Samsung Pulls Plug on Plasma Production - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 291 Old 07-02-2014, 06:55 AM
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Tom Riddle wrote,
I just couldn't get my LED/LCD to look right, no matter what I did. By this point I understood that torch mode killed the picture and had the image properly calibrated. I found myself in the market again for a new TV (I was buying one every year at this point) and I took the advice of many on this forum and purchased a Panasonic 65VT30. I've loved it since the day it came home and I finally found what I was looking for. It's not without its faults, but I can easily overlook them as I get that picture window effect I wanted and it has great blacks. I missed the boat on getting the ZT60 and I like the 8500, but not sure if I want to upgrade. I think I will stick it out with my trusty VT30 and hope that us videophiles aren't completely forgotten during this time of marketing hype geared towards unnecessary resolution.

Re\ tubetwister.

Took me a good while and a lot reading here at AVS to get out of the torch mode thing with my LCD's and after a lot of practice ,trial and error to learn enough to do a passable DIY calibration (what a difference truly amazing ) I bought my first plasma in late 2012 sold it and got a bigger one in 2013 . Plasma is one of those things if you know you know if you don't you don't and you missed the boat simple as that !

I have 6 LCD sets also one is in the garage (old Dynex ) ,the newest being a fairly decent mid priced Sony but The Sammie plasma is still my "real tv " that makes it own light like TV's did in the old days rather than just filtering a back light !

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post #152 of 291 Old 07-02-2014, 07:04 AM
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You mean, I think, a phone number, not mine.
re tubetwister,

Mark, Here is some of the text from the ad it looks to be the same phone number as in your sig
so if someone is posting your number there you might want to talk to the audiogon folks about that
and see whats up .

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Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
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post #153 of 291 Old 07-02-2014, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post


It's a little different in those two cases, since Betamax was technically superior and lost, whereas Blu-ray was technically superior and won.

"Perceived" equals..... by the general public...
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post #154 of 291 Old 07-02-2014, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
At this point, anyone who's interested in one had better act fast. If you look at what happened to Panasonic's VT60 and ZT60, after that company ceased production the price went up! I'm curious whether the same thing will happen with the F8500.
Doubtful Samsung resale value is not the same as Panasonic with any plasma. The plasma they make is not even as respected among videophiles. Granted the 8500 is a great set but does not equal in any way shape or form the black levels the VT60 or ZT60 produce. Still a great set and a great buy.

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post #155 of 291 Old 07-02-2014, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by NCCaniac View Post
Sigh. Looks like plasma is becoming the Betamax / HD-DVD of the TV world. Glad I got a Panasonic P60ST60 last fall. Hope it lasts a long time.
To call it the Betamax/HD DVD of the TV world is just silly. Betamax didn't even last a few years let alone make any sort of sales dent, and HD DVD was for the most part a failure right out the gate, Toshiba ended that format in less than 3 years, which is a complete joke. The same can not be said about plasma technology. It has been around for an extremely long time and has had very good sales years in the past. The mass market consumer is just ignorant and easily fooled by gimmicks which is why the superior technology will now have to cease production after about 20 years. The same longevity could not be said about Betamax and definitely not the inferior HD DVD.
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post #156 of 291 Old 07-02-2014, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Semp1 View Post
Doubtful Samsung resale value is not the same as Panasonic with any plasma. The plasma they make is not even as respected among videophiles. Granted the 8500 is a great set but does not equal in any way shape or form the black levels the VT60 or ZT60 produce. Still a great set and a great buy.
Last year when I saw those the VT60, ZT60, F8500, and a Kuro together at the Value Electronics shootout, the differences in black levels appeared relative trivial, and only really mattered when looking at a totally black screen in a totally dark room. OLED goes straight to the next level, but the top plasmas were all some shade of super-deep gray (i.e. black), with small—but yes, discernible—differences between them... while the F8500 was not quite up to the ZT60/Kuro level, it came really close. The VT60/ZT60 and F8500 performed remarkably similarly.
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post #157 of 291 Old 07-02-2014, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by billmich View Post
Plasma didn't lose a "format war" with an equal. it had a product lifespan and is being replaced by newer (albeit not necessarily better) technology.
OLED is a lot better than plasma. In fact it's the best display tech that's ever existed.
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post #158 of 291 Old 07-02-2014, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post
Didn't I predict this like a week ago? I guess when I make enough predictions, I'm right once in a while. It's about time they killed off this obsolete old technology and focused on 4K. Right now is a bad time to buy a TV anyways, unless you have the big ca$h to drop on a 4K TV.



