Pioneer Unloads Home Electronics Business - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 112 Old 06-24-2014, 07:54 PM
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One look at BPEAsia's website and you know it'll be good for the partners, but you have to wonder how good it'll be for Pioneer loyalists.
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post #32 of 112 Old 06-24-2014, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post
DJ'ing equipment (aka mixers and CD/DVD/media players). But, this is depressing.
I am still curious to see the new Elite AVRs tomorrow.

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post #33 of 112 Old 06-24-2014, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by morbidcorpse View Post
Ironically, I just sold a pioneer receiver to buy an onkyo because I wanted Audyssey. MCACC does a decent enough job with main speakers for movies, bit it absolutely SUCKS for music.....not to mention, MCACC murders the bass.
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I'm aware of this, which is one of the reasons I wanted to transition away from MCACC.
So murdering the bass is because you knew it only set distance and level for the sub?
Done Deal DR likes this.

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post #34 of 112 Old 06-24-2014, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BNestico View Post
I wonder if this will push Onkyo into finally adding Airplay to their AVRs. That's a big deal for Apple users like myself. Makes listening to music from my phone very easy. I know they have Bluetooth on their AVRs but that's still not as good and as easy to use as Airplay.
I press one button on my Onkyo and as long as wifi is turned on for my (or my wife's, or daughters') Android, it plays just fine. I can also control the receiver from my phone. I would think that there would be some sort of app if nothing else. Every feature like that means more licensing from companies like Apple, and that drives the cost up. For people like us who half of us switched from Apple to Android (and are never going back), that is a feature that we don't need or want to pay for.

So it is a mixed back. I certainly understand your desire for Airplay, but I am just offering a counter-perspective to it.

Also, related to the topic, I was a Pionner Elite user for many years, but switched to Onkyo 2 years ago with my current theater. I actually really love the features of the Onkyo and am using a mix of acoustical treatments in my theater and Audyssey to fill in or try to fix what the treatments don't do due to limitations with aesthetics and my wife's approval of what the theater looks like. I couldn't get that with Pioneer.
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post #35 of 112 Old 06-24-2014, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by mhufnagel View Post
So what's left for them to sell now? Car audio and Laser Discs?

DJ equipment. They are the top dogs in that market.
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post #36 of 112 Old 06-24-2014, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by morbidcorpse View Post
Ironically, I just sold a pioneer receiver to buy an onkyo because I wanted Audyssey. MCACC does a decent enough job with main speakers for movies, bit it absolutely SUCKS for music.....not to mention, MCACC murders the bass.
Finally! I thought I was the only one with that opinion. I gave them two chances, buying two 1123k (?) receivers from Best Buy a few months back. Movies sounded ok, but the imaging was horrible for music--instead of a seamless blend of sound from my mains, it just sounded like to individual speakers doing their own thing, with vocals totally NOT in the center of the tv screen like they had been previously. Also, network connection dropping, way too many buttons on the remote, and the 2nd one I bought refused to fully power up, citing some overheating status or something (even with nothing attached to it).

My 14 year old Onkyo receiver is still going strong, used only as a multi channel amp for my Oppo. I wouldn't dare buy a new Onkyo with all the HDMI board issues, though. Hopefully yours will be fine.
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post #37 of 112 Old 06-24-2014, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by DocOrange88 View Post
Not a fan of Onkyo...
I used to be but I am 2 for 2 with overheating and HDMI issues.
Now I have a Pioneer VSX-52 and love it.

Sharp Elite Pro 60

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post #38 of 112 Old 06-24-2014, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Dark Matter View Post
Finally! I thought I was the only one with that opinion. I gave them two chances, buying two 1123k (?) receivers from Best Buy a few months back. Movies sounded ok, but the imaging was horrible for music--instead of a seamless blend of sound from my mains, it just sounded like to individual speakers doing their own thing, with vocals totally NOT in the center of the tv screen like they had been previously. Also, network connection dropping, way too many buttons on the remote, and the 2nd one I bought refused to fully power up, citing some overheating status or something (even with nothing attached to it).

My 14 year old Onkyo receiver is still going strong, used only as a multi channel amp for my Oppo. I wouldn't dare buy a new Onkyo with all the HDMI board issues, though. Hopefully yours will be fine.
I had initially thought some of the same things with my VSX-52 after I sold my old ONKYO. After doing some reading and tweaking I manage to get this Pioneer sounding better than my ONKYO (only a 606).

