Sony Blames Blu-ray for "Bag of Hurt" - Page 21 - AVS Forum
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post #601 of 1354 Old 05-08-2014, 05:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

It's against the terms of service to sell the codes apparently according to a google search, it's even more of a grey area when the person selling the codes wasn't the original owner of the disk it came with. Ebay auctions have been shut down over this for "copyright infringement". I'm all for saving a buck and it doesn't bother me in the slightest that people do this. It's also "illegal" to rip disks that you own. There are lots of ludacris copyright laws. It just rubs me the wrong way when someone says they go to the library to load up on discount codes. Might as well save the trouble and just download a copy from your friendly neighborhood torrent site.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120418/20330218550/is-selling-your-ultraviolet-code-copyright-infringement.shtml

 

An eBay policy does not equal a legal precedent.


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post #602 of 1354 Old 05-08-2014, 05:41 AM
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propriety in legal terms, I mean, of course.

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post #603 of 1354 Old 05-08-2014, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

It's against the terms of service to sell the codes apparently according to a google search, it's even more of a grey area when the person selling the codes wasn't the original owner of the disk it came with. Ebay auctions have been shut down over this for "copyright infringement". I'm all for saving a buck and it doesn't bother me in the slightest that people do this. It's also "illegal" to rip disks that you own. There are lots of ludacris copyright laws.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120418/20330218550/is-selling-your-ultraviolet-code-copyright-infringement.shtml
I am 100% sure the studios would like to make re-selling of UV Codes (and CD/DVD/BRDs) illegal. The article you pointed to is 2 years old and really says nothing other than ebay was nervious in this one situation. Given that there are US based web sites re-selling UV codes and lots of sales on ebay now, I think it is pretty clear the studios have not been successful in making it illegal yet.

What if it were the other way around? I purchase the BRDs watch the movie put the UV copy in my UV account and then sell the BRD - nothing different there and that maybe worse for the studios as that BRD may get resold many times.
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post #604 of 1354 Old 05-08-2014, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

An eBay policy does not equal a legal precedent.

http://www.webpronews.com/ultraviolet-code-crackdown-starting-on-ebay-2012-04
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According to attorney Jim Burger, this practice is considered “unbundling”. “[The] use of the UV code is governed by the UV license, [which] permits the owner of the disc to access digital content in the cloud and does not allow resale of the service,” he explained to MESA. In short, unless you’re willing to sell the whole package along with those unused codes, studios aren’t going to be too thrilled with your online transactions.

Burger also added that individuals who purchase these codes from sites like eBay could be considered guilty of copyright infringement themselves. All of this may seem outrageously silly from a consumer standpoint, but the studios are obviously struggling to maintain an economic foothold in an age where people can download just about any sort of entertainment they want for free.
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post #605 of 1354 Old 05-08-2014, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by atmusky View Post

I am 100% sure the studios would like to make re-selling of UV Codes (and CD/DVD/BRDs) illegal. The article you pointed to is 2 years old and really says nothing other than ebay was nervious in this one situation. Given that there are US based web sites re-selling UV codes and lots of sales on ebay now, I think it is pretty clear the studios have not been successful in making it illegal yet.

What if it were the other way around? I purchase the BRDs watch the movie put the UV copy in my UV account and then sell the BRD - nothing different there and that maybe worse for the studios as that BRD may get resold many times.

The studios are sometimes really thinking in a weird way. They put codes in when you buy a blu-ray. Which should logically ( in a world of justice, which is relative to everfy one ...) make you the owner of both formats. So, you should be able to re-sell the movie, since you've paid for it!

Selling a code obtained wrongfully is denied, and rightfully so! But when you've paid for it...

It's like the " buy one, get one free" promos on anything. Would you find it akward if the maker of the item would forbid you to sell the one you've obtained free, with the reason being that it maybe harm a future full price sale to them? You don't want me to resell it? JUst don't include it , then.

Ah, that legal BS always at the advantage of corporations...

