UHD/4K Quandary: To Buy or Not to Buy - Page 18 - AVS Forum
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post #511 of 1811 Old 07-26-2014, 12:57 PM
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Some interesting articles thay contradict many post here. Lets starys first with this one.

When tested it was found that 4k was a visible improvement over 1080p on a 55" set from a 9ft viewing distance.

This was not 5 or 6 ft like is the common distance here. And I have a 65" so distance on a 55 is no issue. You are not right up on the tv.
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post #512 of 1811 Old 07-26-2014, 01:10 PM
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"1080p sources testing

The majority of my testing was done with mere high-definition resolution sources, and the Samsung was excellent in most regards. Deep black levels thanks to well-implemented local dimming were its main strengths, followed by superb color and very good, if not perfect, processing. I was also impressed by its uniformity, bright-room and 3D performance, albeit less so by its sound"

The sets are not the same as 2013. 2012. 2011. 2010. 2009 etc. 2014 sets are the first real full dive into 4k. Last year was putting feet into the pool.

Next year your swimming in it.

"The Sony still had the best showing in this area overall, the HU9000 stood out among the rest of the LCDs, by maintaining highlights that were almost as bright and realistic as the plasmas. In mixed albeit still mostly dark scenes, like the Room of Requirement (57:40 and 59:36), the bright areas in the furniture and bric-a-brac looked better, with a tad more realism and punch, than on the F8000 and the Sony, approaching the excellence of the plasma. The Vizio, LG and Panasonic lagged behind in this area, as well as in overall black level."

This is David Katz. He like plasmas. This was not easy for him to say.

http://www.cnet.com/products/samsung-un65hu9000/
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post #513 of 1811 Old 07-26-2014, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr.Shankenstein View Post
Samsung offers a similar hard drive solution and download service as Sony. It will set you back $300,but will come with five UHD films and a few nature docs as well. I am not entirely sure about cost of additional content.

Is there a specific forum on AVS where people are discussing the 4K content ? What I mean is... when 3D first hit the scenes, AVS had a specific forum for "3D Content". I haven't seen anything similar for 4K yet. So, I'm not sure where the discussions are taking place about what content is available, lack of content, etc, etc.

I used to go to the 3D Content area, and I could read a few threads here and there and be quickly up to speed about what is available in 3D, and what is good, what is just mediocre, etc, etc. With 4K, I can't seem to find where people are specifically discussing the content. Most of the discussion in this thread is more about whether or not 4K is even worth a damn.

I'm not interested in getting involved in that argument. What I am interested in, is if I did happen to jump on the 4K bandwagon, what the heck could I watch, where can I get that content, how much do I have to pay for it, etc, etc. I think this is even more important with 4K considering there isn't a 4K Blu Ray yet. We don't have any 4K content that we can purchase, and hold in our hands, and know that we can count on that particular content. It's all downloads and streaming. It's buying a particular hard drive thing that goes with a particular TV. Pay 8 bucks for 24 hours, buy the movie for 30 bucks, but you don't have a physical disk. Blah, blah.. blah.

But that's actually the discussion that I'm interested in, because I'm trying to find out if I did actually get a 4K display, what the F can I actually do with the thing. It's all pretty confusing, and I will say that companies like Sony and Samsung and everybody else are doing an absolutely horrible job of getting this information out. I tried google searches for a list of movies that work with Sony's box, and it seems like I'm having to be a detective to actually find an accurate and up to date list. You'd think Sony would be shouting from the hilltops about this stuff. Nobody is going to buy 4K tv's just for the F of it, we need to know what content is available, from who, how much, and what is coming soon. Etc, etc.
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post #514 of 1811 Old 07-26-2014, 01:51 PM
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This thread looks awful with all this non stop arguments ,I'm 100% sure that this is not what Scott wanted.




Have a great day.
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post #515 of 1811 Old 07-26-2014, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post
Is there a specific forum on AVS where people are discussing the 4K content ? What I mean is... when 3D first hit the scenes, AVS had a specific forum for "3D Content". I haven't seen anything similar for 4K yet. So, I'm not sure where the discussions are taking place about what content is available, lack of content, etc, etc.

I used to go to the 3D Content area, and I could read a few threads here and there and be quickly up to speed about what is available in 3D, and what is good, what is just mediocre, etc, etc. With 4K, I can't seem to find where people are specifically discussing the content. Most of the discussion in this thread is more about whether or not 4K is even worth a damn.