Sharp Elite Pro 60

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post #39 of 112 Old 06-24-2014, 10:50 PM
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Sansui, Akai, Kenwood, Technics, Pioneer - Not many of the vintage manufacturers left.

A moment of silence in memory.

.
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post #40 of 112 Old 06-24-2014, 11:43 PM
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I guess to each their own but I have not had any issues with my Onkyo AVR a side from the occasional network hiccup but thats probably more my bad for how often I reset the router due to issues with Time Warner ~_~

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post #41 of 112 Old 06-25-2014, 12:02 AM
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Back when I bought my lower end receiver I purchased a few receivers (Pioneer's, Denon's and Onkyo's_ and end up returning them and finally settling on an Onkyo 805. To me it did the best job at pushing my speakers as well as meeting my requirements for blu-ray. That said I think Pioneer receivers are very nice as well and a great value, especially the higher end range.

I love Pioneer head units for cars, I hope they keep going strong.
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post #42 of 112 Old 06-25-2014, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidK442 View Post
Sansui, Akai, Kenwood, Technics, Pioneer - Not many of the vintage manufacturers left.

A moment of silence in memory.
Technics is still around....just a brand name of Panasonic's in any case.

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post #43 of 112 Old 06-25-2014, 02:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikkuranus View Post
My thoughts are the hdmi boards are equally crap at least after owning the vsx 1122k. All of the hdmi ports on that receiver werent properly soldered and came lose within the return period and no I didn't plug/unplug them repeatedly till it broke.
Any VSX ones are junk, I had three of them and got rid of them, one of my friends BB he said, he sent two of the new ones back already, from my experience stick with SC models
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post #44 of 112 Old 06-25-2014, 03:10 AM
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I'm surprised the Korean's aren't going into the home theater business. Samsung and LG seem to be everywhere except HT. It seems the easiest way to get in is to purchase a troubled Japanese unit. I wonder if it's a pride thing. The Japanese seem to be disliked by everyone in their region.
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post #45 of 112 Old 06-25-2014, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post
That's a matter of opinion, innit?. The Pro-Logic receiver I owned from the 90s lasted forever (I eventually sold it in 2010/11). The SC-05 I have now is also going strong.

It's sad to see Pioneer disintegrate before our very eyes.
Vintage-heads will never be satisfied by anything but their SX-1980 holy grail :eyeroll:, yet as novel as that behemoth is, I'd say that of the modern stuff, the peak came with the VSX-49TX, and 59TXi circa the early 2000s, which I know you and I have discussed before, Vinnie. Major important fact was that those tanks were the last of the Made in Japan variety (even the big-daddy SC-09TX was made in Malaysia by that point) and it shows throughout the construction and even the way the caps and power supply components are carefully labeled almost as if to be seen. Even the touchscreen remote, which was honestly a pain to use, was a completely over-engineered piece of gear. Sadly, this era suffered from digital board failures which put a bit of a damper on their legendary status, but took NOTHING away from their flawless construction and attention to details.

I do have to admit, even having a pair of BeoLab 5s, I'm surprised to hear so much love lavished on ICE amps which is nice to hear. On the audiophile 2 channel side, Ice stuff is generally derided for having negative characteristics in the treble and such (again, eyeroll). Yet having the Lab 5s in the same listening room with 802Ds on good amplification, I prefer the Lab 5s and their supposedly "horrible" ICE amplification.

Interestingly, I too still have a fully functional Pro-Logic VSX-406 from *1996* that NEVER is turned off because it serves as a homebrew subwoofer amp at my brother's place. It just keeps going and going and going, and that was a MID level model that wasn't even Japanese made.

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post #46 of 112 Old 06-25-2014, 03:37 AM
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I wouldn't touch these receivers they're coming out with until DTS's version of OBA comes out. And even then, is it worth it with only a 7.2 setup?
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post #47 of 112 Old 06-25-2014, 03:53 AM
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IMO it seems impossible to "do it alone" when it comes to ANY business (cars, ce devices, PC's etc). Everything is about the "bottom line" and once that call has been made, it's a gradual downhill slide for the enthusiast to stand by their (once built to a standard) products.

I have had an Onkyo (another seemingly independent brand) for over 2 years (TX-NR809). It has given me NO major issues (yet) and I still believe it is a quality product based on its features and sound quality. Seems to me the latest (Onkyo) models are starting to drop the (expensive to license) features to keep up the bottom line. If that keeps the sound quality overall competitive, then I might look to them for a replacement once mine bites the dust.
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post #48 of 112 Old 06-25-2014, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by jfbar1 View Post
IMO it seems impossible to "do it alone" when it comes to ANY business (cars, ce devices, PC's etc). Everything is about the "bottom line" and once that call has been made, it's a gradual downhill slide for the enthusiast to stand by their (once built to a standard) products.