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post #606 of 1354 Old 05-08-2014, 05:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

An eBay policy does not equal a legal precedent.

http://www.webpronews.com/ultraviolet-code-crackdown-starting-on-ebay-2012-04
Quote:
According to attorney Jim Burger, this practice is considered “unbundling”. “[The] use of the UV code is governed by the UV license, [which] permits the owner of the disc to access digital content in the cloud and does not allow resale of the service,” he explained to MESA. In short, unless you’re willing to sell the whole package along with those unused codes, studios aren’t going to be too thrilled with your online transactions.

Burger also added that individuals who purchase these codes from sites like eBay could be considered guilty of copyright infringement themselves. All of this may seem outrageously silly from a consumer standpoint, but the studios are obviously struggling to maintain an economic foothold in an age where people can download just about any sort of entertainment they want for free.

 

By that line of thinking, you are also unbundling if you redeem your UV code and then sell the disc. The words "could be considered" have no legal weight; anything "could be considered" by a court of law.

 

It's not clear if any of that is enforceable. It's all part of a "shrinkwrap license" that is probably not enforceable.

"In general, a user is not legally obligated to read, let alone consent to any literature or envelope packaging that may be contained inside a product; otherwise such transactions would unduly burden users who have no notice of the terms and conditions of their possession of the object purchased, or the blind, or those unfamiliar with the language in which such terms are provided, etc. At the very least, the fair trade laws of most U.S. states would grant a buyer the right to cancel the purchase of a product where an enclosed contract provides terms of which purchaser can not be aware at the time the product is purchased." - from wikipedia

 

When the outside of Blu-ray packaging clearly states "Do no resell the UV code contained within this package, " that'll be a different story.


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post #607 of 1354 Old 05-08-2014, 09:23 AM
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The problem has been pricing and hidden early expiration of "included" redeemable streaming service codes, to say the least.

Blu-ray is still best AV quality and still has value, especially in areas that don't have Internet or poor quality/slow speed Internet, or when their Internet service is not working or want to take their movie to a friend or family members house to watch, where that friend/family members household does not have Internet/has slow Internet issues. Those households (I would say fall into the vast majorly of households) still want/need blu-ray.

Blu-ray players service a need to those parents/families that bought keepsake blu-ray videos from their kids/grand kids band, choir, sports, etc events that were professionally recorded.

Streaming has its conveniences in portability to multiple devices that don't have bluray drives (e.g. iPads,smartphones,etc), but as mentioned physical media has its need. Sony needs to change their marketing to show where it's strengths play too, cut the price in half at the same time and they might turn their perceived trend around (I say perceived because the real reason for drop in sales is not mutually exclusive with streaming as its sole reason). Sony has not done too well with their marketing efforts and its overpricing.

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post #608 of 1354 Old 05-08-2014, 09:29 AM
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Compression quality -> Increasing
Bandwidth to homes -> Increasing
# of Internet Connected displays in the home -> Increasing
New Generations of teens and 20 somethings -> Don't even watch content on TVs
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post #609 of 1354 Old 05-08-2014, 09:31 AM
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Sony is just trying any old excuse to push their own proprietary "cloud" system. More money for them... no royalty sharing. But with no competition do you think the prices for their movies will be low, do you think the A/V quality will be better than any disc based UHD format? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

There are far too many obstacles right now with the internet (especially in the U.S.) to completely give up on Blu-ray and move to a 100% web based solution.
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post #610 of 1354 Old 05-08-2014, 09:42 AM
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Personally, I hope that the UV library grows. I much prefer having a movie streamed/downloaded to my PS3 or whatever media to watch it. I have wholeheartidly embraded Vudu ... have 'uploaded' at least 200+ copies of my DVDs to their cloud. I took my older DVDs and for a few bucks, upgraded them to blu-ray quality aka HDX. Then I sold my DVDs ... I came out even because after I did all that, Vudu gave us a credit for the amount of movies we owned ... I literally received a $200 credit for converting my movies into their cloud. Not a bad deal!

 

Now, we just need Disney to jump on the UV bandwagon!

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post #611 of 1354 Old 05-08-2014, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by africanlivedit View Post

Personally, I hope that the UV library grows. I much prefer having a movie streamed/downloaded to my PS3 or whatever media to watch it. I have wholeheartidly embraded Vudu ... have 'uploaded' at least 200+ copies of my DVDs to their cloud. I took my older DVDs and for a few bucks, upgraded them to blu-ray quality aka HDX. Then I sold my DVDs ... I came out even because after I did all that, Vudu gave us a credit for the amount of movies we owned ... I literally received a $200 credit for converting my movies into their cloud. Not a bad deal!

