Facebook & Oculus VR: The Future of Personal Home Theater? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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Old 03-29-2014, 06:30 AM
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Anyone else as mystified as I am about this rash of facebook hatred in all this?

 

This undercurrent of "OR has sold us out" (and related sentiments) are just flat out weird, I'm sorry.


Java developers, when I saw what has been placed into Java 8 I was immediately reminded of how I've spent so much of my life trying to protect engineers from themselves. Lambda expressions are a horrible idea. Gentlemen: the goal isn't to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer. The goal is to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer exhausted and hopped up on caffeine at 3 am. What a disaster Java 8 is!
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Old 03-29-2014, 11:32 AM
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An intriguing idea, but I find it appealing only if I'm watching a movie by myself. Otherwise, it isolates viewers from the communal experience of watching a movie together.
+1
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Old 03-29-2014, 06:37 PM
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Not to change the topic, but did anyone watch the episode of the Shark Tank that just aired? One group of entrepeneurs was trying to get the sharks to invest in their forthcoming Omni VR kit, which utilizes the Oculus Rift in addition to their own low friction stationary treadmill and running shoes accessories. It takes the next step beyond Wii/Kinect and is supposedly compatible with any game system that will accept a keyboard by mapping your movement to the usual keyboard controls. Those interested in the Rift might want to check it out...

http://www.virtuix.com


It must have been a repeat, as it aired a few months ago....I was surprised, by the relatively low cost of it! Hope they continue they're success.


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Old 03-29-2014, 10:42 PM
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Not touching anything associated with Facebook.
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Old 03-29-2014, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Anyone else as mystified as I am about this rash of facebook hatred in all this?

I've been trying but failing to understand it. I think people are having trouble differentiating between Facebook the company and facebook.com the social network. There is no indication that VR is coming to facebook.com (or vice versa) any time soon. Oculus Rift is going to remain independent, just like Instagram has been.
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Old 03-30-2014, 03:06 AM
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I'm thinking this is a preemptive strike to keep Google from getting the company. This is a least 5yrs away from practical use. Also virtual reality is something that seems to circle around every few years (sort of like 3D used to).

"Bring out yer dead!".."Wait I'm not dead yet!"..(Sound Austrian here) "WRONG !!" (You know what happens next..)
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Old 03-30-2014, 09:17 AM
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An ad for each eye. Twice the revenue.

Bingo 

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Old 03-30-2014, 11:11 AM
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Anyone else as mystified as I am about this rash of facebook hatred in all this?
Maybe it's because Facebook has gone from:

- a way to connect to others in an unencumbered social environment that requires you to supply personal information to facilitate it

To

- a massive information collection database that just happens to allow you to socialize with others.

Facebook has become the prototype model that proves the NSA has been doing it wrong.

Both groups strive to collect and monitor every bit of data about what we do every minute of our lives along with every connection we make to others. The only difference between the two is that people voluntarily allow Facebook to spy on them.

Had the NSA provided some form of useful function (like social networking) in return for collecting all that information, people would have been lining up around the world to literally throw their information at them. It's kind of perplexing how they totally missed the opportunity considering the success of "America's Army", the game the US Army put out which was designed to be nothing more than a recruiting tool for the Army.

Perhaps the NSA should have spent a little less on big buildings full of servers and a little more on marketing people - namely people who could cause the public not to wonder why the NSA is collecting their data but to feel insulted and left out if they aren't.
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Old 03-30-2014, 12:54 PM
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It's the biggest supplier of big data out there
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Old 03-30-2014, 01:48 PM
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We already have our avatars interacting socially in computer games, so being able to see as our avatar does seems a minor step, conceptually. Technologically very difficult to pull off, but functionally, from users' standpoints, straightforward. Sounds like a lot of fun.

I don't do the Facebook thing, myself, but if and when I do, I expect to have to pay up, in one way or another. TANSTAAFL.

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Old 03-30-2014, 03:40 PM
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Agreed on the "free lunch" thing.

 

Regarding everything else: Sorry, but the arguments against facebook are seeming nuttier than ever now that they're being explained.

