LG 77” Curved UHD OLED at CES 2014 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 150 Old 01-05-2014, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
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The 2013 debut of OLED HDTVs was supposed to be a big deal. The technology promised to raise the bar for flat-panel image quality. However shipments of OLED HDTVs were exceptionally low last year, whereas shipments of LED-lit UHDTVs were robust, outperforming OLED by a 500:1 ratio.


LG's 77EC9800 features UHD resolution combined with OLED image quality

2014 is looking better for videophiles with deep pockets. Both Samsung and LG are showing off new OLED UHDTVs at multiple screen sizes. Most of the new models will feature a curved screen; however it remains to be seen if they will be wall-mountable, unlike the 2013 OLEDs from the two companies.

The leap in screen size from 55” to 77” and the jump from HD to UHD resolution make LG’s new 77EC9800 OLED UHDTV a potential “star of the show.” Thanks to the increase in screen real-estate, the extra resolution of UHD content becomes clearly visible to viewers sitting at a comfortable distance. At the same time, OLED offers black levels that are unmatched by other technologies. Image quality was off-the-charts.
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“The 77EC9800 is a 77-inch OLED (Organic Light Emitting Diode) with a resolution of 3840 x 2160 which has four times as many pixels as High Definition. One of the advantages of 4K is that you can sit closer than a 1080p and not see pixel structure--making this similar to the effect given by an Apple Retina display, and particularly handy for larger screen sizes.” source: CNET

I intend to pay particular attention to the latest developments in this still-niche product category. Considering the advances being made in terms of LCD UHDTV quality (and screen sizes) I suspect OLED will have a tough time penetrating the market. Perhaps LG should try making a flat version at a similar size.

(Updated, I saw it in person at CES)

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post #2 of 150 Old 01-05-2014, 10:26 AM
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More curved screens...
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post #3 of 150 Old 01-05-2014, 10:36 AM
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No msrp?
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post #4 of 150 Old 01-05-2014, 10:38 AM
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For OLED it seems that we keep taking 1 step forward and 2 steps back. The Panasonic and Sony deal failed which just leaves Samsung and LG (so far). This lack of competition means that OLED prices will remain too high for the average person. Sales will continue being low which will cause a reduction of manufacturing. We will know more when CES officially starts, but it certainly looks like OLEDs will be few and expensive in 2014. Add 4K to the mix and things get even more expensive.

Hopefully, LG, Samsung and the other will make a return to full array LEDs. It's no where near as good as OLED but it's still good and it's certainly better than the cloudy mess they have given us before.

Give me a 4K, backlit LED with local dimming at a decent price and I will be happy for a few years.
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post #5 of 150 Old 01-05-2014, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by eclipsegt View Post

For OLED it seems that we keep taking 1 step forward and 2 steps back. The Panasonic and Sony deal failed which just leaves Samsung and LG (so far). This lack of competition means that OLED prices will remain too high for the average person. Sales will continue being low which will cause a reduction of manufacturing. We will know more when CES officially starts, but it certainly looks like OLEDs will be few and expensive in 2014. Add 4K to the mix and things get even more expensive.

Hopefully, LG, Samsung and the other will make a return to full array LEDs. It's no where near as good as OLED but it's still good and it's certainly better than the cloudy mess they have given us before.

Give me a 4K, backlit LED with local dimming at a decent price and I will be happy for a few years.



For sure....you are so right!!!
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post #6 of 150 Old 01-05-2014, 11:10 AM
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4K , OLED, 70"+........now we're talking.

Really good to see this moving forward.
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post #7 of 150 Old 01-05-2014, 11:46 AM
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Can anyone explain what the deal with curved screens is about? Is the drive stylistic or functional? I have not seen these in the wild.
thanks
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post #8 of 150 Old 01-05-2014, 11:50 AM
 
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Nothing but a stylistic, differentiation and market-oriented decision.
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post #9 of 150 Old 01-05-2014, 12:03 PM
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Thanks -- I thought there might be a viewing angle advantage, but thinking it through bending the image to look better off axis in one direction would worsen it in the other.
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post #10 of 150 Old 01-05-2014, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mikelz85 View Post

No msrp?

As the old adage says, if you have to ask, you can't afford it. biggrin.gif
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post #11 of 150 Old 01-05-2014, 12:28 PM
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As a fan of curved screens for projectors, I don't think it's worth it until you get to greater than 100 inch diagonal screen sizes, since the appropriate seating distance leaves you, at least with 16:9 content, with plenty of peripheral vision outside the scope of the screen.

