Sony Blames Blu-ray for "Bag of Hurt" - Page 43 - AVS Forum
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post #1261 of 1394 Old 06-21-2014, 11:11 AM
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* GASP!! * You mean big business will try to cheat me?? Especially NOT US corporations... you can't mean that!!

Good luck to those who think Big Business... or Big Brother... has our backs. Nope, they have our backsides... if we let them.
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post #1262 of 1394 Old 06-21-2014, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sytech View Post
Here is another example of how a digital only world is bad for the consumer. Higher prices.

http://kotaku.com/playstation-now-pr...ane-1594025919
$8 for a seven day rental sounds pretty good to me. Now the $4.99 for four hours is high but $15 for thirty days and $30 for ninety days does not sound very high to me either.

That is just the price you pay to play an old game on new system. If you really wanted to play the game people would have kept their old PS3 units and either purchased or rented the game. I don't see an issue with the prices. But I also don't have any real desire to play a bunch of last generation games on a current generation system.

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post #1263 of 1394 Old 06-21-2014, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
$8 for a seven day rental sounds pretty good to me. Now the $4.99 for four hours is high but $15 for thirty days and $30 for ninety days does not sound very high to me either.
You're kidding, right? You can almost buy some of these PS3 games outright on a disc for the cost of a 90-day rental. Plus, there were complaints about Sony's streaming quality and extremely laggy games.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #1264 of 1394 Old 06-21-2014, 02:20 PM
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I haven't seem any streaming option that comes close to the bit-rate of BR. I enjoy VuDu for a quick rental of an average movie that I have no interest in owning. But watch an action film with anything highly dynamic and complex on the screen, and I am pulled right out of the film as I cringe at the severe compression artifacts and blocking. I'll stick with blu-ray for any film that is worth owning (and it will likely include a digital copy anyway)
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post #1265 of 1394 Old 06-21-2014, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
You're kidding, right? You can almost buy some of these PS3 games outright on a disc for the cost of a 90-day rental. Plus, there were complaints about Sony's streaming quality and extremely laggy games.
No I'm not kidding. That is the price you pay for not keeping your old system. If someone wanted to play these old games, I have no idea why you would want to do it from a streaming service on a current gen system. That is the worst way I could think of playing these games. People should have kept their old PS3.

I traded in my PS3 last year when I was able to get around $200 store credit for it. But I also never really used my PS3 for games since the controller screwed with my hands. But even if I had used it for games, there are very few last gen games that I would go back to play again.

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post #1266 of 1394 Old 06-21-2014, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by nrc2112 View Post
There was a problem with a cc when I renewed subscription to HULU PLUS on APPLE TV. I could not access any of my content until this problem was fixed.

I was a strong advocate for digital as many of my posts state, never again!

APPLE CAN AND WILL BLOCK YOU FROM YOUR PURCHASES.
What does Hulu Plus have to do with Apple TV? Yes, you can watch Hulu Plus on Apple TV, but they are completely different companies. You don't own any Hulu Plus content. It's a subscription service only.

I subscribe to Hulu Plus and own a Roku. Perhaps it's different from the way Apple TV works, but if I had a payment problem with Hulu Plus, Roku wouldn't have a clue. They're different companies.

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You do not own jack. From now on I will only rent and not from APPLE.

Bruce Willis has amassed a huge collection of music from ITUNES and wanted to will it to his daughters, guess what, he cannot.
iTunes music is completely DRM-free! Once you've downloaded it, Apple cannot block you from it. (The same is not true for iTunes books and movies.)
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post #1267 of 1394 Old 06-21-2014, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by notabadname View Post
I haven't seem any streaming option that comes close to the bit-rate of BR. I enjoy VuDu for a quick rental of an average movie that I have no interest in owning. But watch an action film with anything highly dynamic and complex on the screen, and I am pulled right out of the film as I cringe at the severe compression artifacts and blocking. I'll stick with blu-ray for any film that is worth owning (and it will likely include a digital copy anyway)
What bit-rate is your broadband Internet service? Who is your ISP?