 

Good grief.


Java developers, when I saw what has been placed into Java 8 I was immediately reminded of how I've spent so much of my life trying to protect engineers from themselves. Lambda expressions are a horrible idea. Gentlemen: the goal isn't to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer. The goal is to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer exhausted and hopped up on caffeine at 3 am. What a disaster Java 8 is!
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Old 03-30-2014, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Agreed on the "free lunch" thing.

Regarding everything else: Sorry, but the arguments against facebook are seeming nuttier than ever now that they're being explained.

Good grief.

I take it you don't use Facebook all that much?

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Old 03-30-2014, 05:53 PM
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This comedy sketch obviously goes to an extreme in order to be funny, but this is exactly what we are afraid of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpbqRmqKlDw&feature=youtu.be
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Old 03-30-2014, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Agreed on the "free lunch" thing.

Regarding everything else: Sorry, but the arguments against facebook are seeming nuttier than ever now that they're being explained.

Good grief.

I take it you don't use Facebook all that much?

 

I use it all the time.


Java developers, when I saw what has been placed into Java 8 I was immediately reminded of how I've spent so much of my life trying to protect engineers from themselves. Lambda expressions are a horrible idea. Gentlemen: the goal isn't to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer. The goal is to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer exhausted and hopped up on caffeine at 3 am. What a disaster Java 8 is!
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Old 03-30-2014, 06:35 PM
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I use it all the time.

How could you possibly want the people responsible for the horrible mess it's become to take over the best hope for VR?

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Old 03-30-2014, 06:44 PM
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How could you possibly want the people responsible for the horrible mess it's become to take over the best hope for VR?

Facebook.com seems fine to me, I still don't see what the problem is in concrete terms. But it doesn't matter, because there is no indication that Facebook is going to be meddling with Oculus Rift. Facebook acquired them but everyone involved have stated that Oculus will continue to operate independently. Whatever you think of facebook.com, Facebook's track record with such acquisitions suggests their word is good on this matter.
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Old 03-30-2014, 07:31 PM
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Not touching anything associated with Facebook.

You may want to restate that comment. It's pretty broad and cover quite a bit of terrain. Such as Microsoft Xbox, Windows, IE...Apple...the Cable/Sats...Mobile Phone makers & etc. And that doesn't even scratch the surface of what Zuckerberg is invested in himself.
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Old 03-30-2014, 11:22 PM
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Facebook.com seems fine to me, I still don't see what the problem is in concrete terms. But it doesn't matter, because there is no indication that Facebook is going to be meddling with Oculus Rift. Facebook acquired them but everyone involved have stated that Oculus will continue to operate independently. Whatever you think of facebook.com, Facebook's track record with such acquisitions suggests their word is good on this matter.

For many, many years, you could organize the feed how you wanted. Then they made "top stories" the default, and hid the "most recent" option away (and you can never make it default). Why? So they can reorganize your feed to subtly slip in ads to you. If your friend "likes" Samsung, they can pay to have that fact promoted.

Next, they made it so your feed is littered with comments your friends made on posts of people you don't even know, to widen the pool of possible posts they can promote to you, further diluting the feed. Then they just straight up threw ads in your feed.

It used to be a way to keep up with your friends, now it's all links, likes and ads - on the surface it looks like it's barely changed, but everything you used to come there for is buried in a sea of garbage that's intentionally difficult to wade through. To the point where the only way to stand out from the garbage is to out-compete it. It's just terrible now.

My concern with Facebook owning oculus isn't that they ruin it right off the bat - it's that they make it so good that they build yet another de facto monopoly, then they pull the rug from under you. They've owned Instagram for like what, a year? It took at least half a decade before they denigrated Facebook.com, so I wouldn't take their current hands off approach to Instagram as any indication that they won't throw them under the bus in due time.

