier to optimize for the launch window, given its extra power. Battlefield, COD, etc were just quick ports, so I doubt they dedicated a lot of resources to optimizing them on the Xbox. Next year's releases could be a different story.


Anyhow, I'm excited that a new console generation has (finally) arrived, and I'm really looking forward to what these companies can do with their premium franchises (God of War, Uncharted, Halo, Gears, etc). It's a good time to be a gamer!
 
#60 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsaville  /t/1501310/xbox-one-and-playstation-4-roundup/30#post_23993509


I purchased both of these consoles (I've owned every console since the original NES) and got a chance to spend some quality time with both this past weekend. Here are my impressions of each:

PS4:



Overall, the PS4 feels like two steps forward (raw power and improved controller), and a LOT of steps backward when compared to the PS3. I used my PS3 to consume all of my media (Netflix/amazon streaming, DLNA streaming of content on my media PC, blu-ray/3D blu-ray, youtube, etc). The PS4 can do very little by comparison. I'm sure it will be an awesome game machine, but little more (unless Sony decides to reverse some of these decisions with future software updates).

Xbox One:



Overall, I feel like the Xbox One is a step forward in nearly every regard compared to the previous generation, and I would say I enjoyed my time with the Xbox more than the PS4 simply due to the fact that it can do far more things. Regarding resolution-gate, there are 1080p games on the Xbox One, and I expect all AAA first-party titles will be 900p/1080p. My guess is that the PS4 was simply easier to optimize for the launch window, given its extra power. Battlefield, COD, etc were just quick ports, so I doubt they dedicated a lot of resources to optimizing them on the Xbox. Next year's releases could be a different story.


Anyhow, I'm excited that a new console generation has (finally) arrived, and I'm really looking forward to what these companies can do with their premium franchises (God of War, Uncharted, Halo, Gears, etc). It's a good time to be a gamer!

QFT!!!


I also bought both consoles and have been testing them this past weekend. And i agree in all your points except for sound in the PS4 mine was very quiet even after 4 hours of Madden 25 game play. But i think xbox360 takes it just because is more fun to watch, interface, and options. I spent the entire saturday watching Bones S8 on netflix got an achievement on my Xbox1 for it. How cool is that? (Well is not a big deal i was just surprised to see achievements by watching netflix). Plus the xbox one is outputing 7.1 sound. Don't know about you guys but thats a plus for me compared to its predecessor!!!


I know people get excited about benchmarking, specs etc.etc..but i don't think it applies to consoles as much as it does to PC's. I mean look at the last console war . xbox 360 had clearly less power than the ps3 and they were almost evenly matched on sales after 8 years. Whats the point of having the most powerful machine if your experience is going to be dull? Xbox one may have lesser specs than its counterpart but it surely can do more now.


The games experience and enticing features will determine this new console war. The edge might come to whoever gets their hands on a similar Oculus Rift design....just saying.
 
#61 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII  /t/1501310/xbox-one-and-playstation-4-roundup/30#post_23991851


As I said, not here.


It's ~40% more pixels on screen. It's very noticeable.

maybe i'm being fed incorrect info then. it was my understanding both new gen consoles support 1080p gaming. forza is 1080p is it not?


so the differences in SOME games, isn't as clear cut as 720p vs 1080p. i would agree, there is a difference between 720p xbox 360 games, and 1080p ps4 games. but compared to the xbox one, that difference becomes smaller, and so far, the examples i've seen weren't obvious.


if i'm misunderstanding, then my apologies. i did not mean to say 720p = 1080p.


just to add more to the discussion, i'm surprised nobody is talking about the xbox one's superior audio capabilities. another thing that probably wouldn't get noticed outside of the enthusiasts that visit these boards, but in a lot of ways better audio can be just as or more effective than a slightly better resolution
 
#62 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003  /t/1501310/xbox-one-and-playstation-4-roundup/30#post_23991909


Yep, I notice the difference between 720p, 900p and 1080p in an instant with no assistance needed. I think a lot of people are being deceived by the "comparison" videos floating around on the web, encoded at low bitrates and 720p/30fps.  In practice, its easy to pick out which of the two looks better. 


