Sony Blames Blu-ray for "Bag of Hurt" - Page 41 - AVS Forum
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post #1201 of 1394 Old 06-13-2014, 05:09 PM
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Looks nice. Shame their IR codes are not available anywhere. i would need for a URC system

Regards

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It was a breeze setting up my Harmony One for this device. The IOS remote app works even better...all the buttons on the original remote are duplicated on it and it allows you to control the device from another room. Is it not possible to program your URC system manually?
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post #1202 of 1394 Old 06-13-2014, 09:45 PM
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According to Sony Europe, the final standards (physical, compression type, etc.) for UHD Blu-Ray Disc will be finalized by the end of 2014. They expect the new discs to be unveiled at the Berlin IFA show in September, with the first movies to be available in 2015. Below are a couple of articles I found on the subject of 4K BD:

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/bda-4k-201401093581.htm
http://www.projectorreviews.com/tech...te-april-2014/
OK. So based on the second link it sounds like it got pushed back. Since they said unofficially that the players would be out in holiday 2015 instead of Holiday 2014 like was planned.

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post #1203 of 1394 Old 06-13-2014, 10:59 PM
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Streaming has its pluses, but long term ownership is not necessarily one of them. The chances of your current HDX titles still being available a couple decades from now is probably lower than the chances of your discs lasting that long and being able to find a working player. They will likely be two generations of digital media past HDX by then.
I learned the hard way that streaming content providers can and will happily cut you off from your entire collection of purchased content. I recently found myself blocked from Vudu even though I never violated their terms of service. You can make hundreds or thousands of dollars in movie purchases with them, and their terms of service allow them to cut you off at any time for any reason: "We reserve the right to terminate your VUDU Account and/or your use and access to the VUDU Service at any time with or without cause."

"No problem," I thought, "I've got UltraViolet rights. I'll just go to another UltraViolet partner." That's when I found out that HDX (1080p) purchases at Vudu only come with standard-definition UltraViolet rights. I can watch my movies on Target Ticket, but they're blurry 480p.

The only safe way to protect your purchased high-def content is Blu-ray.
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post #1204 of 1394 Old 06-14-2014, 10:13 AM
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James what was the reason Vudu gave for cutting you off? I find it very interesting that they can do this as you've purchased those titles and technically is property you own. Sounds like a lawsuit to me.
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post #1205 of 1394 Old 06-14-2014, 10:18 AM
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That seems bizarre. Why would a company terminate you without causeā€¦
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post #1206 of 1394 Old 06-14-2014, 08:10 PM
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James what was the reason Vudu gave for cutting you off? I find it very interesting that they can do this as you've purchased those titles and technically is property you own. Sounds like a lawsuit to me.
Actually, you don't own them at all. You're basically "renting" a license indefinitely. I've seen this happen to people on Steam who have lost their entire library because they did something/accused of doing something that Valve didn't like.
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post #1207 of 1394 Old 06-14-2014, 08:30 PM
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Rockefeller plan is to put a microchip in each persons arm as a personal ID, Wallet, Health Care, etc.. from birth.
Technology of the future right?

It also allows him to have total control of this persons.
One click of a button and you don't have money to eat, you starve and die.
Or you will not be able to watch you rightfully owned movies.

Have fun with digital rights,
I want my physical copy, whether its Money or a Blu-Ray disk.

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post #1208 of 1394 Old 06-14-2014, 09:13 PM
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James what was the reason Vudu gave for cutting you off? I find it very interesting that they can do this as you've purchased those titles and technically is property you own. Sounds like a lawsuit to me.
Actually, you don't own them at all. You're basically "renting" a license indefinitely. I've seen this happen to people on Steam who have lost their entire library because they did something/accused of doing something that Valve didn't like.
Usually for modifying their files to cheat in games and not matching the hash keys for legit files.
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post #1209 of 1394 Old 06-15-2014, 06:51 AM
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Rockefeller plan is to put a microchip in each persons arm as a personal ID, Wallet, Health Care, etc.. from birth.
Technology of the future right?

It also allows him to have total control of this persons.
One click of a button and you don't have money to eat, you starve and die.
Or you will not be able to watch you rightfully owned movies.

Have fun with digital rights,
I want my physical copy, whether its Money or a Blu-Ray disk.
I hate dealing with physical money. I wish it was all digital.