I have had an Onkyo (another seemingly independent brand) for over 2 years (TX-NR809). It has given me NO major issues (yet) and I still believe it is a quality product based on its features and sound quality. Seems to me the latest (Onkyo) models are starting to drop the (expensive to license) features to keep up the bottom line. If that keeps the sound quality overall competitive, then I might look to them for a replacement once mine bites the dust.
Pioneer has all the models listed on their website already

AVR: Pioneer SC-67
Display: Samsung PN60F8500
LCR: Def Tech Mythos 2, 8, 2
Sub: SVS SB-2000
Blu Ray: Oppo 103D
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post #49 of 112 Old 06-25-2014, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Daniel Chaves View Post
I guess to each their own but I have not had any issues with my Onkyo AVR a side from the occasional network hiccup but thats probably more my bad for how often I reset the router due to issues with Time Warner ~_~
My Onkyo 705 subwoofer channel doesn't work anymore. You have to move the cable around and hold it in position to get a signal from the sub. I stopped using it when I got the Pioneer receiver besides taking it back out for a few listening test. No clue what caused it to go bad.

home theater addict
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post #50 of 112 Old 06-25-2014, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Manic1! View Post
DJ equipment. They are the top dogs in that market.
How sad.

My first home receiver was a Pioneer that I bought in 1975. My first home cd player in the 80's was a Pioneer too. They might as well sell out to the Chinese now.
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post #51 of 112 Old 06-25-2014, 07:10 AM
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I agree. I had my SC-55 in my media room for about two years, loved it. I picked up the SC-79 for a couple of weeks and returned it, only 9.2 and had a composite video issue. Picked up the Denon 4520 for 11.2 in my media room. Moved the SC-55 downstairs. The 55 is a great AVR!

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I do love my Elite SC-55
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post #52 of 112 Old 06-25-2014, 08:26 AM
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I have been installing AV equipment longer than I care to mention and maybe its my ears but I could not hear the difference between the ICE amps versus the D3 amps but what I have noticed neither sounded strained when cranked and presented with low impedance as opposed to their equally priced class AB counterparts.
I also have a hard time discerning between Wolfson and Sabre DACs as to me either produce a great sound.
What I do agree with some posters about RC I prefer it get out of the way of my music and that pretty much goes for all of them with the exception of DIRAC which is way beyond my budget for now and the forceable future.
I still like what I see from Pioneer and will continue to recommend and install them until they no longer meet our companies standards so heres hoping whoever takes ownership does not ruin it.
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post #53 of 112 Old 06-25-2014, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I am still curious to see the new Elite AVRs tomorrow.
As am I. In spite of the wanton negativity in this thread(sadly typical of AVS posters), I am really excited to see what Pioneer has to show. I'm also curious to hear what you have to say about the SQ, if you get to hear any of the AVRs. If anything, the general consensus from pro reviews seems to be that the SQ has gotten better since they stopped using the B&O ICE amps, because the ICE amps sounded a little too sterile. Hopefully Scott will get to report on it for the HT Geeks podcast as well. Good luck and have fun!
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post #54 of 112 Old 06-25-2014, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
So murdering the bass is because you knew it only set distance and level for the sub?
Not sure what you're asking me, here? I can say this was my first real AVR and when I purchased, I didn't fully understand the advantage of receivers that include sub EQ. It was when I recently upgraded to a real subwoofer and I wasn't getting any decent extension out of it, that I began to fully understand the Pioneer's weakness in that area. Also, when just playing 2-channel stereo with no subwoofer, my mains (Mirage OMD-28's) were weak and anemic on the bass, which they should not have been. I'm getting much better results on both fronts with Audyssey. So am I to be publically challenge/scolded for having a learning curve? Sorry we don't all know EVERYTHING about HT right off the bat, like you. Some of us learn through trial and error.

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post #55 of 112 Old 06-25-2014, 09:37 AM
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I wasn't aware that Onkyo wasn't going to use Audyssey in the future? Dang

I love my Pioneer Elite in the living room which has given zero problems but Audyssey XT and above wipes the floor with MCCAC.

I hope Onkyo doesnt adopt that room correction as its pretty primitive IMO.

Guess that leaves Dennon.