And even if the differences are miniscule, it still begs the question of why you'd want to spend $100 more on the xbox one. I hear all the time about how the common man doesn't care about power, as demonstrated by the weaker system usually selling more....mostly because it's cheaper IMO. This time around the cheaper box is significantly more powerful. Who wants to pay more for less?

i don't know how i got roped into defending the xbox(a week ago i hated ms and wanted them to burn), but basically because you are getting 100bux of 'accessories' with the kinect thrown in.


it's just like last generation when ppl complained that the ps3 was 'more expensive' because they bundled 'more stuff' into the console. to buy a ps4 with the camera is basically the same as buying the xbox one. imo, it's a wash on price.


i agree, the cheaper system often does sell more, and so far that seems to be the case here too. but the xbox does seem(whether or not it can delivery, i'm still unsure) to offer a lot more in their console, aside from gaming. if it can start replacing WDTV's and roku's etc, then maybe the extra 100bux actually seems cheap for some.


in either event, i think 100bux is small at this point. and consumers are likely to choose the system they want, not the one they can afford. i'm still very much on the fence, but the extra 100 lines of resolution on a handful of games i may or may not end up playing isn't high up on my list. the controllers, reliability, game libraries, and how they handle offline gaming are more important factors for me.
 
#63 ·
Definitely a great right up and great comments from forum posters...

If your an early adopter such as myself you have to expect issues.....

I went with the Ps4 because of microsofts original xbox one policies......

I figure buying a xbox one is like going back to an abusive partner who only

Saw the light after beating the crap out of you and you and getting arrested.

And as for lack of 3d until later down the road, I was upset at first but remembered

I choose to buy a game system at launch. I'm 39, this not the Atari 5200 or Tandyvision

(Radio shacks version) of intellivision, these units only moving parts were the plastic dust flaps

That protected the cartridge slot. Today's tech is thousands of times more advanced

then they were, so not to expect issues would be silly. It's like comparing the weight brothers first

Airplane to a state of the art stealth fighter.
 
#64 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt  /t/1501310/xbox-one-and-playstation-4-roundup/60_10#post_23993932


maybe i'm being fed incorrect info then. it was my understanding both new gen consoles support 1080p gaming. forza is 1080p is it not?


so the differences in SOME games, isn't as clear cut as 720p vs 1080p. i would agree, there is a difference between 720p xbox 360 games, and 1080p ps4 games. but compared to the xbox one, that difference becomes smaller, and so far, the examples i've seen weren't obvious.


if i'm misunderstanding, then my apologies. i did not mean to say 720p = 1080p.


just to add more to the discussion, i'm surprised nobody is talking about the xbox one's superior audio capabilities. another thing that probably wouldn't get noticed outside of the enthusiasts that visit these boards, but in a lot of ways better audio can be just as or more effective than a slightly better resolution

The Xbox hasn't proven to have better audio. It's got a fixed function (I think) audio block (SHAPE) that takes a little stress off the CPU that the PS4 doesn't seem to have, but it doesn't really help out quality-wise. Both have programmable DSPs in the APU (probably the exact same one), and it may be the case that the PS4 DSP is eventually put to use actually making games sound better via AMDs trueaudio (right now it's mostly just used for de/compression), while the Xbox DSP is also used for de/compression and for noise reduction for kinect. But that might change as well. The trueaudio API doesn't seem to be finished yet, so there's probably some secret sauce waiting to be unlocked on both sides.


Time will tell, but the Xbox doesn't have any clear advantage on paper for audio.
 
#66 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003  /t/1501310/xbox-one-and-playstation-4-roundup/60#post_23994343


The Xbox hasn't proven to have better audio. It's got a fixed function (I think) audio block (SHAPE) that takes a little stress off the CPU that the PS4 doesn't seem to have, but it doesn't really help out quality-wise. Both have programmable DSPs in the APU (probably the exact same one), and it may be the case that the PS4 DSP is eventually put to use actually making games sound better via AMDs trueaudio (right now it's mostly just used for de/compression), while the Xbox DSP is also used for de/compression and for noise reduction for kinect. But that might change as well. The trueaudio API doesn't seem to be finished yet, so there's probably some secret sauce waiting to be unlocked on both sides.


Time will tell, but the Xbox doesn't have any clear advantage on paper for audio.

i think i need to go do some more research, because all these arguments are what i thought about the ps4's video. sure it SHOULD be more capable, and should result in better performance, but it hasn't PROVEN that, YET. and only time will tell for sure.


i'm still kind of confused how i ended up on the xbox side of things too, haha. i still feel like pending a trial of the new ds4 controller, i'm more likely to get a ps4 first. it seems to address the things i care about most(offline gaming ability)
 
#67 ·
finally got a chance to hold the new Dual Shock controller. I was amazed at the difference it had compared to the old one. It may look the same but it is FAR better. I was really impressed. Didnt use the console at all though.
 