I just watched G.I. Joe Retaliation last night via Amazon Prime Video on Roku. I have Verizon FiOS 15/5 broadband. I was truly impressed with the quality of the video and especially the surround sound audio. In fact, the sound was better than Blu-ray because I didn't hear a disc spinning.

I also found the Amazon Prime Video Roku app to be very responsive when fast forwarding and rewinding. It was better than my Blu-ray player and much better than the Hulu Plus app on Roku (which is barely passable).
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post #1268 of 1394 Old 06-22-2014, 05:49 AM
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Question

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Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post
...are there any [legal, not pirated] downloading services where you can BUY content free-and-clear and then do with it as you want (e.g. keep forever on HDD or burn to BD-R)?
Was this a dumb question? No such thing?
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post #1269 of 1394 Old 06-22-2014, 05:59 AM
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I'll agree to disagree with your assessment of the streaming quality versus Blu-ray. There is no comparison if using a large screen. And by what people have been discussing lately, it seems that because there is no universal standard and so many different companies with they're own proprietary systems, that the whole thing is becoming very complicated and frustrating for alot of folks. The whole system may collapse under its own weight.
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post #1270 of 1394 Old 06-22-2014, 06:26 AM
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I still think even on a small screen, 40", the difference between a BD and streaming is very easily to see. At least I can. But that doesn't mean I'm going to stop using streaming. I've been using Vudu since 2007 to stream content. I just don't use it as much as I did between 2007 and 2010.

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post #1271 of 1394 Old 06-22-2014, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by James Parsons View Post
What bit-rate is your broadband Internet service? Who is your ISP?

I just watched G.I. Joe Retaliation last night via Amazon Prime Video on Roku. I have Verizon FiOS 15/5 broadband. I was truly impressed with the quality of the video and especially the surround sound audio. In fact, the sound was better than Blu-ray because I didn't hear a disc spinning.

I also found the Amazon Prime Video Roku app to be very responsive when fast forwarding and rewinding. It was better than my Blu-ray player and much better than the Hulu Plus app on Roku (which is barely passable).
Comcast 105 download speed, ping of 12. However, the streaming service doesn't give you an ever higher quality file based on your speed. VuDu's HDX file option (for example) is a fixed package on their server, u can either stream it or you can't, and you'll get buffering alerts, telling you to stream the HD or SD file instead. There is not a service that allows you to stream a 25-40GB HD file that normally resides on a blu-ray (depending on film length, etc). And if you can hear your blu-ray spinning in a typical cabinet setup over the normal volumes of viewing, you really need a new player. There simply is no streaming service that offers a movie file at the same size and bit rate as what resides on a Blu-ray disc. Remember, blu-ray Video bitrate can hit 40Mbps. That's not considering the lossless audio that can be passed at the same time. It's just a fact, streaming doesn't even come close. But that doesn't mean plenty of people don't find streaming satisfactory.
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post #1272 of 1394 Old 06-22-2014, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by notabadname View Post
Comcast 105 download speed, ping of 12. However, the streaming service doesn't give you an ever higher quality file based on your speed. VuDu's HDX file option (for example) is a fixed package on their server, u can either stream it or you can't, and you'll get buffering alerts, telling you to stream the HD or SD file instead. There is not a service that allows you to stream a 25-40GB HD file that normally resides on a blu-ray (depending on film length, etc). And if you can hear your blu-ray spinning in a typical cabinet setup over the normal volumes of viewing, you really need a new player. There simply is no streaming service that offers a movie file at the same size and bit rate as what resides on a Blu-ray disc. Remember, blu-ray Video bitrate can hit 40Mbps. That's not considering the lossless audio that can be passed at the same time. It's just a fact, streaming doesn't even come close. But that doesn't mean plenty of people don't find streaming satisfactory.
There is a service that offfers quality identical to a BD. Kaleidoscope. But it is very expensive.
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post #1273 of 1394 Old 06-22-2014, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
There is a service that offfers quality identical to a BD. Kaleidoscope. But it is very expensive.
And that's the rub.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #1274 of 1394 Old 06-22-2014, 11:19 AM
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OT: I recently purchased a used two-disc copy of "Star Trek: Into Darkness". I gave away the DVD disc and watched the BRD last night. I could easily see the pixels on a 55 inch screen. Why? I don't think I have any other BRD that I can see the pixels on my little 55 inch TV.