It's a little different in those two cases, since Betamax was technically superior and lost, whereas Blu-ray was technically superior and won.



It's called a free market and commoditization. Once there's no differentiation, things become commoditized. PCs did at one point, with the exception of Macs and a few laptops with specific feature sets and designs, TVs have become commoditized, and eventually smartphones will be as well (at least on the Android side).



HOLY ****. That's insane.



Agreed. 600W is just ridiculous. I thought that they had their power consumption under control, but apparently not. Plus, in the summer, 600W means another 150W to A/C that heat out.
I also thought so coming from my 55" LCD to 64" F8500, but it didn't add much to my electric bill. I hooked up a watt meter and the F8500 uses 300 watts average and goes up to 600 on full white screens. Costs less than $2 a month to run this plasma. I would focus my attention on other monthly costs. /shrug
It does raise the room temp a degree or so during the hot summer, but it is a good heater during the cold months. It all evens out

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post #159 of 291 Old 07-02-2014, 09:47 AM
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It should be pointed out that plasmas are handicapped versus LCDs when it comes to physically larger displays. Recent press articles indicate that the market for 60-inch-plus displays is the only segment that has shown growth lately. You can get 65, 70 or larger LCDs set up in your home without (a) breaking the bank and (b) your back toting them up the stairs or from room to room. Can you even find a 65+-inch plasma anymore?
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post #160 of 291 Old 07-02-2014, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billmich View Post
Plasma didn't lose a "format war" with an equal. it had a product lifespan and is being replaced by newer (albeit not necessarily better) technology.

Think of the decline of vinyl and cassette/8 track

Beta and HD DVD lost out to a perceived "equal".
I guess it depends on opinion. Many thought that Beta and HD DVD had advantages over the competing formats, but the other formats won out due to many factors, not just on technical merit.

My point was that the new technologies coming in display screens have not yet proven, as you said, to be "necessarily better" than plasma, at least not at a similar price point. Technology changes, of course, but it is a shame when it changes and the only comparable options are significantly more expensive. Good for the manufacturers, I guess, but not so good for consumers.
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post #161 of 291 Old 07-02-2014, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Semp1 View Post
To call it the Betamax/HD DVD of the TV world is just silly. Betamax didn't even last a few years let alone make any sort of sales dent, and HD DVD was for the most part a failure right out the gate, Toshiba ended that format in less than 3 years, which is a complete joke. The same can not be said about plasma technology. It has been around for an extremely long time and has had very good sales years in the past. The mass market consumer is just ignorant and easily fooled by gimmicks which is why the superior technology will now have to cease production after about 20 years. The same longevity could not be said about Betamax and definitely not the inferior HD DVD.
The last Beta was produce 2002, Sony aren't the type of folks let go of a grudge!

They've might of well learned a few important lessons too, they practically paid off a few major studios to drop HDDVD.
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post #162 of 291 Old 07-02-2014, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Riddle View Post
It's extremely sad to see the end of Plasma technology come, but I have to commend Samsung for hanging in as long as they have. I bought my first HDTV in 2003 and waded through years of playing with settings to find the perfect image. I fell into the store display trap and was always on the hunt for the display that could match the one set to torch mode with egregious amounts of sharpening and the horrid soap opera effect, only to find when I got it home, it just didn't look right. I had enough in 2011 when I just couldn't get my LED/LCD to look right, no matter what I did. By this point I understood that torch mode killed the picture and had the image properly calibrated. I found myself in the market again for a new TV (I was buying one every year at this point) and I took the advice of many on this forum and purchased a Panasonic 65VT30. I've loved it since the day it came home and I finally found what I was looking for. It's not without its faults, but I can easily overlook them as I get that picture window effect I wanted and it has great blacks. I missed the boat on getting the ZT60 and I like the 8500, but not sure if I want to upgrade. I think I will stick it out with my trusty VT30 and hope that us videophiles aren't completely forgotten during this time of marketting hype geared towards unnescessry resolution.
I have Vt-30 too and I'm not getting rid of it. and yes you should keep yours.
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post #163 of 291 Old 07-02-2014, 12:57 PM
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This is the death of picture quality. CRTs are gone. Good plasmas are going away. For LCDs, the Sharp Elite could not stay in production and FALD mysteriously disappeared (is it just on break?), and instead we get curved edgelit nonsense.

