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Old 06-24-2014, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
From what I understand of Atmos, it will be even more flexible than current AVRs, which require only R and L speakers, but make use of several other speakers, if you have them, at various distances. You should be able to describe where your overhead speakers are, if you have any, or maybe the AVR can discover that its own. Then, when it comes time to produce the sounds of attacking helicopters in a rainstorm, say, the AVR will make the best use it can of the located speakers you have been able to provide for it.
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
It's more general than that; something is high if you have to look up to see it, regardless of whether it's in the ceiling or high on a wall.
My question would be: if all the speakers are in the ceiling and sound already coming from above would adding heights do anything different to the sound?


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Old 06-24-2014, 08:05 PM
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I wonder if it will even matter since most Blu rays now are DTS encoded. Dolby dropped the ball on Blu ray. There are a few Dolby releases but it's a very small selection.
I'm thinking that this could signal a rise in the number of Dolby tracks on Blu-ray.
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Old 06-24-2014, 08:14 PM
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Anyone know if timbre matching the heights to the mains is important? I'm gonna be following this closely, as I've been itching to upgrade my AVR for quite some time.
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Old 06-24-2014, 11:12 PM
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All companies would have to do is have the blu-ray player have the new atmos DSP chipsets and then send the information over LPCM or however they choose to the receiver. The blu-ray player would have to know the speaker set-up.
This is what I am hoping for. What are the chances that Oppo or any other BD player company bringing out a player that would process Atmos instead of the need for an AVR. This way weather by HDMI or 7.1 LPCM analogue you get Atmos out of your speakers.

The industry may have a chipset to contain both Atmos and DTS's MDA just like the Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD Master are side by side in players and Pre/pros.

Any opinions on Atmos being delivered through the Blu ray player?

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Old 06-24-2014, 11:19 PM
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I second "Gravity" as being among the first Atmos discs. There's gotta be a reason the first Blu-ray was only 5.1.

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Old 06-24-2014, 11:40 PM
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Oh man, I sure hope so!

I missed Gravity in Atmos.

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Old 06-24-2014, 11:45 PM
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Oh man, I sure hope so!

I missed Gravity in Atmos.
My God, man! You missed out. That Atmos mix (maybe not the movie) was a revelation! A gold standard by which other object audio soundtracks should be measured! Better than anything I'd heard in a theater before. Including IMAX. I'm not kidding here. I can only hope the home version is half as good.

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Old 06-24-2014, 11:55 PM
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I know. Trust me, I'm still PO'd I missed it. No local Atmos where I live. I've been making special trips to LA for some and I've caught quite a few but I missed some really good ones. Will be seeing T4 this coming weekend. Hope it's good! I have heard it will have a very aggressive mix.

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Old 06-25-2014, 04:55 AM
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When i first heard of 'object oriented sound' i hoped it meant we'd start seeing a move towards a more video game approach to movie soundtrack design. I've often felt that i get more of an immersive experience out of my 7.2 setup playing games. Sound seems to come From the object (crackling fire, annoying villager, etc) and the qualities of the sound it makes is anchored to that object - move closer to it, or spin around and that sound becomes louder in the mix, and moves in the room to where it should be based on coordinate logic, on the fly. This helps to orient my own position in relation to what im hearing, which makes for a more 'surrounded' experience. It made me wonder why a movie soundtrack couldn't be mixed the same way, with the levels and orientation of each sound in the mix controlled by the mixer, steering the listener through the linear experience of the movie's 3D soundfield, based on where the sounds are 'actually' coming from -not by deliberately assigning volume and channel values to everything until he thinks it sounds right. If this is what Atmos is all about, ill definitely consider upgrading in a few years.
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Old 06-25-2014, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by ControlZ View Post
It made me wonder why a movie soundtrack couldn't be mixed the same way, with the levels and orientation of each sound in the mix controlled by the mixer, steering the listener through the linear experience of the movie's 3D soundfield, based on where the sounds are 'actually' coming from -not by deliberately assigning volume and channel values to everything until he thinks it sounds right.
Yes, and that's why a system like Atmos will be useful in movie production, as in games. But why is it useful in your home as you watch a movie? At home, there are only a few speakers placed in typical locations, so what sounds from an object should come from which speakers can be mostly pre-calculated (as it is). There seems to be no need for us all to have our individual Atmos systems for watching movies.
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Old 06-25-2014, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by blastermaster View Post
Anyone know if timbre matching the heights to the mains is important? I'm gonna be following this closely, as I've been itching to upgrade my AVR for quite some time.
This is what Chris (CEO of Audyssey) said in regards to timber matching Wides and Heights...

