UHD/4K Quandary: To Buy or Not to Buy - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 1679 Old 07-21-2014, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Mattopotamus View Post
There seems to be a big disconnect from people talking about upgrading to get 4k vs people upgrading b.c they need a new TV.

If you need a new TV is makes sense to buy 4k. If you have a great 1080p, you should wait for a more finalized standard.
That's about it right there.
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post #32 of 1679 Old 07-21-2014, 06:06 AM
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If I could be guaranteed that my UHD/4K set would never display Pitbull, I could be swayed to purchase sooner than later.

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post #33 of 1679 Old 07-21-2014, 06:12 AM
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That's about it right there.
Yeah it is.
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post #34 of 1679 Old 07-21-2014, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Mrorange303 View Post
How do you know its a better expirience? I get you have a great plasma. But if like younyou all say it was so good then why did it die?

Everything is better in 4k. Everything.

I have never liked plasma televisions. Living in Colorado we have a short life span with plasmas here. Low oxygen doesnt help the tech.

My last example is the never perfected 720p sets. Why did you buy a 1080p set?
For the love of God, STOP!

No one is interested in another endless plasma vs LCD debate. Seriously. The question posed by Scott has absolutely zero to do with plasma vs LCD and the discussion about the other three areas of the proposed UHDTV standard are just as relevent whether your 4k TV uses LCD, OLED or magical pixie dust. LCD televisions and tech can certainly benefit from increased color depth (arguably this is an area LCD has held an advantage for some time anyway), higher native frame rate (which would solve a lot of complaints about motion performance) and HDR (which is an exciting technological development that would take advantage of LCD's particular strengths).

So, please, let's keep the discussion focused on the topic at hand and not let yet another thread devolve into a pissing match that, frankly, doesn't matter as plasma won't be an option going forward.
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post #35 of 1679 Old 07-21-2014, 06:13 AM
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Stupid to buy current 4k tvs as they are now. Quad hd as they are known as Ultra hd is more than resolution and i hope the new bd specs udhd ur 4k as most calls it even i lol, includes a wider colour gamut n 120hz support...

I bought a 1080p oled n will be waiting ....
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post #36 of 1679 Old 07-21-2014, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
For the love of God, STOP!

No one is interested in another endless plasma vs LCD debate. Seriously. The question posed by Scott has absolutely zero to do with plasma vs LCD and the discussion about the other three areas of the proposed UHDTV standard are just as relevent whether your 4k TV uses LCD, OLED or magical pixie dust. LCD televisions and tech can certainly benefit from increased color depth (arguably this is an area LCD has held an advantage for some time anyway), higher native frame rate (which would solve a lot of complaints about motion performance) and HDR (which is an exciting technological development that would take advantage of LCD's particular strengths).

So, please, let's keep the discussion focused on the topic at hand and not let yet another thread devolve into a pissing match that, frankly, doesn't matter as plasma won't be an option going forward.
Why did you even post in this thread? Wouldnt this be the exact thread to talk about plasma. Its a 4k upgrade thread and many plasma owners are bringing up that they feel plasma should of been given more attention before its demise.
Its totally relevant in 4k discussion. Also im pretty sure there are some pretty well known people joining in the conversation.
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post #37 of 1679 Old 07-21-2014, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by vaktmestern View Post
Stupid to buy current 4k tvs as they are now. Quad hd as they are known as Ultra hd is more than resolution and i hope the new bd specs udhd ur 4k as most calls it even i lol, includes a wider colour gamut n 120hz support...

I bought a 1080p oled n will be waiting ....
They stopped filming 1080p movies years ago. You been watching an watered down product.

It funny that we as consumers dont realize they need to have 4k sets in the market for 4k material too.

They have begun. If you buy a brand new 1080p set today then you missed an opportunity. Youll be back looking at sets in less than 5 years.
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post #38 of 1679 Old 07-21-2014, 06:19 AM
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As someone that just bought a UHD TV I'd really like some native 4K content. I think the only 4K TVs anyone should be buying at this point is Samsung's because the AVSforum community has found out that they are using 10 bit panels in their curved displays (which Samsung is not touting) and they have an external box thats upgradable with all the processing in it. If any current TV's will do the final UHD spec it will be Samsung's.

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post #39 of 1679 Old 07-21-2014, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by DELTAsnake View Post
As someone that just bought a UHD TV I'd really like some native 4K content. I think the only 4K TVs anyone should be buying at this point is Samsung's because the AVSforum community has found out that they are using 10 bit panels in their curved displays (which Samsung is not touting) and they have an external box thats upgradable with all the processing in it. If any current TV's will do the final UHD spec it will be Samsung's.
I aslo bought the curved samsung.
Also Netflix already has 4k material and new movies pop up without warning. Now they have hitch, ghost busters 2, smurfs 2. More coming so the 4k material is there.