OLED lost to a discontinued plasma in the UK shootout. Granted OLED is just getting started, but every article about the OLED industry seems to be bad news: OLED R&D partnerships breaking up, no new models this year from one major brand, and a factory planned for OLED being used to make mobile screens instead. Will OLED even get a chance to mature before it dies?

I am saddened that plasma is gone, but in a small way relieved because (A) I have mine, and (B) the type of people buying for PQ may pay extra and buy OLED now that it doesn't have to compete with relatively inexpensive plasma.
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post #164 of 291 Old 07-02-2014, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
At this point, anyone who's interested in one had better act fast. If you look at what happened to Panasonic's VT60 and ZT60, after that company ceased production the price went up! I'm curious whether the same thing will happen with the F8500.
I'd suggest keeping an eye on BestBuy. They had killer deals on Panasonic VT/ZT models. It's a sad, sad day. I absolutely love my ZT60 and haven't second-guessed that BestBuy super-deal purchase one bit.

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post #165 of 291 Old 07-02-2014, 01:36 PM
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I'm disappointed plasma is dying off, but I am really hoping OLED replaces it.
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post #166 of 291 Old 07-02-2014, 03:29 PM
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Unhappy This timing is the worst.

This is sad indeed. I was quietly holding out hope for one at least one more year of production on plasma. I'm underwhelmed by LG's offering, and this latest development doesn't give me much hope that they are long for plasma either. Before I began working on building out a dedicated home theatre, the actual display was one of my smallest worries. Now it is quickly becoming one of my largest concerns. Without plasma, and with OLED still a few years away (if it comes at all) I am left with LCD screens or front projection that starts in the $14k price range. My budget doesn't have enough wiggle-room for a $15k projector, that's three times what I had budgeted for a display. Even using up 100% of my discretionary wiggle-room I'm still only halfway to enough for a projector.

So far I have been underwhelmed by 4K LCDs. Yes the PQ is better from close enough, is more detailed, but my standard viewing distance is on the cusp of where it is noticeable. And even so, I have been less impressed with the blacks and contrast when compared to my current plasma.

I'm obviously not going to stop building out a theatre room just because plasma has died. But it really is disappointing to think that I'm going through all the pain and care of creating an ideal environment just to settle for something that doesn't quite match up against what I already have.
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post #167 of 291 Old 07-02-2014, 03:42 PM
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Hoping OLED replaces Plasma...

Published: June 16, 2014, http://www.digitalversus.com/tv-tele...15-n34724.html
"Sammy hasn't given up on OLED—far from it—but it's highly unlikely that we'll see a TV coming out in the course of the next several months. Instead the firm will be focusing on high-end LCD TVs, one of the few profitable sections of the TV market."
"...the company needs to buy more time—about three or four years before we can expect a competitively priced model to hit the market."
"This leaves LG as the lone survivor with its WOLED TVs (55EA970V and 55EA980W). In fact, LG has already moved on to its second generation and is planning to release an Ultra HD series (55", 65" and 77") in the coming months."
"But the monopoly shouldn't last indefinitely. Other hopefuls have already joined the race, such as TCL, which may very well be working on its own large-diagonal Ultra HD OLED models. We also expect to see some from Thomson in 2015, hopefully at a price that will incite others to lower their own..."
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post #168 of 291 Old 07-02-2014, 03:55 PM
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post #169 of 291 Old 07-02-2014, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Semp1 View Post
Doubtful Samsung resale value is not the same as Panasonic with any plasma. The plasma they make is not even as respected among videophiles. Granted the 8500 is a great set but does not equal in any way shape or form the black levels the VT60 or ZT60 produce. Still a great set and a great buy.
not really
Panasonic was known for making plasmas because that is all they really made...and not profitably I might add
Their LCD line was never really even in play...while Samsung could have been said to have "owned" that market

