UHD/4K Quandary: To Buy or Not to Buy - Page 55 - AVS Forum
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post #1621 of 1818 Old 08-20-2014, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkamania View Post
Hi, long-time reader, first-time poster.
I just finished renovating my basement. So I am starting from scratch and need a new 55-60" TV, AV receiver and blu-ray player. My budget is around $3000 total for everything. What do I do?

go to here > the "help me choose an LCD" thread > read the sticky >goto last page > post your question there .


Then goto here http://www.avsforum.com/forum/88-audio/ post audio questions in appropriate sub forum might figure 50%TV -50%sound or 60% TV 40% sound decide on TV first then shop for with remaining bal .
you can probably get OK sound for a grand or a little more maybe $399.00 for a modest AVR maybe one of the Dennon AVR or something like that receiver for some entry level speaks add maybe 7- 8 bills
~300.000 for OK budget sub and $100.00 will get you a serviceable BD player you can play with the #'s depending how much for TV don't skimp on the TV
the Sony 60 W850B is decent TV best in class plays above it's price 6x and 7x Samsung's R decent also goto rtings.com and compare sets to the 850B

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post #1622 of 1818 Old 08-20-2014, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
go to here > the "help me choose an LCD" thread > read the sticky >goto last page > post your question there .


Then goto here http://www.avsforum.com/forum/88-audio/ post audio questions in appropriate sub forum might figure 50%TV -50%sound or 60% TV 40% sound decide on TV first then shop for with remaining bal .
you can probably get OK sound for a grand or a little more maybe $399.00 for a modest AVR maybe one of the Dennon AVR or something like that receiver for some entry level speaks add maybe 7- 8 bills
~300.000 for OK budget sub and $100.00 will get you a serviceable BD player you can play with the #'s depending how much for TV don't skimp on the TV
the Sony 60 W850B is decent TV best in class plays above it's price 6x and 7x Samsung's R decent also goto rtings.com and compare sets to the 850B
Thanks for the links, I'll head over there.
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post #1623 of 1818 Old 08-21-2014, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post
Not enough information regarding what you want for a TV. Smart, 3D, UHD, etc. That price will dictate what you might allow for a sound system and Blu-ray player. If you want 3d then Smart will most likely be included. If you want UHD then everything will be included, except for the blu-ray player of course. Examples, UHD 55" $1999 (Sony). No Smart and no 3D 60" for as little as $879 (LG). Smart + 3d 60" as little as $999 (LG). FYI both LG's are highly reviewed on Amazon. HTIB (Home Theater in a Box) have become quite good over the years and offer a big range in price and quality.
Every 2014 broad market Sony TV except the 32" R420 includes Sony smart TV ip connectivity and every 2013 model above the Bravia 40R450a also had smart TV capability . 2014 Sony 3D starts out with the W800B and above models .

My 2013 LG doesn't play nice at all in the dark (poor blacks (grey ) and contrast indicative of LG IPS panels ) my 2013 Sony with an VA panel does play nice in the dark

Best TV review site is here https://www.rtings.com/ has a comparison facility also they aren't fond of LG black levels and contrast and dark room performance either

ROKU works better than Most embedded smart TV those that know or care use those or something else instead like APTV or PS3/4 anyway .

Compare 2014 Sony TV 's http://resources.creativechannel.com...ison_chart.pdf

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post #1624 of 1818 Old 08-21-2014, 05:23 PM
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I'm wondering how my Turner Classic Movies channel is going to look on a 75" 4K television, not to mention my collection of 1940's and '50s DVDs. Some have been re-done in Bluray and they look spectacular but I'm still concerned. I couldn't tell much of a difference when I went from my 42" Sony 720P DLP to my 55" Sony 1080P LCD but that's not much of an increase as it would be to 4K.
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post #1625 of 1818 Old 08-21-2014, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmReverie View Post
My view is the same as presented by Scott, until the standards are set in all areas, tv's and content are released that meet those standards there are better options for spending your money on. In terms of the 4k led's I have seen, all have fallen behind numerous 1080p plasmas in terms of pq, so why would I pay a premium for 4k currently? (note: I am extremely excited for what 4k hopefully will be able to deliver, I just don't think it is worth while yet).
Exactly, I had a difficult decision as I discovered a superior for analog audio processor, the AV8801 and know the HDMI 2.0 version is coming out in December at a significant premium. Then I realized I would want a 4K TV and 4 Atmos Paradigm Sig. S1s, and rake up 10k in expenses easily.