I'm not interested in getting involved in that argument. What I am interested in, is if I did happen to jump on the 4K bandwagon, what the heck could I watch, where can I get that content, how much do I have to pay for it, etc, etc. I think this is even more important with 4K considering there isn't a 4K Blu Ray yet. We don't have any 4K content that we can purchase, and hold in our hands, and know that we can count on that particular content. It's all downloads and streaming. It's buying a particular hard drive thing that goes with a particular TV. Pay 8 bucks for 24 hours, buy the movie for 30 bucks, but you don't have a physical disk. Blah, blah.. blah.

But that's actually the discussion that I'm interested in, because I'm trying to find out if I did actually get a 4K display, what the F can I actually do with the thing. It's all pretty confusing, and I will say that companies like Sony and Samsung and everybody else are doing an absolutely horrible job of getting this information out. I tried google searches for a list of movies that work with Sony's box, and it seems like I'm having to be a detective to actually find an accurate and up to date list. You'd think Sony would be shouting from the hilltops about this stuff. Nobody is going to buy 4K tv's just for the F of it, we need to know what content is available, from who, how much, and what is coming soon. Etc, etc.
The best site to get started and the one who clearly has the most up to date info on 4k is this.


http://m.techradar.com/news/television/ultra-hd-everything-you-need-to-know-about-4k-tv-1048954

I would say if you have more questions and are serious its easy to find the set you want to look at or monitor and search for the owners forums.
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post #516 of 1811 Old 07-26-2014, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by bobby2478 View Post
Actually I wasn't attacking or directing that at anyone. Making a general observation that even a simple discussion can turn into a long drawn out discussion that turns into pages upon pages of bickering back and forth. Which makes it hard for anyone to get the answers to questions they may have. The south park quote was to illustrate that a simple answer may me burried in a 20 page thread that is hard to find. That's it, no other intent.
Understood.
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post #517 of 1811 Old 07-26-2014, 03:35 PM
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http://www.avforums.com/review/sony-...v-review.10522


If you don't like the curve. This is another awesome set.
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post #518 of 1811 Old 07-26-2014, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Mrorange303 View Post
The thread is should you buy a uhd or wait. The members argue the benefits but in reality is having more resolution bad?

Knowing all your current collection looks better? 3d actually has a purpose now. I mean they rock.

4K media on a 4K display is very impressive and some members have the ability to create their own content. However, 1080P on a reference 1080P plasma (yes I am a plasma fan, but not at the expense of LCD) display is just as impressive in my opinion. I personally wouldn't buy a 4K to just watch up-scaled 1080P. If I were shopping today I would purchase Samsung's reference plasma display and revisit 4K when there is a standard, content and further improvements. I figure purchasing Sony, Samsung or Panasonic 4K display in 2 to 4 years or better yet OLED would probably equal out financially. I am looking for reference quality and since there is no standard I have no reference. However, for the early adopters I say enjoy and I'll catch up to you later.

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post #519 of 1811 Old 07-26-2014, 09:07 PM
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Sorry bd. this is the guy. I apologize for calling you out man. I lost track of the hating. Really man I'm sorry it was this guy.

But you did say I wrong.
Who or what are you accusing me of hating?
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post #520 of 1811 Old 07-27-2014, 01:38 AM
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I had an arrangement with the Magnolia department manager at BB to try out my 4k footage on the Samsung HU8550 in the 60 inch size. Primarily, I was just interested if it would play from a usb flash drive. I have several 4k cameras, but for the test I used footage I shot at 4096 x 2160 10 bit XAVC at 29.97 frames/sec with the Sony PMW-F55 4k cinema cam and using Sony PL cinema primes for the glass. The footage was shot in S-Log2, edited and cropped to 3840 x 2160 in Sony Vegas Pro for 1:1 pixel perfect mapping, graded in the ACES color space in DaVinci Resolve, mastered to YUV 422 10 bit uncompressed, and finally rendered for final output to h.264 using x264, 8-bit 28 mbps 420 rec.709.

I used a similar workflow with a Sony HD 2/3 inch eng broadcast cam, PMW350 in 1080/29.97p, and finally some 1080/59.94p footage from a Panasonic AG-AC90 semi pro camera.

