Sony Blames Blu-ray for "Bag of Hurt" - Page 37 - AVS Forum
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post #1081 of 1354 Old 05-30-2014, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by bobafetthotmail View Post

This is an example of what Sony came up with last year for their 4k streaming https://torrentfreak.com/sony-video-players-should-be-internet-connected-to-beat-pirates-130703/

It is rather locked down isn't it?
lol, so they want you to be connected to the internet at all times to watch a movie on a disk/HDD you already bought? And if the servers go down or there are technical issues then you can't watch the movie you already have stored locally? I can see that going over well. rolleyes.gif Isn't that the same thing Microsoft tried to do with the Xbox One and then had to backtrack because of all the backlash they got from the general public?

Intrusive DRM only inconveniences the honest buyer. Pirates will always find a way to get what they want, how they want it. Always have, always will. They're fighting a losing battle and should be trying to find ways to get these people to pay (less DRM, lower prices, get rid of region restrictions, device restrictions) rather than pushing them further and further away.
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post #1082 of 1354 Old 05-30-2014, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by STEELERSRULE View Post

And mark my words; the day of streaming a HUGE MOVIE on the day of it's release is coming very soon. Not talking about an independent film. I am talking like STAR WARS/MARVEL/DC COMICS movie release.

Please pay $50 to watch the new STAR WARS movie at home on the day it is released in HD/5.1 DD? People will pay it. Easy.

It is coming folks. It is coming.

I can imagine. Most people are paying £50 - £60 on the Playstation Store for new games. Most people are happy shelling out that for new games for download when you can get the physical copy half price or slightly more than half. Or wait a few weeks and it's severely discounted, up to a month give or take.
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Originally Posted by nrc2112 View Post

Sell off all your disks now - they will never be worth more than what they are today!

Get with the program and start streaming and going digital.

A lot you can't even give away here at times and the shops that you can trade in you're lucky if you will get 50p per film.

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Originally Posted by HockeyoAJB View Post

I'm pretty sure that most of us didn't buy our discs as an investment.  If you own a disc that you don't intend to watch again then, sure, sell it now.  Otherwise, the current/future value is irrelevant.

I'm already with the program.  I stream when watching a physical disc isn't an option and/or when the stream is free.  If you are suggesting that we should give up physical media and content ownership for good and just stream rentals then all I can say is "Sorry.  That doesn't work for me.  Try converting someone else."

Hindsight is a horrid thing at times. Purchasing DVD's was such a joy since 1998. Until Blu-Ray but then if one never done that one wouldn't have had the joy one has had. Just as one is having joy with Blu-Ray even though one has been purchasing all their old films again in Blu-Ray.

However, I'll always stick to Blu-Ray. I don't like the compressed downloads.
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post #1083 of 1354 Old 05-30-2014, 10:02 AM
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I would never buy a player that had to be connected to the internet. What about people that cannot afford the internet ?

Like others have said, it would probably be pirated anyways.

I don't like the idea of a company having control of my Home Theater.

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post #1084 of 1354 Old 05-30-2014, 11:14 AM
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IMO. our privacy is already invaded far too much via internet marketing and NSA spying... telephone too with the latter. I refuse to connect my Smart TV to the internet or cable. Give anyone control of my HT and/or my media? No thanks.
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post #1085 of 1354 Old 05-30-2014, 02:21 PM
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Funny you not being able to give Blurays away, I tried to sell some and store told me some titles were only worth a penny so they could not take them! LOL. I just took all my disks to the goodwill store as a donation. I am getting older and coming to the conclusion that buying stuff is just not necessary anymore so guess what this forum has done for me? I went through everything I have bought looking back and asking myself would I buy this stuff again today, the answer was no. So I gave it all away to charity. I have never felt so good before. So I am down to a panny plasma lower end model no 3d etc. and my Apple TV 3. No laptops, no game systems, or disks, not even any suits just jeans and t shirts. So liberating knowing I will not by spending money anymore except on necessities.
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post #1086 of 1354 Old 05-30-2014, 02:23 PM
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And I don't regret this at all.
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post #1087 of 1354 Old 05-30-2014, 03:03 PM
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This has nothing to do with Apple, its a ridiculous assertion that Apple not adopting BR and Steve Jobs' comments had any effect. It seems like typical Verge pandering to Apple.