There is a lot more to the Tv viewing story than miniscule differences in black levels
The F8500 is simply a far more useable TV in the real world...hence the reason it was probably the crowd favorite at the Value Electronics shoot out

Resale is questionable. There are far too many 2013 Panasonic TV's in the market that were sold at low prices. While some may throw a price out there and see if someone will pay it
That buyer is far more likely to find a owner who just wants to sell the TV...the models are not scarce so I dont think these prices will gain any traction....especially if OLED prices keep falling
People said the same thing about the Kuro and I have seen prices all over the map....from ridiculously high to fire sale


Warren

Rm 1 Samsung 64F8500 Onkyo 5508 prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A amp Atlantic technology System 350 THX Ultra speakers
Rm 2 LG 47LE8500 Pioneer Denon 4520 Celestion 305 speaker system
Rm 3 Samsung 51E8000 Yamaha A2010 Kef 2005.2 speaker system
Rm 4 Panasonic 50ST50 Onkyo 5009/906 Mirage Omni sat speaker system
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post #170 of 291 Old 07-02-2014, 04:22 PM
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I just swung by local HHGregg and they have sold their last F8500 off their wall and will not be getting anymore. They can still special order the 51", but the 60" and 64" are no longer in their system.

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post #171 of 291 Old 07-02-2014, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aryn Ravenlocke View Post
Without plasma, and with OLED still a few years away (if it comes at all) I am left with LCD screens or front projection that starts in the $14k price range. My budget doesn't have enough wiggle-room for a $15k projector, that's three times what I had budgeted for a display. Even using up 100% of my discretionary wiggle-room I'm still only halfway to enough for a projector.
Not sure where you got the idea that front projection starts at $14K. For example, you can get a nice Optoma HD25-LV projector and a 120" diag. Elite Screens ER120WH1 for a combined price of around $1200. Certainly you can spend a lot more if you want to, but even JVC's flagship RS67 projector sells for significantly less than what you describe as being entry level for front projection.

If you care to research pj & screen options further, Mike Garrett at the AV Science store should be able to fix you up with something nice...
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post #172 of 291 Old 07-02-2014, 05:53 PM
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I just swung by local HHGregg and they have sold their last F8500 off their wall and will not be getting anymore. They can still special order the 51", but the 60" and 64" are no longer in their system.
I would use best buy as the gage for availability. Hhgregg has not really carried many plasmas for years. A few samsungs and that is it.
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post #173 of 291 Old 07-02-2014, 06:08 PM
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Ten Chinese electronics makers were awarded at the 2013 International Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas .


Consumers are taking the china route.

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post #174 of 291 Old 07-02-2014, 06:44 PM
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I would use best buy as the gage for availability. Hhgregg has not really carried many plasmas for years. A few samsungs and that is it.
Mine carried the full Panasonic line up until the end.

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post #175 of 291 Old 07-02-2014, 07:13 PM
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Yeah, if you have an A/C unit with an EER of 4.
That's actually a good point. Window A/C units are all about 10.8 EER, based on the definition, that's 10.8 BTUs out for every BTU of electricity consumer (OK, weird units for electricity, but it can be back-converted to KwH). Not sure where the 1:4 thing came from, but that's definitely wrong. The best modern central A/C system are running somewhere around 15-18 EER (converted from SEER), while the best mini-splits are running over 20. So scratch that. But plasmas are still huge hogs!

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Originally Posted by xvfx View Post
How is it ridiculous? Peoples high end gaming PC's use over 1000W with their dual/quad SLi and hex core CPU's.

I remember one of my 26" Toshiba CRT's with built in Dolby Surround that was a space heater, used up to 800W.

