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post #1 of 23 Old 06-27-2014, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Your Next TV Conference at CE Week 2014



Scott Wilkinson co-chaired this fascinating and informative half-day conference featuring some of the TV industry's brightest minds.

Among the many events at this year's CE Week—the consumer-electronic industry's mid-year conclave in New York City—was a half-day conference called Your Next TV, which I co-chaired with long-time industry consultant Geoff Tully. Six panel discussions featured a total of 21 industry experts speaking to a packed house of journalists and other tech types about the current state of television and its future prospects from the perspective of market analysts, manufacturers, technologists, retailers, and reviewers.

The entire conference was recorded on video, which I offer for your viewing enjoyment here. We stuffed a huge amount of information into half a day, so hold onto your hat as we discuss what you need to know to buy your next TV.

By The Numbers: What are the trends and forecasts?


Since last year, the market for Ultra HD has gone from speculation to reality—sort of. There are plenty of displays available at retail, and many more (and varied) models scheduled for release this year. But questions that we raised a year ago remain: How fast will the market for UHD grow? What prices and trends are emerging for devices? Will adoption be driven by price erosion, or will Ultra HD offer enough value to support higher margins for suppliers? In addition, Smart TV is becoming an increasingly important feature, not only for delivery of advanced content such as 4K, but also as an added value in Full HD displays. This panel of seasoned analysts explores these and other essential strategic questions as they share their forecasts.

- Geoffrey Tully (conference chair; moderator)
- Shawn DuBravac (Chief Economist and Director of Research, CEA)
- Paul Gagnon (Director of Global TV Research, NPD DisplaySearch)
- Jack Wetherill (Senior Market Analyst, Futuresource)

What You Can See: The latest TVs have features and functions to expand and enhance your viewing experience


The consumer experience of Ultra HD begins and ends with the displays. At each of the last two CES shows, there were models from a growing variety of manufacturers and at an expanding range of prices. This select panel of manufacturer representatives discuss the features that set their respective products apart, their expectations for content, and the trends they see driving their respective roadmaps for market growth and penetration.

- Scott Wilkinson (conference co-chair, moderator)
- Tim Alessi (Director, Product Development, LG Electronics)
- Scott Ramirez (Vice President, Product Marketing and Development, Toshiba)
- Jim Sanduski (Senior Vice President, Strategic Product Marketing, Sharp Electronics)
- Dan Schinasi (Senior Manager of Product Planning, Samsung Electronics America)
- Brian Siegel (Director of Sony Store Online, Sony)
- Ben Verbraak (Video Product Manager, Bang & Olufsen)

The Brains: Smart TV functionality brings new content to HD and UHD TVs alike


Online content is fast becoming a primary source of TV entertainment, and some manufacturers are scrambling to keep up with a growing number of so-called Smart TV apps. Others are taking charge of this technology to enhance their product offerings and enable delivery of new entertainment experiences. In this panel, we learn about the state of Smart TV from analysts tracking the trends and from the companies that are bringing this capability to consumers.

- Pete Lude (CTO, Mission Rock Digital; moderator)
- Matthew Durgin (Director, Smart TV Content, LG Electronics)
- Barbara Kraus (Director of Research, Parks Associates)
- Vishnu Rao (Director, Product Technology Development, Sharp)
- Paul Sweeting (Principal, Concurrent Media Strategies)

More Than Just Pixels: Extended dynamic range, higher frame rate, expanded color gamut–what they really mean to the viewing experience


The first thing that defines Ultra HD is "more resolution" (i.e., more pixels). But there are other capabilities that many feel are more significant in driving adoption of this technology. Industry experts describe a number of these features and the developments that are underway to bring them into the living room.