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Old 03-31-2014, 12:00 AM
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Thanks for elaborating, bd2003. I can understand why those things would be annoying. In my own experience I don't particularly notice them. I wonder if one's number of friends matters. It would seem like having more friends would magnify those annoyances. I read that the average Facebook user has 300 friends. I only have about 70. I used to have over 100, but one day I realized I didn't truly care about what a good chunk of them were up to, as I never really knew them that well in the first place. I found that made the experience more manageable and enjoyable.

But ads, ads are everywhere. TV, newspaper, AVS Forum, etc etc. If I'm not paying for it, I expect to see ads, and I think that's fair.

Facebook acquired Instagram in April 2012, so it's been nearly two years. It's a valid point though, not all that much time has passed. But it also doesn't make sense for Facebook to "throw them under the bus." What future start up is going to join Facebook if they know their word is no good? Eventually Facebook is going to want to make some money off the Oculus, of course, but for now it's not in Facebook's interest to get in the way. Time will tell how they eventually make money. Zuckerberg has mentioned, for example, using VR to watch sports games with your friends. It would make sense for them to make money off of ads in the virtual stadium. It's not going to be something ridiculous like ads for Burger King injected into The Elder Scrolls.
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Old 03-31-2014, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

I use it all the time.

How could you possibly want the people responsible for the horrible mess it's become to take over the best hope for VR?

 

I've read your follow up explanation to this statement, but it still doesn't follow.  Given that OR has engineers and that facebook isn't interested in throwing away those engineers, where's the issue?  And by the way, I don't know if you have a software background or not, but facebook has a very tough nut to crack.  The facebook.com you use is a thin UI client to a very big and complicated database program (and very little else).  It has the nightmare scenario of connecting and distributing micro updates continually across 728 million users per day (they have ~1.2 billion "monthly active" users).  If you've ever seen the designs for enormous database synchronizations then you'll know that it's not just one big fat disk with one big fat CPU churning away in a closet someplace.

 

Most of the complaints that I read about facebook (including yours here) have to do with the UI:

Quote:

For many, many years, you could organize the feed how you wanted. Then they made "top stories" the default, and hid the "most recent" option away (and you can never make it default). Why? So they can reorganize your feed to subtly slip in ads to you. If your friend "likes" Samsung, they can pay to have that fact promoted.
 

Next, they made it so your feed is littered with comments your friends made on posts of people you don't even know, to widen the pool of possible posts they can promote to you, further diluting the feed. Then they just straight up threw ads in your feed.

 

And these are UI complaints.  And I have complaints about their UI as well; proper UI design is a part of my background.  But be aware of this: you can't just write a new UI for facebook without dramatically changing how enormous amounts of data gets synchronized around the world.  It's not like writing a UI for nearly any other app where every change you make merely alters the front end.  They're almost entirely a database application.  In Facebook's case, if they put one little thing into the UI, it's gotta be able to have whatever data that UI change makes be updatable within their global system.  This just isn't as simple as it seems, and it's worsened by the fact that what you know to be facebook is almost entirely their UI, and their UI is the barest sliver of what makes them function.

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Java developers, when I saw what has been placed into Java 8 I was immediately reminded of how I've spent so much of my life trying to protect engineers from themselves. Lambda expressions are a horrible idea. Gentlemen: the goal isn't to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer. The goal is to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer exhausted and hopped up on caffeine at 3 am. What a disaster Java 8 is!
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Old 03-31-2014, 07:25 AM
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I heard they've had quite a problem with people getting motion-sickness from the Oculus. Just an interesting side-effect. Lots of people approach it from a technological stand point or capitalistic but quite a few people can't even use the device because of the sensation. Just something to keep in mind...

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Old 03-31-2014, 08:29 AM
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If you don't agree that Facebook is ad crazy and really pushing it in your face then that's fine.

However, Facebook has already started a decline in popularity and use which I largely blame on the massive data collection and the blatant ad push on their users. Heck, when I tried to delete my facebook the only option I had was for them to "deactivate" my profile....which I have been told you can still find. Why can't I delete it? It's my profile, maybe I don't want that information on the web anymore...but facebook collects profiles and holds onto them.

I simply decided that I wanted to spend my time building real relationships rather than sitting at a computer "poking" someone who I haven't seen since college or high school....