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post #1088 of 1354 Old 05-30-2014, 03:07 PM
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Also you will find that outside this forum, I'd guess 75% of people who own a big Hdtv don't even have a sound system, let alone a surround sound system with decent fidelity. So of course they aren't going to appreciate sound quality increase from a disc.

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post #1089 of 1354 Old 05-30-2014, 05:18 PM
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post #1090 of 1354 Old 05-31-2014, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post


lol, so they want you to be connected to the internet at all times to watch a movie on a disk/HDD you already bought? And if the servers go down or there are technical issues then you can't watch the movie you already have stored locally? I can see that going over well. rolleyes.gif Isn't that the same thing Microsoft tried to do with the Xbox One and then had to backtrack because of all the backlash they got from the general public?

That's the way stuff is going, give or take. Hardware DRM is trash, and it always has been, games or media.

Mainly because making a decent DRM is expensive because they need to pay R&D costs for hardware, and doing something better than what there is already (and keep it patched) would cost them more than the loss of stuff with piracy.

 

By going the network way, they can find hundreds of decent turn-key solutions that are much much cheaper. Authentication servers are damn cheap, and usually pretty redundant.

 

XbOne fuss was an obvious marketing trick (the infrastructure needed to do what they claimed isn't cheap, and by launch it HAS to be online and tested already, they can't just go and say "nah, we don't want it anymore").

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post #1091 of 1354 Old 05-31-2014, 04:56 AM
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In my opinion DRM is a pretty big waist of money. The only reason to spend the money on and use DRM is if doing so increases the bottom line. From what I can see the professional thieves are not even slowed down by it, so that leaves using it to stop your paying costumers from using the product they bought the way they want. Any executive that thinks pissing off your paying customers and making your product hard to use is a good thing should be fired, and in my opinion that is all DRM does.
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post #1092 of 1354 Old 05-31-2014, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by atmusky View Post

In my opinion DRM is a pretty big waist of money. The only reason to spend the money on and use DRM is if doing so increases the bottom line. From what I can see the professional thieves are not even slowed down by it, so that leaves using it to stop your paying costumers from using the product they bought the way they want. Any executive that thinks pissing off your paying customers and making your product hard to use is a good thing should be fired, and in my opinion that is all DRM does.


It's more complex than that. They need to convince studios to give them movies and investors that the cash they are investing is safe (similar applies to game studios) or they have nothing to publish, which is worse than pissing off some customers that in most cases will still buy their stuff anyway because there is no real competition (apart from piracy that in most cases is constant, thus easy to predict and compensate for by raising prices).

 

Each new DRM is trumpeted as "safe" and that's all they really need if they just want something official to claim they are "taking measures to ensure safety" so others can officially claim to believe them and give them stuff to sell.

 

Also, none anywhere near the top of the food chain inside nearly all big companies has knowledge and skills relevant to that company (if any).

They hire consultants that usually are just mercenaries pushing the system/devices/softwares of their "sponsors" regardless of the actual interests of their customer.

Developing DRM is an industry in its own right, they will push their products.

 

The sad thing is that in this weird and mad circus the paying customers always get shafted.

 

The easy way would be to drastically lower prices. If you pay 9.99$ a blu-ray download and less for a 1080p movie, offer a very large and up-to-date repository with updated free additional material + updates and reviews + gadgets and stuff, with decent but not overtly annoying DRM, a ton of people will prefer that over piracy just because of convenience.

 

Google Store and iTunes try to be something of that kind, and they aren't crying crocodile tears over piracy like the other usual suspects. And still make tons of cash regardless of piracy.

 

 

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post #1093 of 1354 Old 05-31-2014, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by bobafetthotmail View Post

Google Store and iTunes try to be something of that kind, and they aren't crying crocodile tears over piracy like the other usual suspects. And still make tons of cash regardless of piracy.
Literally every half way popular tv show or movie has been ripped from itunes and put online free to download. The DRM was broken, and apple patched it, but you can still use a certain version of itunes and another program to remove the DRM. Like I said, pirates are relentless. They take pride in breaking DRM and putting up stuff for everyone to download. All of these companies are wasting their time with DRM. When apple removed DRM from their music store sales went up.
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post #1094 of 1354 Old 05-31-2014, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post


Literally every half way popular tv show or movie has been ripped from itunes and put online free to download. The DRM was broken, and apple patched it, but you can still use a certain version of itunes and another program to remove the DRM. Like I said, pirates are relentless. They take pride in breaking DRM and putting up stuff for everyone to download. All of these companies are wasting their time with DRM. When apple removed DRM from their music store sales went up.


