Pioneer's Dolby Atmos-Compatible AVRs and Speakers - Page 4 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 24Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #91 of 126 Old 06-26-2014, 10:21 AM
Member
 
bass excavator's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 164
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Sorry for the multiple post here.

Here is another recent interview with DTS's Kellogg on MDA

Pay attention to 2:40 to 3:10
also to 4:45 to 5:15
and also especially 6:15 to 6:40


Somehow Atmos may be too niche for the market to get expansive acceptance. This stuff is what I'm talking about and perhaps this is where the player processing the information will work with the masses AND some of us can run it multichannel pcm.



Enter all at the strait gate and walk the narrow way.
"I am the way the truth and the life, no one enters the Fathers' Kingdom except through me."

Jesus is the strait gate.
bass excavator is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 126 Old 06-26-2014, 10:22 AM
wse
AVS Special Member
 
wse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 6,285
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 106 Post(s)
Liked: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by esappy View Post
yeah, good luck finding a prepro with that many inputs. :d

not even this beast has that many inputs: http://www.goldmund.com/en/products/mimesis_32_5 but 32 output channels is insane!
datasat
wse is offline  
post #93 of 126 Old 06-26-2014, 05:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 8,246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 303 Post(s)
Liked: 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass excavator View Post

Somehow Atmos may be too niche for the market to get expansive acceptance. This stuff is what I'm talking about and perhaps this is where the player processing the information will work with the masses AND some of us can run it multichannel pcm.
DTS MDA and Dolby Atmos work very, very similarly in the cinema realm. That's what they're talking about. It's just that MDA is an open platform, whereas Atmos is proprietary. You want the tools? You have to go through Dolby. DTS has an open language, kind of like Linux, so any body can take the MDA code and go nuts... and the object metadata instructions will still work in any MDA supported renderer.

You will NEVER be able to fit PCM object soundtracks on a Blu-ray or other consumer media platform like a commercial DCP. The master PCM data has to be stripped down with much fewer objects and positional data and losslessly compressed. DTS-UHD (the consumer version of MDA) will have similar limitations as Atmos in that regards. It's just how many compromises DTS has versus Dolby in their implementation of object surround. More than likely, DTS is using a hybrid channel bed + x amount of objects setup for their home version and compressing it all with DTS Master Audio for backwards compatibility.

If DTS-UHD is superior to Dolby Atmos for the home, then I hope that's what studios will start using. And vice versa.
bass excavator likes this.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is offline  
post #94 of 126 Old 06-26-2014, 05:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
SoundChex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA, west coast
Posts: 2,600
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Since most people who purchase object based audio BDs will play them back on a 2.0 platform, the relative merits of Dolby Atmos and DTS-UHD will likely be judged mostly on the ease and effectiveness of user-interactive dialog control|volume|clarity and secondary narration integration. We'll just have to wait and see how inventive movie directors can be with features like "favorite team" . . . and the mind boggles at the possibilities offered by geo-location based selection of 'background' product placement audio objects!
_

[Home Office system schematic]
"My AV systems were created by man. They evolved. They rebelled. There are many speakers. And they have . . . A PLAN."

SoundChex is online now  
post #95 of 126 Old 06-26-2014, 05:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 8,246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 303 Post(s)
Liked: 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post
Since most people who purchase object based audio BDs will play them back on a 2.0 platform, the relative merits of Dolby Atmos and DTS-UHD will likely be judged mostly on the ease and effectiveness of user-interactive dialog control|volume|clarity and secondary narration integration. We'll just have to wait and see how inventive movie directors can be with features like "favorite team" . . . and the mind boggles at the possibilities offered by geo-location based selection of 'background' product placement audio objects!
_
That would be really sad if people actually bought Blu-ray's and a player and only played them in stereo. You would think they would be more tech savvy than that.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is offline  
post #96 of 126 Old 06-26-2014, 07:54 PM
Member
 
bass excavator's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 164
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
You will NEVER be able to fit PCM object soundtracks on a Blu-ray. limitations as Atmos in that regards. It's just how many compromises DTS has versus Dolby in their implementation of object surround. More than likely, DTS is using a hybrid channel bed + x amount of objects setup for their home version and compressing it all with DTS Master Audio for backwards compatibility.