But I see facebook buying Oculus as a grab to try and stay on top. As they have started to decline...and you know they look at the usage numbers daily...they have started trying to think of ways to stay relevant. What better way to suddenly be back on top than to buy one of the biggest videogame developments in the last 20 years?!

But why did they buy it? I have no doubt that they will be allowing us to play games on it but do we have to create an Oculus profile about who we are and what we are interested in? Will it track the games we are playing to show us advertisements between online sessions as the maps load based on the games we have been playing recently? Will they only support games that will allow them to jam these kinds of advertisements down our throat?

Trying to enjoy the simple things in life.

 

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Old 03-31-2014, 08:31 AM
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I heard they've had quite a problem with people getting motion-sickness from the Oculus. Just an interesting side-effect. Lots of people approach it from a technological stand point or capitalistic but quite a few people can't even use the device because of the sensation. Just something to keep in mind...

They stated a while ago that they had "fixed" this issue. It had something to do with the screen resolution and something else....but it is still something that I am worried about as I can get really motion sick.

Trying to enjoy the simple things in life.

 

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Old 03-31-2014, 09:50 AM
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If you don't agree that Facebook is ad crazy and really pushing it in your face then that's fine.

 

I don't.  Nor would I specifically begrudge them that ability if I felt that they did.  I'd grumble a little, and move on.

 

I'd realize that having an ad-free social network is not an entitlement...it's just not some inalienable right that we're somehow born into.  It's merely a product that I'm free to not use.


Java developers, when I saw what has been placed into Java 8 I was immediately reminded of how I've spent so much of my life trying to protect engineers from themselves. Lambda expressions are a horrible idea. Gentlemen: the goal isn't to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer. The goal is to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer exhausted and hopped up on caffeine at 3 am. What a disaster Java 8 is!
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Old 03-31-2014, 10:16 AM
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I've read your follow up explanation to this statement, but it still doesn't follow.  Given that OR has engineers and that facebook isn't interested in throwing away those engineers, where's the issue?  And by the way, I don't know if you have a software background or not, but facebook has a very tough nut to crack.  The facebook.com you use is a thin UI client to a very big and complicated database program (and very little else).  It has the nightmare scenario of connecting and distributing micro updates continually across 728 million users per day (they have ~1.2 billion "monthly active" users).  If you've ever seen the designs for enormous database synchronizations then you'll know that it's not just one big fat disk with one big fat CPU churning away in a closet someplace.

Most of the complaints that I read about facebook (including yours here) have to do with the UI:

And these are UI complaints.  And I have complaints about their UI as well; proper UI design is a part of my background.  But be aware of this: you can't just write a new UI for facebook without dramatically changing how enormous amounts of data gets synchronized around the world.  It's not like writing a UI for nearly any other app where every change you make merely alters the front end.  They're almost entirely a database application.  In Facebook's case, if they put one little thing into the UI, it's gotta be able to have whatever data that UI change makes be updatable within their global system.  This just isn't as simple as it seems, and it's worsened by the fact that what you know to be facebook is almost entirely their UI, and their UI is the barest sliver of what makes them function.

My gripe isn't with the technical implementation of the UI and database itself (which is indeed very impressive).

At best you can accuse them of ruining it with feature bloat, but I think it's far more insidious than that.

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Old 03-31-2014, 11:27 AM
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Quote:

Originally Posted by HockeyoAJB View Post
 

It will be interesting to see if Facebook tries to take what could be considered to be the most anti-social form of display tech/entertainment immersion possible and put a social networking spin on it.

 

Otherwise, who wants to interact "face to face" when both people are wearing what looks like nightvision goggles on their head/face.

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Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
 

An intriguing idea, but I find it appealing only if I'm watching a movie by myself. Otherwise, it isolates viewers from the communal experience of watching a movie together.

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Originally Posted by Polaris Cipher View Post

I agree with what Scott said, often movie watching is a group experience. On top of that I hate Facebook, I only use it because there is no alternative to keeping in touch easily with old friends.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PapoHT View Post

Like others have expressed, the reason I have a home theater is for the social experience.

