Dolby Atmos is Coming to Blu-ray - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 408 Old 06-23-2014, 08:08 PM
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I just creamed myself! What's the max audio channels supported through the specification? Is it 22.1 surround, because that's what 8k is supposed to support in 2020! If HDMI 1.3 supports it how in the heck does it support more then 8 channels of lossless audio. I thought that's only supported with the new HDMI 2.0 spec?
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post #92 of 408 Old 06-23-2014, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
hmm, I would have thought the drop ceiling would make installation so much easier. it was a big pain running wires to install the in ceilings I have in my basement, with a stucco finished drywall ceiling. I put a couple in the bathroom as well, with a drop ceiling and it was a breeze.


but regardless, there should be options for speakers that sit on top of your front speakers and reflect the sound off the roof. so if you wanted it, room size shouldn't be a restriction.
Perhaps. I just meant the drop ceiling panels are rather flimsy for holding speakers (and I have the carpentry skills of a brain-addled amoeba, and I'd rather not pay to have such things installed). However, if the "speakers on the front speakers" idea proves doable, I might consider it someday.
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post #93 of 408 Old 06-23-2014, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
... but this isn't adding trivial detail to the same ol surround sound, it's adding the 3rd dimension. I imagine even just ONE overhead speaker would be more noticeable than going from 5.1 to 11.1.
Unless the 11.1 happened to include height speakers. My last two AVRs have had Dolby plIIz, to drive height speakers (which I have).

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post #94 of 408 Old 06-23-2014, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
it's well know that BD runs in problem thanks to live streaming.

a lot of people don't like the disc anymore and use streaming services. this could be a real problem for Atmos. as it looks like it needs bitstreaming and most likely needs a really high bandwidth.
The DD Atmos can use up to 128 channels for the real time mixing to 64 different speaker...


source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Atmos

and you can't simply judge the effect of Atoms with one Cinema. DD Atoms is a Real time "mix" system that "mix" the input source (not base on a Channel system) to your current setup. and as you can read in the Wiki in a setup with up to 64 Speaker (no LFE speaker included).
and if i get this right the first implementations of this are limited to 11 channel.
and my guess it that they use up to 8 input Channels with the First BD (HDMI 1.4 has a limit for the audio stream. same goes for bitstreaming).

but before someone thinks "only" 8 channel what's need about that. these channel can be from compliantly different direction so they are worth a lot! and i'm guessing but they don't use 128 channel for sure.
A bit of this stuff are in some divisions I don't understand or have just yet to venture there in this hobby But are the ones who prefer streaming the ones on that "red box to close 500 kiosks thread?" Like Vudu or Netflix? I would watch them and I even have some blasphemy SD downloaded TV episodes. But I will take the Blu Ray performance any day over a streaming performance. The DTS Master HD and Dolby True HD tracks on Blu Ray are so much better than a PL Cinema. And the picture...Thats a whole other side. Just my honest young unfiltered and novice view in this hobby. My apologies if I am missing something here

Anyway I have a Denon 4520 and just added wides, heights, and a single rear back surround to my already in place 5 channel two Seaton Submersive setup. I could do two back surrounds but they would have to be like 1.5 ft apart. One speaker is cheaper
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post #95 of 408 Old 06-23-2014, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenoh89 View Post
I just creamed myself! What's the max audio channels supported through the specification? Is it 22.1 surround, because that's what 8k is supposed to support in 2020! If HDMI 1.3 supports it how in the heck does it support more then 8 channels of lossless audio. I thought that's only supported with the new HDMI 2.0 spec?
that's why they need to bitstream it with non HDMI 2.0 connections. when bitstreaming is used the HDMI connection doesn't know whats in the non decoded bitstream and it doesn't care. so it doesn't matter for HDMI if the stream has 18 channel or something like that as long as the the bitstreamed file doesn't use more space the 8 channel 192khz/24bit LPCM would use. so they can add a lot of 48khz/24 bit streams in the DD TrueHD/DD stream or something like that.
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post #96 of 408 Old 06-24-2014, 02:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRaven72 View Post
I wonder if Steaming networks like Vudu instead of the HDX format will have an Atmos selection?
I doubt it, at least not for quite a while. I like Vudu HDX a lot, in fact its the only streaming service I find acceptable... especially on my projector. Right now the highest they offer is of course the lossy DD "Plus". It's not horrible, but it still falls well short of True HD and DTS MA. I guess my my logic here is that if they don't support those HD lossless codecs, why would they turn around and support a sure-to-be (right now) super niche Atmos? Theoretically I doubt they'd want to have to store so many versions of the audio as right now it's basically stereo or DD Plus. All that said, I hope I'm wrong!