If DTS-UHD is superior to Dolby Atmos for the home, then I hope that's what studios will start using. And vice versa.
Thanks for that answer Dan. What I am seeing in the video I posted is that MDA does not require additional speakers for it to work. One can certainly add more for it to work better but more isn't necessary.
Now if, for example, I'm running multichannel PCM (7.1 analog) can DTS go the way of a processor in the player itself and pass the MDA object-based pack through the analog stages to the 7 channels or will you have to have HDMI bitstreaming only regardless?
I know that Oppo Digital may be considering this option in their players.

Thanks a bunch

Enter all at the strait gate and walk the narrow way.
"I am the way the truth and the life, no one enters the Fathers' Kingdom except through me."

Jesus is the strait gate.
bass excavator is offline  
post #97 of 126 Old 06-26-2014, 10:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
blazar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 2,254
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 238
Looks like what they can fit on a blu-ray disc attached to TrueHD is just 4 extra channels added to 7.1... I am led to believe this based on the devices that have been shown so far.

What in hell will you do with existing wide and height speakers from DTS Neo X and Audyssey systems? They need to at LEAST matrix additional speakers to make use of them. Perhaps the AVR can do this job?

Lets say we get a DTS soundtrack ... what will atmos do with this? Matrix this soundtrack? or will we need to continue to use Neo X? swapping between neoX and atmos is weak....

Blazar!
blazar is offline  
post #98 of 126 Old 06-26-2014, 10:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 8,246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 303 Post(s)
Liked: 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post
Looks like what they can fit on a blu-ray disc attached to TrueHD is just 4 extra channels added to 7.1... I am led to believe this based on the devices that have been shown so far.

What in hell will you do with existing wide and height speakers from DTS Neo X and Audyssey systems? They need to at LEAST matrix additional speakers to make use of them. Perhaps the AVR can do this job?

Lets say we get a DTS soundtrack ... what will atmos do with this? Matrix this soundtrack? or will we need to continue to use Neo X? swapping between neoX and atmos is weak....
We just don't know the details yet. We are all speculating at this point. And Dolby, so far, is staying mute about the details. There are no publicly published white papers either, which is not usually how they roll.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is offline  
post #99 of 126 Old 06-27-2014, 02:40 AM
Newbie
 
Ghenster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
How many discreet sound "objects" can Atmos handle?

Currently with Dolby TrueHD we have 8no. (on blurays anyway) 24-bit, 96 kHz channels. With the addition of a little bit of metadata (already supported) containing the XYZ position of the sound, is it safe to assume we can expect 7 objects, assuming LFE stays as a discreet channel.

With regards to receivers, I suspect we will see "expander" units, that would add processing and amplification for another 6 or 8 atmos channels. Really there is no limit to the number of output channels, just whether you have enough computational power to do the heavy lifting to process the sound in the first place
Ghenster is offline  
post #100 of 126 Old 06-27-2014, 07:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 8,246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 303 Post(s)
Liked: 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghenster View Post
How many discreet sound "objects" can Atmos handle?

Currently with Dolby TrueHD we have 8no. (on blurays anyway) 24-bit, 96 kHz channels. With the addition of a little bit of metadata (already supported) containing the XYZ position of the sound, is it safe to assume we can expect 7 objects, assuming LFE stays as a discreet channel.

With regards to receivers, I suspect we will see "expander" units, that would add processing and amplification for another 6 or 8 atmos channels. Really there is no limit to the number of output channels, just whether you have enough computational power to do the heavy lifting to process the sound in the first place
We do not know the technical details of Atmos (or DTS-UHD, for that matter) as of yet. Dolby's keeping mum for now. There is no data, that I know of, that shows how many discrete objects are included, how many speakers they can be plotted to, and how many channel beds there are.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is offline  
post #101 of 126 Old 06-27-2014, 05:23 PM
Advanced Member
 
Walkamo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 551
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Liked: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
Should be interesting to see what unfolds now that Onkyo just purchased a majority of Pioneer.
For the record, Onkyo did not purchase the majority of Pioneer.

Chris Walker
Pioneer Electronics
Bluescale likes this.
Walkamo is offline  
post #102 of 126 Old 06-28-2014, 07:41 AM
Senior Member
 
zoetmb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 492
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopianemo View Post
I'm not that interested in Atmos. That said, I'm hoping these new receivers will be the higher-tier Elites that have HDMI 2.0 compliance. That's what has me excited.

I wonder if "Atmos-compatible" means you can put it on your ceiling and the sound disperses in the way Dolby wants it to.
Pioneer's new speakers have an additional speaker mounted on the top of the speaker column or bookshelf speaker that points towards the ceiling. That's all it means.

The primary advantage of this is that you don't have to mount additional speakers on the ceiling.