I disagree. This is not the same as watching a movie on a little screen in front of your eyes alone in your house.  This is something that convincingly transports you elsewhere.

 

Scott, imagine being able to screen a movie for members of the AVS community. Members could put on the VR headset and then be standing in a virtual movie theater. Members like Polaris could walk around the theater and then sit in a seat next to HockeyAJB. During the movie HockeyAJB and Polaris could talk and look at each other just as if they were seated in a real theater even though they are hundreds of miles apart.

 

Or how about having an AVS social function where you invite members to some sort of special new product demonstration/specification reveal you coordinated with a sponsoring partner. Before the demo, participants could move about the room freely and talk to other AVS members just like they were in the same living room. Would people want to do this 8 hrs a day every day? Probably not but I've seen posts and thread where AVS members express some sort of desire to get together or that they feel isolated from the rest of the community because no one is geographically near them.

 

There are demos on youtube where people use the OR to share the same virtual room.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by imagic View Post

 

In the near future, a personal pair of UHD OLED panels—one for each eye—could provide the illusion of a truly believable 3D space.

 

The future is already here.  The Oculus Rift is already creating a believable virtual reality that is wowing people.  Google the Game of Thrones Oculus Rift demo.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I think it has zero relevance to movies as we know them - in that case it's literally no better than a screen strapped to your face. Anyone that wants a personal view of a movie when a TV/PJ isn't practical is better served by a tablet.
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I have considered headphones for HT. They solve so many problems. And I really like 3D movies, don't mind the glasses, but I just can't see myself enjoying a movie with that thing stuck on my face. Maybe I'm just getting old.

 

Don't think of it as watching a screen in front of your eyes.  This is not the Sony Glasstron.  With Virtual Reality, you go from watching Batman interrogating the Joker in the Dark Knight to sitting in the same room as them while being able to look 360 degrees around while the scene plays out.  You now experience it as if you are physically sitting in the room as Batman plays into the Joker's hand.  Who wouldn't want that?  Google Zero Point.  They've already made the first 360 movie for the OR.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
 

Anyone else as mystified as I am about this rash of facebook hatred in all this?  This undercurrent of "OR has sold us out" (and related sentiments) are just flat out weird, I'm sorry.

 

A little history.  Two years ago Oculus Rift was a couple of guys working in a garage.  Then they had a super successful kickstarter campaign based on promises of delivering this technology to the hard core video game community.  Over the last 18 months people have watched Oculus Rift eagerly as the promise of a virtual reality device that actual delivers on the promise of VR actually seemed like it would happen.  (everyone who tried it seemed to want to buy it immediately even as they cleaned the vomit off their shirts)  Then Facebook buys OR (soon to be).  Backers and supporters are probably feeling like hey, I gave these guys $100 and supported the vision when they needed help and support and now they sold the company, making themselves millionaires, and I still don't have the option of buying a consumer version of the product. And the product that might eventually come to market might be nothing more than a gimmicky peripheral that suits Facebooks agenda.

 

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I've been watching the evolution of the Oculus Rift for the last 9 or so months and I'm still on the fence whether the Facebook acquisition is good or not. Facebook has the resources to help OR overcome some remaining technical hurdles but Facebook has a track record that worries me.  I think my best case scenario is that Facebook spends tons of money and helps OR deliver on the promise of VR and then quickly realizes it can't make money and spins off the company before we all have to submit fingerprints, DNA, SSN and a list of the last 10 people we interacted with just to turn it on.  If it ever gets to that, I'll buy a Sony Morpheus.

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Old 03-31-2014, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Sammy388 View Post

I heard they've had quite a problem with people getting motion-sickness from the Oculus. Just an interesting side-effect. Lots of people approach it from a technological stand point or capitalistic but quite a few people can't even use the device because of the sensation. Just something to keep in mind...