What for? FIOS is nowhere near me, streaming at my current speeds would take an UHD movie an hour to load.

IMHO I have no business upgrading until Vudu, Netflix, and Amazon start streaming 4K Dolby Atmos and Carl Zeiss glass optics laser projectors start competing against each other.

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post #1626 of 1818 Old 08-21-2014, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemiller View Post
I'm wondering how my Turner Classic Movies channel is going to look on a 75" 4K television, not to mention my collection of 1940's and '50s DVDs. Some have been re-done in Bluray and they look spectacular but I'm still concerned. I couldn't tell much of a difference when I went from my 42" Sony 720P DLP to my 55" Sony 1080P LCD but that's not much of an increase as it would be to 4K.
I think you will love the results.
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post #1627 of 1818 Old 08-21-2014, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post
I think you will love the results.

No he wont. There are still a lot of SD channels left and a lot of very old material out there like the channel he is referencing. Upconverting 1080P material to 4k is one thing but anything less than 1080P upconverted to 4k is gonna look like crap. It already looks terrible being upconverted to 1080i or P. Now your gonna ask the 4k tv to add more from less.

A very bad idea............... and basically these tvs are going to be an upconverting set and thats all except for the few that have fast enough internet to watch some Youtube vids...........have fun with that.

Cause that 4k content is really ramping up..........haha
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post #1628 of 1818 Old 08-22-2014, 10:42 AM
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Exclamation A Reply About TCM on a UHD 4k Display

Yesterday AVS member unclemiller wondered how good the Turner Classic Movies channel would look on a 75" UHD 4k TV. Judging by my experience with the TCM-HD Channel, I would say not to expect very good results.

The room that I watch TCM-HD in has a Panasonic TC-58VT25, the set that won the Sept 2010 Value Electronics flat panel shootout. I've noticed that TCM's so called high-definition presentations are quite poor
when compared to HBO-HD, to name just one example. And all 3 major TV networks greatly outclass TCM-HD in picture quality.

Recently TCM presented Lawrence of Arabia. Switching back and forth between TCM's supposed HD version
and the Blu-ray was quite a shocker. Even my wife who isn't picky about PQ, remarked how flat and lacking in contrast the TCM version was compared to Blu-ray. We both easily saw how very much richer the color was on the Blu-ray, too. And the Blu-ray just crushed TCM in renderind fine detail.

Last year while TCM-HD was showing the 1960 black & white classic The Apartment, I put the standard definition DVD version of the flick in my player. Not only did the DVD match TCM-HD in detail, but had better contrast, and simply a better overall, more vivid picture.

So just don't expect a UHD 4k TV to work miracles with the sort of sub-par quality that TCM-HD provides.
In my view, the only thing that TCM-HD gets right is the aspect ratio.
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post #1629 of 1818 Old 08-22-2014, 11:06 AM
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I think that no matter what channel you're watching the overall PQ will most likely be worse than even a standard DVD if you're talking about an older movie, especially a B&W movie. The problem lies at the feet of compression. An older B&W movie remastered to blu-ray should have no compression artifacts and thus look darn good. I doubt a 4k set will make it (BR DVD) look better but I suppose it's possible with a standard B&W DVD because of a better on board video processor.
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post #1630 of 1818 Old 08-22-2014, 11:43 AM
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Old Black & White Movies On HDNet Movies Channel

Actually old B&W movies can, and are, presented in much better than DVD quality by venues like HDNet Movies, a channel whose employees obviously care a lot more about PQ than those at TCM.