But it doesn't mean that you can't use your current speakers for the main channels for Atmos. But if you didn't buy speakers like this, or simply buy new "tops" for your current speakers, you would have to mount speakers on the ceiling (which would probably be better anyway, aside from the aesthetics).
zoetmb is offline  
post #103 of 126 Old 06-28-2014, 07:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
thrang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 4,125
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 130
The innovation in the industry has largely run its course. Things like Atmos will very likely fall harder than 3d, only because he complication and cost of implementing it is too great for nearly anyone who buys an AVR or processor. Yes, dedicated rooms will be an option, but from a market perspective, that's not peanuts, that's peanut shells.

They even blew it with 4k. Rather than 4k, the next step should have been deeper color and less compression of current HD, designing sufficient bandwidth into the model to eventually move to 4k. As it stands, almost all 4k installations are likely out of spec for viewing distance to perceive the benefit, putting compressed delivery aside.
kriktsemaj99 likes this.
thrang is online now  
post #104 of 126 Old 06-28-2014, 11:22 AM
Advanced Member
 
muad'dib's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 839
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Are the new pioneer sc series receivers going to actually output 11 channels to get full 7.1.4 Soind?

Otherwise, can it use the 9 internal amps and then use 2 external amps to do this?
muad'dib is offline  
post #105 of 126 Old 06-29-2014, 02:36 AM
AVS Special Member
 
PeterTHX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,851
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass excavator View Post
I think that Atmos may be niche only or it will flop like a chicken as how many people are going to get more speakers in their living room. For myself I want nothing more than my 7.1. DTS has MDA and in their 2013 interview their spokesman Kellogg said MDA can work in existing systems. Perhaps Oppo will adopt something like that.

Atmos at home will also work with existing systems. You will also be able to purchase speakers with drivers that fire at the ceiling. There are numerous possibilities.

Quote:
DTS will have the upper hand on this. Who knows by next year what happens

Upper hand? Right now they don't even have any cards, just shuffling the deck. If anything has flopped, it's NEO-X.

My opinions do not reflect the policies of my company
PeterTHX is offline  
post #106 of 126 Old 06-29-2014, 08:20 AM
AVS Special Member
 
SoundChex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA, west coast
Posts: 2,600
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass excavator View Post
I think that Atmos may be niche only or it will flop like a chicken as how many people are going to get more speakers in their living room.

Immersive audio (Atmos, Auro-3D, DTS-UHD) first rendered to the AVR's max capability (N.n) and then reproduced by an over-and-under pair of soundbars using wave front synthesis...





There seems also to have been some thought at one time about placing a third soundbar behind the listening area to anchor rear sounds...???


And I suspect we should also wait to see if there are any credible HTiB offerings from LG or Samsung at CES 2015 . . ?!
_

[Home Office system schematic]
"My AV systems were created by man. They evolved. They rebelled. There are many speakers. And they have . . . A PLAN."


Last edited by SoundChex; 06-29-2014 at 08:41 AM.
SoundChex is online now  
post #107 of 126 Old 06-30-2014, 08:24 AM
Member
 
bass excavator's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 164
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
The innovation in the industry has largely run its course. Things like Atmos will very likely fall harder than 3d, only because he complication and cost of implementing it is too great for nearly anyone who buys an AVR or processor. Yes, dedicated rooms will be an option, but from a market perspective, that's not peanuts, that's peanut shells.

They even blew it with 4k. Rather than 4k, the next step should have been deeper color and less compression of current HD, designing sufficient bandwidth into the model to eventually move to 4k. As it stands, almost all 4k installations are likely out of spec for viewing distance to perceive the benefit, putting compressed delivery aside.
Along with my previous posts I wholeheartedly agree with Thrang on this. Please guys don't get me wrong. Atmos sounds like a new innovation that will provide and added experience to the surround portion of the movie track. I'm sure that whoever buys into it and sets up his/her home with it will enjoy the new technology. This is a fun time for all of us to see the industry moving forward.

My take on this is that the industry in this case, as I mentioned before on this and the other thread, is that it will most definitely be a niche market. Compared to all those who watch movies and have some sort of sound system in their home, very very few will replace their AVRs, pre/pros, and add amplifiers along with overhead speakers just to add more effects. If you look at Audioholics new report on the explanation of Atmos, they do remark that it will be a substantial cost to the buyer to switch over to an Atmos-based system. Not to mention what many women of the home will regard as unsightly overhead speakers. The effect of Atmos will not make 5.1/7.1 systems obsolete just as standard picture was not made obsolete by 3D.

