UHD/4K Quandary: To Buy or Not to Buy - Page 35 - AVS Forum
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post #1021 of 1786 Old 08-07-2014, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by rodpaine View Post
I've looked through this entire thread and can't find any comments at all about what a high-quality Blu-ray might look like upscaled via an Oppo BDP-105 and viewed on a 4k TV.

I have a friend that says the picture quality is 'great' in his opinion, but can't define what he means by 'great'. He's using a new Samsung UN55HU8550 55-Inch 4k TV. Anybody looked at this via an Oppo BDP-105 and a 4k TV, who can describe what picture quality improvements can be realized via such a configuration?

I have a BDP-105 and am considering upgrading my older Samsung 40-inch to a 55-inch to better support my actual viewing distance.
If you haven't already, you might try the Oppo thread in the BD player forum.

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post #1022 of 1786 Old 08-07-2014, 09:57 AM
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The 4k sets do everything the 1080p sets can do. Fact.
The 1080p sets can't do everything the 4k sets can do. Fact.

Prices are very close now.

Cons of 4k? A slightly higher price for a 4k set.

That's it.
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post #1023 of 1786 Old 08-07-2014, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Mrorange303 View Post
The 4k sets do everything the 1080p sets can do. Fact.
That is not a fact. 4K sets are LCD-LED and have inferior black levels and viewing angles to available 2K sets.

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post #1024 of 1786 Old 08-07-2014, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
That is not a fact. 4K sets are LCD-LED and have inferior black levels and viewing angles to available 2K sets.
I never said they do it all better.

I said it does everything. And they can do those things respectively too.

I also want to point out as content does begin to flow more you will be able to enjoy that content.

When 4k sets do become standard all current sets will be outdated.

All of them.

The benefits of resolution you have to determine for yourself.

But if it's not 4k I'd say get your hands on a f8500 right now. Oled quality picture. Not quite the pop but darn good.




We cane take two approaches to this 4k thing.

1. The current best ever 1080p set
And use them enjoying the best that generation of viewing has to offer for now and the foreseeable future.

Or 2. Get a 4k set and begin your transition now by using YouTube uhd material and netflix as well. There are the more 4k services coming this year including direct tv.

NFL sport etc will be upscaled and from what I can see look fantastic. More today. Can't wait.

I have the Tera bite samsung drive that came in the promotion and later this year I will be able to get addional content to what I own now.

I do not think older movies in upscaled 4k are worth buying again. I will just keep my older blurays they look great.

But from 2015 on I hope to have 4k films filmed in 4k playing on a 4k player.

My tv without standards of tomorrow will still be able to play those things.

And when 4k is standard and oled has finally been saturated and I can trust it. I'll buy my next set.

This is a transition period for us all. You will go through it one way or another.
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post #1025 of 1786 Old 08-07-2014, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by 5x10 View Post
whats stopping them from producing 8k or 16k now? It seems like they would have the upscaling technology and I dont expect a plethora of 4k content, so 80% of the content will be upscaled
Right, why are there no flying cars.
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post #1026 of 1786 Old 08-07-2014, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post
It is nice to be an enthusiastic owner and I respect that, but what are the verifiable Pros and Cons of 4K?
I'm not sure where your at with your level of research on the 4k sets. I mean are you saying my experiences are unique. Or do you mean you have read the things I say and want proof of it physically?

The issue I've posted pictures. But I can't defend pictures. We all know any set can look great with the right picture.

I don't have access to equipment to measure.

However there owners forums where I have directed people many times.

I always explain that I only tell people why to get a 4k set. I have never told anyone to not get a 1080 set. This thread was for potential buyers. I speak to them from an owners perspective. I see many do not have that perspective but will tell those potential buyers I'm wrong with my observations.

There is an owners forum where you can see. Best buys with 4k centers are popping up.

Owners who can defy your logic because they also own vt60 sets. F8500 sets. I myself have a f8000 set. USA models.

But my point is the owners of 4k vary. It really is an interesting place to ask some questions.

The sony x900b, sony x950b, and samsung hu9000, samsung hu8550 forums all have these owners.

Take a trip and post some questions. Not crazy questions. Real user questions. You may be surprised.

Or it may actually prove that 4k is not for you and make you wait. That has happened too. But it's a good place to start.
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post #1027 of 1786 Old 08-07-2014, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
That is not a fact. 4K sets are LCD-LED and have inferior black levels and viewing angles to available 2K sets.
Well, in a very short period of time, 4K sets will include both LED & OLED. At that point generic 4K statements about black levels & viewing angle arguments are out the window. There are also, currently, a few FALD UHD TVs, so even there your black level argument is not entirely accurate. Viewing angle issues, yes...with the exception of the 79" UHD Sony.