With large, 21:9 screens, I could go for a curved screen, but IMO it's more trouble than it's worth. The tiny bit more immersion you might get from sitting really close to a 77 inch curved OLED pales in comparison to the annoyance of it not mounting flush against your wall, and the fact that it's only a sweet spot for two people sitting in the middle, everyone else gets a weirdly shaped perspective.

No thanks, LG.
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post #12 of 150 Old 01-05-2014, 12:30 PM
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Ces 2014 trend is curved screens ..,Toshiba, Samsung,Tlc all showing posters with curved screens.
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post #13 of 150 Old 01-05-2014, 12:31 PM
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Lg showing 55" 65" curved oled aswell with they 77"
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post #14 of 150 Old 01-05-2014, 01:17 PM
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No MSRP because it's not a product. It's a demo.

And as for whether OLED will be the star of the show, I just have to laugh. It's been heavily featured by Samsung and LG at CES 2012 and CES 2013. And the total global shipments of OLED TVs in the past 2 years are well below 10,000 units. For 2014, no one is expecting the total to exceed 300,000 (and many consider that optimistic), while 4K LCD will absolutely ship many, many, many more than that.

So no.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #15 of 150 Old 01-05-2014, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikelz85 View Post

No msrp?

You know, if you need to ask for the price; then....
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post #16 of 150 Old 01-05-2014, 01:58 PM
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Thanks -- I thought there might be a viewing angle advantage, but thinking it through bending the image to look better off axis in one direction would worsen it in the other.

You're correct.

curved screens are the "ribbon speakers" of the display world... they work great for one person sitting right in the middle in the "sweet spot" and for everyone else it's a notable compromise.

I can't stand the fact that these manufacturers are only offering curved OLED/4K at these large sizes. Despite the great image quality from the center position, it couldn't be considered a "home theater" display IMO.
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1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #17 of 150 Old 01-05-2014, 02:01 PM
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Well since I don't have deep pockets and the Panny/Sony deal failed I think I will pass and enjoy my HX850 for a few more years to come.
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post #18 of 150 Old 01-05-2014, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet View Post

curved screens are the "ribbon speakers" of the display world... they work great for one person sitting right in the middle in the "sweet spot" and for everyone else it's a notable compromise.

I think that analogy is more apt than just the logistical aspects...
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I can't stand the fact that these manufacturers are only offering curved OLED/4K at these large sizes. Despite the great image quality from the center position, it couldn't be considered a "home theater" display IMO.

You pretty much have to be a single person to spend (waste?) money on gimmicky-y technology like this anyway. It's one thing to be an early adopter of something ridiculously cool and cutting edge. It's another thing entirely to be sold something based almost entirely on marketing...
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There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #19 of 150 Old 01-05-2014, 06:03 PM
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Well ? MSRP ? either could mean manufacture's suggested retail price.
Or make me a super revised price deal.
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post #20 of 150 Old 01-05-2014, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post

As the old adage says, if you have to ask, you can't afford it. biggrin.gif
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Originally Posted by dnphamus13 View Post

You know, if you need to ask for the price; then....

and, when you dont know, you better ... you know... as the 'net saying goes ... stfu.

i want to know the price, not because i cant afford it but to see how ridiculous the MSRP will be.
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post #21 of 150 Old 01-05-2014, 07:09 PM
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Does it even make sense to buy a new tv now a days?? 2k, 4k, 8k, oled, curved, 48fps,hdmi 2.0, I mean I know buying the latest technology means your a head of the curve for a month, but now its like before you get to the store to buy the latest greatest your already behind?
The industry is starting to turn into its own enemy, might as well just buy a last year tv save money and call it a day.
The tv industry is worse then the cellphone industry
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post #22 of 150 Old 01-05-2014, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

No MSRP because it's not a product. It's a demo.

And as for whether OLED will be the star of the show, I just have to laugh. It's been heavily featured by Samsung and LG at CES 2012 and CES 2013. And the total global shipments of OLED TVs in the past 2 years are well below 10,000 units. For 2014, no one is expecting the total to exceed 300,000 (and many consider that optimistic), while 4K LCD will absolutely ship many, many, many more than that.

So no.

Wait a minute, weren't you the guy who predicted repeatedly over the years that OLED wouldn't be commercially purchaseable at all before 2015, if ever? They're up to UHD at 77 inch sizes now, that's nonetheless quite an achievement. Do you actually make money off your market predictions? Because if you did, I'd be very surprised. Your own predictions about OLED availability have turned out to be completely false, as any number of people on this forum can attest. I distinctly remember you stating several times that the monitors which did have an MSRP would not be available to buy, now you're merely stating that people didn't buy many of them? Which is it? Oh, I know, hindsight is 20 / 20, foresight is 0 / 0.

