Samsung Pulls Plug on Plasma Production - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 291 Old 07-01-2014, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Yeah, now that I'm looking around, I'm seeing a few new PN64F8500s out there for $2,200-$2,300. I'm not sure I have the energy to go through yet another exchange, the one I got calibrated perfectly. I'm going to check the hours on the panel and make a decision.
What's the difference between the PN and UN models? Thanks.
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post #92 of 291 Old 07-01-2014, 04:30 PM
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post #93 of 291 Old 07-01-2014, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post
Agreed. 600W is just ridiculous. I thought that they had their power consumption under control, but apparently not. Plus, in the summer, 600W means another 150W to A/C that heat out.
Yeah, if you have an A/C unit with an EER of 4.
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post #94 of 291 Old 07-01-2014, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
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What's the difference between the PN and UN models? Thanks.
PN denotes plasma, UN denotes LED-lit LCD

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post #95 of 291 Old 07-01-2014, 05:29 PM
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I'm willing to bet that half these people complaining about plasma's power consumption are probably driving new SUVs with no one in the backseat 90 percent of the time. Or worse: driving hybrids with batteries made of rare earth metals strip mined from the earth and shipped around the globe for processing and manufacture.

I love fake greenies.
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post #96 of 291 Old 07-01-2014, 05:52 PM
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Wow didn't expect Sammie to pull the plug on PDP's quite this soon glad I got the 60F5300
but now maybe I better go take a look at a f8500 while they still have some just to be sure guess I 'll have to start tapping one of retirement funds that are coming into maturity in a couple of months might not be any left by then though.

OTOH I was thinking more along the lines of ~55" OLED a little later when the prices come down a bit and wouldn't have to rush into it. .. ofc I could always have my crew jack a B B truck and hope something good was in there , my luck it would be full of broken screen salvage scrappers or it would be a load of Dynex LCD's almost as bad .................. better wait ............at least till the first check comes in !☺☺

Maybe someone should hoard a few f8500 's or ..... or a hundred could be a money maker down the road till they get OLED a little more sorted out with some straight screens and lower prices .

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post #97 of 291 Old 07-01-2014, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post
Agreed. 600W is just ridiculous. I thought that they had their power consumption under control, but apparently not. Plus, in the summer, 600W means another 150W to A/C that heat out.
How is it ridiculous? Peoples high end gaming PC's use over 1000W with their dual/quad SLi and hex core CPU's.

I remember one of my 26" Toshiba CRT's with built in Dolby Surround that was a space heater, used up to 800W.

Playstation 3's used 380W and nobody whined about it until all the awareness of energy saving and so on… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3_hardware

Now the majority of people are crazily obsessed with power consumption. All because of todays awareness. Nobody cared back then to the crazy extent today.

It's so bad some people are even switching off their broadband/cable routers before bed that use no more than 10 - 18W.
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post #98 of 291 Old 07-01-2014, 05:57 PM
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Haven't checked in with the plasma crowd in awhile. This thread feels like a wake.

It isn't just the "green" aspect of power consumption, or the extra $$$ on the electric bill. It's the losing battle with evolving energy regulations. California's will soon make larger plasma sales untenable.

Cheer up, you guys. LG is still around making plasmas. Which I find somewhat ironic, seeing as five years ago LG was the favorite whipping boy of the plasmaphile crowd for their "low end" displays. Now they're the only ones keeping the faith -- maybe they've finally earned some love here.

The writing was on the wall for plasmas over ten years ago when Sony, a leader not only in consumer electronics but professional video, bailed on them.

I myself still have an ancient Pioneer plasma (given to me by a guy who bought a 60" Sony.) The power supply looks like it might be giving up for the second time, so I hope I can find (another) replacement on eBay to keep it going.

I think the videophile action these days is in projectors, which have breathed new life into DLP and the "immersive" mancave experience much beloved by plasma people.
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post #99 of 291 Old 07-01-2014, 06:25 PM
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PrimeTime wrote

Cheer up, you guys. LG is still around making plasmas. Which I find somewhat ironic, seeing as five years ago LG was the favorite whipping boy of the plasmaphile crowd for their "low end" displays. Now they're the only ones keeping the faith -- maybe they've finally earned some love here.