As I said, DRM for Apple and Google is there mostly to reassure the companies that sell them the media that they are "secure" enough to be eligible for distribution, even if it is technically a lie. They cannot simply remove it, none will give them the stuff to sell.

 

Point is that neither Apple nor Google go on rampages like most other companies with RIAA and other similar lobbies nor harass content providers for not being harsh enough on piracy. Nor spam DMCA notices with questionable accuracy.

 

Google has rather intelligent views on the matter actually,

"We believe there is significant, credible evidence emerging that online piracy is primarily an availability and pricing problem,"

see here http://www.cnet.com/news/google-to-au-govt-piracy-is-down-to-pricing-availability/

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post #1095 of 1354 Old 05-31-2014, 07:13 PM
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If they doubled the price of Blu Rays, I would still buy them over streaming. If they doubled the price of CDs, I'd also still buy them over streaming. I still buy DVDs on a regular basis, and I won't stop doing that for streaming either.

If I want to watch a TV show, then I browse through these shelves (these are just TV shows)... my collection isn't huge, but that's because I only buy what I want to watch. If it isn't on disc now, it will be in six months or less, and I am more than happy to wait.



I have bought seasons of CSI for as low as £1.50 + £1.26 P&P. Why on earth would I stream for 99p an episode, when I can buy the physical discs for much, much less? Most of the time, I buy full seasons new for around £14. So for less than 50p an episode, I get something I can play whenever, or where ever I like, without having to think about my internet being a factor. If I wait a few weeks, I can pick up a used set, for even less. I mean, consider the series Flashforward, this isn't a new series (2009 according to Wikipedia), yet on Amazon, the full season in standard def is £21.99. I think I paid about £8 for it brand new on DVD just last year.

I never watch anything on a screen smaller than my 47 inch TV, unless it's youtube music videos. I cannot see the point in watching a film on a 10 inch screen, it's just pointless to me. That size screen isn't enjoyable, it's just convenient... and convenience has never been an advantage to me, when it comes to watching movies or TV shows.

If physical media does die out, then I'm glad I'll be long dead before it happens... even if it happens in 10 years.

Edit: Just noticed my maths is wrong on my episode pricing, it's about 59p... it is 3:30am here in the UK though, so I claim insanity due to lack of sleep. biggrin.gif
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post #1096 of 1354 Old 05-31-2014, 07:20 PM
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LeeC22,

Couldn't have said it better myself!!!!!smile.gifsmile.gif
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post #1097 of 1354 Old 05-31-2014, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobafetthotmail View Post



Each new DRM is trumpeted as "safe" and that's all they really need if they just want something official to claim they are "taking measures to ensure safety" so others can officially claim to believe them and give them stuff to sell.

Also, none anywhere near the top of the food chain inside nearly all big companies has knowledge and skills relevant to that company (if any).
They hire consultants that usually are just mercenaries pushing the system/devices/softwares of their "sponsors" regardless of the actual interests of their customer.
Developing DRM is an industry in its own right, they will push their products.

Couldn't agree more boba.
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post #1098 of 1354 Old 05-31-2014, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobafetthotmail View Post


Also, none anywhere near the top of the food chain inside nearly all big companies has knowledge and skills relevant to that company (if any).
They hire consultants that usually are just mercenaries pushing the system/devices/softwares of their "sponsors" regardless of the actual interests of their customer.
Developing DRM is an industry in its own right, they will push their products.

That's because the CEOs of most companies are on the boards of directors of so many other companies, they just move on to the next company they own a good amount of stock in if the one they're at doesn't work out for them. The board is more than happy to vote them in. These guys shuffle from one company to another, collecting big severance packages that earn them more money than if they had actually stayed.

If I got fired, I'd be out with nothing.