- Geoffrey Tully (moderator)
- Joe Kane (CEO, Joe Kane Productions)
- Pete Lude (CTO, Mission Rock Digital)
- Brian Markwalter (SVP Research and Standards, Consumer Electronics Association)
- Mark Schubin (Chief Information Server at SchubinCafe.com)

Selling the Sizzle: The new TV experience at retail


We can talk about Ultra HD and Smart TV all day long, but consumers won't understand how much better it can look until they see it for themselves, and the only place to do that is in a retail showroom. Two veteran AV retailers discuss the challenges of demonstrating the latest UHD & Smart TVs and remaining relevant in the era of online shopping.

- Geoffrey Tully (moderator)
- Tom Campbell (Consumer Visionary and Entrepreneur, Global Technologist)
- Robert Zohn (President and Founder, Value Electronics)

What This All Means: How to buy your next TV


This wrap-up session looks at the choices consumers face as they consider new televisions from the perspective of some of the most respected providers of technology descriptions and product reviews and ratings. What are they trying to tell you, and what can you learn from them as you shop for your next TV?

- Scott Wilkinson (moderator)
- David Katzmaier (Senior Editor/Head TV Reviewer, CNET)
- James K. Willcox (Senior Editor/Electronics, Consumer Reports)

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post #2 of 23 Old 06-27-2014, 04:20 PM
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I am glad that Mr. Schubin got dressed up for the panel!
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post #3 of 23 Old 06-28-2014, 05:29 AM
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In this industry, they tell us what we need not the other way around. There was never any clamor for 4K or 3D after all. They seem to never listen to us. Of course, all in an effort to sell us stuff we don't really need.
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post #4 of 23 Old 06-28-2014, 07:21 AM
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Crt was the only TV,then came 720P TV,which was my first HD TV!The content was slow to come along and when it did it does command a higher price!All the TV providers charge extra for HD(1080i,720p) and still more for 1080P!
I watch Ice Hockey and what a difference with a 720P TV! I could see the puck clearly and follow it, even with a little lag(8ms).I tried Plasma and it look too grainy compared to LCD.
Coming from a CRT to a 32 inch(720p) was a big jump,the next step was a 42 inch,but the bigger TV(720p) didn't look as sharp as the 32. The solution to a bigger screen was 1080p and it worked for me up to a 55 inch TV!
Just to give you a idea about CRT,my cousin invited me over to watch hockey on his CRT 32 inch.
I could not read the boxes on the picture that tell the score,it took some time for my eyes to adjust back to a 480 CRT.
Now we have come to 4K and a bigger TV for me.I have looked at 65-80 inch 1080p,just not sharp enough close up.
While entertaining, people are at different lengths from the TV,some are close up, which the TV still should look sharp!
What does all this have to do with Your Next TV? If you build it, content will come! Bigger TV'S need 4K! 3D needs(passive) Bigger TV'S for theater experience! For me it also will be a 10 bit panel for the future! 10 bit vs 8 bit is just like HDMI 1.4 vs 2.0, you will need it!
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post #5 of 23 Old 06-28-2014, 12:47 PM
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4k is indeed a work in progress
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post #6 of 23 Old 06-28-2014, 02:22 PM
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I was surprised with the OLED and 2020 discussions.
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post #7 of 23 Old 06-28-2014, 03:02 PM
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Good job by Scott, much appreciated. I wish they would refrain from saying "great quality" - guess they don't realize it's a empty phrase that comes across as hype.
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post #8 of 23 Old 06-28-2014, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by JWhip View Post
In this industry, they tell us what we need not the other way around. There was never any clamor for 4K or 3D after all. They seem to never listen to us. Of course, all in an effort to sell us stuff we don't really need.
Life is about options.
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post #9 of 23 Old 06-28-2014, 05:51 PM
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Interesting POV from the manufacturers of UHD, but nothing pressing that would cause someone with a satisfactory HD to go out and buy UHD today.
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post #10 of 23 Old 06-28-2014, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Mrorange303 View Post
Life is about options.
Electronic companies do not give consumers options, you either get tvs's with low picture quality or high end tv's with wireless spy devices built-in.

