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post #151 of 172 Old 04-30-2014, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

All other areas aside from color? Sure, if you overlook ANSI contrast and horizontal viewing angles. The blank screen black level differences are (or should be) well known but that doesn't tell the whole story concerning contrast ratios and shadow detail. And why did you dump the "superior" Elite for such a disappointingly inferior set pray tell?
FWIW, in the VE 2011 shoot-out the Elite trounced the VT30 (and the other plasmas) in ANSI contrast. 15,000:1 vs 6600:1. Per David Mackenzie's review, the ANSI of the ZT60 is 17,000:1. That makes them pretty close. I'm not sure that would show up in actual content viewing.
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post #152 of 172 Old 04-30-2014, 10:54 AM
 
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Um, plasma was pretty much a joke after Pioneer bailed until Panasonic finally got their @#$% together in 2013 (2012 was also decent to be fair), too bad it was also their swan song.

The superiority of a better ANSI contrast would assuredly show up in normal viewing with lower APL scenes, and then there's the prospect of the blooming artifact, even on the Sharp Elite (like phosphor trails, it bothers some folks more than others, and there are of course those who don't notice it at all).
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post #153 of 172 Old 04-30-2014, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

The superiority of a better ANSI contrast would assuredly show up in normal viewing with lower APL scenes.
I'm not very sure that a 15,000:1 (Sharp Elite) and 17,000:1 (ZT60) ANSI would be easily identifiable from each other side by side. Our eyes see on a logarithmic scale and those are pretty close relatively speaking on a log scale.
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post #154 of 172 Old 04-30-2014, 02:40 PM
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Isn't 2013, the year sales fell apart. I think having your LCD double as a light bulb doesn't prove anything about it lack of contrast. Plasma technology has much higher potential ANSI contrast than any LCD; the problem is that not everyone has a dark room to take care of them in, and they get confused with crappy DLP TVs.

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post #155 of 172 Old 04-30-2014, 03:52 PM
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2013 was probably best year for plasma ever. when was the last time 3(4?) different models were able to challenge, legitimately, as the best picture quality every available. I mean sure, there will be some things kuro's did better, and some things lcd did better, and some things crt did better etc, but for overall package, there hasn't been much that could compare to the st60, vt60, zt60, and f8500. to have all of those available at the same time is amazing!

the death of plasma really happened many years ago, when they stopped marketing them

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post #156 of 172 Old 04-30-2014, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

2013 was probably best year for plasma ever. when was the last time 3(4?) different models were able to challenge, legitimately, as the best picture quality every available. I mean sure, there will be some things kuro's did better, and some things lcd did better, and some things crt did better etc, but for overall package, there hasn't been much that could compare to the st60, vt60, zt60, and f8500. to have all of those available at the same time is amazing!

the death of plasma really happened many years ago, when they stopped marketing them

I have to agree, if I didn't already have a resonable plasma TV to watch I would be bringing home a F8500 this weekend, but since I am able to wait...

I am pinning hopes on a decent (resonably priced) 65-70 inch 4K OLED. biggrin.gif

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post #157 of 172 Old 05-01-2014, 10:20 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

I'm not very sure that a 15,000:1 (Sharp Elite) and 17,000:1 (ZT60) ANSI would be easily identifiable from each other side by side. Our eyes see on a logarithmic scale and those are pretty close relatively speaking on a log scale.
15,000:1 doesn't seem to be universally held as what the Sharp Elite is capable of: http://www.tweaktv.com/images/stories/ShootOut/2012/copy%20of%20shootout%202012%20contrast%20ratio.pdf
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post #158 of 172 Old 05-01-2014, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

15,000:1 doesn't seem to be universally held as what the Sharp Elite is capable of: http://www.tweaktv.com/images/stories/ShootOut/2012/copy%20of%20shootout%202012%20contrast%20ratio.pdf
The 2011 measurements show it as 15194:1. link

I hadn't seen the 2012 report where it measured lower.
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post #159 of 172 Old 05-01-2014, 01:32 PM
 
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Interesting...perhaps the lower reading related to a firmware bug or a defective unit.
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post #160 of 172 Old 05-01-2014, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Interesting...perhaps the lower reading related to a firmware bug or a defective unit.
Or perhaps a change in methodology or equipment.
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post #161 of 172 Old 05-05-2014, 10:57 AM
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Yes they don't care as long as it's cheap and large just like food!