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post #1210 of 1394 Old 06-15-2014, 11:14 AM
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I hate dealing with physical money. I wish it was all digital.
I agree, my analogy was not a very good one.

But still, Is "owning digital rights" is actually owning?
I say No.

What can you actually do when a big company decides to close your account and digital rights for whatever reason?
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post #1211 of 1394 Old 06-15-2014, 11:52 AM
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James what was the reason Vudu gave for cutting you off? I find it very interesting that they can do this as you've purchased those titles and technically is property you own. Sounds like a lawsuit to me.
Actually, you don't own them at all. You're basically "renting" a license indefinitely. I've seen this happen to people on Steam who have lost their entire library because they did something/accused of doing something that Valve didn't like.
Usually for modifying their files to cheat in games and not matching the hash keys for legit files.
Wat? Most of the bans are for people reselling keys exploiting gift system (buy stuff in account from Russia or whatever other place where price is lower and gift it to people in a place where price is higher) or doing shenanigans involving trade speculation and bots.
The keyword is "money".

Steam does not usually give a damn about cheating and modding not involving money, but the multiplayer games usually require some kind of registration and account on their own servers. If you cheat or hack the game, that is the account that gets banned.
You are free to hack and mod single player games, just turn off the automatic update checks or it will read your mods as file corruption and "fix" the issue by downloading the game again. (Fallout 3 and New Vegas or say X3 Reunion or Terran Conflict for example)

This logic remains more or less the same for a digital movie distribution system. If they think you are stockpiling keys or selling stuff or doing weird things with gift codes/copouns you can get banned and lose all your stuff overnight with no appeal.

With physical disks this cannot happen. No matter their DRM, they cannot prevent me from watching stuff I bought on a disk.
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post #1212 of 1394 Old 06-15-2014, 03:06 PM
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James what was the reason Vudu gave for cutting you off? I find it very interesting that they can do this as you've purchased those titles and technically is property you own. Sounds like a lawsuit to me.
Actually, you don't own them at all. You're basically "renting" a license indefinitely. I've seen this happen to people on Steam who have lost their entire library because they did something/accused of doing something that Valve didn't like.
Usually for modifying their files to cheat in games and not matching the hash keys for legit files.
Wat? Most of the bans are for people reselling keys exploiting gift system (buy stuff in account from Russia or whatever other place where price is lower and gift it to people in a place where price is higher) or doing shenanigans involving trade speculation and bots.
The keyword is "money".

Steam does not usually give a damn about cheating and modding not involving money, but the multiplayer games usually require some kind of registration and account on their own servers. If you cheat or hack the game, that is the account that gets banned.
You are free to hack and mod single player games, just turn off the automatic update checks or it will read your mods as file corruption and "fix" the issue by downloading the game again. (Fallout 3 and New Vegas or say X3 Reunion or Terran Conflict for example)

This logic remains more or less the same for a digital movie distribution system. If they think you are stockpiling keys or selling stuff or doing weird things with gift codes/copouns you can get banned and lose all your stuff overnight with no appeal.

With physical disks this cannot happen. No matter their DRM, they cannot prevent me from watching stuff I bought on a disk.
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_...7849-RADZ-6869
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post #1213 of 1394 Old 06-15-2014, 03:57 PM
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Did you read it?
It prevents banned people from playing on VAC-secured game servers. It does not mention Steam account ban/deletion. It's Valve's little Anti-Cheat pet project, not a Steam feature.

To the contrary of what they say, they did lift VAC bans if it was indeed a false positive or a plain screwup.

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post #1214 of 1394 Old 06-17-2014, 06:49 AM
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post #1215 of 1394 Old 06-17-2014, 07:18 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by smarcus3

Agreed. ISPs def stand in the way. BTW to get Blu Ray streaming you need a constant internet speed plus backend servers to support 20+ Mbps


4K streams from YouTube clock around 20 Mbps...
And they look about the same as a Blu-ray at 1080p because their 1080p looks more like 720p, etc., etc.. Their files are too compressed. And that will be a problem with cloud based services. Studios won't want to have massive storage centers. They're too damned cheap.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #1216 of 1394 Old 06-17-2014, 09:15 AM
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And they look about the same as a Blu-ray at 1080p because their 1080p looks more like 720p, etc., etc.. Their files are too compressed. And that will be a problem with cloud based services. Studios won't want to have massive storage centers. They're too damned cheap.
The problem isn't hosting. Hosting with large bandwith (to the server) is cheap nowadays (relatively speaking anyway), especially since the server isn't doing anything really heavy (no multi-user database work, no websites with scripts and stuff).