People want high quality tv pictures with no wireless crap built-in, but the electronic overlords do not want consumers to have an option.
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post #11 of 23 Old 06-28-2014, 06:57 PM
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I'm sure these are fascinating, but I don't have 3 hours to listen to them. It would be nice if there were transcripts.

Looky here!
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post #12 of 23 Old 06-28-2014, 09:53 PM
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I was surprised with the OLED and 2020 discussions.
What did they say?
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post #13 of 23 Old 06-29-2014, 03:11 AM
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Electronic companies do not give consumers options, you either get tvs's with low picture quality or high end tv's with wireless spy devices built-in.

People want high quality tv pictures with no wireless crap built-in, but the electronic overlords do not want consumers to have an option.
Vizio is coming out with 4k P and R series that drop 3d and no cameras,they have wifi if you want netflix.
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post #14 of 23 Old 06-29-2014, 07:04 AM
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For the enthusiast, the potential advances in consumer video are exciting. Unfortunately, now that most consumers already have large thin panel displays mounted to their walls enticing them to spend money on an upgrade will be difficult.

.
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post #15 of 23 Old 06-29-2014, 11:07 AM
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As Mark Schubin already stated: 4K is useless without HFR.

More than 90% percent in a movie are moving pictures (Yes, that's why their called movies).
As soon as the camera moves (pans) or the object moves, the image losses temporal resolution and becomes blurry.
Not even 8K is going to save us from motion blur (not going into eye-tracking motion blur here), but HFR will.

I hope the new Blu Ray standard will let the studios choose what format (FPS, Gamut, Resolution, etc...) the movie will be played at.
1080p at 60 or 48fps is WAY better experience than 4K at 24fps for your brain and actual perceivable resolution, and it takes less (about half) the data that 4k need for 24fps.
Not to mention that 99.99999% of cinema masters are still 2K, and nobody complains.

What they should do at these TV gatherings is to show 1080@60 vs 4K@24 side by side with real moving movies (not still pictures).
Not only you have to be 3 feet from a 65" tv to see the difference (in still pictures), but as soon as the picture moves, you can throw 4K in the bin.

Oh, well...
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post #16 of 23 Old 06-29-2014, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post
What did they say?
Everybody else had appeared to be quite against OLED, then when the LG guy started talking about it then they started agreeing but it was weird. Like watching salesmen disagreeing with each other.

It was like the others didn't want to know about it. Then nodding for the sake of nodding.


Then Joe Kane with 2020, I'd have to watch it again… but he said it wont be 2020. Something lower but it didn't sound good. He said it's not going to work. Something about bandwidth issues.

The other thing I thought was odd, the guy with the shorts was more obsessed with 4k resolution than anything else. It never really felt like listening to honest guys like this forum from the highly respected ISF professional calibrators.

Most of it to some degree felt like selling you what they felt you should have rather than what the industry needs.

Listening to the ISF CEO, Joel Silver was more knowledgable than these manufacturers.
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post #17 of 23 Old 06-30-2014, 10:32 AM
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Let's hope the tv industry can get it right this go around.
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post #18 of 23 Old 06-30-2014, 04:41 PM
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Backlighting

Overall, I appreciated having Scott put these online and the ability to pick and choose not only what to listen to .. but also to make my own decisions about whose arguments make the most sense to me in order to refine my 'next TV' buying experience. Tks Scott ..also enjoyed the individual interviews.

A little off topic but I noticed that each of the TVs behind the panel members had a blue backlight. Does anyone know what this is and if this is the latest backlight? I've seen some discussion of flat panel back-lighting but as I recall, it was all compact fluorescent with a mostly white spectrum. Is blue backlighting the new trend or was this just someone's idea of making the TVs stand out for the video?
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post #19 of 23 Old 06-30-2014, 04:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Overall, I appreciated having Scott put these online and the ability to pick and choose not only what to listen to .. but also to make my own decisions about whose arguments make the most sense to me in order to refine my 'next TV' buying experience. Tks Scott ..also enjoyed the individual interviews.