Playstation 3's used 380W and nobody whined about it until all the awareness of energy saving and so on… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3_hardware

Now the majority of people are crazily obsessed with power consumption. All because of todays awareness. Nobody cared back then to the crazy extent today.

It's so bad some people are even switching off their broadband/cable routers before bed that use no more than 10 - 18W.
Ok, switching off the router is nuts. But at the same time, very, very few PCs use anywhere close to that much, and even those only use it during the most intense gaming, and are significantly lower when not running 3D games. I remember when my dual CRTs heated up the whole room several degrees. Luckily, we've moved past that. Just like we've moved past energy hog plasmas.

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Originally Posted by trab37 View Post
Is that tongue in cheek or are you serious? I bought a Sony X900A last year and a ZT60 and in several ways I prefer the ZT60. The 4K content on the Sony looks amazing, but is limited to what is available through the media server. For normal viewing its hard to beat the PQ of the ZT60.
On my predictions about plasma dying, I was kind of joking. I knew it would come eventually, I didn't think it was a week or two away for Sammy!

As for 4K vs. plasma, I'm dead serious. 4K is the way to go.

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I also thought so coming from my 55" LCD to 64" F8500, but it didn't add much to my electric bill. I hooked up a watt meter and the F8500 uses 300 watts average and goes up to 600 on full white screens. Costs less than $2 a month to run this plasma. I would focus my attention on other monthly costs. /shrug
It does raise the room temp a degree or so during the hot summer, but it is a good heater during the cold months. It all evens out
Well, it doesn't all even out, unless you have electric baseboard heat, since anything else is cheaper to run than secondary heat. But that aside, they still use a ton of power, kick off a ton of heat, and whether practically, or just in principle, it's ridiculous when there is a clearly superior technology available that uses a fraction of the power, i.e. 4K LED-LCD.
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post #176 of 291 Old 07-02-2014, 09:00 PM
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Wow! While my main display in my ht room is a LED Sharp Elite 70. I still have my 2009 Pioneer Elite 151 plasma in my bedroom. That's still has jaw dropping image after many hours of viewing. And I regret not picking up a Panasonic ZT. Get them people while these plasma is still around. I've even have offer up to 6 grand for my Pio.
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post #177 of 291 Old 07-02-2014, 09:01 PM
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It should be pointed out that plasmas are handicapped versus LCDs when it comes to physically larger displays. Recent press articles indicate that the market for 60-inch-plus displays is the only segment that has shown growth lately. You can get 65, 70 or larger LCDs set up in your home without (a) breaking the bank and (b) your back toting them up the stairs or from room to room. Can you even find a 65+-inch plasma anymore?
Probably can find one (65 + PDP maybe a commercial panel (for a while how long is anybody's guess) but they exist ofc you would have to break some bread and hire a moving crew .

Thing about a 65+ LCD is you have to play musical panels to get one without issues (check the threads here some are dreadful ) much more so than the smaller sizes so in that respect one could also say larger LCD are handicapped as well no? Not to mention the 64 inch sammie f8500 PDP will put all but maybe one or 2 LCD's and the few OLED out there to bed picture wise .

ofc if you've never owned a decent plasma you would never know and your expectations of picture quality would ordinarily be much less than that of the plasma cognescenti
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post #178 of 291 Old 07-02-2014, 09:06 PM
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Ten Chinese electronics makers were awarded at the 2013 International Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas .


Consumers are taking the china route.
It was probably rigged somebody got paid UR talking China here after all that's how business is done there and just about everywhere else !

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post #179 of 291 Old 07-02-2014, 09:26 PM
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I would use best buy as the gage for availability. Hhgregg has not really carried many plasmas for years. A few samsungs and that is it.
+1
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post #180 of 291 Old 07-02-2014, 09:29 PM
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I just bought the store demo from my Best Buy. Don't count on F8500s being in stores next year. I agree that the price gouging on the ZT60 is a sign of things to come for the F8500. The 64-inch version is already rare. Last week at CE Week in NYC a Samsung higher-up specifically told me the F8500 is starting to become hard to find.

Already rarre?! Every Best Buy can order them.
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