I have a different view, based on the spouse love of TV.  Nice to have an visual (and audio) experience, but she reacts to the story, writing, acting, etc., i.e., the media content.  As much as purists and connoisseurs lament about compressed sources like MP3, cable transmissions, streaming, etc., it's the media content whether over earbuds & mobile/tablet screen or the man cave w/ AVR & dark blinds.  On the other hand, no Kuro, Elite or 8500 is going to compensate for 55 channels of crap.

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post #162 of 172 Old 05-05-2014, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by TManero View Post.....On the other hand, no Kuro, Elite or 8500 is going to compensate for 55 channels of crap.

I agree 100% that is why I cancelled TV 15 years ago :)

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post #163 of 172 Old 05-05-2014, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Interesting...perhaps the lower reading related to a firmware bug or a defective unit.
Or perhaps a change in methodology or equipment.
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Originally Posted by D-Nice 
The 2011 measurments were done with a 4x4 checkerboard pattern. Thw 2012 measurements were done with a 5x5 checkerboard pattern which overlapped the zones on the Sharp Elite. That is why the numbers are different.
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post #164 of 172 Old 05-05-2014, 03:00 PM
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And they used a 4x4 checkerboard in 2013 if my memory of the video on YouTube is correct. The Sharp has a lot more than 16 zones in a 4x4 grid. Supposedly 240 zones. The center of the rectangles they're measuring shouldn't share a dimming zone with a rectangle of the opposite color. FWIW, I wouldn't have expected any change going from a 4x4 to a 5x5 checkerboard.
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post #165 of 172 Old 05-06-2014, 06:41 AM
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Isn't 2013, the year sales fell apart. I think having your LCD double as a light bulb doesn't prove anything about it lack of contrast. Plasma technology has much higher potential ANSI contrast than any LCD; the problem is that not everyone has a dark room to take care of them in, and they get confused with crappy DLP TVs.

Exactly . . .  not everyone watches TV in a dark room, and many buy in brick & motar stores and they like bright "pop".  I have the same issue of black level vs. a washed out picture in a room with windows.  It's very rational, like the human body craving for salt & sugar, and when they know how we're hard wired, it's only a matter of time suppliers find out & sell to us on that basis, like a bright picture.

Bars will hate see Plasma go because of the unlimited viewing angle, but Sammy & LG will make some models for them & airports and they can charge what they want.

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post #166 of 172 Old 05-06-2014, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Isn't 2013, the year sales fell apart. I think having your LCD double as a light bulb doesn't prove anything about it lack of contrast. Plasma technology has much higher potential ANSI contrast than any LCD; the problem is that not everyone has a dark room to take care of them in, and they get confused with crappy DLP TVs.

Exactly . . .  not everyone watches TV in a dark room, and many buy in brick & motar stores and they like bright "pop".  I have the same issue of black level vs. a washed out picture in a room with windows.  It's very rational, like the human body craving for salt & sugar, and when they know how we're hard wired, it's only a matter of time suppliers find out & sell to us on that basis, like a bright picture.

Bars will hate see Plasma go because of the unlimited viewing angle, but Sammy & LG will make some models for them & airports and they can charge what they want.

 

I think sports bars will be fine with replacing 65-inch plasmas with much brighter, yet more energy-efficient 85-inch LED-lit IPS UHD-4K LCDs. For unlimited viewing angle applications, my guess is commercial OLED takes over.