But NOT A SINGLE 1080P set has a picture that can compare to 4k 3d.
The 3d picture on my tv is better looking than the 2d picture on 99 out of 100 sets. The last one is debatable. As an owner of an extra large 3d colloection of blurays I find this to be a huge bonus.
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post #40 of 1679 Old 07-21-2014, 06:25 AM
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Why did you even post in this thread? Wouldnt this be the exact thread to talk about plasma. Its a 4k upgrade thread and many plasma owners are bringing up that they feel plasma should of been given more attention before its demise.
Its totally relevant in 4k discussion. Also im pretty sure there are some pretty well known people joining in the conversation.
Yes, of course plasma is still relevant. And, this thread is definitely about buying—or not buying—UHD/4K. After all, I just bought a plamsa, and I certainly could have looked at 4K options instead. The fact is you can still buy a plasma today, and for the money the technology still provides a better dark room viewing experience than LCD for well over 99% of all the content that's out there. UHD/4K today is exactly where 3D was when it first rolled out—it's immature tech that drives up costs, and there's almost nothing to watch that takes advantage of it.
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post #41 of 1679 Old 07-21-2014, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Mrorange303 View Post
Why did you even post in this thread? Wouldnt this be the exact thread to talk about plasma. Its a 4k upgrade thread and many plasma owners are bringing up that they feel plasma should of been given more attention before its demise.
Its totally relevant in 4k discussion. Also im pretty sure there are some pretty well known people joining in the conversation.
Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. LCD doesn't need you to champion it or defend it. LCD is the choice at this time and that won't have any hope of changing until/if OLED can bring it's price down to a reasonable price point. It's a forgone conclusion that the last generation of plasma TVs (VT/ZT60, F8500) were the absolute definition of reference picture quality. There is absolutely nothing wrong with desiring/expecting that level of picture quality and performance from today's 4k LCDs. If you want to discuss plasma vs LCD go find one of the numerous other threads to stand on your soap box. Let's keep it out of this thread as it's not relevant to the discussion at hand.

edit: Your discussion of the advantages of 3d on a 4k set are totally relevant however.

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post #42 of 1679 Old 07-21-2014, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. LCD doesn't need you to champion it or defend it. LCD is the choice at this time and that won't have any hope of changing until/if OLED can bring it's price down to a reasonable price point. It's a forgone conclusion that the last generation of plasma TVs (VT/ZT60, F8500) were the absolute definition of reference picture quality. There is absolutely nothing wrong with desiring/expecting that level of picture quality and performance from today's 4k LCDs. If you want to discuss plasma vs LCD go find one of the numerous other threads to stand on your soap box. Let's keep it out of this thread as it's not relevant to the discussion at hand.
The plasma owners who want to discuss this has the right.

If its relevant to the topic. A 4k plasma is not realistic. Should you buy a 4k lcd or top line plasma. Easy question.

4k isnt against just lcd. It also has to go against plasma. So its relevent. Your just missibg the point because your focused on the old debate your stuck in. No one else in this thread is having this issue.
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post #43 of 1679 Old 07-21-2014, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by DELTAsnake View Post
As someone that just bought a UHD TV I'd really like some native 4K content. I think the only 4K TVs anyone should be buying at this point is Samsung's because the AVSforum community has found out that they are using 10 bit panels in their curved displays (which Samsung is not touting) and they have an external box thats upgradable with all the processing in it. If any current TV's will do the final UHD spec it will be Samsung's.
LG's are also 10 bit, and they tout it
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post #44 of 1679 Old 07-21-2014, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Mrorange303 View Post
They stopped filming 1080p movies years ago. You been watching an watered down product.

It funny that we as consumers dont realize they need to have 4k sets in the market for 4k material too.

They have begun. If you buy a brand new 1080p set today then you missed an opportunity. Youll be back looking at sets in less than 5 years.

As will you when you can't watch content coded for HDR and a better color gamut, etc. Don't bet too mush on the evolution kit. I have asked Samsung reps and it will not support more than 8 bit color. You may not care now but when you see how much better 12 bit color looks, you will. Unless they provide you with an ironclad guarantee in writing that the evolution kit will support all of the 4K future standards or you money back, all you have is a questionable promise.