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+1


This is all very intriguing. The only Atmos presentation I've seen thus far in the theaters was the 'new' Superman. It's the best sound I've ever heard in a theater, which is saying something because usually it's abysmal and this Atmos presentation was over the top and very satisfying. It's been the only thing I've seen/heard where I left the theater and thought, my theater can't do that. I just saw Edge of Tomorrow a week or so ago and the audio in my local theater was so weak I think a mid level soundbar at home would have rivaled it. Disappointing, to say the least.

As long as it's semi affordable and I can jump through the hoops of getting additional speakers wired which is no easy feat in the angled vaulted ceilings in my room that house a few feet of height worth of jungle gym to fight through while not falling through the ceiling. The only concrete AVR pricing I've seen is Onkyo's which doesn't look that bad but the EQ looks weak, Denon's seems to be reasonable based on the speculation of their Atmos line but hasn't been confirmed, and hopefully Pioneer undercuts them with their just announced Elite Atmos line. All in all, it doesn't seem THAT bad for the potential upside to be gained with Atmos. I'm in when I know the content exists in decent quantity, versus whats currently available for native 9.x+ tracks. Even 7.x isn't guaranteed with all of today's new releases, so hopefully Atmos gets the backing it deserves with the content makers.

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post #97 of 408 Old 06-24-2014, 06:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by quad4.0 View Post
Well now, there goes the streaming movies all shot to hell. My issue was lossless 5.1/7.1 but now, forget it! I feel sorry for those who cashed in the BD collection. Or, buy them all again! 1st
VHS, then DVD then BD now BD with Atmos. Not meant to be rude! But how many times will you buy the house?
They're not going to be re-release tons of 1080p blu-rays with atmos. They are releasing NEW blu-rays with Atmos. By the time even a small % of people have Atmos, 4k will be popular and I'm sure 4k blu-rays will be coming out with Atmos. So sure, you can buy your whole new collection again, but you will be upgrading to 4K and Atmos at the same time.
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post #98 of 408 Old 06-24-2014, 07:22 AM
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We are planning to build a new house with a dedicated theater in Spring/Summer 2015. I will at least need to wire for ceiling speakers. I'm going to wait as long as possible before making purchases to see how many of the new technologies shake out. However, I'm quickly learning that attempts to future proof the build will be a futile exercise.

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post #99 of 408 Old 06-24-2014, 07:29 AM
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While I'm always happy about new technology I'm not to happy about having to upgrade. First off, I have dipoles (which I love) and apparently they aren't optimal for Atmos. So I'd have to replace those to start, then add additional speakers, run more cable and also upgrade my 3yr old AVR. I'm also wondering if the cost of doing all of this will actually result in a vast improvement in sound quality. I guess the first thing I need to do is go see a movie in an atmos equipped theater. I don't go to theaters much (I have my own hometheater), so I need to see what all the hype is about. I went to see avatar to see what all the 3D hype was about, so I guess I need to do the same with atmos.
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post #100 of 408 Old 06-24-2014, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post
They're not going to be re-release tons of 1080p blu-rays with atmos. They are releasing NEW blu-rays with Atmos. By the time even a small % of people have Atmos, 4k will be popular and I'm sure 4k blu-rays will be coming out with Atmos. So sure, you can buy your whole new collection again, but you will be upgrading to 4K and Atmos at the same time.
+1

I don't see them remixing sound tracks on older films just to re-release them on Blu-Ray with an Atmos soundtrack. They wouldn't be able to charge enough of a premium to recoup the costs since very few people will actually have Atmos setups (or even know what one is) in the next couple of years. Atmos sound tracks on Blu-Ray will initially be limited to new releases that had Atmos soundtracks when they were in the theater and perhaps a few older, but highly popular films that are completely remastered for both picture and sound.

This might change if/when a 4K Blu-Ray format is released. Naturally, they will likely remaster the soundtracks as well as the picture for BD4K. When that happens, it is possible, but not guaranteed, that they could include a 1080p Blu-Ray version with the Atmos soundtrack as part of a combo pack with the 4K disc, much like they include DVD's w/ current Blu-Ray combo packs.