Technology improves by leaps and bounds, no one can predict what processes will be invented in 2014 to make OLED cheap enough to manufacture to replace LCD, and thus a commercial success in the near-future or not. Most people probably have not even seen one, but the second they get to within a few tens of % more expensive than LCD, it will spell the doom of that god-awful display tech and good riddance.
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post #23 of 150 Old 01-05-2014, 08:03 PM
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Layoff. Rogo has made good predictions and bad ones. Ted Williams only hit 400 once and he is considered legendary and so is Rogo in my book.
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post #24 of 150 Old 01-05-2014, 08:16 PM
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OK, am I wrong in thinking I won't be able to buy a 70+ inch OLED UHD non-curved TV next fall?confused.gif

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post #25 of 150 Old 01-05-2014, 08:29 PM
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Has to be curve-free for me...

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #26 of 150 Old 01-05-2014, 08:37 PM
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OK, am I wrong in thinking I won't be able to buy a 70+ inch OLED UHD non-curved TV next fall?confused.gif

They obviously need to make a non-curved version because this is clearly a gimmick that will actually hurt their sales.

77' 4K OLED should sell itself, curved just makes it impossible to fit in many luxury mansions' living rooms which probably already have a dedicated curved theater room besides that.

16:9 is idiotic curved.
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post #27 of 150 Old 01-05-2014, 08:43 PM
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Layoff. Rogo has made good predictions and bad ones. Ted Williams only hit 400 once and he is considered legendary and so is Rogo in my book.

If your predictions are less than 50% accurate, anyone can flip heads or tails and do just as well.

Don't underestimate the ability for tech to improve faster than linearly. Actually, linear increases in processor speed or pixel density, especially in the mobile space, have increased at geometric rates. Who's to say OLED manufacturing costs won't drop by an order of magnitude this year? You? Me? Rogo? No way. It's just speculation and grandstanding.

Assuming the future will follow trends from the past is just absurd. I respect some of his insights due to insider industry knowledge, but predictions is where I draw the line and he constantly posts such things without any self-reflection that they are, more often than not, utterly wrong. I don't believe in prophets, I'm a scientist. And especially not ones who move their own goalposts repeatedly on this same topic. It's quite tiresome hearing the doom and gloom about OLED all the time. I'm quite surprised that there are 77 inch 4K OLED screens, I'm sure within a few years we'll have roll-down, wall-sized, printed OLEDs with infinite contrast, higher rez than the eye can differentiate and better color and dynamic range than we can use, and this entire forum will be pointless.

See, I can make predictions too. (nb : I hope this forum doesn't go anywhere. P_)
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post #28 of 150 Old 01-06-2014, 03:35 AM
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Has to be curve-free for me...

Without having seen it it person, I agree. Another thought is that the curves might be a point of sale marketing tactic -- in a room full of flat screens from floor to ceiling, how does one stand out? Sure, OLED has great promise and 4K is the future, but to John Q wandering through Best Buy -- will he notice anything that says 'stop and buy me!'. Not likely. The curb appeal of 4K over 1080p just won't be as profound as HD was over SD, or even Color over B&W.

I guess it could be worse -- they might have tried round screens. That would really stand out in a crowd. Why not spherical -- that makes sure that there is no sweet spot. PQ would stink, but it would be the fairest screen on the market. smile.gif

Now that those who have seen tell me that curves are for style points only, let's hope they go away soon.
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post #29 of 150 Old 01-06-2014, 04:38 AM
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In Europe there are several flat LG OLEDs for sales. Samsung OLEDs are not sold in Europe..yet. It will annoy americans that LG and Samsung forces curved OLED stuff upon them. Bad move.
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post #30 of 150 Old 01-06-2014, 06:55 AM
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Unfortunately here in Europe or The UK in my case everything is a least twice the price of what it costs in the US. That won't ever change unfortunately. It's like for example in years gone by with plasma. You guys could buy a 65" plasma (for the same price as a 50") would cost here in Europe.

I have always been satisfied with 50" though - as i have a reasonably small narrow bedroom which has only two foot space at both sides of the panel between the cupboard door where i keep all games and blu-ray's. And the other side is where the big wardrobe is. I sit 4-6 foot normally and a maximum ot 11ft from the screen as it's as far as the room goes lol.

It will be a (long) time before an 80" U-HD OLED (which i read is the realistic size for that resolution) will be less than 9K British currency. And even if i could afford that trying to justify that to the other half when i have a small son is more than likely out of the question. Lol.

Millionaires stuff for a while - or i become a single man again lol and start saving.
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