#68 ·
I think it's funny on this forum no one mentioned that the Xbox One comes with a build in quick Calibration suite. That is pretty nice if you ask me. Either way both systems will have great games. Right now i like the Xbox One more just cause of its Home Theater integration.
 
#70 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt  /t/1501310/xbox-one-and-playstation-4-roundup/60#post_23993932


maybe i'm being fed incorrect info then. it was my understanding both new gen consoles support 1080p gaming. forza is 1080p is it not?


so the differences in SOME games, isn't as clear cut as 720p vs 1080p. i would agree, there is a difference between 720p xbox 360 games, and 1080p ps4 games. but compared to the xbox one, that difference becomes smaller, and so far, the examples i've seen weren't obvious.


if i'm misunderstanding, then my apologies. i did not mean to say 720p = 1080p.


just to add more to the discussion, i'm surprised nobody is talking about the xbox one's superior audio capabilities. another thing that probably wouldn't get noticed outside of the enthusiasts that visit these boards, but in a lot of ways better audio can be just as or more effective than a slightly better resolution

No apologies needed, I'm just a stickler when it comes to the 720P/1080P thing. Especially here being AVS, and especially due to the nature of games.


Both systems do support 1080P (just as they both technically support 4K) and I fully expect to see the XB1 hitting 1080P30/60 for it's games down the road. But ATM the only launch game that made the 1080P60 cut was Forza. It also went though some slight IQ downgrades from E3/the commercials to hit that it seems. Now, will that matter if MS creates the next super IP game that no one can live without? Hell no!


So yes, both systems support 1080P, but one is having a bit more trouble right now. As the API matures and developers understand the system better you'll probably see that issue go away. But the same can be said about the PS4, and it's resources will be put towards other things than just getting to 1080P.
 
#71 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt  /t/1501310/xbox-one-and-playstation-4-roundup/60#post_23994969



i think i need to go do some more research, because all these arguments are what i thought about the ps4's video. sure it SHOULD be more capable, and should result in better performance, but it hasn't PROVEN that, YET. and only time will tell for sure.


i'm still kind of confused how i ended up on the xbox side of things too, haha. i still feel like pending a trial of the new ds4 controller, i'm more likely to get a ps4 first. it seems to address the things i care about most(offline gaming ability)
 

I mean, I understand why people are skeptical. It's common sense, right? Sony claimed the PS3 was soooo much more powerful than the xbox 360 (and in some ways it was), but the games usually didn't look any better, and often looked worse. So why should anyone believe them this time? 

 

The difference is that last time the consoles had radically different hardware under the hood, so you couldn't just isolate a few numbers and assume one is going to be more powerful than the other. The hardware came from completely different manufacturers, used different techniques....you just really couldn't compare them like for like. It was completely apples vs. oranges. This time around everything is made by AMD, they're using the same modular architecture. It's not apples and oranges, it's apples and bigger apples. It doesn't take a PhD to know which is going to make more juice. It's already proven it with a ton of third party cross platform games. If there's a difference between them, the PS4 version looks better.  If there isn't a difference, it's because the devs didn't bother going the extra mile and left some of the PS4s power on the table.

 

The audio is a somewhat different story, because on a micro level there seem to be some significant differences.  But the audio blocks on the APU are still very tiny compared to the CPU/GPU, and when you take a step to the macro level, there simply isn't enough there on the xbox side to claim any real advantage. Even if it can offload some CPU/GPU tasks, that doesnt make up for the fact that the PS4 GPU is way bigger, and can pick up all of that slack and then some. There's nothing you can do on an ASIC or DSP or than you can't do on a CPU/GPU, and the CPU/GPU is significantly more flexible. From everything I know (which includes a few conversations with industry insiders that shall not be named), the Xbox's audio capabilities have been oversold, and the PS4's has been undersold. The reason I'm waiting for it to shake out is because parts of this are literally still a work in progress. In the end there's nothing the xbox will be able to do audio-wise that the PS4 can't, and I could make a pretty good case that the PS4 will trump the xbox on audio as well. But that being said, if there's any one aspect of gaming where I generally expect there will be parity, it'll be audio.  Unlike video, where you can just raise the resolution and it simply looks better in every way, there's no simple method for an audio programmer to just turn a few knobs and make everything sound better.     
 
#72 ·
All I can say is I got a PS4 based on it's theoretical performance ability and am looking on longingly at the XB folks with their good games (I only got BF4) and slick user interface.


The better games is what will ultimately decide the winner, graphics or not, but MS is doing everything to prove that the more pleasant ride makes up for less horse power...