I'm guessing that digital content will do the same. Initially, it will only be new releases that feature the Dolby Atmos soundtrack. Then, as more and more older movies are remastered in 4K, the soundtracks for those could be remastered in Dolby Atmos for the 4K version and possibly trickle down to the HD/HDX version as well.
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post #101 of 408 Old 06-24-2014, 07:54 AM
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I have never installed Audyssey's DSX Heights because they have to be higher than the main speakers. My speakers are in-ceiling. Therefor, Heights will not make a bit of difference in my room.

Will Atmos' Heights be the same?





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post #102 of 408 Old 06-24-2014, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pappaduke View Post
While I'm always happy about new technology I'm not to happy about having to upgrade. First off, I have dipoles (which I love) and apparently they aren't optimal for Atmos. So I'd have to replace those to start, then add additional speakers, run more cable and also upgrade my 3yr old AVR. I'm also wondering if the cost of doing all of this will actually result in a vast improvement in sound quality. I guess the first thing I need to do is go see a movie in an atmos equipped theater. I don't go to theaters much (I have my own hometheater), so I need to see what all the hype is about. I went to see avatar to see what all the 3D hype was about, so I guess I need to do the same with atmos.
If you can, I would try to see a demonstration in a home theater setting. IMO the overall experience was close enough between RealD 3D in the theater and passive 3D at home that you could probably determine whether or not you wanted 3D at home from experiencing it in a theater. I don't know if the same would hold true with Dolby Atmos in the theater and at home. With this early home version, there is quite a discrepancy in the number and location of speakers implemented, which could make the home experience less satisfying. On the flip side, it seems that many theaters aren't necessarily properly implementing Dolby Atmos or play the volume at the wrong levels, in which case the home experience might actually be better.
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post #103 of 408 Old 06-24-2014, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Done Deal DR View Post
I just saw Edge of Tomorrow a week or so ago and the audio in my local theater was so weak I think a mid level soundbar at home would have rivaled it. Disappointing, to say the least.
Too bad, since that movie had one of the most aggressive Atmos mixes I've ever heard, really taking advantage of the overhead speakers and smoother panning.

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post #104 of 408 Old 06-24-2014, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Chise View Post
To me it's all hype unless you have a mansion, the average home don't need it.
That's my thought also, most people's home theater rooms are not that large. A array of many speakers is not going to reproduce the acoustical sonic's of a huge room, only modestly approximate it at best.

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post #105 of 408 Old 06-24-2014, 08:31 AM
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I have a rather small HT room with a traditional 7.1 layout.

Making Atmos work for me is absolutely not an issue.

Mansion required? No.

If you can fit 5.1 you can have the Atmos experience at home.

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Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post
That's my thought also, most people's home theater rooms are not that large. A array of many speakers is not going to reproduce the acoustical sonic's of a huge room, only modestly approximate it at best.

Saying you need a mansion is a bit of an exaggeration. Yes of course you will not put Dolby Atmos in your living room, but a modest size home theater area will be great with it. You don't need a mansion to have a dedicated room as a home theater.
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post #107 of 408 Old 06-24-2014, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
How's that? You don't know how Atmos will sound with streaming content, and my guess is it'll be UHD/4K streaming that has it.

It will sound inferior to Blu-ray.
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post #108 of 408 Old 06-24-2014, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
I have a rather small HT room with a traditional 7.1 layout.

Making Atmos work for me is absolutely not an issue.

Mansion required? No.

If you can fit 5.1 you can have the Atmos experience at home.
That last comment almost makes you sound like a Atmos salesperson.

Really until we see how well the film industry audio engineering works with BD media rather then how it is implemented in a commercial theater I reserve judgement.

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post #109 of 408 Old 06-24-2014, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post
Saying you need a mansion is a bit of an exaggeration. Yes of course you will not put Dolby Atmos in your living room, but a modest size home theater area will be great with it. You don't need a mansion to have a dedicated room as a home theater.
I didn't use the word "mansion" like who I was quoting, I only implied that a larger room would benefit more from Atmos. Similar to using existing 3D surround techniques with height speakers.

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post #110 of 408 Old 06-24-2014, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post
That last comment almost makes you sound like a Atmos salesperson.

Really until we see how well the film industry audio engineering works with BD media rather then how it is implemented in a commercial theater I reserve judgement.
Hey, that's cool. You gotta hear it for yourself to know. If this is something that interests your then I'm sure you will like it when done properly. Guess we ALL have to wait it out a bit.