As Thrang pointed out, this technology will fall harder than 3D when considering costs of added and/or replaced components along with the logistics of wiring the setup. It sounds more to me like a dedicated home theater room project. Just think of all those Netflix, Apple, Vudo, etc users out there. About 99.9% of the movie watchers in North America are not the type to be on these forums and upgrading their gear. They just want to watch movies in lossy audio and compressed images (like my brother does).

DTS has not yet come in on this but if/when they do they will circumvent Dolby and come out with a simpler version for the home that will work well on existing systems. They have control of the audio on blu-ray and they won't roll over dead on this. The video I posted shows their intent and it's different from Dolby Labs' approach.

From a logistics (setup) and financial perspective DTS will have a much easier time marketing their home technology than Dolby will, especially with the studios' blu-ray releases for home use.


Enter all at the strait gate and walk the narrow way.
"I am the way the truth and the life, no one enters the Fathers' Kingdom except through me."

Jesus is the strait gate.
bass excavator is offline  
post #108 of 126 Old 06-30-2014, 08:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
GregLee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waimanalo HI
Posts: 3,151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)
Liked: 52
The most economical way of implementing Atmos for the home would be (1) for the AVR to add in the signal for high objects into the respective signals sent to the R, L, SR, SL speakers, and (2) point the tweeters of these four speakers up toward the ceiling (to hopefully bounce the high frequencies off the ceiling).

Greg Lee
GregLee is online now  
post #109 of 126 Old 06-30-2014, 08:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
PeterTHX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,851
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass excavator View Post
From a logistics (setup) and financial perspective DTS will have a much easier time marketing their home technology than Dolby will, especially with the studios' blu-ray releases for home use.
No, they don't.


Atmos is fairly simple and easy to implement at home. Encoding will be easy (so easy they will have TV/streaming content).
Studios still have a great relationship with them and all studios have access to their tools, and they've actually seen & heard it in action.

My opinions do not reflect the policies of my company
PeterTHX is offline  
post #110 of 126 Old 06-30-2014, 08:50 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 18,801
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 536 Post(s)
Liked: 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post
Encoding will be easy (so easy they will have TV/streaming content).
Besides, Dolby has those markets (broadcast, cable, satellite, streaming) all to themselves.

Sanjay
sdurani is online now  
post #111 of 126 Old 06-30-2014, 12:13 PM
Member
 
bass excavator's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 164
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post
No, they don't.


Atmos is fairly simple and easy to implement at home. Encoding will be easy (so easy they will have TV/streaming content).
Studios still have a great relationship with them and all studios have access to their tools, and they've actually seen & heard it in action.
I agree cause that's what they would have to do. As per my long post above, the added gear expenses and logistics just ain't gonna fly with 99% of the population which governs success or failure in the industry.

Enter all at the strait gate and walk the narrow way.
"I am the way the truth and the life, no one enters the Fathers' Kingdom except through me."

Jesus is the strait gate.
bass excavator is offline  
post #112 of 126 Old 06-30-2014, 12:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
PeterTHX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,851
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass excavator View Post
I agree cause that's what they would have to do. As per my long post above, the added gear expenses and logistics just ain't gonna fly with 99% of the population which governs success or failure in the industry.

So how is it different from DTS-MDA? You still have to buy additional gear to get it to work.


Onkyo is even going to offer Atmos in a HTIB system. How simple can you get?
bass excavator likes this.

My opinions do not reflect the policies of my company
PeterTHX is offline  
post #113 of 126 Old 06-30-2014, 12:31 PM
Member
 
bass excavator's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 164
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post
So how is it different from DTS-MDA? You still have to buy additional gear to get it to work.


Onkyo is even going to offer Atmos in a HTIB system. How simple can you get?
Hey Peter

I really don't know where this industry is going to end up. I'm not sure about DTS for that matter. If you would, I'm a supporter of both. You are talking here with a novice in this who is looking at it from a financial and business point of view in terms of the great masses. I am not putting down the technology or anybody who buys into it.

I saw the second video that I posted with John Kellogg of DTS and I am under the impression that you don't need additional gear except maybe there will be implementation of a new chip in either the AVR or at the player level. Could that be true or did I get that one wrong.

Any light you shed on this will be helpful in me understanding the technology.

Thanks

Enter all at the strait gate and walk the narrow way.
"I am the way the truth and the life, no one enters the Fathers' Kingdom except through me."