Now, we just need Disney to jump on the UV bandwagon!

The trouble is that it isn't Blu-ray quality. Unless things have changed Vudu doesn't have lossless audio equal to or better than a title's Blu-ray counterpart, for one.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #612 of 1354 Old 05-08-2014, 09:46 AM
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Here in the UK blu rays movies are expensive when compared to DVD movies so people are buying DVD's over blu ray and the price difference is as much as 130% more for a blu ray disc.  Unless the price of the media drops nearer to DVD's sells will fall and fall.  I am put off with buying blu ray movies because of the high price.   

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post #613 of 1354 Old 05-08-2014, 09:49 AM
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The trouble is that it isn't Blu-ray quality. Unless things have changed Vudu doesn't have lossless audio equal to or better than a title's Blu-ray counterpart, for one.

 

 

You're correct but Vudu's streaming of video and audio is very impressive! Way better than Amazon and Netflix. The convenience factor alone is great ... Also, you can buy codes for movies for as little $3. I just got Gravity in HDX for $2.50!

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post #614 of 1354 Old 05-08-2014, 09:52 AM
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Like with VHS and cassette tape before, they need to lower the price of Blu-ray and phase DVD's out. Then actually market and explain the hell out of "4k" Blu-ray (which they really didn't do with regular Blu-ray) and offer features that are truly evolutionary in terms of color range, bit depth, and 3D audio. 3D video is dead, long live lossless 3D object audio! And don't jack the prices up for "4k" Blu-ray or it will die like 3D Blu-ray.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #615 of 1354 Old 05-08-2014, 10:14 AM
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I do not have a blue ray player and probably never will was I was dismayed when the media company's jumped to blue ray due to higher copy protection and Microsoft and Intel were on the side of HD but case of the better friendly capability of the HD-DVD format.
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post #616 of 1354 Old 05-08-2014, 10:27 AM
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If I can download "lossless" BluRay quality movies Im all in going diskless.  But there doesn't seem to be a big marketplace for 40-50GB digital movies outside of Cinema One.

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post #617 of 1354 Old 05-08-2014, 10:34 AM
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you would think 8 years of bluray is not a loss product. it lasted quite some time.

I know I rather stream something rather than buying/renting a BD movie because

1) it's cheaper
2) it's instant
3) the quality is good enough
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post #618 of 1354 Old 05-08-2014, 10:40 AM
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I like actually owning the media, so I can really watch anytime I want. The BIG downside to this is the model that the companies use to provide the movie on the current media...

Back when DVD was the hot thing I bought all kinds of movies. When HD-DVD came out I bought a few on that format. I was excited to see Transformers and 300 in all their glory, but that period was short-lived because HD-DVD lost a silly format war. Then I naturally went to Blu-Ray. Of course, along this path I had to re-buy a number of movies if I wanted to be able to watch them at the higher quality. This is a BIG problem for me, and one that I don't care to deal with again. I have bought a number of Blu-Rays, for sure, but always in the back of my mind is this very sour taste, knowing the next big technology is around the corner and I will likely have to re-buy my favorite movies again. It holds me back from buying anything but my absolute favorites.

I feel like the streaming format, or digital copy option, could help eliminate this concern... But I am not sure it actually does.
  1. I want to buy a movie ONCE and not have to pay for it again (and again). Perhaps a minimal upgrade fee for the remastered / new format ($5 or less?) but nothing more.
  2. I want to be able to watch my movies anytime I want, and not have to pay to watch them each time.
  3. I would really like to not require the internet to watch my movies. If this means I can download them ahead of time, for viewing when I am offline, that's fine.

If there is already a solution that offers all these advantages, I admit I am not fully versed. It seems to be a confusing market for the consumer these days -- I am in that boat. Greed seems to drive all of this, so I have a feeling that we will never get the perfect option for the consumer.
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post #619 of 1354 Old 05-08-2014, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowlopho View Post

you would think 8 years of bluray is not a loss product. it lasted quite some time.

