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Old 05-11-2014, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

I think this is where some of us in here differ greatly from the tv buying market.

price is one thing, but thickness, and what glasses come bundled with it are like basing a decision on if the hdmi inputs are on the left side or the right side...
When the PQ is so close that you can't tell the difference, and one set is cheaper, thinner, and has more comfortable 3D glasses... those things definitely make the decision easier.
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Old 05-11-2014, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by barnabas1969 View Post

When the PQ is so close that you can't tell the difference, and one set is cheaper, thinner, and has more comfortable 3D glasses... those things definitely make the decision easier.

I would agree, but it's been no where close to this imo.

so I would choose PQ over thin, and its frustrating to no end when I actually want an LCD tv for whatever reason, and I'm forced to choose between a cheap panel with no features and terrible processing and the ultimate top of the line with FALD, because everything in between is edgelit LED with clouding so bad I literally consider them unwatchable in my room. I would LOVE to trade an inch of thickness for a decent diffuser/backlight solution on a mid-level LCD. I suppose I was 'fortunate' I was able to find a reasonably good CCFL backlit LCD for my bedroom when I was looking. but my problem was the current models offered were either LED backlight(the first two I tried) or pure garbage(the third), and it wasn't until I found an older model that I found a 'good' panel in front of a CCFL backlight with acceptable uniformity.

and I'd rather spend 50bux and buy aftermarket 3D glasses and have the best pq and the best glasses.

I mean I wouldn't buy a used car based on it having nice wheels and tires, but I suppose if they were the same make, model, mileage, overall condition, and price, then of course the upgraded wheels would be a plus. I just don't understand the logic behind placing something that's a minor expense and easier replaceable so high up on the priority list.

so I guess ultimately our debate is that the cheaper, thinner, and more comfortable glasses are actually available on a TV that offers similar picture quality. if that's the way you see it, lucky you. unfortunately for me, the differences are painfully obvious, and in many cases an absolute deal breaker.

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Old 05-12-2014, 11:01 AM
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it was definitely a fight between my eyes and my head when I was shopping. and I ended up letting my wallet break the tie, haha.

Good Line!cool.gif
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Old 05-13-2014, 02:55 PM
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I'd buy an OLED Samsung right now - IF they only offered one without the dastardly CURVE

It just plain sucks, and it's a much greater disincentive to purchase than the price

I can't understand how they still don't get it...

Instead - I will be buying a nice new 75 inch Sammy based on "plain old" LED backlit LCD
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Old 05-13-2014, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

I'd buy an OLED Samsung right now - IF they only offered one without the dastardly CURVE

It just plain sucks, and it's a much greater disincentive to purchase than the price

I can't understand how they still don't get it...

Instead - I will be buying a nice new 75 inch Sammy based on "plain old" LED backlit LCD


Damn curve

Samsung expects 20% growth in curved Ultra HD TV panels over the next two years, read and weep, http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20140512PD213.html:(

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Old 05-13-2014, 08:51 PM
 
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I'm just going to note that all the bitching over the curve comes from nonowners or would-be owners. Those who purchase it are, at worst, indifferent to it (this applies to me).
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Old 05-13-2014, 10:31 PM
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I'm just going to note that all the bitching over the curve comes from nonowners or would-be owners. Those who purchase it are, at worst, indifferent to it (this applies to me).

um, shouldn't that be the case? why would anybody buy something they don't like?

I have a real hatred for edgelit LED, therefore I don't own any edgelit LED's. makes sense right?

personally, I think the comments of the 'would-be' owners are the most meaningful. i'll bitch about the curve, but I wouldn't buy a flat oled or flat UHD tv at the moment anyway. when guys are going to spend the same amount of money on a lesser performing tv just because it's flat, that's something worth taking note of imo.

my only suggestion would be to not support Samsung in anyway. tell them with your wallet you do not approve of the choices they are making
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Old 05-13-2014, 11:44 PM
 
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Oh, you can be sure Samdung is at the bottom of my list. Unfortunately, you helped to finance the behemoth last year (I have one of their phones, a washer, a dryer, and one of their 32" LCDs, so I can't fault you too much in all honesty). :P I was purely referring to the majority who have purchased the LG OLED (the cheapest model being curved). *Those* are the owners who I think have the most revealing opinion about the effect of the curve, merely for the fact that most of them aren't buying it solely for the curve (if at all) but for the promise of PQ that surpasses all that has come before it (and they're simultaneously finding that the curve is not the detriment the loudest are declaring it to be). I invite you to check out that owner's thread....none of the handful of owners who are participating bought it because they were itching for this curvaceous malarkey (ok, maybe with the exception of one). At the same time, none of us are righteously indignant about it either.