Regarding 2K sets, which are you referring to? Most 2K TVs are also LED/LCD with exactly the same issues as UHD TVs, so I'm not so sure about your black level/viewing angle arguments there either. In fact the only plasma still in production is the F8500 and that will be done by the end of the year.
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post #1028 of 1786 Old 08-07-2014, 11:24 AM
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Glimmie, what are you referencing when you say 'debut this fall'? Is that Directv's upcoming 4K?
There are at least four, possibly six 4K end to end shows in production for VOD this fall that I know of. AFAIK, none are for DirecTV. These are within the two mega post facilities conglomerates, Deluxe and Technicolor. Now there many small boutique shops these days so the amount of 4K material could be even higher. Anybody with about $50K in BlackMagic Design gear can post a 4K project albeit not very efficiently but a one man shop doesn't need to worry about that.

There is no doubt content is coming. The question is will it stay?

A lot of people here liken 4K to HDTV in 2000. I don't see it that way. It's more like 3D TV. With HDTV we had an much more highly developed plan with at least one major TV network and the government behind it. 4K has been pushed solely by the display manufactures just as with 3D.

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post #1029 of 1786 Old 08-07-2014, 11:53 AM
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Right, why are there no flying cars.
The oil companies. Duh!!!
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post #1030 of 1786 Old 08-07-2014, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by 5x10 View Post
whats stopping them from producing 8k or 16k now? It seems like they would have the upscaling technology and I dont expect a plethora of 4k content, so 80% of the content will be upscaled
They've already demonstrated "8K" TVs and "8K" content (7680x4320).
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post #1031 of 1786 Old 08-07-2014, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post
They've already demonstrated "8K" TVs and "8K" content (7680x4320).
As sets continue to grow the pixels begin to get bigger to fill a larger area. So it makes sense to keep the clarity we should have 8k sets. I imagine a 120" set would benefit from 8k.

I have never confirmed this but I'm just saying the thinking is as we go bigger to keep the clarity we need higher resolutions.

If vizio pulls it off that would be a great HT set. Too bad no 3d. That leaves projectors as the superior HT experience.
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post #1032 of 1786 Old 08-07-2014, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post
There are at least four, possibly six 4K end to end shows in production for VOD this fall that I know of. AFAIK, none are for DirecTV. These are within the two mega post facilities conglomerates, Deluxe and Technicolor. Now there many small boutique shops these days so the amount of 4K material could be even higher. Anybody with about $50K in BlackMagic Design gear can post a 4K project albeit not very efficiently but a one man shop doesn't need to worry about that.

There is no doubt content is coming. The question is will it stay?

A lot of people here liken 4K to HDTV in 2000. I don't see it that way. It's more like 3D TV. With HDTV we had an much more highly developed plan with at least one major TV network and the government behind it. 4K has been pushed solely by the display manufactures just as with 3D.
I just can't get how it is more like 3d. It's exactly like the 1080 bump.

However streaming media is now a major player in this and that needs to be considered. Not only is it easier to now find and view content in uhd. You don't have to leave your house to do it.

I can see the uhd market easily spreading fatster than hd did. Will it I don't know. But if it doesn't it's because of tools.

Also I want to point out 4k makes your 3d fad statement void. If you have not seen a good 4k 3d experience than you should watch pacific rim on the hu9000.

1080p in each eye at 60 fps and the brightness of the f8500 turned up. It's a wonderful experience. Wonderful.
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post #1033 of 1786 Old 08-07-2014, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Mrorange303 View Post
If you have not seen a good 4k 3d experience than you should watch pacific rim on the hu9000.
Have you seen "good" 4K? I'll bet not. I work for one of the two companies I noted in my last post. I have seen uncompressed and lightly compressed 4K many times. And I have seen projected 4K since around 2007.

I work in the business and have seen many inside reports. Your view of 4K adoption is very inflated. Yes, we are going down that road but very carefully. 4K is not going to be the next HDTV wave. It's just not. There will always be supporters for the latest cutting edge technology. But will there be enough to substain the format? Nobody has that answer yet but we will in a year or two.

You are too focused on the technology and neglecting the business side altogether. It has to make money and that involves a lot more than the display manufactures.

And I also gotta tell you there are quite a few problems with all the 4K displays out there today. All of them. Don't forget any 4K project must also be distributed in HD as well as SD, yes SD! Well these new 4K monitors don't match well to the accepted HD screens in use professionally today. That's a problem! I may not seem so to a consumer but it's no small issue professionally. The distribution pie is a lot larger than you can imagine. Nobody is going to produce 4K material just for the 4K market outside of demo clips. You have to make it available to all viewers.

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If I buy a 4k TV it won't be curve ,curve is ridiculous on a 65" TV.