When these guys get fired, they get enough money for most people retire, but instead run off to some other company where they save money by laying of a few thousand workers, send their jobs to China, then get a massive bonus at the end of the year for lowering overhead. The problem is, they didn't actually increase revenue, so when there are no more expenses to cut, they have nothing to offer the next year and they take their severance package and start the cycle again at their competitor.

With me, they probably would love to have me sign a non-compete clause to prevent me from doing that very thing.

It's good to be king, I guess...
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post #1099 of 1354 Old 06-01-2014, 05:27 AM
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That's because the CEOs of most companies are on the boards of directors of so many other companies, they just move on to the next company they own a good amount of stock in if the one they're at doesn't work out for them. The board is more than happy to vote them in. These guys shuffle from one company to another, collecting big severance packages that earn them more money than if they had actually stayed.

If I got fired, I'd be out with nothing.

When these guys get fired, they get enough money for most people retire, but instead run off to some other company where they save money by laying of a few thousand workers, send their jobs to China, then get a massive bonus at the end of the year for lowering overhead. The problem is, they didn't actually increase revenue, so when there are no more expenses to cut, they have nothing to offer the next year and they take their severance package and start the cycle again at their competitor.

With me, they probably would love to have me sign a non-compete clause to prevent me from doing that very thing.

It's good to be king, I guess...

I think you've got a great point. I've been in start ups, seen this particular dance up front and personal. It feels like the benefits flow up to people who don't know or care about what is actually being done. So I agree completely.

The side that's lost though is that you don't leave with nothing, just like you didn't come in with nothing. You can actually do something valuable and that can't be taken from you. They do make more money, but they are only valuable if they clear the decks to make the path clear for real creative people.

I know someone who's a professional vice president. He travels from company to company, lasts a year or two, then goes to another clueless company that hires him because he's been a vice president elsewhere.

In the long view, you'll have produced things that last long or short times, but will actually have created something. Outside of money for kids that disdain them, what do they have? A simple conversation that fails to hold your interest should be enough of a clue. I talked with him about speakers once, he wanted to talk about his friend who bought 45000 dollar speakers, I wanted to talk about low priced speakers that sound like 45000 dollar speakers.
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post #1100 of 1354 Old 06-01-2014, 05:44 AM
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Simply: streaming has skimped on audio quality since most people don't care. When object oriented lossless audio arrives on streaming, i might be more interested.

Also, if I purchase a digital version of a movie, i don't want to be charged again when they "upgrade" the sound and video quality of the streaming since we know we were sold a hobbled version to begin with.

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post #1101 of 1354 Old 06-01-2014, 06:34 AM
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Simply: streaming has skimped on audio quality since most people don't care. When object oriented lossless audio arrives on streaming, i might be more interested.

Also, if I purchase a digital version of a movie, i don't want to be charged again when they "upgrade" the sound and video quality of the streaming since we know we were sold a hobbled version to begin with.

I agree. I think it's by necessity at least now, just to fit into the expected pandemic bandwidth. Once the bandwidth war is won, things may change even if it's just to standardize on one audio standard.

I've upgraded disks for several reasons, some because the first video versions were awful (Fifth Element, Gladiator), some because of improved audio (several of my HD-DVD's, DD+ or DTS to lossless), or just because they were "Directors Editions".

There are several DVD's that I would DEFINITELY buy again as blu, so for me, I don't have much issue with upgrading for different reasons.
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post #1102 of 1354 Old 06-02-2014, 09:53 AM
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I sold all my Blu-rays last week. I didn't feel the slightest twinge of guilt. The only surprise is how much more used 3D Blu-rays are worth, when compared to 2D editions. Lately, I've been hard-pressed to see or hear enough of a difference between Vudu HDX and Blu-ray to make buying discs worthwhile. I'd rather rent (and occasionally buy) HDX titles. The main reason I buy a movie these days (instead of renting) is if it's a digital early release and I'm fairly confident I'll want to watch it twice, or watch it in two parts.

The main reason I'd still buy a Blu-ray going forward is for 3D.
Mark now that your using VUDU more can you tell us your home theater setup please?
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post #1103 of 1354 Old 06-04-2014, 07:57 AM
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LOL. Good luck streaming your 4K movies. The kicker is they probably only have less than 100,000 customers trying to stream 4K.

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post #1104 of 1354 Old 06-04-2014, 08:50 AM
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(from last page) HDCP is ridiculous. As soon as the codes on the devices (such as on a TV) were cracked, it became completely useless.