Jesus is the strait gate.
bass excavator is offline  
post #114 of 126 Old 06-30-2014, 12:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
SoundChex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA, west coast
Posts: 2,600
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
The most economical way of implementing Atmos for the home would be (1) for the AVR to add in the signal for high objects into the respective signals sent to the R, L, SR, SL speakers, and (2) point the tweeters of these four speakers up toward the ceiling (to hopefully bounce the high frequencies off the ceiling).

Probably not quite what you had in mind, but...

Beyond adding processor|firmware capable of decoding Dolby Atmos (or Auro-3D and|or DTS-UHD ...?) it's not clear how much more would be needed to turn this existing 2014 model year HTiB -- LG BH9430PW 9.1ch 3D Home Cinema System (link) (MSRP $799) -- into a competent Atmos 5.1.4 audio platform.


Of course, anyone on AVSForum is probably already committed to at least an 11.x all discrete speaker configuration.

...but we are not really the target market for the LG and Samsung HTiB product lines.
_

[Home Office system schematic]
"My AV systems were created by man. They evolved. They rebelled. There are many speakers. And they have . . . A PLAN."

SoundChex is online now  
post #115 of 126 Old 06-30-2014, 01:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 8,246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 303 Post(s)
Liked: 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass excavator View Post
Hey Peter

I really don't know where this industry is going to end up. I'm not sure about DTS for that matter. If you would, I'm a supporter of both. You are talking here with a novice in this who is looking at it from a financial and business point of view in terms of the great masses. I am not putting down the technology or anybody who buys into it.

I saw the second video that I posted with John Kellogg of DTS and I am under the impression that you don't need additional gear except maybe there will be implementation of a new chip in either the AVR or at the player level. Could that be true or did I get that one wrong.

Any light you shed on this will be helpful in me understanding the technology.

Thanks
Like Atmos, you need a new DTS-UHD capable processor and more speakers. No new Blu-ray player. New encoded discs, yes (for the premium lossless sound).

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is offline  
post #116 of 126 Old 06-30-2014, 06:10 PM
Member
 
bass excavator's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 164
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Found this interesting article from 2012. The interview of John Kellogg from CinemaCon 2014 brings this up to speed and Kellogg seems to be backing this little report.

SRS Labs believes multi-dimensional audio will up-end the audio industry, but does it
work? And will consumers take to it? By Jamie Lendino January 9, 2012 06:30pm EST
SRS Labs is usually known for its surround-sound emulation algorithms. But the company now has a
bigger idea: revamping the entire way the audio industry produces sound. This could be much larger
than an SRS WOW HD button, so it's worth discussing. At CES 2012, SRS Labs pushed the idea of
multi-dimensional audio, which focuses on audio in terms of objects, instead of in channels (such as
5.1, 7.1 channel surround sound). Rather than mixing individual instrument tracks in a song, or
mixing ambient sound, sound effects, and dialog in a movie's audio track, the engineer instead takes
those audio pieces and directs exactly where they go in the listener's physical speaker configuration,
as well as how loud they play.
In other words, instead of an engineer producing a finished, static mix that plays back the same way
regardless of how the playback system is setup—and if the playback system isn't any good or set up
incorrectly, tough luck—the engineer produces a finished bundle of meta-data, complete with digital
instructions on where and how all of the audio pieces play. Then an MDA-compatible renderer, either
in software or built into consumer electronics components, decodes it properly for the listener's
playback system.
This is a subtle but key difference. "For example, once we create this way, we can do an audio
program mix on 11 speakers," said John Kellogg, executive director of corporate strategy at SRS
Labs, in an interview. "Think of a 7.1 speaker with four more speakers for height (11.1). Now we can
take that mix in a dubbing stage on 11 speakers and the MDA player or renderer, as we call it, can
map it to any number of speakers the consumer has. It's one deliverable that translates into any
environment."

The consumer programs the player in the very beginning: "Here's how many speakers I have in my
room: two, five, seven, or whatever; here's where they are, here's how far away from me they are,"
Kellogg continued.
"Once those coordinates are in, the MDA player maps that audio program
beautifully." The goal on the low end is to help people with two speakers, or a soundbar, to get a
much better, 3D-like audio experience than they're getting now, and to help people who didn't place
their speakers properly. On the high end, the surround sound experience would be more defined and
transparent than it is now. SRS Labs talked a lot about systems with 11 speakers, 22 speakers, and
so on with us, but we see that as mainly for commercial installations; we're not expecting the
average home theater owner to go for that sort of thing.