Here the issue is the customer's internet that, in the overwhelming majority of cases, is unable to provide the speed/reliability needed to stream.
In the cases where it can there are no guarantees that it will hold under the weight of increased usage. (as more and more people start streaming stuff, bandwith gets bogged down)
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post #1217 of 1394 Old 06-17-2014, 09:43 AM
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The problem isn't hosting. Hosting with large bandwith (to the server) is cheap nowadays (relatively speaking anyway), especially since the server isn't doing anything really heavy (no multi-user database work, no websites with scripts and stuff).

Here the issue is the customer's internet that, in the overwhelming majority of cases, is unable to provide the speed/reliability needed to stream.
In the cases where it can there are no guarantees that it will hold under the weight of increased usage. (as more and more people start streaming stuff, bandwith gets bogged down)
I expect that there are technical reasons why this wouldn't work, but I've often wondered why no one has come up with a streaming service geared towards videophiles...a service that would provide (and charge extra for) high-bitrate, ultra-high quality video and uncompressed multichannel audio. Sort of like what Criterion does for movies on disc. Then you could have 1080p streams that were completely indistinguishable from Blu-Ray, and 4K streams that were worthy of your high-end UHD display.
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post #1218 of 1394 Old 06-17-2014, 11:03 AM
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I expect that there are technical reasons why this wouldn't work, but I've often wondered why no one has come up with a streaming service geared towards videophiles..
Well, big technical difficulties require tons of cash to overcome.
This rules out small players and startups and leaves only the same big companies that have the budget needed to do it. We all know they don't have good reflexes.

Still, the ball is rolling, and stuff is happening.

Since convincing ISPs to actually place more cables so everyone can have more bandwith is not going to happen without army intervention, there are two main workarounds being actively pursued.

First: allow the ISP to give Premium treatment to a customer or company needing bandwith that can pay for it, see this thread FCC Tries Again to Establish Open Internet Rules The current situation is called "internet neutrality" and for now the ISP cannot do that, it must share available bandwith EQUALLY with every customer (only limit is the max speed in the contract). If too much people want fast download speeds this system means everyone gets crap download speed as speed is shared with everyone. With Premium system, the ISP throttles other customers to make sure the Premium ones are well-served. I'm not a fan of this system, but given the mentality in the US, it's probably going to happen soon.

Second: allow the users to download the media in a relatively secure storage system and let them download it overnight. Google Play is doing this (afaik it does not offer media higher than 1080p, but that system is supposed to be useful for people having crappy connections that can't stream decently even 720p or people with a mobile device that will be connected to high-speed internet only when at home/work)
Kaleidescape announced it was going to do that Kaleidescape Settles Lawsuit With DVD CCA but it is a bit high-end.
Sony has a similar but fully proprietary 4k streaming system and mediabox compatible only with their own TVs (surprise surprise, lol ) https://torrentfreak.com/sony-video-...irates-130703/

Systems that allow a "download and play after a while" are seen as "less secure from piracy" than physical copy or streaming by content makers (the studios and whoever makes movies/music/whatever), while this is a curious belief, it's hard to convince them that it is profitable. And unless they give out movies to these systems at full bluray (or better) quality, there is no way to prove them it is profitable.
Sony here has an advantage, because it is doing all in-house (as it has a movie making branch), while Kaleidescape is not.
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post #1219 of 1394 Old 06-17-2014, 11:34 AM
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I expect that there are technical reasons why this wouldn't work, but I've often wondered why no one has come up with a streaming service geared towards videophiles...a service that would provide (and charge extra for) high-bitrate, ultra-high quality video and uncompressed multichannel audio. Sort of like what Criterion does for movies on disc. Then you could have 1080p streams that were completely indistinguishable from Blu-Ray, and 4K streams that were worthy of your high-end UHD display.
I assume you mean losslessly compressed audio since nobody (not even physical media) sends you content with uncompressed audio. There is no reason to do so when lossless gives you the same thing for far less bandwidth.