All the files played beautifully from the usb flash drive, which was a great relief, and tangible progress from 2013, the last time I tried this unsuccessfully.

The usb port is a little inconvenient, located on the rear of the HU8550.

So how did it look? I had no opportunity to adjust the HU8550. I don't know what default setting was used. While bright and vivid, sharp and clear, the colors were slightly oversaturated and the blacks not as good as a plasma. The colors could be tweaked, and from what I read from Gary Merson, the HDTV Guru, the cinema setting by default should be very close to 6500k and 2.2 gamma. So I have no concerns about the potential for accurate color, even though this particular set seemed to be in torch mode.

The QFHD footages from the PMW-F55 were obviously stellar. Depending on the the nature of the footage, how improved compared to a 1080p plasma varied. Wide shots with deep depth of field show benefit from the resolution advantage. Tight shots of an interview setting, you can see resolution benefits there too but not as obvious, a shallow depth of field and flatter tones make the resolution advantage less obvious to the untrained eye, but still noticeable if you look for it.

To me, the big surprise was the excellent quality of the 1080p upscaling. The PMW-350 was outstanding and even the AG-AC90 was convincing, so good that most people I doubt would notice or care of the difference.

To me, the plasma overall is still the equal or better in most respects to the HU8550, with better motion handling, deeper blacks, and better off axis viewing. I would not invest in an inefficient, heat generating plasma however, and the smart tv features of the UHD Samsung are compelling features, but if you already own a well calibrated 1080p plasma, I think the viewing experience remains more satisfying but that is just my opinion.
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post #521 of 1811 Old 07-27-2014, 11:30 AM
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So after reading through 18 pages of schoolyard arguments, I'm hoping against hope that perhaps, in a post or two here and there, this thread can actually live up to it's title and help me out: "UHD/4K Quandary: To Buy or Not to Buy"

My father in law is in the market to buy a new TV in the next 30 days. His space supports 55-60" max. Bigger sets would make it a lot easier to decide, but we play the cards we're dealt.

The room is very bright with lots of windows. The seating position is 12-15' away from the screen. The room is also open on one side to the kitchen, so the screen is often seen from a much farther distance, and an oblique viewing angle. (a good extending wall mount will help with that, but they won't always be taking the time to pull it out, of course)

He LOVES 4K. The in-store demos have him convinced that's what he wants (yeah, I know). But he's not sure. He was considering the 1080p Samsung 8000, in terms of budget, so the best of the best 4k sets are probably out, even though he can go a little higher. The question is, should he bother? Or should I recommend he buy 1080p for now and wait a few more years to splurge?

I'm a plasma guy, and the excellent viewing angle Plasma offers would help, but unfortunately, I reluctantly have to agree that the room is bright enough that it's not a great candidate for plasma. So we really are looking at 1080p LCD vs 4k LCD. Further, at the relatively smaller size, the 4k advantage is clearly reduced, so again, not an easy call.

I'm curious what guidance y'all can offer on this score.
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post #522 of 1811 Old 07-27-2014, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalani View Post
So after reading through 18 pages of schoolyard arguments, I'm hoping against hope that perhaps, in a post or two here and there, this thread can actually live up to it's title and help me out: "UHD/4K Quandary: To Buy or Not to Buy"

My father in law is in the market to buy a new TV in the next 30 days. His space supports 55-60" max. Bigger sets would make it a lot easier to decide, but we play the cards we're dealt.

The room is very bright with lots of windows. The seating position is 12-15' away from the screen. The room is also open on one side to the kitchen, so the screen is often seen from a much farther distance, and an oblique viewing angle. (a good extending wall mount will help with that, but they won't always be taking the time to pull it out, of course)

He LOVES 4K. The in-store demos have him convinced that's what he wants (yeah, I know). But he's not sure. He was considering the 1080p Samsung 8000, in terms of budget, so the best of the best 4k sets are probably out, even though he can go a little higher. The question is, should he bother? Or should I recommend he buy 1080p for now and wait a few more years to splurge?

I'm a plasma guy, and the excellent viewing angle Plasma offers would help, but unfortunately, I reluctantly have to agree that the room is bright enough that it's not a great candidate for plasma. So we really are looking at 1080p LCD vs 4k LCD. Further, at the relatively smaller size, the 4k advantage is clearly reduced, so again, not an easy call.

