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post #331 of 354 Old 01-17-2014, 08:08 PM
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Scott, why do you like the Vizeo Reference more than the Sharp 8K model?
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post #332 of 354 Old 01-17-2014, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post


The Vizio Reference Series playing content graded for its Dolby Vision capabilities, no question in my mind.
Thanks Scott, did you see any of the Samsung displays?
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Originally Posted by Orbitron View Post

Scott, why do you like the Vizeo Reference more than the Sharp 8K model?
Resolution isn't everything...
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post #334 of 354 Old 01-17-2014, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Orbitron View Post

Scott, why do you like the Vizeo Reference more than the Sharp 8K model?


As vinnie97 said, resolution isn't everything; in fact, it's probably not the most important thing, at least at "normal" screen sizes. Yes, the Sharp 8K looked amazing, but in my view, the Vizio beat it in terms of overall picture quality.


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post #335 of 354 Old 01-17-2014, 11:16 PM
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Thanks Scott, did you see any of the Samsung displays?


Yes, I looked at them extensively. They looked great generally (except for the curves, which I object to on all but the very largest screens). Samsung is the best in the industry when it comes to edgelit black levels and uniformity, but I still prefer FALD.


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post #336 of 354 Old 01-18-2014, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post


Yes, I looked at them extensively. They looked great generally (except for the curves, which I object to on all but the very largest screens). Samsung is the best in the industry when it comes to edgelit black levels and uniformity, but I still prefer FALD.
Thanks Scott. Appreciate your response
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post #337 of 354 Old 01-18-2014, 11:03 AM
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Kind of surprised Sony was caught sleeping and is going with 8 bit panels vs Vizio's Reference's 10.
In light of the Vizio being 10 bit, how much better would the display likely be (for future 4k BDP source and no computer/video game use) had it been equipped with the 18 gbps hdmi chip?

Was the difference between the Sony 950/900 and the Vizio Reference so obvious that the choice between the 2 will be easy?
How much content will be out there that will support the Dolby Vision tech? Any chance Netflix 4k streaming will? I would assume 4k bluray disc players will have this ability.
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post #338 of 354 Old 01-18-2014, 11:22 AM
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Kind of surprised Sony was caught sleeping and is going with 8 bit panels vs Vizio's Reference's 10.
In light of the Vizio being 10 bit, how much better would the display likely be (for future 4k BDP sources) had it been equipped with the 18 gbps hdmi chip?

Was the difference between the Sony 950/900 and the Vizio Reference so obvious that the choice between the 2 will be easy?
How much content will be out there that will support the Dolby Vision tech? Any chance Netflix 4k streaming will? I would assume 4k bluray disc players will have this ability.

 

Yeah, I'm a little surprised myself that the bottom level panel can't handle more than 8 bits.  But in reality though, dithering neighboring color levels to achieve intermediate values is not as easy to detect as you might think.  Particularly at 4K.


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post #339 of 354 Old 01-18-2014, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Yeah, I'm a little surprised myself that the bottom level panel can't handle more than 8 bits.  But in reality though, dithering neighboring color levels to achieve intermediate values is not as easy to detect as you might think.  Particularly at 4K.


I may be wrong here, but with a temporal dithering scheme, wouldn't you sacrifice half the refresh rate capability of the display? (which would mean that content produced in higher frame rates might not be able to take advantage of the dithered bits)
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post #340 of 354 Old 01-18-2014, 11:34 AM
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Yeah, I'm a little surprised myself that the bottom level panel can't handle more than 8 bits.  But in reality though, dithering neighboring color levels to achieve intermediate values is not as easy to detect as you might think.  Particularly at 4K.


I may be wrong here, but with a temporal dithering scheme, wouldn't you sacrifice half the refresh rate capability of the display? (which would mean that content produced in higher frame rates might not be able to take advantage of the dithered bits)

 

You'd want spatial dithering.  Not temporal.  Sony already has bit-depth upscaling to that effect, though I'm only beginning to understand everything it does.

 

And you're only dithering very close (or neighboring) values to get the effect of an intermediate level.

 

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/technology/technology/theme/8ido18000001pf69-img/8ido18000001pfd3.gif 


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post #341 of 354 Old 01-18-2014, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

You'd want spatial dithering.  Not temporal.  Sony already has bit-depth upscaling to that effect, though I'm only beginning to understand everything it does.

And you're only dithering very close (or neighboring) values to get the effect of an intermediate level.

Wouldn't you sacrifice luminance resolution (relative to the original signal) if you used spatial dithering?
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post #342 of 354 Old 01-18-2014, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

You'd want spatial dithering.  Not temporal.  Sony already has bit-depth upscaling to that effect, though I'm only beginning to understand everything it does.

And you're only dithering very close (or neighboring) values to get the effect of an intermediate level.

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/technology/technology/theme/8ido18000001pf69-img/8ido18000001pfd3.gif
 

Doesn't the display also have to have the capability to accept, process and actually display the 14 bits in order to improve PQ ? My Lumagen Radiance converts 8 bit to 12 bit for internal processing and sends 12 bit 422 to my Sharp Elite which accepts that as input. What the elite does with internally is unknown.
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post #343 of 354 Old 01-18-2014, 01:32 PM
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Doesn't the display also have to have the capability to accept, process and actually display the 14 bits in order to improve PQ ? My Lumagen Radiance converts 8 bit to 12 bit for internal processing and sends 12 bit 422 to my Sharp Elite which accepts that as input. What the elite does with internally is unknown.