In any case, the reason that no such streaming service exists is because there are not enough potential customers available who would be able to stream it to make such a service profitable without charging an arm and a leg. Once you take the price necessary to produce a profit into consideration, the number of potential customers who can afford it gets smaller, which just increases the price necessary to make a profit even further. Unless you have a thousand buddies who have a guaranteed minimum bandwidth of at least 20 Mbps for 1080p or 40 Mbps for 4K and are all willing to pay $1000 per month for such a service then this just isn't practical, yet.

For now, your best option for streaming is probably Vudu HDX for 1080p and Netflix/YouTube for 4K. If those do not meet your standards then I would suggest physical media (Blu-Ray) for 1080p and downloaded 4K content via. a Sony 4K TV/projector with the FMP-X10 4K media server and the forthcoming Sony Video Unlimited service. Still not good enough? There's always D-cinema or PRIMA Cinema...
http://viahome.com/d-cinema-prima-ci...-home-theater/
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post #1220 of 1394 Old 06-17-2014, 06:46 PM
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James what was the reason Vudu gave for cutting you off?
I started contributing to the Tor project by running a Tor middle relay from my home computer. I didn't use Tor to access Vudu, which would be a violation of the terms of service. Nor did I run an exit relay that would allow others to access Vudu from my IP address. But because my IP address was related to the Tor project, they blocked my IP address. The IP block remained even after I stopped running Tor.

To be clear: Nothing I did violated Vudu's terms of service. I didn't use Tor to access Vudu. Because I wasn't running an exit node, no Tor user in the world could access Vudu from my IP address.

Hulu also blocked my IP address, but I contacted them and they whitelisted my IP. They even credited my account for the time I was blocked. Vudu doesn't have a method for whitelisting IP addresses.

The problem for me was that these companies know what Tor is, but they apparently don't know the difference between an exit relay and a middle relay so they just block everything out of ignorance. Anyone who is using Tor to access Vudu will be coming from an exit relay, not a middle relay.

Anyway, I'm not blocked from Vudu anymore. I followed their advice and released my IP address. Now some other Verizon FiOS customer who has my old IP address is blocked from Vudu. I feel bad about that, but it's Vudu's fault for engaging in overkill.

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I find it very interesting that they can do this as you've purchased those titles and technically is property you own. Sounds like a lawsuit to me.
A lawsuit wouldn't go far. All customers agree to the terms of service which Vudu wrote in its favor. The terms of service is quite clear that Vudu can cut us off "at any time with or without cause."

Vudu simply lost me as a paying customer.

Meanwhile, Amazon Prime Video didn't block me at all, which doesn't surprise me. I think of them as a bit more tech-savvy than Walmart (the owner of Vudu).
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post #1221 of 1394 Old 06-17-2014, 07:13 PM
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This is what I have been discussing. The problems are just starting with streaming/downloads. I have one answer: Stick with Physical Media!
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post #1222 of 1394 Old 06-17-2014, 07:42 PM
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As i have said in other posts, the Blu-Ray Disk Association(BDA) has no focus and the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing. It is only fitting that Sony, a BDA member, would accuse Blu-Ray for there problem. Yet Sony has been saying for the past two years demand for Blu-Ray is dropping faster than expected. Outside of 1080P, future 4K and 3D, Blu-Ray does not offer that much more than streaming or downloaded media. In my area, Comcast is cashing in on it's ISP business, while the cable TV side plummets to record lows. There cashing in by moving more over the cable for ISP as more customers want higher speeds and less are getting TV. For years there 100Mbs business account had a 500GB cap. I have exceeded that many times since they stopped enforcing it and had almost 1TB last month. If the FCC and ISP providers would talk more, it is clear what we want, faster, better service.

It is hard to stomach $35.00 for a movie that will be shown on Netflix as part of your $7.99 monthly fee. It is also hard to pay the $35.00 when you can get it a month early on download from Amazon Prime or VUDU for $15.99.