This is an interesting point. And there is an easy, free way to test yourself for it. If you have Google Earth or a similar program, do this:
  1. Login and rotate the globe so that the middle of the Pacific Ocean, Indian Ocean, South Sea under Anarctica, Atlantic Ocean etc. Pick any area of the sea that your brain computes as being remote, hostile and scary to be stranded in.
  2. Slowly start to descend down toward the open surface. And don't cheat by scanning near any land. The waves will start to become quite visible as you get closer to the surface. And your brain will know that it is REAL. The waves will get big and menacing. And you'll have a real sense of being there if you have symptoms of motion sickness.
  3. Scan around the sea a bit from an up close and personal view. Up and Down...East and West. If you don't get a bit of queasiness, anxiety or fear/dread...then you likely won't experience much motion sickness in VR from falling or heights. If you throw up...VR probably won't be your "huckleberry". If it imparts a sense of heightened anticipation, anxiety, curiosity, amusement, fear without nausea. Then get ready for the gaming experiences of your life. VR games will light your candle like nothing else...ever.

Try it and let us know what you think. I know it definitely affected me in ways I didn't expect. And it wasn't even in VR! I didn't get nauseous like my Doctor friend who had me try this. Not even close to it. Old Doc Kleiman had to upchuck in the toilet. biggrin.gif But he does have an acute fear of falling from high places. He's terrified of flying. I did personally sense an ominous and scary presence or sensation. Sort of like being helpless in a plane crash over that remote water I bet. That kind of power probably could cause me s..t in the pants moments in the hands of a good writer and game developer.

So to the commenter point. People are going to absolutely monitor their sensitivity to this effect when selecting games to play in VR. And what kind of movies they watch. They will most definitely need to make kids strictly adhere to appropriately rated programming of all types.
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Old 03-31-2014, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimeran View Post

If you don't agree that Facebook is ad crazy and really pushing it in your face then that's fine.

However, Facebook has already started a decline in popularity and use which I largely blame on the massive data collection and the blatant ad push on their users. Heck, when I tried to delete my facebook the only option I had was for them to "deactivate" my profile....which I have been told you can still find. Why can't I delete it? It's my profile, maybe I don't want that information on the web anymore...but facebook collects profiles and holds onto them.

I simply decided that I wanted to spend my time building real relationships rather than sitting at a computer "poking" someone who I haven't seen since college or high school....

But I see facebook buying Oculus as a grab to try and stay on top. As they have started to decline...and you know they look at the usage numbers daily...they have started trying to think of ways to stay relevant. What better way to suddenly be back on top than to buy one of the biggest videogame developments in the last 20 years?!

But why did they buy it? I have no doubt that they will be allowing us to play games on it but do we have to create an Oculus profile about who we are and what we are interested in? Will it track the games we are playing to show us advertisements between online sessions as the maps load based on the games we have been playing recently? Will they only support games that will allow them to jam these kinds of advertisements down our throat?

You think that is bad?! Try dumping Bing one day. That program is like a virus. I do think FaceBook is being blamed for something every other PC host is doing. Just look how even Valve is carpet bombing us with ads in Steam. But at least they are savvy enough to keep giving us user controllable features gamers really like and appreciate. If the FB side leave Carmack, Abrash, Lucky and the gang do that with Oculus Rift...no one will have a problem IMO. I believe they will. Because if VR is successful as most of us think...plenty of new competition will join the party. Just like with HDTVs.
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Old 03-31-2014, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Sammy388 View Post
 

I heard they've had quite a problem with people getting motion-sickness from the Oculus. Just an interesting side-effect. Lots of people approach it from a technological stand point or capitalistic but quite a few people can't even use the device because of the sensation. Just something to keep in mind...

 

This problem does not exist in the newer headsets.  Higher resolution, lower latency, no motion blur and full positional motion tracking of your head in 3D keeps your lunch down. :)

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Old 03-31-2014, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Boxozaxu View Post

This problem does not exist in the newer headsets.  Higher resolution, lower latency, no motion blur and full positional motion tracking of your head in 3D keeps your lunch down. smile.gif

I can't see how they can pull off full positional motion tracking with pre-recorded media.

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