When, about 18 months ago I saw the original 3:To Yuma, a 1957 B&W movie on HDNet Movies, the high def picture was stunning. I kid you not when I say that it actually compared favorably with the black & white Schindler's List on Blu-ray.

The thing is, HDNet Movies was founded by Mark Cuban who has been a big booster for HD, and is a picture quality fanatic.

On the other hand TCM's viewership skews quite old, and the powers that be at that network probably think that most of its audience can't perceive better than DVD quality anyway. I even know a 43 year old woman whose eyesight is good enough to play sports but always thought DVDs looked as good as Blu-rays on her 44" HDTV. She finally appreciated the difference when I showed her the Les Miserables Blu-ray on my 73" TV.

Anyway, unlike TCM-HD, channels like HDNet Movies and HBO-HD would probably look very,very good on a UHD 4k TV
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post #1631 of 1818 Old 08-22-2014, 03:06 PM
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I was afraid of that judging by the responses. Yeah, TCM-HD is sub-par in all aspects. I can't tell the difference between SD and HD movies at all. I agree totally with what you guys are saying. As I never went for the whole 3D thing, I doubt I will go for the 4K thing anytime soon. Thanks for the replies.
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post #1632 of 1818 Old 08-22-2014, 10:11 PM
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Do you have to have the Onkyo receivers with the proper coding in order get proper 4k content with your TV? Or can any receiver with "4k pass thru" work just as effectively?
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post #1633 of 1818 Old 08-23-2014, 08:29 PM
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Sadly, TV Networks In No Rush For 4k

It's interesting to compare today's situation waiting for 4k broadcasts, with the launch of HD in 1998.

In August of 1998 the first HDTVs were sold to consumers. And only 3 months later, in Nov. 98, already a few stations around the country were doing some limited HD broadcasting.

What a contrast with today, where we are approaching a year and a half of UHD TV availability, and standards for a possible UHD broadcast system haven't even been agreed upon yet.

I would bet that 3 years from today we'll see less than 6 hours a week of UHD broadcasting from CBS, NBC, and ABC combined. Or maybe the networks may have decided that the added expense of UHD, will have them still broadcasting no UHD at all.

Sure hope the Blu-ray group gets something going with UHD, but am not very hopeful since Sony recently said that streaming and downloading is replacing physical media even faster than they had anticipated. To the powers that be I'm afraid that investing major bucks developing UHD Blu-ray just doesn't seem worth it. What a shame, I love Blu-ray, and buy a lot of them.
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post #1634 of 1818 Old 08-24-2014, 12:22 AM
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Digital killed the radio star
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post #1635 of 1818 Old 08-24-2014, 01:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemiller View Post
I'm wondering how my Turner Classic Movies channel is going to look on a 75" 4K television, not to mention my collection of 1940's and '50s DVDs. Some have been re-done in Bluray and they look spectacular but I'm still concerned. I couldn't tell much of a difference when I went from my 42" Sony 720P DLP to my 55" Sony 1080P LCD but that's not much of an increase as it would be to 4K.
That's not a 4k/resolution question it's a size question. 1080p or 4k-- it won't make a whit of difference-- size and screen proximity are your enemies in that scenario.
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post #1636 of 1818 Old 08-24-2014, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
That's not a 4k/resolution question it's a size question. 1080p or 4k-- it won't make a whit of difference-- size and screen proximity are your enemies in that scenario.
But the 4K viewed closer even when displaying DVDs will have less of a "screen door" effect than a 1080p TV at the same distance and screen size - if you could see the effect in the 1080p TV of the same size at that distance.

Last edited by Joe Bloggs; 08-24-2014 at 09:26 AM.
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post #1637 of 1818 Old 08-24-2014, 10:45 AM
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But the 4K viewed closer even when displaying DVDs will have less of a "screen door" effect than a 1080p TV at the same distance and screen size - if you could see the effect in the 1080p TV of the same size at that distance.
Meh. Not an issue with a quality display. I've stated this before and I stand by it that perceptible pixel grid or gap is more an issue with certain technologies and cheaper models. I've seen some large LCDs and plasmas that have horrendous gap but they are generally the bottom of the barrel as far as quality.
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post #1638 of 1818 Old 08-24-2014, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahb75
It's interesting to compare today's situation waiting for 4k broadcasts, with the launch of HD in 1998.