I'm curious what guidance y'all can offer on this score.
If you think the argunents were school yard bull then you answered your own question.

4k is about being able to get closer and seeing detail without pixels thus a cinema effect.

In your case all those 18 pages repeared the exact answer over. And unfortunately over and over.

So to finaly answer your question no 4k won't help your dad.

4k at 55" from 10 to 12ft away makes no sense.

60 if you scoot the couch closer maybe.

Last edited by Mrorange303; 07-27-2014 at 11:47 AM.
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post #523 of 1811 Old 07-27-2014, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Kalani View Post
The room is very bright with lots of windows. The seating position is 12-15' away from the screen. The room is also open on one side to the kitchen, so the screen is often seen from a much farther distance, and an oblique viewing angle. (a good extending wall mount will help with that, but they won't always be taking the time to pull it out, of course)
I think he should get a 60" plasma. I have one in a room with lots of windows, and the brightness really isn't a problem. I also have a 50" 4k LED, which I like, but it's weakest point is that it looks bad from an oblique angle.

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post #524 of 1811 Old 07-27-2014, 12:12 PM
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Cool

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Originally Posted by Marc Wielage View Post
It will address them, but the problem is that we're in a state of flux. Everybody's using Rec709/BT1886 today, but the trend is going to be towards Rec2020 for a wider gamut. The joke in the business, though is that "it's called Rec2020 because the standard won't really work until the year 2020."

The problem I see is that all the current 1st-generation 4K sets are going to have the same problem the 1st-generation HD sets had -- mainly in that they'll fall by the wayside as new standards get developed. Guaranteed, the first 4K sets won't do HDR, Rec2020, 60P, and all that other stuff. Do we really need that? Maybe not. But it is sobering to reflect how fast these displays become obsolete.

The good news is that displays are getting cheaper. The bad is that there are people convinced they can get a decent 4K set for $500, which is just not true. I'm not even convinced those $500 Seikis can calibrate. I saw one over the weekend and was just appalled.

I'm not sure how well the Seiki would calibrate but I have Kuro's calibrated by some of the best on forum, David Abrams & D-Nice.
Point is I appreciate a calibrated set and use them regularly.

Still I have no problem watching quality blu-ray's (must have good source quality) upscaled to 4K on this Seiki using the built-in Movie setting.
Nothing obvious like awful skin tones or other discolorations jumps out at me at all.

No it's nothing like a great calibration but the added visible detail is undeniable and visually makes up a great deal for other attributes.

The better 4K sets are catching up in price/quality value every month it seems. I'm content to avoid paying a hefty price for tech that is rapidly becoming outdated in key features or even 'obsolete'.

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post #525 of 1811 Old 07-27-2014, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalani View Post
So after reading through 18 pages of schoolyard arguments, I'm hoping against hope that perhaps, in a post or two here and there, this thread can actually live up to it's title and help me out: "UHD/4K Quandary: To Buy or Not to Buy"

My father in law is in the market to buy a new TV in the next 30 days. His space supports 55-60" max. Bigger sets would make it a lot easier to decide, but we play the cards we're dealt.

The room is very bright with lots of windows. The seating position is 12-15' away from the screen. The room is also open on one side to the kitchen, so the screen is often seen from a much farther distance, and an oblique viewing angle. (a good extending wall mount will help with that, but they won't always be taking the time to pull it out, of course)

He LOVES 4K. The in-store demos have him convinced that's what he wants (yeah, I know). But he's not sure. He was considering the 1080p Samsung 8000, in terms of budget, so the best of the best 4k sets are probably out, even though he can go a little higher. The question is, should he bother? Or should I recommend he buy 1080p for now and wait a few more years to splurge?

I'm a plasma guy, and the excellent viewing angle Plasma offers would help, but unfortunately, I reluctantly have to agree that the room is bright enough that it's not a great candidate for plasma. So we really are looking at 1080p LCD vs 4k LCD. Further, at the relatively smaller size, the 4k advantage is clearly reduced, so again, not an easy call.

I'm curious what guidance y'all can offer on this score.
Sit closer to 4K and/or wait for a price you like on the largest possible 4K screen size.

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post #526 of 1811 Old 07-27-2014, 01:00 PM
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Sit closer to 4K and/or wait for a price you like on the largest possible 4K screen size.
It's not my room, and the WAF (and overall room design) will absolutely not allow the sofa to be moved.