I know I rather stream something rather than buying/renting a BD movie because

1) it's cheaper
2) it's instant
3) the quality is good enough
Good enough? Alrighty then.
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post #620 of 1354 Old 05-08-2014, 10:45 AM
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Before $$$$$ 4K will be come any were near main stream the TV need to come way down along with the media
but there been a diabolical plan to make more and more profit as when 8 tracks were replaced with new cassette which at first were just as expensive to make as all new tech usually is but a year after it release a cassettes was 1/4 the price so did that reduce the price Nope and when CD came out they were twice the price of a cassette but with in two year they became cheaper to make also but did the price go down? of course not and now that blue ray been out for a while its now under 2 dollars to press and package a disk so blue ray should not cost more the 1.50 more then a DVD
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post #621 of 1354 Old 05-08-2014, 10:48 AM
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I would love to see this 4k download work correctly on a 1.5 meg DSL connection or better yet an all wireless internet service. I have seen some small towns which have a central wireless transmitter and everybody accesses their internet from that signal. I suspect Sony is blowing smoke. They are spewing doom and gloom to the masses so they can force their 4k download service upon the masses. Shame on you Sony.
On a second thought, I think Sony is in trouble. There are a lot more competition now than ever before. Sony has been king for so many decades, I think they are having trouble competing in a flooded market.

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post #622 of 1354 Old 05-08-2014, 10:51 AM
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We have Netflix for both streaming and discs. The big problems are this:

1. Most titles are NOT available for instant streaming. Is there any service that offers most or all titles on streaming? We surely couldn't afford to subscribe to Netflix, Amazon, and Hulu all at the same time.
2. Discs these days are almost always a special "rent" version with ZERO special features.
3. Instant also has no special features available for titles.
4. Our Comcast internet service is capped at 300 GB per month. Last month we just barely went over that, solely because of Netflix viewing.

If I see a movie that I REALLY like, I almost always want to buy the BRD for the special features. Or there are series/collections that I like to collect all of (all the Pixar movies, all the Marvel Comics movies, etc). I don't see how streaming can compete until they offer ALL titles, and also offer the special features that the physical disc version offers.

Or does the regular population not even care about disc special features? Do most people have uncapped broadband connections? Those are two biggest factors against streaming. Do movies rented or purchased through iTunes offer the same special features available on discs?
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post #623 of 1354 Old 05-08-2014, 10:57 AM
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I understand the issue with changing formats fortunately for me I didn't have the money or desired to build VHS or DVD libraries. I have ended up buying more BRDs but most of them are lower cost older movies (I average around $5/movie), many with UV codes, I have no intention of ever replacing them with a 4K version. One of the main reasons I buy any movies is because i have cut the cord and want some stuff to fill in OTA and free streaming now and then. I doubt I will ever pay full price for a digital only movie, the reason I like UV so much is because they come with most of the BRDs I buy and because of the shared library feature. I can not stream in HDX ever and it can take hours to download so BRDs are actually easier for me to use but if my brother or sister (who share my UV account) bought it the price is right and I can deal with getting the movie downloaded biggrin.gif
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post #624 of 1354 Old 05-08-2014, 11:05 AM
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There is a solution to this problem. It's called 4K Blu-Ray. Physical media will be able to produce PQ that streaming can't match. Reviews of Netflix 4K are saying it's not much better than 1080p. The BDA needs to get their crap together, agree on a standard (which hopefully includes support for REC.2020 and HDR) and get it out as fast as possible. Not to mention, the average American household doesn't have the bandwidth to stream UHD.

Once 4K Blu-Ray is finally out they need to be aggressive with the pricing. The main reason DVD is taking so long to die off is because it's so cheap. Sure DVD doesn't look or sound as good but the average family doesn't really care. They'd rather save the extra $10 and let their TV upscale the movie. The same thing can easily happen this transition. They need to heavily advertise the advantages of 4K Blu-Ray and then price it at no more than $25 (for standard disk set). Then in order to eliminate confusion, the BDA should kill off 1080p Blu-Ray. Then they would have one format that looks great on 1080 displays and even better on a UHD display, all for the same price as a standard Blu-Ray. Sounds like a winner to me.