In August of 1998 the first HDTVs were sold to consumers. And only 3 months later, in Nov. 98, already a few stations around the country were doing some limited HD broadcasting.
In 2001 when I got my first Sony FD HD Wega HD set their wasn't a lot to watch

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahb75
What a contrast with today, where we are approaching a year and a half of UHD TV availability, and standards for a possible UHD broadcast system haven't even been agreed upon yet.
Could be a long while ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahb75
I would bet that 3 years from today we'll see less than 6 hours a week of UHD broadcasting from CBS, NBC, and ABC combined. Or maybe the networks may have decided that the added expense of UHD, will have them still broadcasting no UHD at all.
Probably no HD OTA at all just on demand digital re transmission (CATV/SAT) and IPTV . Maybe Super bowl OTA in 4K
where the markets (if any ) have the equipment ? Hard to do without regulated broadcast standards and all .

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahb75
Sure hope the Blu-ray group gets something going with UHD, but am not very hopeful since Sony recently said that streaming and downloading is replacing physical media even faster than they had anticipated. To the powers that be I'm afraid that investing major bucks developing UHD Blu-ray just doesn't seem worth it. What a shame, I love Blu-ray, and buy a lot of them.
Being worked on presently with new multi layer high density Blue Ray discs some data discs are up to 250- 500GB now

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
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Last edited by tubetwister; 08-24-2014 at 04:22 PM.
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post #1639 of 1818 Old 08-27-2014, 09:00 AM
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Question About Possible UHD On Disc

^ About those 250-500 GB discs being developed. Thought that I'd read somewhere that they are not intended for consumers, but actually for commercial/professional use only.

Anyone else have any info to offer about this?
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post #1640 of 1818 Old 08-27-2014, 09:33 AM
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Smile The Value Electronics Shootout and UHD Yes or No

Am wondering if many AVS members who were considering getting an UHD display, are now having 2nd thoughts after seeing the results of the V.E shootout.

Seems to me that waiting for OLED UHD TVs would be a wise course to take, giving a given viewer, the best of both worlds.

The 73-inch Mits DLP in our theater room recently developed problems, so a few days ago, a Sharp LC-80LE650U 80 inch set was delivered to replace it.

Well transferred Blu-rays are stunning on this unit, so I will have no trouble patiently
waiting for OLED UHD TVs, of sufficient size, to someday become available. The main advantage for me, when that happens, will be the ability to see an even more immersive picture since UHD's smaller pixels will allow for closer seating without screen door effect. To me, that is UHD's greatest value, followed, of course, by greater detail with the right source material.
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post #1641 of 1818 Old 08-27-2014, 09:40 AM
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get the LG 77 inch 4k down to under a $100 an inch and they will sell millions of them
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post #1642 of 1818 Old 08-27-2014, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toomanytvstosee View Post
get the LG 77 inch 4k down to under a $100 an inch and they will sell millions of them
I doubt you will find multi-millions of people interested in a 77" display even in $6500 range. Not only is that still a lot of money but you would require a lot of room for such a large foot print. Regardless of the price you will still find a small demand based on size alone. Even store space would be stressed to show off this size. Supply and demand will always dictate sales and regardless of supply I don't forsee the demand for TV's of this size and price tag.
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post #1643 of 1818 Old 08-27-2014, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahb75 View Post
^ About those 250-500 GB discs being developed. Thought that I'd read somewhere that they are not intended for consumers, but actually for commercial/professional use only.