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post #1275 of 1394 Old 06-22-2014, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by TinnEars View Post
OT: I recently purchased a used two-disc copy of "Star Trek: Into Darkness". I gave away the DVD disc and watched the BRD last night. I could easily see the pixels on a 55 inch screen. Why? I don't think I have any other BRD that I can see the pixels on my little 55 inch TV.
You mean compression artifacts like macroblocking?

What resolution is your TV? Is it 1080p? UHD? ... or 720p?

Is your screen calibrated for optimal sharpness, contrast, brightness, color, gray scale, etc.?

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!

Last edited by Dan Hitchman; 06-22-2014 at 11:35 AM.
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post #1276 of 1394 Old 06-22-2014, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
You mean compression artifacts like macroblocking?

What resolution is your TV? Is it 1080p? UHD? ... or 720p?

Is your screen calibrated for optimal sharpness, contrast, brightness, color, gray scale, etc.?
It's a new 1080p TV and I'm not talking about compression artifacts... though I can see those too. No... this is very specifically pixelation. This BRD is definitely NOT 1080 resolution. I know to decrease sharpening if I see excessive grain etc. In fact, the sharpening is/was set to "0". I don't have this issue with my other BRD. Now that I think about it... I'M SURE this BRD is NOT 1080p resolution.

This is not a bootleg copy because it came with the original artwork, papers and outer sleeve.

Is it possible the publisher is cheating?

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post #1277 of 1394 Old 06-22-2014, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by TinnEars View Post
It's a new 1080p TV and I'm not talking about compression artifacts... though I can see those too. No... this is very specifically pixelation. This BRD is definitely NOT 1080 resolution.
I didn't notice that issue when I rented the film on Blu-ray, but then again I was also totally distracted by all the lens flares and sheer awfulness of the movie itself to really look for picture anomalies.

Anyone else with ST: ID notice these issues?

You may need to calibrate your TV with a Blu-ray like the Speers and Munsel benchmark disc or Disney's WOW! disc, especially if it's new. Sometimes if the brightness and contrast and sharpness levels are set too high, those will exaggerate any compression issues with a particular title.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!

Last edited by Dan Hitchman; 06-22-2014 at 11:46 AM.
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post #1278 of 1394 Old 06-22-2014, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
You mean compression artifacts like macroblocking?

What resolution is your TV? Is it 1080p? UHD? ... or 720p?

Is your screen calibrated for optimal sharpness, contrast, brightness, color, gray scale, etc.?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
I didn't notice that issue when I rented the film on Blu-ray, but then again I was also totally distracted by all the lens flares and sheer awfulness of the movie itself to really look for picture anomalies.

Anyone else with ST: ID notice these issues?

You may need to calibrate your TV, especially if it's new. Sometimes if the brightness and contrast and sharpness are set too high, those will exaggerate any compression issues with a particular title.
Yeah, the lens flares are awful... and I think they may even be faked. Why they'd do that so poorly I have no clue.

It's not the settings. It's pixelation. I'm not a video guy but I've been into Photoshop since v2.0. It's pixelation... not compression artifacts. Really, really, really.
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post #1279 of 1394 Old 06-22-2014, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
There is a service that offfers quality identical to a BD. Kaleidoscope. But it is very expensive.
Kind of true on Kaleidoscope. But it does use a proprietary player, a little different than traditional streaming. You aren't going to watch on a smart-App enabled TV, a PS4, RoKu or an Xbox. And, as you know, a new release is essentially the same price as the blu-ray at Walmart. I'ld rather have the physical media, be able to enjoy identical quality, plus normally get a digital copy for VuDu ( or UV) AND be able to loan the movie to friends, or take over for movie night. And, if the company ever fails, your digital library is in great jeopardy of evaporating.