Don't waste time reading signatures.....
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post #56 of 112 Old 06-25-2014, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post
My Onkyo 705 subwoofer channel doesn't work anymore. You have to move the cable around and hold it in position to get a signal from the sub. I stopped using it when I got the Pioneer receiver besides taking it back out for a few listening test. No clue what caused it to go bad.
I bought my HTiB (second hand/open box) when I got the sub it was dead BUT who knows what the real cause was so they sent me a replacement sub from a different model and I noticed that the sub used and the amp where Identical so I swapped the guts and its been kicking ever since.



Okay here is a question for those who have had issues with Onkyo, was it their THX line you had issues with or their non-THX line? maybe that is the difference in possible quality standards?

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post #57 of 112 Old 06-25-2014, 11:46 AM
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Guess we will have to see what comes out of this. Pioneer was always my first choice for AVR's. Never really liked Onkyo products. Maybe they will leave Pioneer alone and let them continue to do there own thing. Something to keep an eye on.
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post #58 of 112 Old 06-25-2014, 11:49 AM
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My first receiver was a Sansui, don't even remember the model. Purchased around 1975 or 76'. I left it at home with my mother when I moved out and when I finally had to mover her out and pack up her house that receiver was still going strong in 2009.

Despite the apparent dislike for Onkyo here, I love my NR808 and have had zero issues until the HDMI board failed just a couple of weeks ago. However I must say Onkyo's customer service was excellent and they are covering it as a warranted item even though the unit was purchased in Nov 2010. What more would you want from customer support?

BTW, when I dropped it off at the authorized repair shop, I explained the faults and the guy reached under the counter and pulled out a couple of OTHER brand HDMI boards just to show me what failed. They all looked about the same and they all had similar failures. It's not brand specific and Pioneer is not immune. But hey, mine lasted three and a half years and they covered it. Well done by Onkyo IMHO. The repair guy did say that so far, they've had none of the replacement boards come back.

And I really like my Audyssey room correction. It works we'll for my 7.2 setup in a somewhat awkward room layout and sounds incredible on DTS blue ray content with my Definitive speakers.
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post #59 of 112 Old 06-25-2014, 11:54 AM
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I wasn't aware that Onkyo wasn't going to use Audyssey in the future? Dang

I love my Pioneer Elite in the living room which has given zero problems but Audyssey XT and above wipes the floor with MCCAC.

I hope Onkyo doesnt adopt that room correction as its pretty primitive IMO.

Guess that leaves Dennon.
The advantage MCACC has is that you have more control after you calibrate. You can adjust anything you want and still keep the calibration. Audyssey doesn't let you do that. There's no tweaking at all. Not to mention you can save your calibration to 6 memory slots and do 3 different types of calibrations. This makes it so easy to compare different results. Since there's no sub EQ i use the standing wave filters, which is basically a PEQ. Then i just bump the sub level from those filters 3db. It makes a huge difference for me. imo, MCACC is much better than Audyssey just because you have so much stuff you can tweak to make the sound better. But i find MCACC calibrates better than Audyssey in my room anyway.

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Last edited by saprano; 06-25-2014 at 11:58 AM.
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post #60 of 112 Old 06-25-2014, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post
That's a matter of opinion, innit?. The Pro-Logic receiver I owned from the 90s lasted forever (I eventually sold it in 2010/11). The SC-05 I have now is also going strong.

It's sad to see Pioneer disintegrate before our very eyes.
this has been a long time coming and really no big surprise
If I were a betting man I would say they lost their A&% on their TV business when they were still a player

They were having very bad financial issues when I bought my SC 07 years ago...like 2008-2009?
It was rumored, at that time, that they were going to get out of the home audio business and concentrate of the much more profitable car audio business

I have long since gotten rid of the Sc07...but I still hang on to an SC37, a unit others have mentioned that was the pinnacle of that series.

So now its Yamaha, D&M and a bigger Onkyo that are left of the Asians.... I cant imagine this "new" pioneer is going to having much other than "me -too" units that dont need require much in the area of innovation or new R&D


Warren

Rm 1 Samsung 64F8500 Onkyo 5508 prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A amp Atlantic technology System 350 THX Ultra speakers
Rm 2 LG 47LE8500 Pioneer SC37 Celestion 305 speaker system
Rm 3 Samsung 51E8000 Yamaha A2010 Kef 2005.2 speaker system
Rm 4 Panasonic 50ST50 Onkyo 5009/906 Mirage Omni sat speaker system

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