60" is the absolute max TV size the wife will tolerate, so bigger is not going to be an option, period. I thought I was pretty clear that the screen size and seating positions are set in my initial post.
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post #527 of 1811 Old 07-27-2014, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Kalani View Post
It's not my room, and the WAF (and overall room design) will absolutely not allow the sofa to be moved.

60" is the absolute max TV size the wife will tolerate, so bigger is not going to be an option, period. I thought I was pretty clear that the screen size and seating positions are set in my initial post.
The answer is the answer. You may not agree with it. You got civilized answers for both 4k and plasma. What additional information do you need?
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post #528 of 1811 Old 07-27-2014, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Mrorange303 View Post
Soon the 4k sets will be the best no argument and all the owners and WEBSITES catching up will be too late.

It would be years ahead of the sites who have failed to keep ip with technology.

The way technology works the MAJORITY of the time is that the tech gets better which is evident with the 2013 4K displays vs. the 2014 4K displays, so someone getting into 4K later rather than sooner will NOT be playing catch up. On the contrary they will most likely have a cheaper and better display.


Which sites are not keeping up with the technology, because I believe most of respected periodicals are?

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post #529 of 1811 Old 07-27-2014, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post
The way technology works the MAJORITY of the time is that the tech gets better which is evident with the 2013 4K displays vs. the 2014 4K displays, so someone getting into 4K later rather than sooner will NOT be playing catch up. On the contrary they will most likely have a cheaper and better display.


Which sites are not keeping up with the technology, because I believe most of respected periodicals are?
However the reviews, the technology, the history with the sets, growth with the sets, tricks tips and familiarity would all benefit those who have cometely embraced 4k and moved forward with it as the minimum standard.

There is no more equal 1080p set now that lg has released the 77 oled 4k. That is rhe new standard.


But the 4k sets can do what the 1080p sets can do.

Your not getting features in the 1080p set that are missing in the 4k set besides lighting.

So it makes sense to make the jump now so you also have a history of 4k reviews from a 4k perspective.

Not a plasma 1080p perspective trying to compare the early stages of 4k with the very best 1080p had to offer which was plasma.


Many folk prefer 4k sets already.

The comparisons they are looking for are in depth 4k set comparisons with real comparable data and screen shots for the 4k sets.

Kind of how rtings.com does it but again strictly 4k.

It would also include an area for content. Links to a 4k users upload area and a voting system to get those videos that are quality uhd into users hands.

A photo setion. And best of all full measurments and calibrations by experts who would have their own calibration sections. Forum pages dedicated to the calibrator. To anser questions. Favorite tools and tips video are for the person wanting to get the most from the jump.

The widget would be all inclusive minus video content. Including forum subscription updates in widget.

I come up with business plans for entrepreneurs. This was off the top of my head. I have a team that really gets companys going. So I know how to get a fully thought out marketing system going. This is a very large idea. But the value and leadership in the industry would be second to none.

This is simple stuff. Just big. You should hear how I would save baseball. But patent pending so yeah ill have to wait for that.

Last edited by Mrorange303; 07-27-2014 at 02:23 PM.
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post #530 of 1811 Old 07-27-2014, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
If I were the mod, this thread would be cleaned up.

If I were a mod I would probably close this thread altogether. I think many have gone astray from the title of the thread. There are compelling reasons to purchase and not to purchase 4K and they are buyer specific. You create your own 4K content so you don't have a content issue. If my kids were not young adults and still active (high school varsity sports and competitive gymnastics) teens I would probably jump into 4K now and create my own content, but those days are behind me. I personally don't have a need for 4K since there is very little or no commercial content available and highly compressed Netflix is not the answer nor is up-converted Blu-ray, but these are my reasons and don't effect others who have embraced and enjoy 4K. This is one of those discussions where there really isn't a right or wrong answer just preference.


I am really looking forward to see what Panasonic unveils later this year and the mystical Vizo Reference display.

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post #531 of 1811 Old 07-27-2014, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Mrorange303 View Post
The answer is the answer. You may not agree with it. You got civilized answers for both 4k and plasma. What additional information do you need?
Thx. Mr. Orange. It was sort of a whack response for someone who says any advice is appreciated.

For the record I'm a big Plasma fan. Typing on 65" Panasonic 3D model right now and I've got TWO Kuros.