In my household we have access to very fast internet but unfortunately it gets bogged down quickly. Most days we have a PS4 that is downloading or playing online, a PS3 that is streaming HD Netflix and a computer that is streaming or surfing the web. That doesn't even include the portable devices. So for my household (and I'm sure many others are similar to mine) 4K Blu-Ray will be my only option for getting higher res content.

Blu-Ray never really caught on like DVD mainly because they have never made a useful to the average person recorder for most of the world. DVD is still hanging on because of several reasons...Manufacturers have long discounted this market and copy preventing legislation has made this market hard if not impossible here for Blu-Ray....

First because the average consumer still wants the option to be able to record their own discs at a reasonable price.

And the quality of the picture is really not that much above of a high res DVD, a recording from a source that allows for maximum for the format resolution recordings....

Then you throw the fact that outside of sports today most over the air programming is SD upconverted to HD, only a small % is in native HD....So what is the point of making a HD copy format for recording unconverted programming, at least that is how sony has looked at it......

HD recording to disc was a dead man walking format from the day laws were passed making home recording very restricted or impossible under the law.

And I have had this discussion here before, what is the point of going to UHD when there isn't likely to be any native programming for at least the next decade??????

.If sony wants this format to have a life for the coming years they need to figure out a way to make the format available to people like me they use a HDD DVD recorder every day. Give me and the rest of us that still use DVD a HDD Blu-Ray or just Blu-Ray recorder that I can for a reasonable price with discs and recorders can be gotten at a similar price to DVD stuff Blu-Ray will live to see another day....

Today you can go to your local walmart or whatever and still purchase a stand alone dvd recorder. But there has never here been a stand alone Blu-Ray recorder option.....
So Unless Blu-Ray is made available as a reasonably priced stand alone home recorder recording option, DVD will likely long outlive it.....or anything else that will come after it...
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post #625 of 1354 Old 05-08-2014, 11:07 AM
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What really baffles me is the fact that Sony hasn't capitalized on presenting a non-gaming version (think price-point) of the PS geared towards video to battle with Roku, WD Live, etc. I love my PS3 but hardly ever game. I have found it to be one of the most reliable video devices I've owned and is certainly the top pick in my house for streaming and BD. I bought a WD Live so I can watch saved movies but am still amazed that Sony didn't pick up on this market.
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post #626 of 1354 Old 05-08-2014, 11:11 AM
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Like with VHS and cassette tape before, they need to lower the price of Blu-ray and phase DVD's out. Then actually market and explain the hell out of "4k" Blu-ray (which they really didn't do with regular Blu-ray) and offer features that are truly evolutionary in terms of color range, bit depth, and 3D audio. 3D video is dead, long live lossless 3D object audio! And don't jack the prices up for "4k" Blu-ray or it will die like 3D Blu-ray.

 

The first step in phasing DVD out is to stop selling DVD-only players.  Blu-ray players can play everyone's old DVD's as well as Blu-rays and the prices on BD players are low enough now that anyone should be able to afford them.  Continuing to sell DVD-only players, at even lower prices, just leads to the customers who purchase them being locked into buying DVD's as their player won't play blu-rays.  Most of the people I know who still buy DVD's do so because they can't play anything else.  And most of the people I know who own blu-ray players, tend to purchase blu-ray discs over DVD's when given the choice.  Fewer and fewer homes still have standard def TV's in them.  The low prices on HDTV's for the last few years have led to mass adoption.  So, now people are actually able to see the difference between SD, 720, and 1080p content in their homes (provided they use the correct cable (HDMI).

 

The next step is to clear up the confusion that surrounds cables.  I think people see the wide selection of HDMI cable brands with huge disparity in pricing and it scares them off.  Standard speed HDMI cables shouldn't even be sold any more.  That just leads to problems.  All electronic stores should stock a quality High Speed HDMI cable in various lengths from 6' to at least 15', priced from $9 to $12.  Anything more expensive than that (i.e. Monster brand, Redmere cables, etc.) should be placed in another area (i.e. the back of the Magnolia Theater in Best Buy).  There is no reason to have more than minimal stock of composite, S-video, component, Optical, and digital coaxial cables and the section that contains the cables should clearly mark "Good", "Better", and "Best" to push folks towards the HDMI cables.  Some stores already do a decent job of this, but I still see many that don't.