I have to agree with the sentiment this is a pretty sad next gen though... I think in part it's due to the race to get a product out early meaning that we aren't seeing much real next get action, mostly just ported PC/last gen action.


But even looking forward I think the biggest limitation comes from the fact that we have pretty much stagnated on input/output. It's still a 2D visual output with surround sound and some minor tactile feedback and it's still for the most part the same two sticks and group of buttons we have had since the PS1/Xbox era.


We are seeing rehashes of the same game mechanics over and over with different costumes. It's like how every movie made nowadays is a story that was already told before with different characters. The games are largely the same but with higher resolution.


I think we need a different kind of input to allow for new types of gameplay... I like where kinect is trying to go with detailed ability to use your whole body as a real input but I feel until we see some decent VR (ie rift with full tactile feedback) we are locked into generally the same game types and ideas... and no matter how pretty they get, they will not feel really next gen.


We went from generic shapes representing things to pictures that looked reasonably like those things to 3D representations of real things, to realistic looking 3D representations of realistic things with enough detail to really get some depth of choice and action. Beyond this things just get prettier but you don't open any real doorways into game options. No matter how much more detailed environments get my interaction with them is limited to two thumb sticks and a handfull of buttons. That's why things don't feel next gen anymore.... there is no leap in immersion like there was before. There is just a polishing of the current level of immersion.
 
#73 ·
Big +1 bd2003. You beat me to that explanation. People love to bring up PS3 and 360 with regards to graphics differences. You can't look at that and say the PS4 and XB1 outcome will be the same. Nope. They were two completely different architectures. One very easy to code, one very hard. Both had little advantages over each other. This time the PS4 and XB1 architecture are very similar but the PS4 has more power. So it's going to be extremely easy for developers to show better graphics with their PS4 version. We're already seeing this at launch with games being 720p on XB1 and 1080p on PS4. The difference will be more obvious over the months and years.
 
#74 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003  /t/1501310/xbox-one-and-playstation-4-roundup/60#post_23995345


I mean, I understand why people are skeptical. It's common sense, right? Sony claimed the PS3 was soooo much more powerful than the xbox 360 (and in some ways it was), but the games usually didn't look any better, and often looked worse. So why should anyone believe them this time? 


The difference is that last time the consoles had radically different hardware under the hood, so you couldn't just isolate a few numbers and assume one is going to be more powerful than the other. The hardware came from completely different manufacturers, used different techniques....you just really couldn't compare them like for like. It was completely apples vs. oranges. This time around everything is made by AMD, they're using the same modular architecture. It's not apples and oranges, it's apples and bigger apples. It doesn't take a PhD to know which is going to make more juice. It's already proven it with a ton of third party cross platform games. If there's a difference between them, the PS4 version looks better.  If there isn't a difference, it's because the devs didn't bother going the extra mile and left some of the PS4s power on the table.


The audio is a somewhat different story, because on a micro level there seem to be some significant differences.  But the audio blocks on the APU are still very tiny compared to the CPU/GPU, and when you take a step to the macro level, there simply isn't enough there on the xbox side to claim any real advantage. Even if it can offload some CPU/GPU tasks, that doesnt make up for the fact that the PS4 GPU is way bigger, and can pick up all of that slack and then some. There's nothing you can do on an ASIC or DSP or than you can't do on a CPU/GPU, and the CPU/GPU is significantly more flexible. From everything I know (which includes a few conversations with industry insiders that shall not be named), the Xbox's audio capabilities have been oversold, and the PS4's has been undersold. The reason I'm waiting for it to shake out is because parts of this are literally still a work in progress. In the end there's nothing the xbox will be able to do audio-wise that the PS4 can't, and I could make a pretty good case that the PS4 will trump the xbox on audio as well. But that being said, if there's any one aspect of gaming where I generally expect there will be parity, it'll be audio.  Unlike video, where you can just raise the resolution and it simply looks better in every way, there's no simple method for an audio programmer to just turn a few knobs and make everything sound better.     

the other reason i'm only 'skeptical' and not flat out ignoring it, is that this time around the ps4 is actually the simpler system to program for. I do realize things are a bit different this time around, but I still want to see some more examples, and see what the industry does with the software before I decide. if games are made for the xbox, and then ported over to the ps4, we may not see the ps4's potential except for exclusives.


imo, both 'major' advantages of the consoles are greatly unproven at this point.