I don't have dog in the hunt. The 4K is the way to go ultimately just a matter of when it comes of age in price & feature for each individual user.
In the meantime high quality 1080p is still a great option.

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post #532 of 1811 Old 07-27-2014, 04:48 PM
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Pfft... All you noobs and your 4k talk. 4k is just sooo last year! Just imagine how silly you'll feel with that crummy 4k set when the rest of us are watching our 8k TVs!

http://www.nhk.or.jp/8k/sp/index_e.html
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post #533 of 1811 Old 07-27-2014, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post
Thx. Mr. Orange. It was sort of a whack response for someone who says any advice is appreciated.

For the record I'm a big Plasma fan. Typing on 65" Panasonic 3D model right now and I've got TWO Kuros.

I don't have dog in the hunt. The 4K is the way to go ultimately just a matter of when it comes of age in price & feature for each individual user.
In the meantime high quality 1080p is still a great option.
You got back what was put in.

And I don't care how many tvs you own. Its nice you mange to have 2 kuros but cant give your old man one and skip the thread all together.

4k is the future.

Instead id take my dad to the store and ask him. Or you can keep talking about how many tvs you own and why the answers dobt cover what you want.

Not that you asked another question. More like you just want to argue about plasma.
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post #534 of 1811 Old 07-27-2014, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
Pfft... All you noobs and your 4k talk. 4k is just sooo last year! Just imagine how silly you'll feel with that crummy 4k set when the rest of us are watching our 8k TVs!

http://www.nhk.or.jp/8k/sp/index_e.html
How much will those cost. 8k for 8k.
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post #535 of 1811 Old 07-27-2014, 05:22 PM
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The answer is the answer. You may not agree with it. You got civilized answers for both 4k and plasma. What additional information do you need?
Actually, no, I didn't get an answer to the question that I actually asked. I got recommendations to sit closer or buy bigger, and one vote for plasma. I had asked what the recommendations were for my specific situation: 55-60" max, 12' viewing distance, not plasma. Sitting closer or buying bigger are NOT applicable to my specific situation, nor is plasma appropriate for this installation (and again, I'm a plasma guy and would probably choose plasma if this was MY room, but as familiar as I am with the strengths and weaknesses of plasma, I'm comfortable recommending LCD, so I'm looking for the LCD that best fits the needs).

(BTW, I should have mentioned earlier, my in-laws don't really have any interest in 3D, so while I look forward to the boost the 4K will eventually deliver to my 3D BRs (once I jump aboard), the 3D benefits 4K delivers don't add any weight to the 4K side of the equation, for this installation.)

I don't have a dog in this race, since it's not for me personally, so I'd really like people's opinions, and especially an explanation of the thought processes behind them. I'm fine with either outcome (4k or not). But people who make recommendations that quite obviously do not apply to this particular situation, which I very carefully and thoroughly laid out, are being intellectually lazy, and wasting the time of everyone involved.

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post #536 of 1811 Old 07-27-2014, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Kalani View Post
Actually, no, I didn't get an answer to the question that I actually asked. I got recommendations to sit closer or buy bigger, and one vote for plasma. I had asked what the recommendations were for my specific situation: 55-60" max, 12' viewing distance, not plasma. Sitting closer or buying bigger are NOT applicable to my specific situation, nor is plasma appropriate for this installation (and again, I'm a plasma guy and would probably choose plasma if this was MY room, but as familiar as I am with the strengths and weaknesses of plasma, I'm comfortable recommending LCD, so I'm looking for the LCD that best fits the needs).

I don't have a dog in this race, since it's not for me personally, so I'd really like people's opinions, and especially an explanation of the thought processes behind them. I'm fine with either outcome (4k or not). But people who make recommendations that quite obviously do not apply to this particular situation, which I very carefully and thoroughly laid out, are being intellectually lazy, and wasting the time of everyone involved.
Check out the Vizio M series.

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post #537 of 1811 Old 07-27-2014, 05:43 PM
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Check out the Vizio M series.
Thanks, I'll look into it. Any specific model? I saw one mention of FA backlights on the Vizio website, but a review linked mentioned FALD is coming in a refresh, so I'm not sure which to look at. EDIT: I'm guessing the M602i-B3 is what you recommend?