A little off topic but I noticed that each of the TVs behind the panel members had a blue backlight. Does anyone know what this is and if this is the latest backlight? I've seen some discussion of flat panel back-lighting but as I recall, it was all compact fluorescent with a mostly white spectrum. Is blue backlighting the new trend or was this just someone's idea of making the TVs stand out for the video?
Thanks for the kind words! You definitely got what I was trying to do with putting multiple videos in one post.

As for those blue backlights, I believe they were simply a design element on the stage; they were not meant to portray some new approach to bias lighting. Doing something like that actually degrades the color perception of the image, but it was not a critical-viewing environment; those screens were mainly for PowerPoint presentations.

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post #20 of 23 Old 07-01-2014, 11:38 PM
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As for those blue backlights, I believe they were simply a design element on the stage; they were not meant to portray some new approach to bias lighting. Doing something like that actually degrades the color perception of the image, but it was not a critical-viewing environment; those screens were mainly for PowerPoint presentations.
Tks very much for the clarification Scott.
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post #21 of 23 Old 07-01-2014, 11:57 PM
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I must admit that I'm a little confused by "seeing is believing" message from the retailers. Personally, I've seen a number of UHD sets in retailing situations running canned demos and they have been stunning in terms of resolution and vibrant colors. However, there's still a number of people (including some in these videos) who are essentially saying that at 10 feet, you can't tell the difference between HD and UHD at sizes in the 60" range. And yet others are saying that most of the upscaling is capable of significant viewing improvements and might be responsible for the bulk of the content that people with UHD TVs will be viewing for awhile. So, I'm having trouble squaring these 3 seemingly contradictory messages. The "you can't tell the difference" comment may be valid for resolution .. but it seems that some of these demos are able to portray improved colors and maybe HDR .. yet how can they do that unless they already support extended color palettes or HDR? I swear the demos are stunning even at 10 feet with crap store lighting and probably no calibration ... is it possible the visuals in these demos are manufacturer 'tricks' that aren't attainable even on streamed UHD content?
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post #22 of 23 Old 07-02-2014, 02:53 PM
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Anyone know where to find the "Munsell paper" mentioned by Joe Kane? Supposedly, it explains the difficulties of implementing rec. 2020. Joe specifically mentioned bandwidth as an issue, but obviously didn't have time to go into more detail. I've tried googling it, but haven't found anything that describes issues with rec. 2020. Just curious since I've seen statements from tech companies that claim they have made breakthrus in quantom dot technology that would allow us to manufacture displays that can reproduce up to 97% of rec. 2020, which is a huge step beyond where we were two years ago.

Here is a link to one such statement from a company called Nanosys Inc...
http://www.nanosysinc.com/dot-color/...ally-practical

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post #23 of 23 Old 07-02-2014, 04:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone know where to find the "Munsell paper" mentioned by Joe Kane? Supposedly, it explains the difficulties of implementing rec. 2020. Joe specifically mentioned bandwidth as an issue, but obviously didn't have time to go into more detail. I've tried googling it, but haven't found anything that describes issues with rec. 2020. Just curious since I've seen statements from tech companies that claim they have made breakthrus in quantom dot technology that would allow us to manufacture displays that can reproduce up to 97% of rec. 2020, which is a huge step beyond where we were two years ago.

Here is a link to one such statement from a company called Nanosys Inc...
http://www.nanosysinc.com/dot-color/...ally-practical
The Munsell paper referenced by Joe in his presentation is available for $20 here. You can also get a free PDF of the PowerPoint slides that accompanied the presentation of that paper here, but those slides were meant to accompany a live talk, so they might not make much sense by themselves. The paper has much more detailed information, though it is quite technical and dense.

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