 

The third step is for the studios to reduce the number of new releases on DVD or at least stagger release dates so that it comes out on blu-ray first.  People who want a new release sooner will have to buy the blu-ray or wait.

 

As far as the pricing on blu-ray titles goes, I don't know that they have as much wiggle room as other posters here seem to think.  They can't just arbitrarily lower the prices to match DVD's as they would then be losing money on every blu-ray disc sold.  I think most stores do a good job on the pricing of new releases.  And they generally do a decent job of dropping prices on titles that aren't selling well to get rid of the stock.  Other than that, I think the most I would cut prices by would be a couple bucks.  The biggest issue I see is the illogical organization of titles and the fact that you can't always find the movie you want, even if it is a fairly popular title (particularly the classics).  This (plus cheaper prices) is why I buy most of my blu-rays from Amazon these days.  If they can reduce the amount of shelf space being taken up by DVD then they should be able to carry a better selection of blu-ray discs without taking up additional valuable floor/shelf space.

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post #627 of 1354 Old 05-08-2014, 11:14 AM
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Read a lot of comments. The bottom line is this. Streaming will *eventually* take over media. However.. with all the net neutrality going on in the US.. and the fact that we're WAY behind other countries on very fast internet speeds to the house, and then you factor in most people.. no idea the percentage, but I'd guess at least 90% of the US population do not own high end audio/video setups.. plus some other factors.. and at least to me.. bluray 4K media is going to be around for a while. However.. like some others have said.. many of us with decent to good home theater setups that could enjoy the quality.. the costs of media is only worth while for audio/video extravagant movies. So basically action packed movies, which I don't know the percentage, but I am sure that's not more than about 20% if not less than all the different types of movies coming out year after year. Will it be worth Sony (and studios) if the costs of these media is high enough that those few of us with capable systems are only going to buy a small percentage of the media in the first place, to keep on churning them out and investing in it?

Keep in mind, google, att, and others are trying to get faster 50Mbps to 1Gbps connections to the house, and while I personally can't wait for that (assuming they don't put ridiculous 100MB or even 1GB caps on how much you can download and use for fear of those that will download movies, games, etc illegally), I think it's going to be several years from now, if not longer, before such speeds are common place, available and affordable.

Thus, if I am a betting man, the super slow streaming of lower quality video/audio is going to appeal to most of the paying consumers with their decent 1K to 2K 1080P 60" TVs and 3 speaker to 5.1 speaker setups that they can buy for a couple hundred bucks at Costco, Best Buy, etc and get more than good enough audio and video from, for the foreseeable future. Netflix, Amazon, google and others are all capitalizing on this right now and thus stand to make a boat load of money while Sony and other media makers are going to feel the pain year after year.

I for one, hope that we continue to provide media with all the beauty of 4K (soon) and HD with 7.1 surround audio that is not compressed (or low compression). I will continue to buy the movies on bluray that offer the audio and visual impact that makes it a better format than anything being streamed, especially because there is no waiting, buffering, hiccups, etc while playing it.

On a side note.. I was just reading aobut Pono (http://www.ponomusic.com) and while it's impressive.. I've been saying for years.. what we need in the audio world is multi-track songs. I want to mute the voice, the drums, the bass..whatever so that I can sing along or add in my own drums, etc. Sadly, I suspect it will never come about.. for any number of reasons.. but man it would take the music world by storm if we could have individual audio tracks of original songs so that we could really enjoy the music and experiment with it.
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post #628 of 1354 Old 05-08-2014, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by TSHA222 View Post

Good enough? Alrighty then.

yes, but of course, it's depending on the movie.

for hit blockbuster action lust / graphical pleasing movies like avatar / 300 / gravity / etc, you have to watch it on bluray.

for an average movie then streaming is good enough.
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post #629 of 1354 Old 05-08-2014, 11:51 AM
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I spent a fortune on vhs tapes and then moved on to dvd and spent yet another fortune on the discs.I will not do it again and I think a lot of people feel the same way.Im happy with dvd and will not go to blu ray.I know the quality is better but the prices are way to high for me.I still buy dvds and will continue.I like to have the physical media.As far as sony goes with there sales of blu ray I think a lot of people are happy with dvd and don't have money to buy them at the ridiculous prices they want.