Our recommendation is to use Wides and Heights that are from the same family as your front speakers.

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Old 06-25-2014, 09:00 AM
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Could Atmos be used in next gen video games (PS4 or Xbox One). Imagine Uncharted 4 with Dolby Atmos! That would be a reason for me to upgrade,
right now Im not so sure.
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Old 06-25-2014, 09:18 AM
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Could Atmos be used in next gen video games (PS4 or Xbox One). Imagine Uncharted 4 with Dolby Atmos! That would be a reason for me to upgrade,
right now Im not so sure.
Videogames are already object based and have been for a very long time (except for maybe pre-rendered cutscenes and music) so I'm sure they could make it work.

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Old 06-25-2014, 09:24 AM
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Could Atmos be used in next gen video games (PS4 or Xbox One). Imagine Uncharted 4 with Dolby Atmos! That would be a reason for me to upgrade,
right now Im not so sure.
Games could use a variation of Dolby Atmos which includes not only the location of objects in three-dimensional space, but also the location and orientation of the viewer (i.e. where you are and which direction you are facing). With current movies and TV shows, the location and orientation of the viewer is chosen by the director and set in stone. In games, your position and the direction you are facing is determined by you and is not set in stone, therefore they become variables that must also be rendered on the fly. Video games already do this in two-dimensional space, but I am not aware of any that utilize height or overhead channels.
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Old 06-25-2014, 10:41 AM
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People have enough issues/problems, getting a basic 5.1 surround system in most consumers homes let alone 7.1 (AVS members being the exception of course) how do you expect people to add another 2 or 4 speakers in their ceilings.

This thing is going the way of "Deep Colour" - yes it can be achieved but no one or very few will actually implement it.

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Old 06-25-2014, 10:48 AM
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If you can't even get a proper 5.1 setup then why would one worry about Atmos?

This isn't the product for them, imho.

If you can use 5.1 then you can have Atmos with addon modules or by purchasing new Atmos speakers that have them built in.

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Old 06-25-2014, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post
My question would be: if all the speakers are in the ceiling and sound already coming from above would adding heights do anything different to the sound?m
I wouldn't think so, unless the current positions aren't appropriate.

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Old 06-25-2014, 11:07 AM
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The new receivers that less than 700.00 dollars can't handle 5channels before they start running hot, and now they going to have new sound format and I'm not going to say what brands they are.
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:15 AM
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The new receivers that less than 700.00 dollars can't handle 5channels before they start running hot, and now they going to have new sound format and I'm not going to say what brands they are.
Well that was helpful.

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Old 06-25-2014, 11:34 AM
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So the add on modules will add additional wires, correct? I love the idea of using my set up and just adding small speakers
but good grief i have enough cables already.
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:39 AM
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So the add on modules will add additional wires, correct? I love the idea of using my set up and just adding small speakers
but good grief i have enough cables already.
Haha, yeah. Sorry. More discrete outputs will require more hookups. I guess maybe you could go wireless but that isn't completely wireless since you will need power and signal. Hmmm.

If you are really determined you could replace the current cables with 4 conductor cables. So you'll have two sets of lines going for each cable. Less total cables but it would require you to redo it all. Heh. Maybe not a practical solution for you.
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:49 AM
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Haha, yeah. Sorry. More discrete outputs will require more hookups. I guess maybe you could go wireless but that isn't completely wireless since you will need power and signal. Hmmm.