The writing was on the wall for plasmas over ten years ago when Sony, a leader not only in consumer electronics but professional video, bailed on them.


Re Tubetwister
Ironically the writing is on the wall now for the newly created Sony TV owned subsidiary and much if not all of their consumer electronics with the exception of the PS XX business but even keeping that is not guaranteed !

Sony electronics has been hemorrhaging large amounts of cash for well over a decade .
There is a legitimate business case for the parent company selling off the electronics business building in the investment community and in the Sony boardroom as it stands now the board of directors has not ruled that out in the not to distant future if things don't turn around in a hurry .

Sonys making plenty of cash from their larger and more profitable Music,Entertainment,Film , Insurance and Financial services but they will only prop up the electronics business as they have been doing for well over a decade for a short while .
.
Besides selling off the consumer electronics business and the Sony TV owned subsidiary will provide some quick cash for
Sonys new ventures into the medical equipment and hospital patient information management business !Big money in that business and going into that business especially with mandated health care. Sony wants some of that business that's what Sony's long term strategic growth planning is all about now .

Not a Sony hater just bought a new TV from them a few mo. ago nice set so were the other two I owned and the Sony ES audio equipment I own
and the PS 3 and the PS2 and PS1 one before that .

Hopefully if they do sell out it will be to Hon Hai Precision Foxconn they have $$'s the track record wherewithal supply chain and proven quality of manufacturing to reasonably sustain the business in fact they make a lot of Sonys TV's
the PS3 /4 ,iPhones ,iPads .digital PDP 's ,HP computers and tons of other stuff right now .


I can see the business case here plain as day thats what I did for a living for over 35yrs business cases .

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post #100 of 291 Old 07-01-2014, 06:27 PM
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Didn't I predict this like a week ago? I guess when I make enough predictions, I'm right once in a while. It's about time they killed off this obsolete old technology and focused on 4K. Right now is a bad time to buy a TV anyways, unless you have the big ca$h to drop on a 4K TV.
Is that tongue in cheek or are you serious? I bought a Sony X900A last year and a ZT60 and in several ways I prefer the ZT60. The 4K content on the Sony looks amazing, but is limited to what is available through the media server. For normal viewing its hard to beat the PQ of the ZT60.
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post #101 of 291 Old 07-01-2014, 06:30 PM
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I'm willing to bet that half these people complaining about plasma's power consumption are probably driving new SUVs with no one in the backseat 90 percent of the time. Or worse: driving hybrids with batteries made of rare earth metals strip mined from the earth and shipped around the globe for processing and manufacture.

I love fake greenies.
Ah, and you can see their cloud of smug from a mile away.
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post #102 of 291 Old 07-01-2014, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Yeah, now that I'm looking around, I'm seeing a few new PN64F8500s out there for $2,200-$2,300. I'm not sure I have the energy to go through yet another exchange, the one I got calibrated perfectly. I'm going to check the hours on the panel and make a decision.
You can always try to get a panel exchange through Samsung if you notice any defects from being an open-box model. Even if you do not notice an issue it may be worth the trouble to get a panel exchange (it is fairly simple been through a few) and then you will essentially have a new set anyways. Although I would shy away from telling them it was an open-box, and lead them to believe it was NEW.

THE ALL MIGHTY MACACASIAH HAS SPOKEN!
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post #103 of 291 Old 07-01-2014, 06:39 PM
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...California's will soon make larger plasma sales untenable.
... or everybody will stop producing them. Whichever comes first.
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THE ALL MIGHTY MACACASIAH HAS SPOKEN!
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post #104 of 291 Old 07-01-2014, 06:45 PM
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Hey now...not every environment/circumstance lends itself to a full home theater audio setup. That does not mean one can not appreciate an accurate picture.
All in fun Actually at the Seattle GTG at Kris Deering's he had a Wall mounted TV and a soundbar and smaller sub downstairs. Certainly a nice non theater setup

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post #105 of 291 Old 07-01-2014, 07:07 PM
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funny, I just jumped on CL and locally this guy is available.