XBOX:

theoretically has more media features, more integration, a smoother interface, etc. but I really need to experience these things in a similar setup as mine before I accept them as useful


PS:

has more power which theoretically should allow more games to play at high resolutions. but it's still up to the developers to make that distinction. last gen, many developers that made cross-platform games simply didn't go through the trouble of tweaking the game to higher specs for the more powerful ps3. the simpler design of the ps4 might make it easier to do this, or might even make it the industry standard for cross-platform games. in 6months-1 year we'll have a good idea about this.
 
#75 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devedander  /t/1501310/xbox-one-and-playstation-4-roundup/60#post_23995550


All I can say is I got a PS4 based on it's theoretical performance ability and am looking on longingly at the XB folks with their good games (I only got BF4) and slick user interface.


The better games is what will ultimately decide the winner, graphics or not, but MS is doing everything to prove that the more pleasant ride makes up for less horse power...


I have to agree with the sentiment this is a pretty sad next gen though... I think in part it's due to the race to get a product out early meaning that we aren't seeing much real next get action, mostly just ported PC/last gen action.


But even looking forward I think the biggest limitation comes from the fact that we have pretty much stagnated on input/output. It's still a 2D visual output with surround sound and some minor tactile feedback and it's still for the most part the same two sticks and group of buttons we have had since the PS1/Xbox era.


We are seeing rehashes of the same game mechanics over and over with different costumes. It's like how every movie made nowadays is a story that was already told before with different characters. The games are largely the same but with higher resolution.


I think we need a different kind of input to allow for new types of gameplay... I like where kinect is trying to go with detailed ability to use your whole body as a real input but I feel until we see some decent VR (ie rift with full tactile feedback) we are locked into generally the same game types and ideas... and no matter how pretty they get, they will not feel really next gen.


We went from generic shapes representing things to pictures that looked reasonably like those things to 3D representations of real things, to realistic looking 3D representations of realistic things with enough detail to really get some depth of choice and action. Beyond this things just get prettier but you don't open any real doorways into game options. No matter how much more detailed environments get my interaction with them is limited to two thumb sticks and a handfull of buttons. That's why things don't feel next gen anymore.... there is no leap in immersion like there was before. There is just a polishing of the current level of immersion.

totally agree. I also wonder if the age of the typical gamer has something to do with it as well. I mean, i'm sure the xbox one is new and impressive to an 8yr old. but somebody in their late 20's to early 40's that has been through the NES/sega days and everything since, we've seen it all before already. the fact is, the ps3 and xbox were REALLY close to maxing out current tv resolutions and a/v gear capabilities. there wasn't much left to improve on. if these consoles game out next year, or the year after when more 4k displays were in ppl's homes, and they supported 4k resolutions, then it'd be a large jump, and feel 'next gen' worthy. it just seems like 1080p is way too old, even though we haven't really had 1080p gaming on the a console, 1080p isn't new, isn't flashly, and is already on the verge of being replaced. so it's hard to make 1080p feel new again.
 
#76 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt  /t/1501310/xbox-one-and-playstation-4-roundup/70_10#post_23996328


the other reason i'm only 'skeptical' and not flat out ignoring it, is that this time around the ps4 is actually the simpler system to program for. I do realize things are a bit different this time around, but I still want to see some more examples, and see what the industry does with the software before I decide. if games are made for the xbox, and then ported over to the ps4, we may not see the ps4's potential except for exclusives.


imo, both 'major' advantages of the consoles are greatly unproven at this point.


XBOX:

theoretically has more media features, more integration, a smoother interface, etc. but I really need to experience these things in a similar setup as mine before I accept them as useful


PS:

has more power which theoretically should allow more games to play at high resolutions. but it's still up to the developers to make that distinction. last gen, many developers that made cross-platform games simply didn't go through the trouble of tweaking the game to higher specs for the more powerful ps3. the simpler design of the ps4 might make it easier to do this, or might even make it the industry standard for cross-platform games. in 6months-1 year we'll have a good idea about this.

Except we're already seeing it. If there was ever a time for devs to cut corners and target the lowest common denominator, launch would have been it. And a few did, but the majority of cross platform games are showing better on the ps4, and in almost all cases it's mostly just a resolution bump. This isn't something that's going away...there are certain aspects of the Xbox one design that don't make it very well suited to high resolutions and frame rates. It's not a theoretical advantage, it's happening in practice already with multiple titles.


The vast majority of 3rd party games nowadays are being made not only for the consoles, but the PC. A platform that's infinitely variable, so scalability is a necessity. It's really not any extra effort to exploit the ps4 at that point.
 
  • Like
Reactions: freemeat
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top