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post #45 of 1679 Old 07-21-2014, 06:45 AM
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Yes, of course plasma is still relevant. And, this thread is definitely about buying—or not buying—UHD/4K. After all, I just bought a plamsa, and I certainly could have looked at 4K options instead. The fact is you can still buy a plasma today, and for the money the technology still provides a better dark room viewing experience than LCD for well over 99% of all the content that's out there. UHD/4K today is exactly where 3D was when it first rolled out—it's immature tech that drives up costs, and there's almost nothing to watch that takes advantage of it.
My bluray collection is enormous. Im still finding movies in 3d I forgot I own.

It is more than relevant. The 3d on my tv has a picture plasma doesnt.

Iys not fair for you to just blow it off becaue you think its a gimmick to a tv. Its important to me. I find many others as well who almost bought the x900a just for its 3d performance.

I think people genralize with their own likes and expiriences a little too much here. Clearly a vast prefrence of viewing variables exiat in just this one thread alone. Imagine the whole forum.

I say 3d is an extra feature some of us hold very important because some of us has indeed invested into the tech,
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post #46 of 1679 Old 07-21-2014, 06:48 AM
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As will you when you can't watch content coded for HDR and a better color gamut, etc. Don't bet too mush on the evolution kit. I have asked Samsung reps and it will not support more than 8 bit color. YOu may not care now but when you see how much better 12 or even 10 bit color looks, you will.
Your giving out false information. Please review tour info before posting incoreect info.

Samsung.com will have the answers you sek. Also please read reviews etc.

It does indeed support it. Weather natice or through software tricks I dont care. It does support 10 bit. Hdr i dont know but more and more I beleive the sammys will.

If not only vizio does this year. And good luck with that.
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post #47 of 1679 Old 07-21-2014, 07:01 AM
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The 4K quandary: To buy or not to buy? I aint buying anytime soon. It will be years before I even consider buying a 4K tv. Why? The standards need to be worked out and there needs to be more true 4K content to even consider buying one plus the price is a bit to much for my taste.
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post #48 of 1679 Old 07-21-2014, 07:02 AM
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My bluray collection is enormous. Im still finding movies in 3d I forgot I own.

It is more than relevant. The 3d on my tv has a picture plasma doesnt.

Iys not fair for you to just blow it off becaue you think its a gimmick to a tv. Its important to me. I find many others as well who almost bought the x900a just for its 3d performance.

I think people genralize with their own likes and expiriences a little too much here. Clearly a vast prefrence of viewing variables exiat in just this one thread alone. Imagine the whole forum.

I say 3d is an extra feature some of us hold very important because some of us has indeed invested into the tech,
I'm pretty open-minded. I'd counter that the 3D on my F8500 is the best I've seen, and it is a plasma... but I also know what an advantage it is to have full-resolution passive 3D play back on a UHDTV—full 1080p passive 3D is a glorious thing!

I certainly don't think that either 3D or 4K are gimmicks.
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post #49 of 1679 Old 07-21-2014, 07:26 AM
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No it would not be a debate. And, when UHD OLEDs hit the market (price notwithstanding) it will address the one glaring issue (in a home theater context) with UHD/4K TVs today—they are based on LED-lit LCD technology that has yet to mature to the point where it performs as well—in many ways, not all—as OLED or plasma.
I agree. Shortly maybe 10 years or so oled will be basically our main sets.
I bet more sets will be ready by next ces 2015 as well. More than just vizio.
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post #50 of 1679 Old 07-21-2014, 07:31 AM
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The CEA has sprung into action and has developed a voluntary to manufacturers standard to ensure that what you buy is a UHD set with the CEA seal of approval (to come). The set must at a minimum do 3840 x 2160, must scale 1920 x 1080 to 3840 x 2160, must have an aspect ratio of 1.78 or higher, do a color space at least as wide as BT709 at 3840 x 2160, do at least 8 bit, and have at least one HDMI input that will accept 3840 x 2160 at 24, 30 and 60 fps and is protected by HDCP 2.2 or its equivalent. Nothing else matters to get the seal of approval. Designed to tell consumer what is real UHD at this point and yet allow the industry to do more. No mention of other things. I guess those are not important to get real UHD, But at least they have forced all UHD manufacturers to go to a 3840 x 2160 at 60 input and to be able to handle HVEC.accept content protected by HDCP 2.2 or its equivalent.

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post #51 of 1679 Old 07-21-2014, 07:33 AM
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I'm pretty open-minded. I'd counter that the 3D on my F8500 is the best I've seen, and it is a plasma... but I also know what an advantage it is to have full-resolution passive 3D play back on a UHDTV—full 1080p passive 3D is a glorious thing!

I certainly don't think that either 3D or 4K are gimmicks.
Have you had the pleasure of pacific rim in 3d on the 65hu9000? Glorious. I admit my sitting room is about 7 to 9 ft from my set. I own a 65".