A digital copy should always be significantly less in cost than the physical equivalent if of the same quality. Essentially no production/stamping costs, distribution, or brick-n-mortar markup for overhead. Pass on Kaleidoscope simply because there is no "value" as compared to the physical media (which I can rip, bit-for-bit and store on my own server).

Last edited by notabadname; 06-22-2014 at 12:02 PM. Reason: Correction
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post #1280 of 1394 Old 06-22-2014, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by TinnEars View Post
Yeah, the lens flares are awful... and I think they may even be faked. Why they'd do that so poorly I have no clue.

It's not the settings. It's pixelation. I'm not a video guy but I've been into Photoshop since v2.0. It's pixelation... not compression artifacts. Really, really, really.
In all seriousness, it sounds like your TV needs a thorough calibration with a specialized Blu-ray disc like Disney's WOW! You never want to set your display by just eye-balling it. It has a pretty well organized set of calibration steps to optimize your HD display. You can either do a basic calibration or, once you're more experienced, a complete top to bottom advanced mode. And it's kind of fun too. Most sets will calibrate the best in Movie or Film mode as it shuts off a lot of extraneous ultra-sharpness, motion "smoothness", or HFR modes that make the picture look worse, not better.

Also, check your Blu-ray player's menu settings for an HDMI picture level adjustment. It's usually either darker or lighter (depending on the model). That plays with "blacker than black" signal levels either being sent to your TV, or getting clipped off. Set it to DARKER before doing any kind of calibration.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!

Last edited by Dan Hitchman; 06-22-2014 at 12:08 PM.
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post #1281 of 1394 Old 06-23-2014, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinnEars View Post
It's a new 1080p TV and I'm not talking about compression artifacts... though I can see those too. No... this is very specifically pixelation. This BRD is definitely NOT 1080 resolution. I know to decrease sharpening if I see excessive grain etc. In fact, the sharpening is/was set to "0". I don't have this issue with my other BRD. Now that I think about it... I'M SURE this BRD is NOT 1080p resolution.
Any legitimate copy of Star Trek Into Darkness on Blu-ray is going to be 1080p. You should not see any compression artifacts. If it were an older movie that originally came out on DVD, then you could expect it to be less than 1080p (Gladiator, anyone?), but not a movie that was originally released in the Blu-ray age.

Quote:
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This is not a bootleg copy because it came with the original artwork, papers and outer sleeve.

Is it possible the publisher is cheating?
Here's the important question: Did you buy it from a mainstream, trustworthy retailer? Or did you get it from some no-name "marketplace" seller?
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post #1282 of 1394 Old 06-23-2014, 11:37 AM
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And if you can hear your blu-ray spinning in a typical cabinet setup over the normal volumes of viewing, you really need a new player.
All movies have quiet scenes, so the test is if you can hear the disc spinning when there's no sound coming from your speakers. I am yet to encounter a DVD or Blu-ray player that is completely silent. I do find that some discs are noisier than others. I assume that's because the noisier discs have less than perfect geometry. I don't have a TV cabinet with glass doors; I have an open-air TV stand with selves.

The simple fact is that Blu-ray players have moving parts (especially the disc itself). Digital media players like the Roku and Apple TV don't have moving parts, thus no noise.

That said, there's lots of stuff in a home environment that's noisier than a Blu-ray player: Refrigerator, HVAC, laptop fan, birds outside, traffic outside, my own breathing...

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post #1283 of 1394 Old 06-23-2014, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
In all seriousness, it sounds like your TV needs a thorough calibration with a specialized Blu-ray disc like Disney's WOW! You never want to set your display by just eye-balling it. It has a pretty well organized set of calibration steps to optimize your HD display. You can either do a basic calibration or, once you're more experienced, a complete top to bottom advanced mode. And it's kind of fun too. Most sets will calibrate the best in Movie or Film mode as it shuts off a lot of extraneous ultra-sharpness, motion "smoothness", or HFR modes that make the picture look worse, not better.

