Sony Backs Off on OLED - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 90 Old 05-15-2014, 04:44 PM
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I am so glad I picked up two 65VT60 sets and if the samsung 64 inch plasma is still around in December I may pick one up for the bedroom to,have as a backup to my backup.
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post #62 of 90 Old 05-15-2014, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevon27 View Post

The TV market is OVER SATURATED. For "Normal People" , this does not include AVS Forum members, LCD is just fine. Especially since LCD are now thinner, larger and most importantly dirt cheap.
Most people have already upgraded from SD, Rear Projection, the first few generations of plasma and older LCDs.
For most people, the high end plasma's and OLEDs are not needed.
My Samsung LNS650a was rated one of the best ccfl lcd TV's back in 2008. Even with newer, thinner and "better" TVs on the market, I see NO need to upgrade.
The upgrade itis for TV's is going away. Even the cheap crap brands are actually pretty decent.
People are hanging on to their Televisions longer and will only upgrade when they stop working.
OLED, 3D and 4K TV's are going to have a very, very tough battle.


kevon I just bought a week ago my Sony 55W900A (My 2nd one) and that has pretty much ended my upgrade itis now and for the forseeable future. I have zero interest in 4K and it looks like OLED may be dead before it even starts so I am set. Time to turn my attention to new speakers and so fourth.
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post #63 of 90 Old 05-15-2014, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post


From a 2 all the way over to the 8? That's one very fat finger. Like typing with your forehead. smile.gif
 

Could be a 10 key pad compatibility issue, some 10 key pads are reversed and putt the 2 where the 8 is.  I hate it when that happens.

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post #64 of 90 Old 05-15-2014, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jmaccool View Post

I get what you are saying but to me having a 4K or 8k display with all of those pixels seems like waste if there is no native content.

I agree, it's not really a compelling reason to buy a new TV. but I do see how it could benefit a projector. I also wonder if the extra resolution would have any positive side effects, like having perfect 1080p motion resolution, or if you're into 3D 1080p passive 3D. for me, the real benefits of UHD have nothing to do with extra pixels anyway, but that still relies on content. while you can upscale the resolution, I'm not aware of any way to 'upscale' the color bit depth, or any of the other benefits of UHD.

and as a short term scenario, as long as UHD content is coming eventually, I wouldn't avoid buying UHD on my next tv purchase. I wouldn't mind having a UHD tv for a year or two before I had UHD content. I'm just not going to go out and buy one unless I need a new tv anyway.

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post #65 of 90 Old 05-15-2014, 09:52 PM
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What the heck is 780P?

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post #66 of 90 Old 05-16-2014, 06:20 AM
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Looking forward to good-4k display ownership, too, providing there are plenty of 4k sources. Without good sources, though, a comment in Ultra HDTV magazine by 4k producer Len Davies about upscaling 1080 material seems significant:
Quote:
Also if a movie made in 1920 x 1080 is suddenly stretched to fit 3840 x 2160 then we have what I like to call the ‘cheesecloth’ effect. If you take a piece of cheesecloth and start stretching it then holes will start to appear. Take into account that HD has over 2 million pixels in its span, and Ultra HD has in excess of 8 million. One HD pixel now has to cover the space of 4 Ultra HD pixels, and even though the process can be very effective, weaknesses do show.
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post #67 of 90 Old 05-16-2014, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kluken View Post

I am so glad I picked up two 65VT60 sets and if the samsung 64 inch plasma is still around in December I may pick one up for the bedroom to,have as a backup to my backup.

 

After listening to Vinnie and a few others about the 60's, I'm beginning to wonder if the Plasmas to get were the prior VT50.


Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Unless, of course, it's to keep someone from creating a phone video in portrait mode, in which case it's a pretty good first step. Portrait mooks: KNOCK IT OFF.
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post #68 of 90 Old 05-16-2014, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mason View Post

Looking forward the good 4k display ownership, too, providing there are plenty of 4k sources. Without good sources, though, a comment in Ultra HDTV magazine by 4k producer Len Davies about upscaling 1080 material seems significant:
Quote:
Also if a movie made in 1920 x 1080 is suddenly stretched to fit 3840 x 2160 then we have what I like to call the ‘cheesecloth’ effect. If you take a piece of cheesecloth and start stretching it then holes will start to appear. Take into account that HD has over 2 million pixels in its span, and Ultra HD has in excess of 8 million. One HD pixel now has to cover the space of 4 Ultra HD pixels, and even though the process can be very effective, weaknesses do show.

 

And I don't buy it for a second---someone please explain this because he doesn't.  What weaknesses could he be talking about?  I don't think the metaphor he's using applies.  Even using the simplest pixel replication of 1x1 -> 2x2 there wouldn't be a single hole nor decrease in PPI.  If anything the grid between the pixels will shrink.

 

If instead he's talking about (or thinking about) the point of capture, then of course the sensors will gather more information.  So either way, what could he possibly mean?


Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Unless, of course, it's to keep someone from creating a phone video in portrait mode, in which case it's a pretty good first step. Portrait mooks: KNOCK IT OFF.
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post #69 of 90 Old 05-16-2014, 06:45 AM
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This confirms my decision, I was waiting till 2016/2017 to go OLED, heck now I'll just go full-array local dimming LED backlighting and stick with that for next 10 years.
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post #70 of 90 Old 05-16-2014, 08:20 AM
 
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^Why does your decision hinge on what Sony does? They are a glorified rebadger these days anyhow. None of the Japanese manufacturers have the clout they once did. Let's wait and see how LG fares with their sizable investment and lofty goals before planning 10 years into the future, ffs.
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post #71 of 90 Old 05-16-2014, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

And I don't buy it for a second---someone please explain this because he doesn't.  What weaknesses could he be talking about?  I don't think the metaphor he's using applies.  Even using the simplest pixel replication of 1x1 -> 2x2 there wouldn't be a single hole nor decrease in PPI.  If anything the grid between the pixels will shrink.

If instead he's talking about (or thinking about) the point of capture, then of course the sensors will gather more information.  So either way, what could he possibly mean?
It's not so much there is missing information as information has to be created to fill the same space on a higher resolution TV. That's the scaler doing that, which without doing so, the image would be a postage stamp in the middle of the higher resolution screen.

That information doesn't really exist. It's interpolation, usually through duplication of pixels.

What happens in that case isn't so much "holes" in the image as things start to look lumpy and soft and hard lines start looking blocky instead of smooth since upscaling can only do so much. The further away the resolution of the source is from the final display resolution, the worse it's going to look when upscaled compared to being shown on a display closer to the source.

Obviously, if the source is at the highest quality that the lower resolution format allows, it goes a long way toward looking better upscaled.
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post #72 of 90 Old 05-16-2014, 09:12 AM
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It's a shame. Few months ago I was in Magnolia/Best Buy and next to the big 4K displays there was a "small" 55" OLED HDTV. Without noticing at first it was an OLED display even though I was surrounded by all those 4K HDTV the OLED display grab my attention: never have I seen a display with such absolut perfect blacks. Watching dark/night scenes was revealing, a whole new experience. But what are we, the AV fans to do? Learn to live that this idea is gone and now wait for the 4K displays become massive. Maybe my eyes are untrained but I didn't see anything special while watching the 4K displays that let me think: you've got to have this HDTV. No big difference from a regular HD LED TV. On the other hand the OLED display...
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post #73 of 90 Old 05-16-2014, 09:52 AM
 
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Enough with the sky is falling, arms flailing about! Sony is not the end of the line for OLED...they only ever produced massively expensive OLED monitors regarding which they have made no discontinuation announcement. Their manufacturing capacity has faltered since the heady days of the XBR CRTs, and they have been rebadging other TVs for at least 15 years.
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post #74 of 90 Old 05-16-2014, 10:05 AM
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^^^Yeah, holy crap has this gone off the rails.

 

BTW, I would like it if Scott changed the title from

 

"Sony Backs Off on OLED"

 

to

 

"Did Sony back off from OLED development?"

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post #75 of 90 Old 05-16-2014, 10:09 AM
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Can someone do an article on curved screens? This is another market that needs to just go away.
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post #76 of 90 Old 05-16-2014, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Enough with the sky is falling, arms flailing about! Sony is not the end of the line for OLED...they only ever produced massively expensive OLED monitors regarding which they have made no discontinuation announcement. Their manufacturing capacity has faltered since the heady days of the XBR CRTs, and they have been rebadging other TVs for at least 15 years.

the way I see it, this isn't the end of oled, it's a sign that LG's going to be the next powerhouse in high end TV's.
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post #77 of 90 Old 05-16-2014, 03:28 PM
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Until Sony releases an official press release saying they are backing off on OLED I wont believe it and as of right now they have said nothing. And so what if they have backed off on OLED? Its not the end of the world and it puts LG in the position to capitalize on the OLED market and be the first manufacturer to run with it and see if they can make a few bucks with it. Granted I don't trust LG's products but hey if they can make something of it then by all means test the market with OLED and see how it goes. As for Sony? They have put all their eggs in one basket with 4K and are hoping it saves their failing tv manufacturing division and by the looks of it it aint helping very much by what was reported in their last quarter earnings. But who knows maybe things can turn around for them in the end? Only time will tell.
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post #78 of 90 Old 05-16-2014, 03:57 PM
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the way I see it, this isn't the end of oled, it's a sign that LG's going to be the next powerhouse in high end TV's.


This could very well happen, very interesting (chin scratching emoticon)

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post #79 of 90 Old 05-16-2014, 06:52 PM
 
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Granted I don't trust LG's products
Failure rate differences between all the majors are statistically insignificant.
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post #80 of 90 Old 05-16-2014, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1971 View Post

Granted I don't trust LG's products
Failure rate differences between all the majors are statistically insignificant.