My friend who got me into 4k has a passive x9a.

He agrees it is not as good as my set. I would hope you get the chance to see this specific set do this particular thing.

Please let me know if you have access. It would be worth your time.
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post #52 of 1679 Old 07-21-2014, 07:37 AM
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How do you know its a better expirience? I get you have a great plasma. But if like younyou all say it was so good then why did it die?

Everything is better in 4k. Everything.

I have never liked plasma televisions. Living in Colorado we have a short life span with plasmas here. Low oxygen doesnt help the tech.

My last example is the never perfected 720p sets. Why did you buy a 1080p set?
I know from having looked at some of the Sony 4K's I mentioned and noticed some color accuracy differences compared to my VT50 for example. I looked at the content on 4K display units displaying actually native 4K demo content, and even that was hardly different from 1080p once you get to a certain viewing distance. Better from a few feet, but not that much of a difference from a more normal viewing distance (especially if looking at regular content that is not yet offered in native 4K).
imagic explained nicely what happened to plasma: it didn't die because it wasn't good, but because of the lower cost pressure from LED's etc. Plasmas, just like any TV, aren't perfect, but they still produce the reference image quality in many aspects. I am not saying it will stay like that forever either. It is clear that 4K will eventually become a standard anyway, and this discussion will be a moot point.
Accordingly, I bought a 1080p system as it became such a standard, TV content was offered in 1080, games were made in 1080p, etc. Also, the visually perceptible difference between 720p and 1080p is considerably higher in the normal viewing ranges than the difference between 1080p and 4K - simply a matter of capabilities of the human eye...
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post #53 of 1679 Old 07-21-2014, 07:45 AM
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If you buy a UHD/4K TV now, it probably won't be able to display the higher dynamic range and wider color gamut in the content that's coming a couple of years from now—and in a side-by-side comparison between today's UHD/4K content and that future content on a compatible display, the differences will NOT be subtle, I can assure you.
Scott. Can you explain in more detail how the above statement might be true for a panel like Toshiba's forthcoming L9400U? Thanks.

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post #54 of 1679 Old 07-21-2014, 07:45 AM
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Well the ISF lists the four major factors affecting picture quality in order of importance as dynamic range (contrast), color saturation, color accuracy and THEN resolution. So basically the CE industry have given us the fourth most important aspect affecting picture quality and ignored the first three. Fun. Not seeing the point of 4k as it is available in the market right now. Especially considering most (if not all) of the 4k sets currently on the market would be a step down in contrast and color saturation from my VT60.

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post #55 of 1679 Old 07-21-2014, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Mrorange303 View Post
I aslo bought the curved samsung.
Also Netflix already has 4k material and new movies pop up without warning. Now they have hitch, ghost busters 2, smurfs 2. More coming so the 4k material is there.

But NOT A SINGLE 1080P set has a picture that can compare to 4k 3d.
The 3d picture on my tv is better looking than the 2d picture on 99 out of 100 sets. The last one is debatable. As an owner of an extra large 3d colloection of blurays I find this to be a huge bonus.
Is that so, I urge you to look at some dlp's then, they are far better for 3d then any lcd or plasma. Also streaming 4k content I would wager for a long time will look far worse then a 1080p blu-ray due for compression reasons. I am glad you are happy with your purchase, that is of course what is most important.


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The CEA has sprung into action and has developed a voluntary to manufacturers standard to ensure that what you buy is a UHD set with the CEA seal of approval (to come). The set must at a minimum do 3840 x 2160, must scale 1920 x 1080 to 3840 x 2160, must have an aspect ratio of 1.78 or higher, do a color space at least as wide as BT709 at 3840 x 2160, do at least 8 bit, and have at least one HDMI input that will accept 3840 x 2160 at 24, 30 and 60 fps and is protected by HDCP 2.2 or its equivalent. Nothing else matters to get the seal of approval. Designed to prevent consumer as to what's real UHD and yet allow the industry to do more. No mention of other things. I guess those are not important to get real UHD,
If UHD/4k is only going to be 8bit, my excitement and the need to upgrade for myself will drop dramatically. The seal of approval sounds like it means nothing, there is really no feasible way to guarantee a television can do everything that will be in a spec that has yet to be finalized (and may not be finalized for over a year or two from what it seems).