The bane of edgelit LCD, which Samsung has also solely adopted, is more of a tragedy than the slight curve they and others are implementing across multiple models. Convex CRTs never bothered me, and this latest curve in the opposite direction holds about the same level of bother. No doubt, all other things being equal (including price), I'd grab a flat. I would also like the option of flat in all sizes being offered, but these internal studies won't be swept under the rug because of a few flailing their arms at AVS.
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Old 05-14-2014, 09:31 AM
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A new display plant is a long term investment. It takes years for such an investment to break even. UHDTV specifications are currently being defined with a wider color gamut, and higher dynamic range is on the table, (more a matter of how to define HDR, there are many proposals). Many industry insiders feel that 4K is not compelling enough to reach a high market penetration on pixels alone, better color and higher dynamic range are essential to get consumers to buy in. OLED is able to deliver more colors than BT.709 and a higher dynamic range than the current definition maxing out at 100 nits, but how much more? Is it enough? The current BT.709/100 nit definitions go back over 50 years, based on color primaries set in the 20's (yes the 1920's!) and the brightness capabilities of CRT technology. LCD backlit displays and current OLED technology was designed around those standards. Looking to the future (the next 50 years), we are looking at color pallet definitions like BT.2020 and dynamic range definitions as high as 10,000 nits. Currently no display in the world can deliver to that full level of performance (in both brightness and color at the same time), but content created to such definitions would permit all displays to perform at their full capability without having to synthetically extend the image. Does OLED have enough gas left in the technology to compete for 5 to 10 more years in light of this new standard? What would it be competing against? Quantum dot displays? Some other new direct emission technology? Will laser displays see a revival? A new hybrid technology? A lot was being said about QD technology 7 years ago, now there's hardly anything. Apple is said to have a QD display on the iPhone6, and is showing a general interest in the technology. Apple isn't known for bleeding edge technology. Is Samsung pulling the plug on a big screen OLED plant signaling a new direction, or was it just a business decision and that plant will show up somewhere else in the world? Only time will tell.

P.S. Looks like I might be a bit behind the times here. Sony already has QD televisions:
http://www.display-central.com/free-news/display-daily/time-to-buy-a-quantum-dot-tv/
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Old 05-14-2014, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by plm999 View Post

P.S. Looks like I might be a bit behind the times here. Sony already has QD televisions:
http://www.display-central.com/free-news/display-daily/time-to-buy-a-quantum-dot-tv/
Had QD televisions. They are not using quantum dots in their 2014 models.
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Old 05-14-2014, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plm999 View Post

P.S. Looks like I might be a bit behind the times here. Sony already has QD televisions:
http://www.display-central.com/free-news/display-daily/time-to-buy-a-quantum-dot-tv/
Had QD televisions. They are not using quantum dots in their 2014 models.

 

It would also appear Sony is not long on OLED either... http://www.cnet.com/news/sony-halts-oled-tv-development-to-focus-on-4k/


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Old 05-14-2014, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Oh, you can be sure Samdung is at the bottom of my list. Unfortunately, you helped to finance the behemoth last year (I have one of their phones, a washer, a dryer, and one of their 32" LCDs, so I can't fault you too much in all honesty). :P I was purely referring to the majority who have purchased the LG OLED (the cheapest model being curved). *Those* are the owners who I think have the most revealing opinion about the effect of the curve, merely for the fact that most of them aren't buying it solely for the curve (if at all) but for the promise of PQ that surpasses all that has come before it (and they're simultaneously finding that the curve is not the detriment the loudest are declaring it to be). I invite you to check out that owner's thread....none of the handful of owners who are participating bought it because they were itching for this curvaceous malarkey (ok, maybe with the exception of one). At the same time, none of us are righteously indignant about it either.

The bane of edgelit LCD, which Samsung has also solely adopted, is more of a tragedy than the slight curve they and others are implementing across multiple models. Convex CRTs never bothered me, and this latest curve in the opposite direction holds about the same level of bother. No doubt, all other things being equal (including price), I'd grab a flat. I would also like the option of flat in all sizes being offered, but these internal studies won't be swept under the rug because of a few flailing their arms at AVS.

I supported a company that APPEARED to be committed to plasma. buying an f8500 had a better shot at maintaining plasma production than buying a vt60. not that I was thinking about that at the time of course tongue.gif

I definitely have a bit of a love/hate for Samsung though. they've started several trends that irk me, but the competition has followed them so their hasn't been much salvation elsewhere either. but I do think this is a chance to make a statement when it counts. there's no sense in trying to fight edgelit LED's because everybody uses them, but we can fight curved screens.

I will totally accept that current oled owners are choosing PQ over flat screens. I just hope that when pq doesn't have to be the deciding factor, flat screen will be chosen over pq.

two things worry me at the moment. curved UHD LED's will be purchased, and manufacturers will assume it's because customers want curved screens. and curved OLED's won't sell well and manufacturers will assume its because customers don't want OLED.

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Old 05-14-2014, 01:07 PM
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two things worry me at the moment. curved UHD LED's will be purchased, and manufacturers will assume it's because customers want curved screens. and curved OLED's won't sell well and manufacturers will assume its because customers don't want OLED.

I agree with your comments in general. About your concern that I quoted, I bet you manufacturers already know that the general populous chooses to like whatever they and the journalists tell us is in fashion from one tradeshow to the next. Of course if everyone voted with their wallet we'd be able to send that one brief message, but I'm sure by now too many people think its 'cool' and the sales force push will help reinforce that image.