And yeah. Not a salesman but there were several diagrams posted and there was a point made for those people who can not install actual height speakers. So yes, if you have 5/7.1 now you can have Atmos with an appreciable height effect, imo.

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post #111 of 408 Old 06-24-2014, 08:53 AM
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Not sure this would benefit me. I am going to upgrade my avr in the next year, so i will get one with the atmos. But, with not having a dedicated theater room I wont be able to have speakers on the ceiling for the right effect, or am I off in my thinking. Waf is not real good with speakers hanging from the ceiling in the middle of the living room. I got away with it in the back of the room, but not in the middle..lol

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post #112 of 408 Old 06-24-2014, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post
I have never installed Audyssey's DSX Heights because they have to be higher than the main speakers.m
No, they need to be at a greater elevation angle, which can be achieved with equal-height speakers that are closer to you than the fronts.
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post #113 of 408 Old 06-24-2014, 09:10 AM
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Noah. I need to get you, Sanjay and I at a table together.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chise View Post
To me it's all hype unless you have a mansion, the average home don't need it.
What is it about the average home that prevents your ears from being able to hear sounds from above?

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post #115 of 408 Old 06-24-2014, 09:50 AM
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What is it about the average home that prevents your ears from being able to hear sounds from above?
All those people still living under a rock, of course.

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post #116 of 408 Old 06-24-2014, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
All those people still living under a rock, of course.
Well I’ve been planning to buy a new receiver once all theHDMI 2.0 products roll out. Looks like I’llbe getting an atmos capable receive no matter what. If I do decide to explore atmos what are myoptions? I just bought some in cellingsurrounds to use in a 5.1 setup and was planning on adding 2 more in a fewmonths to bring it to 7.1. If the rearspeakers are setup in traditional positions what else do I need to do to takeadvantage of atmos?
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post #117 of 408 Old 06-24-2014, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
I kind of felt that way when we went from 5.1 to 7.1. 'my room isn't big enough, I don't need more rear channels', and in fact I'm still running a 5.1 set up. but this isn't adding trivial detail to the same ol surround sound, it's adding the 3rd dimension. I imagine even just ONE overhead speaker would be more noticeable than going from 5.1 to 11.1.


so I'm pretty happy I didn't cave to my urges to upgrade my avr. now I have a goal to aim for, and a reason to be a little more patient. I definitely want atmos, and whatever DTS UHD has as an answer in my next avr.


besides, I just hate the fact that there's something at the theatres I don't have at home, haha.
Well my friend you should go to the movies sometimes that keeps the old lady happy and I have the room put speakers in the ceiling, but I'm not doing that, DolbyD sounds good in my basement.
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post #118 of 408 Old 06-24-2014, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
What is it about the average home that prevents your ears from being able to hear sounds from above?
Insulation?

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post #119 of 408 Old 06-24-2014, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cembros View Post
Well I’ve been planning to buy a new receiver once all theHDMI 2.0 products roll out. Looks like I’llbe getting an atmos capable receive no matter what. If I do decide to explore atmos what are myoptions? I just bought some in cellingsurrounds to use in a 5.1 setup and was planning on adding 2 more in a fewmonths to bring it to 7.1. If the rearspeakers are setup in traditional positions what else do I need to do to takeadvantage of atmos?
See this article
Take cover! Dolby Atmos will rain down sound from above in home theaters - Digital trends

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post #120 of 408 Old 06-24-2014, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by cembros View Post
Well I’ve been planning to buy a new receiver once all theHDMI 2.0 products roll out. Looks like I’llbe getting an atmos capable receive no matter what. If I do decide to explore atmos what are myoptions? I just bought some in cellingsurrounds to use in a 5.1 setup and was planning on adding 2 more in a fewmonths to bring it to 7.1. If the rearspeakers are setup in traditional positions what else do I need to do to takeadvantage of atmos?
The initial rollout of Atmos products will either support 2-4ch heights. It is not a requirement to have 4ch heights but it is suggested.

You could have your 7.1 layout and possibly use an addon height speaker that sits on top of your front left and right and is angled to the ceiling. This small speaker will get discrete height information and will bounce it off your ceiling. It's not clear exactly how this will be marketed. So far there has been a small handful of upcoming Atmos-enabled speakers coming out. Not exactly high end but they have a built in speaker for this height information. I'm about to speculate but there might be products sold to set on top of current speakers. Lol, honestly you could try it with a conventional speaker yourself but it will be subject to it's own off-axis response and any irregular response it would produce.

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