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post #1223 of 1394 Old 06-17-2014, 07:59 PM
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One area where blu-ray provides excellent value and convenience is when whole seasons or series of TV shows such as Breaking Bad, Lost, Battlestar Galatica become available, as they usually end up doing so. As someone who lives in Australia I have been able to watch these shows in the highest quality possible, when I want to watch them (including too many late night binges ) and at a very cheap per episode price. And after a year or two I can watch the best series again and see things I missed in the first time around.
I think, and hope, that series such as House of Cards and Game of Thrones will continue to be available on blu-ray and then 4k blu-ray, as I am sure that the creators of such shows make plenty of profit from their blu-ray sales.
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post #1224 of 1394 Old 06-17-2014, 09:16 PM
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As i have said in other posts, the Blu-Ray Disk Association(BDA) has no focus and the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing. It is only fitting that Sony, a BDA member, would accuse Blu-Ray for there problem. Yet Sony has been saying for the past two years demand for Blu-Ray is dropping faster than expected. Outside of 1080P, future 4K and 3D, Blu-Ray does not offer that much more than streaming or downloaded media. In my area, Comcast is cashing in on it's ISP business, while the cable TV side plummets to record lows. There cashing in by moving more over the cable for ISP as more customers want higher speeds and less are getting TV. For years there 100Mbs business account had a 500GB cap. I have exceeded that many times since they stopped enforcing it and had almost 1TB last month. If the FCC and ISP providers would talk more, it is clear what we want, faster, better service.

It is hard to stomach $35.00 for a movie that will be shown on Netflix as part of your $7.99 monthly fee. It is also hard to pay the $35.00 when you can get it a month early on download from Amazon Prime or VUDU for $15.99.

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post #1225 of 1394 Old 06-17-2014, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by catonic View Post
One area where blu-ray provides excellent value and convenience is when whole seasons or series of TV shows such as Breaking Bad, Lost, Battlestar Galatica become available, as they usually end up doing so. As someone who lives in Australia I have been able to watch these shows in the highest quality possible, when I want to watch them (including too many late night binges ) and at a very cheap per episode price. And after a year or two I can watch the best series again and see things I missed in the first time around.
I think, and hope, that series such as House of Cards and Game of Thrones will continue to be available on blu-ray and then 4k blu-ray, as I am sure that the creators of such shows make plenty of profit from their blu-ray sales.
It's definitely much better looking on the BD than the SUper HD 1080P Netflix stream. There is a huge difference between the two with House of Cards Season 1 and Season 2. I just got Season 2 in the mail today.

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post #1226 of 1394 Old 06-18-2014, 04:03 AM
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...
It is hard to stomach $35.00 for a movie that will be shown on Netflix as part of your $7.99 monthly fee. It is also hard to pay the $35.00 when you can get it a month early on download from Amazon Prime or VUDU for $15.99. ...
I made a comment about pricing someplace back a few hundred posts ago. The reality is the price of access to video varies greatly and it doesn't matter if you are talking about going to a movie theater, renting or purchasing physical media, or renting or purchasing access to digital media. I just purchased all 10 of the Star Trek movies before the 2009 reset new on BRD from Amazon - the cost was $5.10 each (including tax and shipping), currently Amazon wants $15 per movie to buy the digital versions and Vudu wants more than that. Similarly I have purchased many movies on BRD that came with UV codes for less than the cost of buying the digital only version. Same for renting $1.50 at red box same movie from Vudu $4-5 for HDX.

Most of the people I know don't have good enough Internet access to stream Vudu HDX or if they do have enforced caps. I can only use Vudu if I can download the movie because my supposedly 6Mbs DSL can not even stream SD from Vudu most nights. Until these issues are fixed I sure hope solid Media stays around.
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post #1227 of 1394 Old 06-18-2014, 05:02 AM
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Plus the fact the the costs associated with streaming and downloads are only going to keep going up. You watch.
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post #1228 of 1394 Old 06-18-2014, 08:17 AM
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Plus the fact the the costs associated with streaming and downloads are only going to keep going up. You watch.
Yep.

From an unofficial UltraViolet streaming FAQ:
"Online access to movies in your UltraViolet Library is provided by services that participate in UltraViolet. Most of them provide free streams and downloads, but there is no obligation for them to provide free access forever."

VUDU Terms of Service:

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post #1229 of 1394 Old 06-18-2014, 09:07 AM
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Once you "allow" them to get you over a barrel... they have you over a barrel... and there's no escaping the the discomfort that follows.

"A bird (BRD) in the hand is worth two in the bush (a cloud)".

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post #1230 of 1394 Old 06-18-2014, 12:03 PM
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I like your analogy. Ha!
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