 

Now all it does is piss off customers and cause headaches for tech support people.  All DRM ever does is piss off and hurt paying customers. For all their money and brain power, companies are so stupid sometimes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*edit* devices

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post #1105 of 1354 Old 06-04-2014, 09:11 AM
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(from last page) HDCP is ridiculous. As soon as the codes on the deives (such as on a TV) were cracked, it became completely useless.

Now all it does is piss off customers and cause headaches for tech support people.  All DRM ever does is piss off and hurt paying customers. For all their money and brain power, companies are so stupid sometimes.

Stupid and too greedy for their own good.
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post #1106 of 1354 Old 06-04-2014, 09:17 AM
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Hdcp only prevents the casual customer from copying stuff. Really though with the advent of ebay and whatnot, the budget customer can buy a TON of older bluray for cheap anyway. They should eliminate the DRM on older releases/re-releases at least.

Commercials and previews on purchased discs MUST GO. WTF is this nonsense when the same streamed purchase has none of this.

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post #1107 of 1354 Old 06-04-2014, 11:42 AM
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Un-fast-forward-able content on discs MUST go too.

 

Man that is annoying watching 10 full seconds of FBI piracy messages.. (seems like 5 minutes) then same for rated R warning, then again for some other BS. 

 

 

Terrible, terrible, terrible crap they try to ram down your throat, and then they wonder why people pirate, or stream, or borrow, or rent, or go outside and say "F U" to movies in general.


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post #1108 of 1354 Old 06-04-2014, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BWX View Post
 

Un-fast-forward-able content on discs MUST go too.

 

Man that is annoying watching 10 full seconds of FBI piracy messages.. (seems like 5 minutes) then same for rated R warning, then again for some other BS. 

 

 

Terrible, terrible, terrible crap they try to ram down your throat, and then they wonder why people pirate, or stream, or borrow, or rent, or go outside and say "F U" to movies in general.

I had customers and friends that asked me to rip their blurays and DVDs because of this. They even "gifted" me the disks afterwards. Lol. :D

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post #1109 of 1354 Old 06-04-2014, 10:09 PM
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Hi to everyone here,

 

I had a vision several years ago concerning the format wars.

 

You log onto a website.

 

You select the movie you want to stream, price will depend on age only.

 

You select the format from one of the following formats. 480p, 720p, 1080p, 2048p.

 

You stream the movie.

 

Simple, easy etc.

 

One final thought, once you have paid to watch that movie, it is free from there on, in any format you want to watch it.

 

Now that would be a perfect world, no need for 4K BD players and firmware updates etc.

 

It could also stream it to a storage device like a PC, for play later, just in case your internet connection dies.

 

But this is all fantasy, the movie companies would never do this as they would not make money on re-releases to customers who have already watched it in a lower format !

 

Plus they would lose sales on all those people that lost a format on DVD or BD wouldn't re-purchase what they already previously have purchased and want to watch again.

 

But in an ideal fair world this is probably what would have been created for media viewers.

 

They could charge $50 say for same day to 3 month old releases, say $25 for 3 month to 6 month old releases and maybe $5 for releases 6 month to 1 year old releases and finally $1 for all releases older than 1 year.

 

For encryption maybe a usb stick with a chip on it.

 

This way as long as you have your usb stick and know the pin number you can watch it anywhere, eg friends house, on a laptop - where ever you want etc.

 

The USB will be coded to you, so if you lose it, no one else can you use it without the pin and replacing it would be like getting you bank card replaced or in the UK like getting your Sky card replaced.

 

This could also be done for music !

 

Maybe the USB stick could also be a 32GB memory stick or bigger, I'm not sure how big a 4K movie would be atm !

 

Anyway, it was just vision !

 

Any thoughts on this ?

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post #1110 of 1354 Old 06-04-2014, 10:17 PM
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One last negative thought on this vision.

 

The storage manufacturers might not like this idea as most people purchase large storage or lots of storage because of movies !

 

So if this idea took off why would they need lots of storage !

 

So Seagate, WD and all the other Storage suppliers might be a little pissed if it were to happen.

 

And the vision it is not iTunes or Amazon etc, before anyone says something on those lines !

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