 

I'm sorry, I don't understand the question.  If you have a panel that is fundamentally 8 bits, you can have software that drives it at high bitdepth by playing games such as dithering.  It's not perfect, but it's better than having contouring everywhere like my R550A does.  Yikes.


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post #344 of 354 Old 01-19-2014, 08:40 PM
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knjr.jpg

This was LG's video wall, which everyone who was destined for the LG section was exposed to and had to walk through, to get in.

It was huge, dwarfing any one observer. It was comprised of 140 50" LG LCD panels, 7 panels tall and 20 panels across, with massive 3D images streaming across, around and through the truly massive array. Total immersion was effortless. Images flew out at you, flew past you, allowed you to look down into, floated with you in space... It was truly impressive. It required plastic LG 3D glasses which were given out by linen-gloved LG personnel, showing how good flat panels can look in 3D. No twin-projector setups, no opposing polarized filters in front of projector lenses - everything implementing the very impressive 3D was built-in to each panel.



Observers - shows about 1/3 of them in the first shot, the rest were to my left, off camera. My phone's cam (Samsung S4) did not capture that this is all in the dark, it made it look like it was fully lighted in there, but no it was actually very dark, the exact same lighting levels as you'd see in a movie theater. I have not explored my phone enough to know how to change the light level getting into the phone's camera lens, otherwise I would have stopped it down appropriately. So use your imagination, it was like being in a movie theater.

92zd.jpg

azp5.jpg

The shots I took of the wall itself had to be done through just one lens of the polarized glasses that were handed out up against my camera's lens, or they would have appeared as double images, which is what you would see whenever you took the glasses off.

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post #345 of 354 Old 01-20-2014, 08:31 AM
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Did you guys catch the Dirac "active room correction" demo?

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post #346 of 354 Old 01-20-2014, 09:07 AM
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Did you guys catch the Dirac "active room correction" demo?
Please tell us more.
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post #347 of 354 Old 01-20-2014, 09:32 AM
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Did you guys catch the Dirac "active room correction" demo?
Please tell us more.

Here's all I've seen:

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post #348 of 354 Old 01-21-2014, 09:29 AM
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post #349 of 354 Old 03-05-2014, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vvuuren View Post

Thanks Scott, did you see any of the Samsung displays?


Yes, I looked at them extensively. They looked great generally (except for the curves, which I object to on all but the very largest screens). Samsung is the best in the industry when it comes to edgelit black levels and uniformity, but I still prefer FALD.


Sorry Scott but I beg to differ with you when you say Samsung is the best in the industry when it comes to edgelit black levels and uniformity. In my opinion Sony's HX850 and W900 beat anything Samsung put out.
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post #350 of 354 Old 03-05-2014, 09:59 AM
 
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Can't what has definitively the best black levels be measured? I don't see what opinion has to do with it. Uniformity is a harder nut to crack objectively, I suppose.
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post #351 of 354 Old 03-05-2014, 10:09 AM
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Vinnie -

Would love to see what you really meant to say, but right now I cannot make out your first sentence and what you are trying to say.

Oh wait. OK, I get it.

The black levels with strong white content present will be different from the black levels with a mostly dark scene, in terms of shadow detail and the ability to make it out. When we used to calibrate using the original Joe Kane VE disc, the Pluge pattern was incredibly valuable, but at CES one year Jim Doolittle pointed out to me that the following pattern was just as valuable. It was the pluge on the left side, against black background, with a 100 IRE all white field on the right side. It was very challenging to get the blacker than black bar to show, with that brilliant all white field there on the other side of the pattern. Sophisticated expensive ceiling projectors could do it with easy, the less expensive sets had a much harder time of it.

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post #352 of 354 Old 03-05-2014, 10:12 AM
 
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Sorry, was awkwardly worded (could've done better for clarity's sake).
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post #353 of 354 Old 03-08-2014, 11:54 PM
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seems like the top of the line tv's will be awesome but what if any enhancements have been made for mid level
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post #354 of 354 Old 03-09-2014, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
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One can increase the apparent bit depth of an LCD panel via a technique called temporal dithering, wherein you repaint the image at a high refresh rate (greater than the eye/brain can detect) and change the intensity of a pixel during repaints. An gross example of this would be to make the whole screen white during one pass and the whole screen black during the next. This would give a 50% duty cycle and would result in a mid gray. The result is not linear, so there are algorithms in place to linearize the process. This technique is used on medical (radiology) diagnostic monitors to achieve 10 and 12 bit resolution which better approximates film. The "gothcha" is that the radiographs are static and TV images are dynamic. I really don't know if anyone has experimented with LCD TV images complete with motion smoothing augmented by temporal dithering. It might make for a flickering mess.

Samsung has some 6 bit +FRC LED /LCD SPVA TV panels I have one in my Sony KDL 40R450A surprisingly in spite of that it has a decent picture I'm not sure if it is handicapped
(or not ) as far as 2K displays go because of that but it looks fine maybe someone more knowledgeable than I would know?.

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