If you are really determined you could replace the current cables with 4 conductor cables. So you'll have two sets of lines going for each cable. Less total cables but it would require you to redo it all. Heh. Maybe not a practical solution for you.
Yeah, I just bought a new system last year, Sony 1040 and a set of Energy Speakers. Plus a PS4 and an Xbox One.
I wonder how many people will upgrade for this? And I wonder if Sony will announce anything soon about new systems or
firmware.

A new system that really takes advantage wont be cheap...
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:54 AM
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So the add on modules will add additional wires, correct? I love the idea of using my set up and just adding small speakers
but good grief i have enough cables already.
As far as I know, the "Atmos speakers" that serve as both a standard surround channel and have a dedicated driver for a "height" or overhead channel will require two speakers wires. One will carry the signal from the receiver to the standard surround channel drivers. The other will carry the signal from the receiver to the "height" channel driver. If you don't like the look of running two separate 2-conductor speaker wires in parallel, you could create a jacket to bundle them or perhaps even use 4-conductor wire. I would ask someone more familiar with 4-conductor speaker wire installation if this is a good idea. I think that all 4 conductors are equal in terms of size and conductivity, but could be wrong on that.

I imagine that, if they do not exist already, there will probably be a means to connect these speakers wirelessly in the future. Of coarse they would need to have built-in amps for that to work and either a power cord to an outlet or batteries. I wouldn't recommend going this route, but it might be an option.

P.S. Dang it, Scott Simonian, you replied faster than me.
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:03 PM
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I kind of felt that way when we went from 5.1 to 7.1. 'my room isn't big enough, I don't need more rear channels', and in fact I'm still running a 5.1 set up. but this isn't adding trivial detail to the same ol surround sound, it's adding the 3rd dimension. I imagine even just ONE overhead speaker would be more noticeable than going from 5.1 to 11.1.


so I'm pretty happy I didn't cave to my urges to upgrade my avr. now I have a goal to aim for, and a reason to be a little more patient. I definitely want atmos, and whatever DTS UHD has as an answer in my next avr.


besides, I just hate the fact that there's something at the theatres I don't have at home, haha.

I hear quite a difference with 11.2 as opposed to my previous 7.1 ( using DTS NEO:X ). However, that depends on the movie. Master and Commander - yes. Front loaded rom com flick - no. Probably going to be the same with Atmos.

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Old 06-25-2014, 12:13 PM
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Interesting that the labeling for the speaker connectors and pre-outs on the back of the SC-85 only indicate two overhead channels (Top Middle) along with the typical Front-Wides. This would give you a 9.2.2 setup. I wonder if the front wides are re-assignable as Top-Rears with the Top-Middles being moved ahead of you as Top-Fronts to create a 7.2.4 setup as shown in the Dolby Atmos documentation on Onkyo's website.
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:20 PM
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Not sure if this has been covered already but will Dolby Atmos for the home have an upmix algorithm to play back over the additional height speakers?

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Old 06-25-2014, 12:21 PM
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Not sure if this has been covered already but will Dolby Atmos for the home have an upmix algorithm to play back over the additional height speakers?
That's probably where DTS Neo:X and the like come in.

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Old 06-25-2014, 12:23 PM
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That's probably where DTS Neo:X and the like come in.
AFAIK DTS Neo.X doesn't have rear height speakers. It includes width and front left and right height. Only thing I know with rear heights is the Yamaha rear presence DSP (and Auromatic).

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Old 06-25-2014, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post
AFAIK DTS Neo.X doesn't have rear height speakers. It includes width and front left and right height. Only thing I know with rear heights is the Yamaha rear presence DSP (and Auromatic).
I bet it will once DTS-UHD and its package of features roll out.

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Old 06-25-2014, 12:49 PM
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Not sure if this has been covered already but will Dolby Atmos for the home have an upmix algorithm to play back over the additional height speakers?
Since they are introducing a new 7+4 speaker layout, they will likely introduce new surround processing to upmix current source material to that layout.
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AFAIK DTS Neo.X doesn't have rear height speakers.
It might on upcoming gear:


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