UHD/4K Quandary: To Buy or Not to Buy - Page 17 - AVS Forum
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post #481 of 1679 Old 07-26-2014, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Mrorange303 View Post
Yes westa is in the 4k forums all the time. Gives great info. Corrects me when im wrong with great info. Ken ross. And many more. Some great great minds in those forums.
Oh yes! Almost forgot about Ken!

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post #482 of 1679 Old 07-26-2014, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by bernster2001 View Post
I get my content on Directv. Some HD channels use 720p and others 1080i. How well do these upconvert on 4k sets? It is a deal breaker for me if there is any degradation of quality on the upconvert compared to good 1080p sets. Which brand has best upconvert?
I also get my content on DirecTV, and I have a Samsung HU8550 50" 4k TV. The upconversion is very good -- I would put upconverted 1080i from one of the better DirecTV channels approximately on a par with 1080p from blu-ray, so far as resolution goes. The HU8550 picture is not without problems: black level and off-axis viewing are not as good as those of a plasma. But the resolution and color are good. It's nice and bright.

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post #483 of 1679 Old 07-26-2014, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
That's a good comparison to make, considering that so much content many people watch on a TV isn't even 1080p, it is 720p and 1080i. I'll specifically check that out and include it in my AX800U review, which I'll plan to publish next week.
I live in a pretty populated area but the best my internet and expensive router can handle is 720p for netflix. Now I get that I'm sort of out of the way and my experience isn't representative of everyone but I gotta think there are more in my boat than not (the jolly ship: crap internet).

I would really like more information (and or effort) from the CE companies figuring out how to get 1080p out before we jump the gun with 4k. Incidentally, will bluray be able to do 4k? Are any of te current consoles capable of outputting 4k (simple games or video)? Where do we get content.

Also, Mark, looking forward to your AX800 review NOT for it being 4k but for the focus on color saturation and motion handling that panasonic seems to be spotlighting with this model.
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post #484 of 1679 Old 07-26-2014, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
I also get my content on DirecTV, and I have a Samsung HU8550 50" 4k TV. The upconversion is very good -- I would put upconverted 1080i from one of the better DirecTV channels approximately on a par with 1080p from blu-ray, so far as resolution goes. The HU8550 picture is not without problems: black level and off-axis viewing are not as good as those of a plasma. But the resolution and color are good. It's nice and bright.
That right there is a red flag. 4K TVs can't perform miracles.
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post #485 of 1679 Old 07-26-2014, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
I live in a pretty populated area but the best my internet and expensive router can handle is 720p for netflix. Now I get that I'm sort of out of the way and my experience isn't representative of everyone but I gotta think there are more in my boat than not (the jolly ship: crap internet).

I would really like more information (and or effort) from the CE companies figuring out how to get 1080p out before we jump the gun with 4k. Incidentally, will bluray be able to do 4k? Are any of te current consoles capable of outputting 4k (simple games or video)? Where do we get content.

Also, Mark, looking forward to your AX800 review NOT for it being 4k but for the focus on color saturation and motion handling that panasonic seems to be spotlighting with this model.
If only it did netflix 4k I just didnt get that one.

It even has a decoder but cant handle the codec? I think the ax900 will though.
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post #486 of 1679 Old 07-26-2014, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by bobby2478 View Post
Reminds me of what Cartman tells Kyle on South Park when they are trying to find friends on Chat Roulette but keep finding guys who flash their junk: "If you want to find some quality friends you have to wade through all the dicks first" lol.
Lol! Wise words and some solid advice, indeed.
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post #487 of 1679 Old 07-26-2014, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
I live in a pretty populated area but the best my internet and expensive router can handle is 720p for netflix. Now I get that I'm sort of out of the way and my experience isn't representative of everyone but I gotta think there are more in my boat than not (the jolly ship: crap internet).

I would really like more information (and or effort) from the CE companies figuring out how to get 1080p out before we jump the gun with 4k. Incidentally, will bluray be able to do 4k? Are any of te current consoles capable of outputting 4k (simple games or video)? Where do we get content.

Also, Mark, looking forward to your AX800 review NOT for it being 4k but for the focus on color saturation and motion handling that panasonic seems to be spotlighting with this model.
I can offer you a brief preview, a synopsis of the AX800U as compared to my 2012 Vizio M3D550KD (also calibrated). My 1080p, 2-year-old Vizio M beats the AX800U in terms of motion handling and at least matches it in terms of color rendition. As long as the room isn't dark, black levels are about the same between the AX800U and the Vizio M, but the Vizio has a wider overall viewing angle. Also, the 1080p Vizio has (slightly) better overall screen uniformity. I'll save the comparisons to the F8500 for the review.