Essentially, SRS Labs is taking the adaptive, object-based audio that the game industry uses (such as
Microsoft XACT, or Creative Labs ISACT), and putting it into a form that works for linear audio, but
with different speaker configurations. Instead of converting sound effects to objects and placing them
in a 3-D field SRS's new system lets audio engineers take apart the pieces of a soundscape and place
them in the appropriate speakers in the listener's own physical environment. It's an existing idea, but
applied to a different kind of situation. But it also means you need a movie or music album mixed in
NDA and an MDA-compatible system to decode it correctly, so it has to be a new industry
standard across the board.
Things like this get the audio community excited on a periodic basis. SRS Labs said some big names
are on already board for MDA, including Skywalker Sound. But there's a huge difference between
that, however, and actually putting MDA-compatible material and MDA-compatible products in front
of consumers—most of whom have already flatly rejected audio-enhancing technologies like SACD
and DVD Audio.
There's no word yet on actual MDA-compatible products or source material yet, but SRS Labs claims
to have a lot in the works. Whatever happens, we're for anything that improves audio playback, as
long as it actually improves it in real-world situations. Here's hoping the company is onto something
that transcends yet another pseudo-surround sound enhancement.
MDA is the first true conceptual leap in the art and science of audio reproduction in the hundred year

Enter all at the strait gate and walk the narrow way.
"I am the way the truth and the life, no one enters the Fathers' Kingdom except through me."

Jesus is the strait gate.
bass excavator is offline  
post #117 of 126 Old 06-30-2014, 08:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 8,246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 303 Post(s)
Liked: 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass excavator View Post
Found this interesting article from 2012. The interview of John Kellogg from CinemaCon 2014 brings this up to speed and Kellogg seems to be backing this little report.
DTS bought SRS and adapted/tweaked their MDA object technology, made it open source, and is in the process of using it for consumer DTS-UHD.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is offline  
post #118 of 126 Old 06-30-2014, 09:09 PM
Member
 
bass excavator's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 164
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
DTS bought SRS and adapted/tweaked their MDA object technology, made it open source, and is in the process of using it for consumer DTS-UHD.
Well this industry is changing and is in for a refresh. I suspect that Dolby Atmos and DTS-UHD will be more readily available to enjoy in their fullest potential than 4k. I like to buy a 4k tv someday but will 8k come in to nullify that?

Enter all at the strait gate and walk the narrow way.
"I am the way the truth and the life, no one enters the Fathers' Kingdom except through me."

Jesus is the strait gate.
bass excavator is offline  
post #119 of 126 Old 06-30-2014, 11:57 PM
Member
 
esappy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Poulsbo, Washington
Posts: 186
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass excavator View Post
Well this industry is changing and is in for a refresh. I suspect that Dolby Atmos and DTS-UHD will be more readily available to enjoy in their fullest potential than 4k. I like to buy a 4k tv someday but will 8k come in to nullify that?
Sure it will. Years from now. So the real question is do you keep waiting for that next big thing or do you just take what is available now and enjoy the ride for a while. Their is always going to be something better on the horizon and with the rate technology is changing that horizon is always getting closer than it used to be. Thats the difference between my grandparents owning a black and white TV for over 20 years an I upgrade my TV about every 7 years. Hell my projector is still a 720p Sony from about 8 years ago. I too would like to buy a 4k TV someday, well actually a projector as I think most modern sized TV's are just too small to be beneficial unless you are a big computer gamer planning to use that TV as a monitor. But readily available 4k content is still far away (and unless Netflix uses some amazing codec to get great quality, I wont consider them a useful readily available source.) But like you said, Atmos content is just around the corner and in the best medium we have readily available and after hearing it in the theater, if the home version is anywhere close to it then, IMHO, it will be a worthwhile upgrade and I hope consumer America or world for that matter takes a liking to it too. Yeah I cant wait!

"Harry feels guilt pangs, but Ronnie The Bear could give a @#$!."

esappy is offline  
post #120 of 126 Old 07-01-2014, 07:19 AM
wse
AVS Special Member
 
wse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 6,285
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 106 Post(s)
Liked: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by esappy View Post
Yeah, good luck finding a prepro with that many inputs. Not even this beast has that many inputs: http://www.goldmund.com/en/products/mimesis_32_5 But 32 output channels is insane!

Trinnov Altitude32
wse is offline  
Reply Latest Industry News

Tags
frontpage

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off