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Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. LCD doesn't need you to champion it or defend it. LCD is the choice at this time and that won't have any hope of changing until/if OLED can bring it's price down to a reasonable price point. It's a forgone conclusion that the last generation of plasma TVs (VT/ZT60, F8500) were the absolute definition of reference picture quality. There is absolutely nothing wrong with desiring/expecting that level of picture quality and performance from today's 4k LCDs. If you want to discuss plasma vs LCD go find one of the numerous other threads to stand on your soap box. Let's keep it out of this thread as it's not relevant to the discussion at hand.

edit: Your discussion of the advantages of 3d on a 4k set are totally relevant however.
Actually discussing plasmas in this thread is entirely relevant to the discussion at hand. Why 4k is not worth it to many is the issues that lcd has, that plasmas do not have. Furthermore the reason people are interested in 4k is superior pq. Yet at the same time in shoot outs several plasmas where consistently considered superior in this regard then any 4k television. This is a thread about whether one thinks 4k tv's of today are worth it, which invariably will involve discussing it in comparison with today's plasmas, oleds and 1080p lcds, all of which are all relevant to the discussion. Repeating "stop" will not make your point any more valid and the discussion of plasma any less relevant.

Last edited by FilmReverie; 07-21-2014 at 07:52 AM.
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post #56 of 1679 Old 07-21-2014, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Z-Mad View Post
I know from having looked at some of the Sony 4K's I mentioned and noticed some color accuracy differences compared to my VT50 for example. I looked at the content on 4K display units displaying actually native 4K demo content, and even that was hardly different from 1080p once you get to a certain viewing distance. Better from a few feet, but not that much of a difference from a more normal viewing distance (especially if looking at regular content that is not yet offered in native 4K).
imagic explained nicely what happened to plasma: it didn't die because it wasn't good, but because of the lower cost pressure from LED's etc. Plasmas, just like any TV, aren't perfect, but they still produce the reference image quality in many aspects. I am not saying it will stay like that forever either. It is clear that 4K will eventually become a standard anyway, and this discussion will be a moot point.
Accordingly, I bought a 1080p system as it became such a standard, TV content was offered in 1080, games were made in 1080p, etc. Also, the visually perceptible difference between 720p and 1080p is considerably higher in the normal viewing ranges than the difference between 1080p and 4K - simply a matter of capabilities of the human eye...
We'll sit fairly close I guess that is why I am so admiring of 4k tech. I also have 20/15 vision. Not that I am saying huge thing or anything but I've always noticed pixels in hd material. Uhd non with good native 4k. But we will all own 4k sets anyway one day so what's the big deal. I think there are advantages and we early adopters drive the tech.
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post #57 of 1679 Old 07-21-2014, 07:57 AM
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Its off topic but worth throwing in the ring...
In the time we've owned our 720P plasma we've all noticed the image quality has improved. This is most noticeable on big budget tv (satellite) ads. Equally important the sound quality has also improved. Both have improved so much that the advertisements often look and sound better than the program being viewed.
This could be supply related (Bell satellite in Canada) but its this same idea of a not so subtle improvement I'm looking for with current tech/displays.
Its not just new commercials compared against old content, its better content shining on old tech.

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post #58 of 1679 Old 07-21-2014, 08:00 AM
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I am excited about the 4K TVs currently out there and the ones coming out. I am into photography and have went to some local stores to see my photos on a 4K set and it is very pleasing. However, I will be wanting more from a 4K TV and may just hold off for awhile and be happy with my 5 year old 1080p Samsung which is working perfectly. Unless it breaks down then I WOULD get a 4K TV without a doubt since the prices are getting very competitive with the 1080p sets.
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post #59 of 1679 Old 07-21-2014, 08:08 AM
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DLP has strengths, particularly 3D if that is important to your viewing priorities. I have had a 4K projector for over two years now and I truly love it watching mostly 1080 i and 720p upscaled to 3840 x 2160. i think most of my love is do to the high quality of the projector as distinguished from just its ability to put 3840 x 2160 real individual pixels on the screen but even then there is something to the extra pixel density when viewed from 12 ft (my screen is 54 x 96) compared to a very high quality 1080p set.

The fact that more content is coming that is just 3840 x 2160 but with only BT 709, 8 bit doesn't excite me or justify buying a 3840 x 2160 set blessed by the CEA. Still overall its better. 2 years is truly wildly optimistic for getting a UHD that we went. The existence of technology is what sets a deliverable standard. Standards organizations and the CEA is a trade association whose purpose is to further the well being of its members tend to establish a standard based on what can be produced in a short short period of time. If you can't make it now, its useless as far as a manufacturer is concerned.

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post #60 of 1679 Old 07-21-2014, 08:11 AM
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Re color space. People go to the movies and see a P3 color space. they come home and see the same movie some time later and its in BT 709, really a quite narrower space. They don't complain and usually say it looks better at home because the contrast is better. They don't notice the lesser colors that can be reproduced.
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