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post #167 of 172 Old 05-06-2014, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Weboh View Post
 

Isn't 2013, the year sales fell apart. I think having your LCD double as a light bulb doesn't prove anything about it[s] lack of contrast. Plasma technology has much higher potential ANSI contrast than any LCD; the problem is that not everyone has a dark room to take care of them in, and they get confused with crappy DLP TVs.

Exactly . . .  not everyone watches TV in a dark room, and many buy in brick & motar stores and they like bright "pop".  I have the same issue of black level vs. a washed out picture in a room with windows.  It's very rational, like the human body craving for salt & sugar, and when they know how we're hard wired, it's only a matter of time suppliers find out & sell to us on that basis, like a bright picture.

Bars will hate see Plasma go because of the unlimited viewing angle, but Sammy & LG will make some models for them & airports and they can charge what they want.


And you are not saying this makes Plasma inferior, but rather different, and built for dark-theater like rooms. I think once that is established; it may be in an expensive niche.

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post #168 of 172 Old 05-06-2014, 10:52 PM
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I dunno, I've never understood why anybody would think plasmas are only good in the dark. (excuse the mess) this is an OLD Samsung plasma btw, b530, was under a grand ~5yrs ago, not something special
10291320_10154111342915032_3056817135977095170_n.jpg

and I don't understand why ppl don't realize LCD's are only good when when it's bright.
251228_10150638437685032_4909027_n.jpg

but seriously, the misinformation the average consumer has to deal with is unreal. I'm quite confident that they did not choose lcd over plasma, they simply accepted the push from marketing to support lcd over plasma. or rather LED over plasma, as if LED were a new display type...
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post #169 of 172 Old 05-07-2014, 02:25 PM
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Most of the window's light hits the back of the plasma TV. Nice.

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post #170 of 172 Old 05-07-2014, 03:06 PM
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Most of the window's light hits the back of the plasma TV. Nice.
not really. notice the shadow. at that time of day it's pretty much directly from the side, but it does move onto the screen, or behind, depending on the time of day.

I still feel that an LED in the same location would not handle direct sunlight any better. the CRT RPTV that used to be there faired FAR worse with direct sunlight.

if you want your TV to perform well, you make a tiny bit of consideration for where you place it. that goes for every type. I just don't accept that somebody can claim a plasma won't work because it has to deal with direct sunlight. I have never seen an LCD that could handle direct sunlight either. i often get the morning sun coming in through my bedroom window and hitting my d630(lcd) and it completely washes out the image on that too. either way, i need to close the blinds

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post #171 of 172 Old 05-07-2014, 08:25 PM
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not really. notice the shadow. at that time of day it's pretty much directly from the side, but it does move onto the screen, or behind, depending on the time of day.

I still feel that an LED in the same location would not handle direct sunlight any better. the CRT RPTV that used to be there faired FAR worse with direct sunlight.

if you want your TV to perform well, you make a tiny bit of consideration for where you place it. that goes for every type. I just don't accept that somebody can claim a plasma won't work because it has to deal with direct sunlight. I have never seen an LCD that could handle direct sunlight either. i often get the morning sun coming in through my bedroom window and hitting my d630(lcd) and it completely washes out the image on that too. either way, i need to close the blinds

I never understood why some people wont do a bit of furniture rearranging to get the best out of their TV, LCD or Plasma. You spend how many hours a day looking at the damn thing, why not put it in the perfect spot and figure out the rest of the room around it. Or ya know buy some blinds...
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post #172 of 172 Old 05-09-2014, 08:00 PM
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exactly. when that tv picture above was first installed, it was flat against the wall, and had sunlight shining on it most of the time. angling it like 30* did a heck of a lot more good than spending 3grand on a new LED would have.

if you aren't going to make the tv viewing part of your design consideration, then you wouldn't care about its performance anyway. plasma, lcd, led, whatever should be good enough. if you want to get good performance, then you should position the tv, again plasma or lcd, appropriately.

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