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post #106 of 291 Old 07-01-2014, 07:13 PM
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Yep. ST60 rules! Even the best LCD ever made which is the Sharp elite bleaks in comparison with ST60 despite ST60 having inferior blacks. What I've leant from buying a 60in ST60 for 2 grand in January of this year was that blacks don't mean nothin' if it can't bring up that barely discernible shadow detail that puts all those countless low luminance scenes in the absolutely different light, if colors don't look vibrant, if moving an inch causes painfully noticeable contrast drops and unbelievably annoying wash-out, if motion-blur ,sometimes, gets real ugly and awfully off-putting, if pinpoint-sized stars against the utter darkness of cosmos have an inch wide halos around them, if the TV can't render perfect flesh tones and overly saturated neon street signs in one frame, if green grass in the pitch black night looks as if it is in the broad daylight, if the TV fails to deliver that subtle cinematic grain that is always in motion and instead gives you a veil that hangs over the image all the time thus marring that cinema-like experience plasma offers and so on and so forth.


By the way, the HDtest show-out voted VT60 the best TV in 2014. I bet you a thousand that if they had Kuro 9.5 it would ,without fail, be voted the best PQ TV!
The ST60 is a better TV than the Sharp Elite LED?
I am not sure I agree with that and I own an ST60...I bought an open box about 45 days ago for 75% off retail
I nearly bought a Sharp Elite a few months ago...and there are things that it does...brilliant whites/brightness that the ST60 simply cannot replicate
The shadow detail ...as I recall was very good
The downfall was there was an slight brightness change with off angle viewing
I agree with you that minor differences in black levels dont tell the whole story

Hence the reason that the Samsung F8500 was the all around favorite at the Value Electronics shootout
Whatever format though....the company has to make money selling the model or you have a "one and done" like the Sharp Elite or other companies that have struggled and had to fold models or divisions

I own the Samsung F8500 and I will tell you that the brightness gives sporting events, like hockey or snow sport events for example, an incredible level of performance
That and being able to enjoy the Tv performance with any light in the room far outweighs any small amount of black level performance


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post #107 of 291 Old 07-01-2014, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
PrimeTime wrote

Cheer up, you guys. LG is still around making plasmas. Which I find somewhat ironic, seeing as five years ago LG was the favorite whipping boy of the plasmaphile crowd for their "low end" displays. Now they're the only ones keeping the faith -- maybe they've finally earned some love here.

The writing was on the wall for plasmas over ten years ago when Sony, a leader not only in consumer electronics but professional video, bailed on them.


Re Tubetwister
Ironically the writing is on the wall now for the newly created Sony TV owned subsidiary and much if not all of their consumer electronics with the exception of the PS XX business but even keeping that is not guaranteed !

Sony electronics has been hemorrhaging large amounts of cash for well over a decade .
There is a legitimate business case for the parent company selling off the electronics business building in the investment community and in the Sony boardroom as it stands now the board of directors has not ruled that out in the not to distant future if things don't turn around in a hurry .

Sonys making plenty of cash from their larger and more profitable Music,Entertainment,Film , Insurance and Financial services but they will only prop up the electronics business as they have been doing for well over a decade for a short while .
.
Besides selling off the consumer electronics business and the Sony TV owned subsidiary will provide some quick cash for
Sonys new ventures into the medical equipment and hospital patient information management business !Big money in that business and going into that business especially with mandated health care. Sony wants some of that business that's what Sony's long term strategic growth planning is all about now .

Not a Sony hater just bought a new TV from them a few mo. ago nice set so were the other two I owned and the Sony ES audio equipment I own
and the PS 3 and the PS2 and PS1 one before that .