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post #1035 of 1786 Old 08-07-2014, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Mrorange303 View Post
As sets continue to grow the pixels begin to get bigger to fill a larger area. So it makes sense to keep the clarity we should have 8k sets. I imagine a 120" set would benefit from 8k.

I have never confirmed this but I'm just saying the thinking is as we go bigger to keep the clarity we need higher resolutions.

If vizio pulls it off that would be a great HT set. Too bad no 3d. That leaves projectors as the superior HT experience.

I agree with you here, large formats can really benefit from more pixels, although they are still stunning at 1080p. I am told the Sony 4K Projectors are seriously sharp and jaw dropping good. Even the 4K E-shift(Up-conversion) on my JVC is pretty good. But still I would not trade away the amazing black levels I get with the JVC for more pixels, I would love more pixels but black levels, for me, are very important for the content I like. Which is largely Sci Fi and Fantasy type movies and shows. I am however a big supporter of 4k and in time 4K sets will be producing amazing black levels and blowing everyone away.

James Reid:D
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post #1036 of 1786 Old 08-07-2014, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post
There are at least four, possibly six 4K end to end shows in production for VOD this fall that I know of. AFAIK, none are for DirecTV. These are within the two mega post facilities conglomerates, Deluxe and Technicolor. Now there many small boutique shops these days so the amount of 4K material could be even higher. Anybody with about $50K in BlackMagic Design gear can post a 4K project albeit not very efficiently but a one man shop doesn't need to worry about that.

There is no doubt content is coming. The question is will it stay?

A lot of people here liken 4K to HDTV in 2000. I don't see it that way. It's more like 3D TV. With HDTV we had an much more highly developed plan with at least one major TV network and the government behind it. 4K has been pushed solely by the display manufactures just as with 3D.
I agree (in fact, I said as much a few pages back). While I also drew the comparison to 3d I think 4k has a much better chance of success simply on the fact you don't need glasses to watch it! Lol!

4k is obviously dimishing returns as back in the SD to HD switch no one was having the discussion we're having here about whether or not there is an appreciable difference and at what distance that difference was really attainable.

Still, I can't see 4k going the 3d route (where manufacturers actually stop supporting it) for no other reason than it can't cost much more to produce a 4k panel and it's an easier sell to the typical customer than: here, wear these awful glasses and make your eyes bleed-- it's fun!
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post #1037 of 1786 Old 08-07-2014, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

....There is no doubt content is coming. The question is will it stay?

A lot of people here liken 4K to HDTV in 2000. I don't see it that way. It's more like 3D TV. With HDTV we had an much more highly developed plan with at least one major TV network and the government behind it. 4K has been pushed solely by the display manufactures just as with 3D.
"This TV has four times the resolution as that one and it's the same price? I'll take it"

You are at the Best Buy, walking down the aisle of screens, which puts you about 5 or 6 feet from them. You see a 4K screen, you see the better resolution. Nobody walked down the aisle with 3D glasses on, comparing the different 3D TV's.

4K is not like 3D, or the jump to HDTV for that matter. It's more universally embraceable than 3D, but it doesn't offer the 2 fer that HDTV did, resolution AND aspect ratio. Pan and Scan anyone?

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post #1038 of 1786 Old 08-07-2014, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Mrorange303 View Post

Also I want to point out 4k makes your 3d fad statement void. If you have not seen a good 4k 3d experience than you should watch pacific rim on the hu9000.

1080p in each eye at 60 fps and the brightness of the f8500 turned up. It's a wonderful experience. Wonderful.
did you think it was better on the 4K set or the Plasma?
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post #1039 of 1786 Old 08-07-2014, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post
If I buy a 4k TV it won't be curve ,curve is ridiculous on a 65" TV.
No issues here. Best investment of my TV life.

That curved screen at the theater I watched guardians of the galaxy at was awesome too. I love curved screens.
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post #1040 of 1786 Old 08-07-2014, 02:12 PM
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"This TV has four times the resolution as that one and it's the same price? I'll take it"

You are at the Best Buy, walking down the aisle of screens, which puts you about 5 or 6 feet from them. You see a 4K screen, you see the better resolution. Nobody walked down the aisle with 3D glasses on, comparing the different 3D TV's.

4K is not like 3D, or the jump to HDTV for that matter. It's more universally embraceable than 3D, but it doesn't offer the 2 fer that HDTV did, resolution AND aspect ratio. Pan and Scan anyone?
Some of you are missing the point. I am referring to the business aspect, not the technical aspect. 4K could end up like 3D did. That means not enough interest to convert the entire industry to a 4k model at this time.

And I also disagree with the 3D was not as marketable idea. To me, telling somebody they can view TV in 3D sounds a lot more appealing than trying to seel someone 4K against 1080P on a 55in screen. So IMO, 4K is an even tougher sell.