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post #630 of 1354 Old 05-08-2014, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by HockeyoAJB View Post

The first step in phasing DVD out is to stop selling DVD-only players.  Blu-ray players can play everyone's old DVD's as well as Blu-rays and the prices on BD players are low enough now that anyone should be able to afford them.  Continuing to sell DVD-only players, at even lower prices, just leads to the customers who purchase them being locked into buying DVD's as their player won't play blu-rays.  Most of the people I know who still buy DVD's do so because they can't play anything else.  And most of the people I know who own blu-ray players, tend to purchase blu-ray discs over DVD's when given the choice.  Fewer and fewer homes still have standard def TV's in them.  The low prices on HDTV's for the last few years have led to mass adoption.  So, now people are actually able to see the difference between SD, 720, and 1080p content in their homes (provided they use the correct cable (HDMI).

The next step is to clear up the confusion that surrounds cables.  I think people see the wide selection of HDMI cable brands with huge disparity in pricing and it scares them off.  Standard speed HDMI cables shouldn't even be sold any more.  That just leads to problems.  All electronic stores should stock a quality High Speed HDMI cable in various lengths from 6' to at least 15', priced from $9 to $12.  Anything more expensive than that (i.e. Monster brand, Redmere cables, etc.) should be placed in another area (i.e. the back of the Magnolia Theater in Best Buy).  There is no reason to have more than minimal stock of composite, S-video, component, Optical, and digital coaxial cables and the section that contains the cables should clearly mark "Good", "Better", and "Best" to push folks towards the HDMI cables.  Some stores already do a decent job of this, but I still see many that don't.

The third step is for the studios to reduce the number of new releases on DVD or at least stagger release dates so that it comes out on blu-ray first.  People who want a new release sooner will have to buy the blu-ray or wait.

As far as the pricing on blu-ray titles goes, I don't know that they have as much wiggle room as other posters here seem to think.  They can't just arbitrarily lower the prices to match DVD's as they would then be losing money on every blu-ray disc sold.  I think most stores do a good job on the pricing of new releases.  And they generally do a decent job of dropping prices on titles that aren't selling well to get rid of the stock.  Other than that, I think the most I would cut prices by would be a couple bucks.  The biggest issue I see is the illogical organization of titles and the fact that you can't always find the movie you want, even if it is a fairly popular title (particularly the classics).  This (plus cheaper prices) is why I buy most of my blu-rays from Amazon these days.  If they can reduce the amount of shelf space being taken up by DVD then they should be able to carry a better selection of blu-ray discs without taking up additional valuable floor/shelf space.

This would make sense if you are trying to force people to leave DVD and go to Bluray by erasing their chosen format. If someone likes the DVD's they have and are only willing to spend the 12-17 dollars for buying disks (less for renting), then doing the above would suddenly present them with the need to buy a new player. Whether it's $70 or $150, it's a new player that they hadn't planned on.

We can wax poetic about the goodness of bluray, but if someone doesn't want a new player, trying to force them to buy one is not going to win any friends. A new bluray movie (not on the bargain bin) is somewhere in the low 20's to low 30's. No matter what profit anyone stands to make, a sure way to drive the average viewer to streaming is to dry up the DVD supply, I would think.

There's a reason that people haven't gone to bluray, despite most people having at least 720p capable TV's. I think it's price and convenience. Bluray is more expensive all around, and a duplication of what people already have. Is it better? definitely, more convenient? No. The whole process - buying, renting, loading a disk, even the extras are generally exactly the same. The improvement is in the quality, both in sound and video.

These are very important to me, which is why I have two players. But they are not as important to the average viewer, who only wants to watch a movie. Maybe using the computer speakers and from a DVD.

The step up to 4K bluray would be even a bigger step. You'd be asking people to spend more of a premium (remember how much the first bluray players cost?) for a player and to get a 4K capable display, then pay a premium for the disks. Probably the same step up to them as between DVDs and blurays.

I think that will be a hard sell for the DVD crowd. Not for me, I'm looking forward to it, so long as we get good content.
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