Hopefully if they do sell out it will be to Hon Hai Precision Foxconn they have $$'s the track record wherewithal supply chain and proven quality of manufacturing to reasonably sustain the business in fact they make a lot of Sonys TV's
the PS3 /4 ,iPhones ,iPads .digital PDP 's ,HP computers and tons of other stuff right now .


I can see the business case here plain as day thats what I did for a living for over 35yrs business cases .
Much of what you say is true

Its all about the profit dollars....as people on here seem of to want to recognize

LG has always made money...thats why they can continue

Panasonic didnt..Pioneer didnt
Pioneer seems to be downsizing their home audio as well ...to concentrate on car audio that they actually make money
You are accurate in that Sony( and Sharp) have been losing money on their Tv business

Hence the reason probably that Sony's lineup is a fraction of what it once was
They made some good TV's with their FALD..HX929 and HX950...but the market liked and edge lit well enough to buy one of those for a fraction of the FALD units cost

Samsung who invented edge lit and still "owns" the concept was probably counting their money for a few years

Even now it seems they have tightened their belts as others like Vizio etc have come in with models that offer an incredible price/performance ratio

Warren
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post #108 of 291 Old 07-01-2014, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by PrimeTime View Post
The writing was on the wall for plasmas over ten years ago when Sony, a leader not only in consumer electronics but professional video, bailed on them.
But Sony never had their own fabs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeTime
I think the videophile action these days is in projectors, which have breathed new life into DLP and the "immersive" mancave experience much beloved by plasma people.
I have to admit front-projection DLP is now appealing.
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post #109 of 291 Old 07-01-2014, 07:39 PM
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If the powers that be at LG had any brains they'd abandon any thought of doing away with their plasma line considering they've essentially got a monopoly on the tech at this point. Someone's got to carry the torch and if it turns out to be LG then so be it. Me personally, this essentially ensures that my next HT display will be a projector. Good thing I bought a Panny plaz last spring.

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post #110 of 291 Old 07-01-2014, 08:05 PM
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Time to reinvent

Plasma fanboy here. Glad to hear the usual Japanese suspects are in a race to the bottom...they don't get it, brilliant engineering with horrible business sense. Time for Apple to step in and reinvent the TV. Consumers have voted, they are willing to pay more than $99 for a tablet with a "retina" display. Bring on the Kuro killer, mine won't last forever.
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post #111 of 291 Old 07-01-2014, 08:11 PM
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If the powers that be at LG had any brains they'd abandon any thought of doing away with their plasma line considering they've essentially got a monopoly on the tech at this point. Someone's got to carry the torch and if it turns out to be LG then so be it. Me personally, this essentially ensures that my next HT display will be a projector. Good thing I bought a Panny plaz last spring.
For the people who want a plasma with LCD black levels. If LG made a high performance plasma it would be another thing.
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post #112 of 291 Old 07-01-2014, 08:12 PM
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If the powers that be at LG had any brains they'd abandon any thought of doing away with their plasma line considering they've essentially got a monopoly on the tech at this point. Someone's got to carry the torch and if it turns out to be LG then so be it.


The "problem" with LG is that they've been making marginal plasmas for the last several years. Making no significant effort to advance quality at all, unlike Pioneer, Panasonic & Samsung, each to varying degrees.

I put "problem" in quotation marks because it's been a lot less of a problem for them apparently, given their pending 'last plasma standing' status. Looks like they've met the LCD market head-on with a similar race-to-the-bottom (of quality) approach to profitability.

Mourning the disappearing usage of the -ly suffix. Words being cut-off before they've had a chance to fully form, left incomplete, with their shoelaces untied and their zippers undone. If I quote your post (or post in your thread) without comment, please check your zipper.
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post #113 of 291 Old 07-01-2014, 08:33 PM
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Plasma fanboy here. Glad to hear the usual Japanese suspects are in a race to the bottom...they don't get it, brilliant engineering with horrible business sense. Time for Apple to step in and reinvent the TV. Consumers have voted, they are willing to pay more than $99 for a tablet with a "retina" display. Bring on the Kuro killer, mine won't last forever.
APPLE TV
It will be a mid range middling Samsung LCD with beats music speakers in it packaged with 2 pairs of Beats Solo headphones 7" iPad remote with built in ATV ,Safari web Browser, Siri and an iTunes acct. and a Kim Kardashian sex video from iTunes and cost three times as much as the already ridiculously overpriced Bose TV and only come in one size !