Yes, the same thing happened to HDTV 15 years ago. But that too is part of the problem here. Most of the average consumers only recently upgraded to HDTV in the past 5-6 years. I don't think they are going to be interested in doing it again so soon. Especially since when they finally got true HD, they were probably blown away. "Good enough" holds a lot of weight here.

Now if people are happy with upconverted HD to 4K, fine. Because outside of internet distribution there is no content available via standard broadcast outlets. And there is currently little to no interest from the traditional broadcasters. Will they just die off. I think they will eventually but it won't be because of failure to adopt 4K.

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post #1041 of 1786 Old 08-07-2014, 02:50 PM
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did you think it was better on the 4K set or the Plasma?
The clarity of the uhd set helps a lot.
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post #1042 of 1786 Old 08-07-2014, 02:54 PM
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If I buy a 4k TV it won't be curve ,curve is ridiculous on a 65" TV.


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No issues here. Best investment of my TV life.

That curved screen at the theater I watched guardians of the galaxy at was awesome too. I love curved screens.


I feel that Leo have a more honest answer about the curve on his oled TV and he is talking about his $9,000 TV.



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post #1043 of 1786 Old 08-07-2014, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post
I feel that Leo have a more honest answer about the curve on his oled TV and he is talking about his $9,000 TV.


http://youtu.be/703bFero5Rg
I feel you believe tv's from different years can't have different solutions that may be better than when Leo did his test.

However I must point out again the 2014 sets are not 2012 or 2013 sets. Let's not try to generalize an issue to a brand for every year.
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post #1044 of 1786 Old 08-07-2014, 03:51 PM
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I feel you believe tv's from different years can't have different solutions that may be better than when Leo did his test.

However I must point out again the 2014 sets are not 2012 or 2013 sets. Let's not try to generalize an issue to a brand for every year.
Are you saying that in 2014 the curve itself is somehow improved from the 2013 curve? All it is, is an unnecessary gimmick to justify a higher price, in the name of style. Curved screens serve no purpose whatsoever when it comes to image quality, with one exception that I discussed here.
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post #1045 of 1786 Old 08-07-2014, 04:10 PM
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Did you saw the video ? it was just his honest opinion about his TV ,he said motion interpolation is a horrible feature because of the soap opera effect,3D doesn't wow him, he doesn't use the hand motion sensor, he doesn't use the glasses MultiView feature, he said that Samsung claim that the curve makes the picture more immersive but he honestly thinks that the curve just make the TV look different and that its just good for sales.he also said that if you are going to buy an expensive TV get the TV professional calibrated.


You talk about this samsung like is the best TV ever made and like nothing is wrong about this TV ,every little thing that may sound against this TV you quickly react.lol

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post #1046 of 1786 Old 08-07-2014, 04:20 PM
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Are you saying that in 2014 the curve itself is somehow improved from the 2013 curve? All it is, is an unnecessary gimmick to justify a higher price, in the name of style. Curved screens serve no purpose whatsoever when it comes to image quality, with one exception that I discussed here.
In your own opinion... The curve did wonders to reduce glare/reflections in my room, so you can add that to your know-it-all list.
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post #1047 of 1786 Old 08-07-2014, 04:26 PM
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In your own opinion... The curve did wonders to reduce glare/reflections in my room, so you can add that to your know-it-all list.
I'm glad that worked out for you.

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post #1048 of 1786 Old 08-07-2014, 05:00 PM
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Still, I can't see 4k going the 3d route (where manufacturers actually stop supporting it) for no other reason than it can't cost much more to produce a 4k panel and it's an easier sell to the typical customer than: here, wear these awful glasses and make your eyes bleed-- it's fun!
And that's precisely why I see no parallel between 4K and 3D. 3D gives me a headache whether in the movies or at home. 4K puts a smile on my face and I have no need to keep a bottle of Tylenol within arm's reach.
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post #1049 of 1786 Old 08-07-2014, 05:05 PM
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4K could end up like 3D did. That means not enough interest to convert the entire industry to a 4k model at this time.
With the emphasis on 'at this time'. I think 4K is doing fine for what is essentially only the 2nd year of its existence in the consumer world. Additionally, it's only been year 2 where the prices are reaching consumer spending levels.

We'll disagree on this one Glimmie, I think 4K makes it. Just for the record, many years ago, I said there was no way 3D was going to survive. My rationale was much like the one that Saige had given.
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post #1050 of 1786 Old 08-07-2014, 05:09 PM
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And that's precisely why I see no parallel between 4K and 3D. 3D gives me a headache whether in the movies or at home. 4K puts a smile on my face and I have no need to keep a bottle of Tylenol within arm's reach.
There's no parallel. UHD/4K is just another resolution, which will keep going up—look at cell-phone pixel densities, seems that the sky's the limit on a big screen.

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