Do you remember the gold iphone? or the pink Razor? biggrin.gif
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Old 05-14-2014, 01:36 PM
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I also remember a fairy tale called 'the emperor's new clothes'...

when did electronics become a fashion?

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Old 05-14-2014, 06:46 PM
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two things worry me at the moment. curved UHD LED's will be purchased, and manufacturers will assume it's because customers want curved screens. and curved OLED's won't sell well and manufacturers will assume its because customers don't want OLED.

My concern as well.

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Old 05-20-2014, 08:54 AM
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Thanks, Scott! What you wrote was interesting not only because of OLED TV but also because of the business-strategy implications. For strategyophiles, see "How Can Opposite Strategies Both be Right?" http://www.competing.com/2014/05/how-can-opposite-strategies-both-be-right-or-the-non-war-between-lg-and-samsung/ (non-commercial). I'm hoping that LG and Samsung's moves bring well-priced OLED to us quickly. Dunno about those curved screens, though.

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Old 07-29-2014, 10:26 PM
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I for one am leaning more towards Oled. The LG 2013 model (55EA9800) is only $3,299 no tax and free ship, is relatively close to a high end 4K 55"er. I am reluctant to dive into 4K despite people saying upconverted material still looks better than 1080 on a 1080 display. I really didnt want to get any 2013 tv because both types are just too new - waiting out for the 2014s to come down in price would get some bugs out and future proof it a little more. I am happy with my 2008 46" samsung 60Hz LCD, but i want a little bigger screen, at least 55", no more than 65". i think 10" more will be enough as i sit relatively close, i think 65" might even be too much as there comes a point in-which you almost have to move your head not your eyes to see, or have to at least move your eyes from one side of the screen to the other and not just see it all at once. ANYWAY..... i have never liked the 120Hz (and up) soap opera effect trickery thing, which i think i will be forced into using with a bigger set (esp. a 65" 4K set) whereas an Oled doesnt need that with the 0.01 MICROsecond response time. And unless you get expensive "full array" LED, you have to get the edge-lit style with "local" dimming" in blocks which i dont get because where you might need the screen to be light and dark right next to each other might be inside one of those "blocks"?!?!?? Wouldn't you see blocks of varying blackness all over the screen? Where the Oled solves this with turning off the individual pixles. --- Companies giving up on Oled now (and possibly forever) makes my heart sink. To be so close to mass production and prices in the $3,000 range, and them solving almost every issue of regular LCDs, well it makes me want to buy the last LG Oled just to help fight the good fight. How can these things take off when people think they cost $10,000, when they are really going for $3-4k...... AND NO ONE HAS ONE ON DISPLAY?!?! Oled's are not getting a fair shake or "chance" just from the lack of promotion alone. All the reviews seem to be along the lines of "words cant express how much better and absolutely stunning it looks." You dont have to upgrade your disks, player, receiver or even your cables, less power consumption, almost non-existent response time, blackest possible black, truest colors........ this tech is as advanced as tv's ever need to be. (apart from fixing the very few shortcomings like the blue pixel short life, burn-in, and getting wet..... but still!) Blu-ray won the media war, and so should Oled. TOO EARLY TO GIVE UP!!! Iv'e never been a big fan of LG, but God bless 'em for not giving up.
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Old 07-30-2014, 11:22 AM
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I agree, TheCure. I want OLED to take off.

I also agree with fierce_gt's astute comment about the ways manufacturers might interpret sales patterns.

I think that Samsung stepping aside (temporarily?) and leaving more of the market to LG will RAISE the odds that OLED will succeed. (See the link to my article on Competing.com, two comments up.) That's because the odds go up that LG will succeed because Samsung won't divide a small (for now) market with them.
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Old 07-30-2014, 05:17 PM
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Well MJC5point1, i hope your right. Interesting artical, i just hope LG doesnt down the road say something like "we better just cut our losses and abandon this venture until someone else succeeds first". Maybe we should all write LG and ask them to both not give up and to just promote the damn thing. I am shocked to see my local bestbuy actually has one of these, but i doubt its on display. I dont like the curve of the 2013 nor its aged tech., and i dont like the picture frame around 2014 model - speakers or not, it just doesnt look right, and that 'frame' will not match the rest of my paintings frames. I think they are trying a little too hard to stand out. The frame is not where they need to focus there innovations.
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Old 08-06-2014, 07:37 AM
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While everything is indeed about yields, I still have more faith in the RGB droplet style of OLED that Samsung is attempting over the LG's stacked idea with sheets of OLED material. Not because I believe that Samsung could actually create the device cheaply, but because I like how clean it is in concept of using tuned emitters over throwing light away with filters.

BTW, Aside from the 8800, is there any hint at all of a flat OLED showing up?

Cogito ergo sum makes a fundamental mistake because it ignores the implied existence of the narrator. Descartes might as well have said "A rose is red, therefore I am".
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