Retina TV is coming soon .................it's called 4K OLED and LG or Panasonic will probably be first to market with it! ☺☺

When did Apple ever invent anything ? they had portable digital music players long before iPod and PC tablets long before the iPad oh and cell phones many years before the iPhone .

I hate to tell you Geopolitics and unfavorable currency exchange rates had as much to do with the decline of the Japanese tech Giants as anything else ....................business 101 ☺☺

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post #114 of 291 Old 07-01-2014, 08:47 PM
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Its sad though i can't say i don't understand. MOst people don't care about image quality. They made due with SD for a long time and the jump in resolution is enough for many people. Just like people eat schlock movies up at the box office while quality stories have a hard time.


Its mostly about price for most people, and i can't say i'm much different. I bought my projector because of the price point. It doesn't offer the best picture quality but its good enough.
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post #115 of 291 Old 07-01-2014, 08:56 PM
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This stinks, plasma is awesome.
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post #116 of 291 Old 07-01-2014, 08:56 PM
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I really think there is a bigger story going on here. One that us diehards are failing to grasp and accept. It looks to me like there is an unannounced consensus between HDTV/Display producers that has been reached. The consensus is that they will all abandon the esoteric high end market. They have packed so much generic quality into the middle and low end markets, that they see no reason for a "High End" to exist. This actually started years ago IMO. Companies like Mitsubishi, Pioneer Kuro and others bailed early on large screen, CRT centric technologies. Retailers abandoned the high end after companies like "Best Buy & Circuit City" had run all of the boutiques out of business. Now it's plasma's turn to join the march to extinction with the dinosaurs. And it looks like all of the OLED eggs Plasma birthed runs the risk of never really being hatched.

Maybe those companies like Samsung are telling us more about ourselves than what many of us want to recognize. And that is pursuit of an acceptable "Best" for all seasons Display tech has already been achieved. And the pursuit of a "Better" just doesn't matter to enough of us anymore. Especially if "Big Screen Experiences" trend to cheaper micro displays in the future with devices like Oculus Rift and Sony Morpheus. If those OLED eggs are going to find a permanent home. It is there and in the mobile world IMO. And who knows? That segment may become the "High End" for the youth of tomorrow.

R.I.P plasma. Your post CRT reign was way too short for us people of today.
What I have been predicting all along. This home theater hobby is dead. Welcome to mediocre sets and streaming.
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post #117 of 291 Old 07-01-2014, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
Much of what you say is true

Its all about the profit dollars....as people on here seem of to want to recognize

LG has always made money...thats why they can continue

Panasonic didnt..Pioneer didnt
Pioneer seems to be downsizing their home audio as well ...to concentrate on car audio that they actually make money
You are accurate in that Sony( and Sharp) have been losing money on their Tv business

Hence the reason probably that Sony's lineup is a fraction of what it once was
They made some good TV's with their FALD..HX929 and HX950...but the market liked and edge lit well enough to buy one of those for a fraction of the FALD units cost

Samsung who invented edge lit and still "owns" the concept was probably counting their money for a few years

Even now it seems they have tightened their belts as others like Vizio etc have come in with models that offer an incredible price/performance ratio

Warren
re /tubetwister
Fair enough you nailed it Sony made good tv's no lie even most of the new ones are decent with the exception of a couple of mid range EU models with LGD panels . Sharp Panasonic and Pioneer made some good stuff will interesting to see what Panasonic can do with LCD's and some LGD OLED panels .

Too bad about Pioneer home audio div shrinking
I have 3 vintage 70's Pioneers all working and serviced an SX980,SX 1050,and SX 3900 .
SX 1050 is the pick of the liter sound wise .