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post #488 of 1679 Old 07-26-2014, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
That right there is a red flag. 4K TVs can't perform miracles.
No he is right. My cable channels are bluray esq in picture quality too.

Have you tested the samaung upscale this year because its uber amazing. And handles evrything like a champ.

This worries me aboit what you are looking at actually.

Makes me wonder if you have seen the quality we speak of with the ax800. Not sure it is a top tier set for panasonic. But we talked about that too.

Of course you didnt agree that upscale technology may not be equal. You wanted proof.

I said well reviewers woild be all I could provide. That was thay. Now a 2nd person tells you the same thing. Hmmm.
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post #489 of 1679 Old 07-26-2014, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
That would matter if there was some 10 or 12 bit HDR 2160p content out there to watch, but as it stands HD and UHD both work with the same color space and bit depth.
No, they don't, for two reasons. (1) When a 2k HD image is upconverted to 4k, it is now in a 4k space. For instance, dithering can be used to interpolate smooth color gradients over surfaces. (2) Even with only 8 bit color depth, in a 4k image, a camera can give better colors by using dithering.

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post #490 of 1679 Old 07-26-2014, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I can offer you a brief preview, a synopsis of the AX800U as compared to my 2012 Vizio M3D550KD (also calibrated). My 1080p, 2-year-old Vizio M beats the AX800U in terms of motion handling and at least matches it in terms of color rendition. As long as the room isn't dark, black levels are about the same between the AX800U and the Vizio M, but the Vizio has a wider overall viewing angle. Also, the 1080p Vizio has (slightly) better overall screen uniformity. I'll save the comparisons to the F8500 for the review.
Ooo... Ok, well I'm still looking forward to it. Lol!
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post #491 of 1679 Old 07-26-2014, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
No, they don't, for two reasons. (1) When a 2k HD image is upconverted to 4k, it is now in a 4k space. For instance, dithering can be used to interpolate smooth color gradients over surfaces. (2) Even with only 8 bit color depth, in a 4k image, a camera can give better colors by using dithering.
OK I got ya. You are referring to smoother gradients as better color. I am thinking of better color in terms of expanded gamut and dynamic range. Sure, dithering helps smooth out gradients.

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post #492 of 1679 Old 07-26-2014, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
I just watched Oblivion last night on my VT60. There isn't a 4k set available right now that could make that movie prettier than it looks on my panasonic.
In your opinion.

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post #493 of 1679 Old 07-26-2014, 09:15 AM
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Yes westa is in the 4k forums all the time. Gives great info. Corrects me when im wrong with great info. Ken ross. And many more. Some great great minds in those forums.
Be careful, he was being sarcastic. Nothing new here, that's his way. Nothing wrong using sarcasm, but when it's almost always directed at posters.....
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post #494 of 1679 Old 07-26-2014, 09:17 AM
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Oh yes! Almost forgot about Ken!

It never ends.
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post #495 of 1679 Old 07-26-2014, 09:19 AM
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I also get my content on DirecTV, and I have a Samsung HU8550 50" 4k TV. The upconversion is very good -- I would put upconverted 1080i from one of the better DirecTV channels approximately on a par with 1080p from blu-ray, so far as resolution goes. The HU8550 picture is not without problems: black level and off-axis viewing are not as good as those of a plasma. But the resolution and color are good. It's nice and bright.
Greg, how much worse would you say your black levels are than a plasma like the F8500?

As for upconversion, your comparison is very favorable toward the quality of upconversion.
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post #496 of 1679 Old 07-26-2014, 09:23 AM
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OK I got ya. You are referring to smoother gradients as better color. I am thinking of better color in terms of expanded gamut and dynamic range. Sure, dithering helps smooth out gradients.
Man. Magic. Come on.
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post #497 of 1679 Old 07-26-2014, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by bobby2478 View Post
Reminds me of what Cartman tells Kyle on South Park when they are trying to find friends on Chat Roulette but keep finding guys who flash their junk: "If you want to find some quality friends you have to wade through all the dicks first" lol.
I'm sorry, but this is what poisons a thread since it's obviously aimed at one poster. I'm not surprised at those that enjoyed this...not at all.
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post #498 of 1679 Old 07-26-2014, 09:25 AM
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Be careful, he was being sarcastic. Nothing new here, that's his way. Nothing wrong using sarcasm, but when it's almost always directed at posters.....
Its ok. He is slowly changing his tune. Read his post. Rhey are very heavy at first. But slowly the science is sinking in. Not just to him. This thread.