Anyone else have any info to offer about this?
Sony and Panasonic are developing 300GB, 500GB, and 1TB Blu-Ray discs, intended primarily for archival storage (no currently available consumer BD drives can read these multi-layer, double-sided discs). However, the BDA is currently testing 300 GB discs (one company has already performed some test pressings), and the first titles are expected to ship by Christmas 2015. On the broadcast front, both Comcast Cable and DirecTV are promising UHD content by the end of 2014/beginning of 2015:

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computi...discs/#!bLbcOU

OTA UHD broadcasts in the USA are still many years away, as UHD compatibility is not expected until the ATSC 3.0 standards are adopted (finalization and implementation of the ATSC 2.0 standards has not even occurred yet):

http://www.multichannel.com/blog/i-w...n-cable/374573
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post #1644 of 1818 Old 08-27-2014, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemiller View Post
I'm wondering how my Turner Classic Movies channel is going to look on a 75" 4K television, not to mention my collection of 1940's and '50s DVDs. Some have been re-done in Bluray and they look spectacular but I'm still concerned. I couldn't tell much of a difference when I went from my 42" Sony 720P DLP to my 55" Sony 1080P LCD but that's not much of an increase as it would be to 4K.

I purchased the Bourne Identity DVD in Best Buy a couple of months back and had them play it on a Blu Ray Player for the Sony UHD and then the Samsung UHD. Here are the results, the Sony jerked the picture and some of the picture pixels pixelized. The Samsung did better about the pixelization, but did stutter at times. When adding 20 pixels for every one, it is hard to play DVDs as well as playing Blu Rays on a 4K UHD TV. The HDTVD is far superior in playing back DVDs. I have no intention of buying Blu Rays for the DVDs I own. So I won't be buying UHD TV any time soon.
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post #1645 of 1818 Old 08-27-2014, 11:24 AM
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well

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post
I doubt you will find multi-millions of people interested in a 77" display even in $6500 range. Not only is that still a lot of money but you would require a lot of room for such a large foot print. Regardless of the price you will still find a small demand based on size alone. Even store space would be stressed to show off this size. Supply and demand will always dictate sales and regardless of supply I don't forsee the demand for TV's of this size and price tag.

In a world with 7 billion people, a few million units seems plausible. Have you stepped into a best buy lately. Plenty of space for the 85 4k they show and even the 90 inch sharp
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post #1646 of 1818 Old 08-27-2014, 11:52 AM
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In a world with 7 billion people, a few million units seems plausible. Have you stepped into a best buy lately. Plenty of space for the 85 4k they show and even the 90 inch sharp
Yes but a very small fraction of that 7 billion people can afford a $6500 TV or enjoy a suitable living space to house it. Only the largest Best Buys will display a TV of that size (Magnolia Stores). You would stand a better chace of seeing 80" display at a Costco. Once you look outside of the US the potential buyers for these size sets dwindle rapidly. I love these big boys but I don't see the demand regardless of the price.
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post #1647 of 1818 Old 08-28-2014, 11:17 AM
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UHD - More to come

I would not purchase a UHD display just now. Not only is Scott Wilkinson correct on all his points, but wait for a big change to be shown at CES next January that he hasn't mentioned.

Marshall
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post #1648 of 1818 Old 08-28-2014, 01:18 PM
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I've waited a long time for a new TV and it's always "don't buy it now" or "wait a little while longer until _______________ hits shelves". It's my time to buy and the only thing that will delay me in obtaining a 65AX900, is if Panasonic prices them too high. If that happens and it doesn't drop before Black Friday, then I might just end up waiting until after CES but I'll do so kicking and screaming!
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post #1649 of 1818 Old 08-28-2014, 03:00 PM
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I just read today (USA TODAY) that Samsung and LG have commited to jumping into the 4k LCD game in a big way. I would wait a few months and see what this does to pricing. If you can't wait consider buying from Costco because they have a 3 month return policy.
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post #1650 of 1818 Old 09-04-2014, 07:18 PM
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I'm torn between getting an LG OLED 1080p or a sony UHD. Saw the LG at Best buy and was VERY impressed with those black levels.
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