Also, check your Blu-ray player's menu settings for an HDMI picture level adjustment. It's usually either darker or lighter (depending on the model). That plays with "blacker than black" signal levels either being sent to your TV, or getting clipped off. Set it to DARKER before doing any kind of calibration.
I accept that. However, there is really no mistaking pixelation... though I didn't consider that initially because I didn't think it possible. Even if the calibration is completely wrong I still shouldn't be seeing obvious pixelation on a 55 inch TV. None of my other blu-ray discs are pixelated... not even my DVDs.
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post #1284 of 1394 Old 06-23-2014, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Parsons View Post
Any legitimate copy of Star Trek Into Darkness on Blu-ray is going to be 1080p. You should not see any compression artifacts. If it were an older movie that originally came out on DVD, then you could expect it to be less than 1080p (Gladiator, anyone?), but not a movie that was originally released in the Blu-ray age.



Here's the important question: Did you buy it from a mainstream, trustworthy retailer? Or did you get it from some no-name "marketplace" seller?
I bought a used BRD off eBay... but since it came with the original artwork, paperwork and fitted sleeve I figured it should be fine. Are there bootleg copies with all this included?
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post #1285 of 1394 Old 06-23-2014, 12:14 PM
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I accept that. However, there is really no mistaking pixelation... though I didn't consider that initially because I didn't think it possible. Even if the calibration is completely wrong I still shouldn't be seeing obvious pixelation on a 55 inch TV. None of my other blu-ray discs are pixelated... not even my DVDs.
Did you buy your copy from a legitimate dealer like Amazon.com or Best Buy? If not, you might have gotten a bootleg. I did not see what you describe when I watched it Blu-ray.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #1286 of 1394 Old 06-23-2014, 12:14 PM
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I bought a used BRD off eBay... but since it came with the original artwork, paperwork and fitted sleeve I figured it should be fine. Are there bootleg copies with all this included?
You got a bootleg, sorry to say. They can be damned impressive, but the content will be crap. It's $12 on Amazon right now, if you want a good copy. Avoid Ebay.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #1287 of 1394 Old 06-23-2014, 12:17 PM
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Hoodathunkit... with the "supposed" original paper inserts and outer sleeve? I guess I'll try to return it.
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post #1288 of 1394 Old 06-23-2014, 12:21 PM
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Hoodathunkit... with the "supposed" original paper inserts and outer sleeve? I guess I'll try to return it.
I wouldn't bother. It will just cost more to send it back and then you have to hassle with the schmuck who sold you a bum disc in the first place. Do file a complaint with Ebay directly. Just don't get discs off Ebay anymore. Bite the bullet. Lesson learned.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!

Last edited by Dan Hitchman; 06-23-2014 at 12:28 PM.
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post #1289 of 1394 Old 06-23-2014, 12:23 PM
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Well I just got back from a friends house where he had a bunch of movies on Bluray that I didn't even own. I asked him if I could convert titles to my UV account on disc to digital and then saw he had some UV code slips in his collection he wasn't using. He said he doesn't use UV and I could have any I wanted (some were good some had expired but could still be converted for 1.00 each. So I just added 87 titles grand total for all 87 titles with the use of valid UV slips and also paying 1.00 each for Bluray to HDX conversion came to 48.00 and some change.

If I went to the store and paid let's say 20.00 (without tax) on each title it would come to 1,740 (without tax) plus 139.20 (tax) is 1,879.20

So me paying out of pocket 1879.20 for 87 Bluray copies or 48.00 and change for the same title with slightly lesser picture quality. Yeah the decision was very easy for me.
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post #1290 of 1394 Old 06-23-2014, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
I wouldn't bother. It will just cost more to send it back and then you have to hassle with the schmuck you sold you a bum disc in the first place. Do file a complaint with Ebay directly. Just don't get discs off Ebay. Bite the bullet. Lesson learned.
It's worth it to damage the seller's "current" moniker... though they'll certainly eventually open a new account. I PMed the seller expressing my concerns.
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