Still a ways to go but. Keep moving forward. Lets hope they do too.
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post #499 of 1679 Old 07-26-2014, 09:25 AM
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I'm sorry, but this is what poisons a thread since it's obviously aimed at one poster. I'm not surprised at those that enjoyed this...not at all.
It wasn't aimed at one poster.
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post #500 of 1679 Old 07-26-2014, 09:29 AM
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I'm sorry, but this is what poisons a thread since it's obviously aimed at one poster. I'm not surprised at those that enjoyed this...not at all.
They cant stop the train. Its what happens with a lack of evidence.

They started with belittling people. They are not here to educate a buyer. This thread is already gone.

Now I just like to inform those who clearly are not.

Remember these guys were making fun of me being military and them saying thats why I follow samsung and dont own a plasma.

So I get it. But they cant stop the train. More and more people are getting on. They are trying to stop the bleeding.
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post #501 of 1679 Old 07-26-2014, 09:30 AM
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Its ok. He is slowly changing his tune. Read his post. Rhey are very heavy at first. But slowly the science is sinking in. Not just to him. This thread.

Still a ways to go but. Keep moving forward. Lets hope they do too.
I have no problems with people stating opinions, that's what AVS should be about. But when personal attacks are made, either obvious or in lame, subtle ways, I find it unappealing and not particularly funny. If I were the mod, this thread would be cleaned up.

But I admire your strong backbone and standing up for what you see and believe, despite the onslaught of naysayers. In the end, your are correct in what you see, because it IS what YOU see.
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post #502 of 1679 Old 07-26-2014, 09:31 AM
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It wasn't aimed at one poster.
Sorry, was my math wrong?
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post #503 of 1679 Old 07-26-2014, 09:33 AM
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I have no problems with people stating opinions, that's what AVS should be about. But when personal attacks are made, either obvious or in lame, subtle ways, I find it unappealing and not particularly funny. If I were the mod, this thread would be cleaned up.

But I admire your strong backbone and standing up for what you see and believe, despite the onslaught of naysayers. In the end, your are correct in what you see, because it IS what YOU see.
Exactly. Prefrence. What happened to preferences. I miss those things.
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post #504 of 1679 Old 07-26-2014, 09:34 AM
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They cant stop the train. Its what happens with a lack of evidence.

They started with belittling people. They are not here to educate a buyer. This thread is already gone.

Now I just like to inform those who clearly are not.

Remember these guys were making fun of me being military and them saying thats why I follow samsung and dont own a plasma.

So I get it. But they cant stop the train. More and more people are getting on. They are trying to stop the bleeding.
Since nobody else said it, "Thanks for your service!".
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post #505 of 1679 Old 07-26-2014, 09:36 AM
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Since nobody else said it, "Thanks for your service!".
Thanks. Its to protect preferences lol. Crazy this thread is. Yes.
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post #506 of 1679 Old 07-26-2014, 09:38 AM
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Exactly. Prefrence. What happened to preferences. I miss those things.
I respect preference, including a preference for higher resolution over other image quality parameters. If someone said they like watching VHS tapes on a UHDTV with the saturation set to zero and sharpness set to 100% because it was their preference, I'd respect that too.
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post #507 of 1679 Old 07-26-2014, 09:40 AM
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^ OK, that's sarcasm that can make me smile.
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post #508 of 1679 Old 07-26-2014, 09:47 AM
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I respect preference, including a preference for higher resolution over other image quality parameters. If someone said they like watching VHS tapes on a UHDTV with the saturation set to zero and sharpness set to 100% because it was their preference, I'd respect that too.
Well I think we all have that one family member with the giant stereo and dvd collection the size of a wall then a little 23" crt.

We all giggle at them. This is not such a case but I get the idea.
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post #509 of 1679 Old 07-26-2014, 10:15 AM
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Greg, how much worse would you say your black levels are than a plasma like the F8500?

As for upconversion, your comparison is very favorable toward the quality of upconversion.
I haven't seen the F8500. I could compare to the Panasonic st60 that I have in the next room, except even that is difficult, because I keep the brightness control of the HU8550 turned down so that blacks are perfectly black. I have to have my blacks black, even if shadow detail suffers some. And then also, to reclaim as much shadow detail as I can, I have the Gamma setting on the HU8550 turned up to the max. This is not the sort of setup that an ISF sort of person would come up with.

So all I can say about comparative black levels, I guess, is that to make black parts of the picture appear to be really black, special measures are required for the HU8550.

Yes, I think upconversion works really well, but I have to qualify that by noting that I'm looking at a 50" screen, which is pretty small, and it might not show artifacts so readily.

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post #510 of 1679 Old 07-26-2014, 10:18 AM
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i doesn't matter what size your tv has. just sit closer.
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