Maybe so vinnie but I still dont trust LG.
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Irrationality is a choice. They were very happy to give me a panel replacement when I reported dead pixels on the OLED, so I can't fault them in the customer service dept. nor on any of the other products that I've purchased from them over the years (not that many, a 32" TV for a family member, a Blu-ray player, and a Blu-ray/HD DVD combo player). All of the major corporations have made untrustworthy moves in their tenure at the top, Sony not being immune in the slightest.
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post #82 of 90 Old 05-16-2014, 07:58 PM
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Maybe so vinnie but I still dont trust LG.


That's why I purchase big ticket items (like a TV) from a reputable local dealer.  If they're a good enough dealer you're not alone, you've got backup.  Of course it's awesome if there are no problems but I like a backup plan.

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post #83 of 90 Old 05-18-2014, 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

After listening to Vinnie and a few others about the 60's, I'm beginning to wonder if the Plasmas to get were the prior VT50.

I loved my VT50, but my VT60 looks better. Of course in hind sight I wish I had kept my VT50 as a backup to my 2 VT60s, but I got decent money for it so decided to sell it. Both my Chad B. calibrated VT60s look awesome. Although I must say one is far more prone to temporary IR than the other. I wonder if it has to do witht he breakin procedure. The one that is prone to IR was run for almost all 400 of its first hours with just slides and very little real content, the one less prone to IR had a mix of slide and content the first 400 hours.
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post #84 of 90 Old 05-18-2014, 06:22 AM
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I have a Panasonic GT 50., Its awesome. That being said, I'm bummed about Panasonic announcing its dropping plasma research.
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post #85 of 90 Old 05-18-2014, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Failure rate differences between all the majors are statistically insignificant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1971 View Post

Maybe so vinnie but I still dont trust LG.

I don't either.

We got a large number of LGs at work for information displays. These things work all day and all night. Within 8 months, half were dead.

Facilities decided "to Hell with it" and bought a bunch of Sanyos, figuring they might as well go cheap if they weren't going to last. Two years later, we've only lost one screen.

At home, my first HD set, a Vizio, is still going strong close to 10 years later.
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post #86 of 90 Old 05-18-2014, 10:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kluken View Post

I loved my VT50, but my VT60 looks better. Of course in hind sight I wish I had kept my VT50 as a backup to my 2 VT60s, but I got decent money for it so decided to sell it. Both my Chad B. calibrated VT60s look awesome. Although I must say one is far more prone to temporary IR than the other. I wonder if it has to do witht he breakin procedure. The one that is prone to IR was run for almost all 400 of its first hours with just slides and very little real content, the one less prone to IR had a mix of slide and content the first 400 hours.
Interesting anecdote...I also broke in my ZT like you did your IR-prone VT. tongue.gif
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post #87 of 90 Old 05-18-2014, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kluken View Post

I loved my VT50, but my VT60 looks better. Of course in hind sight I wish I had kept my VT50 as a backup to my 2 VT60s, but I got decent money for it so decided to sell it. Both my Chad B. calibrated VT60s look awesome. Although I must say one is far more prone to temporary IR than the other. I wonder if it has to do witht he breakin procedure. The one that is prone to IR was run for almost all 400 of its first hours with just slides and very little real content, the one less prone to IR had a mix of slide and content the first 400 hours.
Interesting anecdote...I also broke in my ZT like you did your IR-prone VT. tongue.gif

 

I don't think anyone is going to understand plasma technology until another 50 years goes by and historians dig a few up out of the rubble....

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post #88 of 90 Old 05-18-2014, 11:17 AM
 
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That enigmatic you feel it is, eh? (Canadian Yoga)
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post #89 of 90 Old 05-18-2014, 12:44 PM
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That enigmatic you feel it is, eh? (Canadian Yoga)

 

It is, that, Aye.  (Pirate Yoda)

 

PS.  put in yoga you did.  Notice you did?


Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Unless, of course, it's to keep someone from creating a phone video in portrait mode, in which case it's a pretty good first step. Portrait mooks: KNOCK IT OFF.
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post #90 of 90 Old 05-19-2014, 12:14 PM
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Yeah, it breaks my heart if it is true that Sony is getting out of the OLED business (to go along with the Samsung news). I have been holding onto my behemoth 56" Panasonic HDTV-Ready CRT RPTV (720p/1080i) for 14 years as my main display (and a 1st gen JVC 1080p HDTV LCD for my bedroom). I never bought into the Plasma is better camp because the Screen-Door effect of Plasma bothered me too much over the lack of colors on an LCD, but that is what I had my CRT HD-RPTV for. The 4k OLED's that I saw at CES the last 2 years made me say finally I get to upgrade (well, I felt that way with SED, but more so with OLED). Sad, really sad. frown.gif
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