I think the new world order is Samsung and LG for now anyway

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post #118 of 291 Old 07-01-2014, 09:11 PM
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Forgive me for the ignorance but...Will these new LED/LCD UHD TV's have black issues in a completely dark room? Or will the black bars in the 2:35 aspect ratio have issues? How will they compare to my Panasonic plasma 50ST50? Again please look past the "nube" type questions. The video side is something I haven't done research in

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post #119 of 291 Old 07-01-2014, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by nrc2112 View Post
What I have been predicting all along. This home theater hobby is dead. Welcome to mediocre sets and streaming.
not sure I would agree with that 100%

if you mean "hobby" for the casual enthusiast....you could be right

But I think there is a small market for high end displays and clearly there is a market for high end non Asian audio

Neither of which could prosper with an internet or big box store environment
High end audio already observes thus rule
The Asians operate on high volume, high efficiency models that have to be driven through internet and big box retailing

There is a market that shops at local high end A/V stores in just about every city
Products that support that market will be around...while the Asians are blowing their brains out lowering prices every year and trying to coming up with the next big thing each year to keep you in the market


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post #120 of 291 Old 07-01-2014, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post


Say it ain't so! The Curse of the Kuro strikes yet again. Samsung plans to end plasma panel production by November 30, 2014, marking the end of an era.

------

According to Reuters UK, Samsung SDI Corp. is exiting the plasma business. It's a very short article that lists November 30th as the target date for the shutdown. In the Reuters piece, a statement from Samsung blames the decision on a decline in demand for plasma displays. Last year, Samsung's own UNxxF8500 plasma line was often cited as one of the best-performing TVs ever made, whereas the curved screen LED-edgelit LCD UHDTVs taking its place are an unknown quantity.

Read the original article here: Samsung SDI says to end plasma panel display production - Reuters UK

It's only been a few days since I went to a local Best Buy and saw Samsung's new curved-screen TVs going up on a wall. Over to the side, I saw a 64-inch Samsung UN64F8500 plasma on open-box clearance. I bought it immediately because just a few days earlier at CE Week in NYC, a Samsung exec told me that the F8500 was going to start to become "hard to find." Since I had already missed out on buying a Panasonic plasma in 2013, I did not want to take any chances—the enduring fame of Pioneer's Kuro plasma is a lesson in how each successive year does not necessarily bring an even-better performing television to market.


When I saw this display go up at a local Best Buy last week, I knew it was the beginning of the end for Samsung plasma.

It's entirely possible that Samsung's decision to end plasma panel production will truly spell the end for the original flat-screen TV technology. LG is the last major TV manufacturer that has not announced an end to plasma production; however, given the current industry trends it's likely that day is not far away. The irony is plasma image quality kept getting better and better but each time a TV maker set a new performance benchmark, it turned out to be the kiss of death for the product line. It happened to Pioneer, Panasonic, and now Samsung. At this point, I'm just glad I found a reference plasma when I did.

I sincerely hope that FALD LCDs and OLED displays can fill plasma's shoes. The new generation of TVs will be more energy efficient, larger, and boast higher resolutions than what plasma offered. Unfortunately, it might take a few years before another display technology matures to the point where it offers the same price/performance ratio achieved by reference plasma HDTVs. Hopefully OLED will become more affordable in the near future; for now, it's a sad day for videophiles who appreciate what plasma has to offer in terms of picture quality.

Here's a recent article I wrote about how I wound up buying a plasma this year, despite all the new LED-lit LCDs on the market: Why I Bought a Plasma HDTV in 2014

Check out this discussion in the Plasma Flat Panel Displays forum: Samsung makes it official

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Why would the 8500 start to become hard to find if the true date of end of manufacturing is November 30? That implies one of three: true date is prior to November 30 or Samsung plans to make fewer sets per month , or marketing hype. Otherwise, should be plenty to satisfy demand thru at least end of September/October. Not at all hard to find now. All Best Buys have them available. And would think could order them directly from Samsung into November.

Last edited by igreg; 07-01-2014 at 10:55 PM.
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