Also, these appear to be 1080p, so I assume you're recommending skipping the 4K sets at this time, for my scenario?

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post #538 of 1811 Old 07-27-2014, 05:45 PM
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Thanks, I'll look into it. Any specific model? I saw one mention of FA backlights on the Vizio website, but a review linked mentioned FALD is coming in a refresh. These appear to be 1080p, so I assume you're recommending skipping the 4K sets at this time, for my scenario?
yes the Vizio M is a FALD 1080p set. If the goal is to get great image quality for the money within the parameters you set out, that's would be the place I'd start. Just make sure it's a a 2014 M series, at the size you think is ideal. The 2013 models are edgelit.
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post #539 of 1811 Old 07-27-2014, 05:45 PM
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So after reading through 18 pages of schoolyard arguments, I'm hoping against hope that perhaps, in a post or two here and there, this thread can actually live up to it's title and help me out: "UHD/4K Quandary: To Buy or Not to Buy"

My father in law is in the market to buy a new TV in the next 30 days. His space supports 55-60" max. Bigger sets would make it a lot easier to decide, but we play the cards we're dealt.

The room is very bright with lots of windows. The seating position is 12-15' away from the screen. The room is also open on one side to the kitchen, so the screen is often seen from a much farther distance, and an oblique viewing angle. (a good extending wall mount will help with that, but they won't always be taking the time to pull it out, of course)

He LOVES 4K. The in-store demos have him convinced that's what he wants (yeah, I know). But he's not sure. He was considering the 1080p Samsung 8000, in terms of budget, so the best of the best 4k sets are probably out, even though he can go a little higher. The question is, should he bother? Or should I recommend he buy 1080p for now and wait a few more years to splurge?

I'm a plasma guy, and the excellent viewing angle Plasma offers would help, but unfortunately, I reluctantly have to agree that the room is bright enough that it's not a great candidate for plasma. So we really are looking at 1080p LCD vs 4k LCD. Further, at the relatively smaller size, the 4k advantage is clearly reduced, so again, not an easy call.

I'm curious what guidance y'all can offer on this score.
if the room is too bright for the f8500, then it doesn't really matter, just get him the cheapest tv with a good screen filter on it. won't be able to appreciate any of the benefits of a good tv in a super bright room like that anyway.


ok, now that I've had my fun... seriously consider the f8500. it's nearly LED bright(I find it too bright to watch comfortably and had to turn on the eco mode) and it's got one of the best screen filters on the market. it's an amazingly versatile display that should work in most scenarios. super bright reflections right behind the viewer(assuming you are sitting on axis) are still an issue, but they are even more of an issue on the lcd's I own, so it would take a very special tv to solve that anyway. light from the sides or overhead are not a problem. it's not 'a plasma' it's 'an f8500'. seriously, you need to consider it separately as it's not typical(sometimes in a bad way) of other plasmas.


4k, imo, is too immature, and only pretends to offer you future-proofing. whatever tv you buy today, WILL be lacking important features found on even the basic 4k models in 2yrs.



so in TODAY's market, the f8500 is really the only tv I'd recommend. I'd say plan B is to buy a cheap 1080P LCD with the intention of replacing it in a year or two with the 4k one once the dust has settled a bit and you have more options. if you can get a tv for 800bux or less today, I'm pretty sure 4k TV's will have gone down that much in a couple years anyway. I normally say that the best value is to buy the best TV you can and use it longer, but in this case I just don't see a 4k tv you buy today being much more future proof than a 1080p tv. the first HD tv we bought didn't have hdmi inputs, waiting one more year would have made a big difference for us that time. I don't want to make that mistake again
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post #540 of 1811 Old 07-27-2014, 05:57 PM
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Check out the Vizio M series.
I agree and don't agree with Mark in this recommendation. I say check out the Vizio M if you plan on getting a calibration. Otherwise I would recommend the Sony 60" W630.

The reason I say this is the Vizio M has a good reputation post-calibration but it pretty awful out of the box. The Sony, on the other hand, has a superb out of the box picture. Of course it will still greatly benefit from a calibration but it's not a necessity as much as the M.

The sony is affordable, has a very uniform picture due to it's direct backlighting and, being a sony, is likely to a bit more reliable. Echoing Fierce, I really wouldn't spend a bundle on a tv in a bright room-- you'll likely not see the advantages over a less expensive model.
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