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post #61 of 213 Old 08-07-2014, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by thxman View Post
What I meant is that I won't buy but rent until I see Atmos on BD. Then I will buy BDs again (with Atmos). This prevents the double dip syndrome.

Since I use D-Box, I am well versed with lesser audio formats on rental discs. You bring up a good point about Atmos and Redbox.
Bah, need 2160P media!

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post #62 of 213 Old 08-07-2014, 06:15 PM
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If Atmos is scalable, would height objects be placed as a phantom image between your existing 5.1 or 7.1 setup? If new atmos enabled processors have additional room position info about the speakers then more speakers may not be required at all to get better object localization.

I read the white paper as saying that this is a replacement for PLiix(z), except that it can scale down instead of up. This is vastly superior and seems to be a win/win for everyone. Wides and front heights that some people already have installed are mapped into to the 24.1.10 design. Processors just need the capability to know their physical location and I hope manufacturers implement this into channel setup.

I am about to renovate the basement for a home theater and probably won't install ceiling speakers until there is clearity on the new av processor features and media that actually uses ceiling heights. I will probably run wire and follow the spec for 1/4 way in (width and depth from walls) positioning for the 4 speakers.

I plan on positioning my side or rear surrounds at 2' above ear level in the 7'x12'x23' room because of a multi row(floor lougers, standard home theater seats, and rear bar seats) configuration. That will leave very little room between the ceiling speakers and ears. Maybe a set of front heights and higher rear surrounds could be mapped as front and rear ceiling heights to a processor and run in 5.1.4... who knows how all this will sound.

All I know is that it will be interesting to try and create a smooth transition between all of these speaker types/sizes. Let alone, getting a standard 7.1 audio system sound balanced away from the MLP.

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post #63 of 213 Old 08-07-2014, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Sean Spamilton View Post
Totally off topic, but great avatar! 'The ape selfie' ... I had a laugh about that yesterday on Reddit. http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...yright-artists

As far as atmos goes, I'm going to let the technology flesh itself out for a couple of years before it becomes any kind of factor in my purchasing decisions.
Yeah, I'm definitely jumping in, just not sure when. Ideally I would like to implement Atmos 11.4.6 (or 13.4.6) right away, but I'm not confident that the hardware I want at the quality level I'd like will be available in the next month, forcing me to wait. I don't think it will take a couple of years to flush out, though!
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post #64 of 213 Old 08-07-2014, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
Yeah, I'm definitely jumping in, just not sure when. Ideally I would like to implement Atmos 11.4.6 (or 13.4.6) right away, but I'm not confident that the hardware I want at the quality level I'd like will be available in the next month, forcing me to wait. I don't think it will take a couple of years to flush out, though!
I would wait until at least next year - when the new Atmos receivers are actually HDCP 2.2 compliant to properly integrate with 4k / UHD encrypted formats. (which this years aren't).
New HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2, XT32, ATMOS, 4K/60 AVR or pre/pro
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post #65 of 213 Old 08-07-2014, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by WhiskeyConway View Post
If Atmos is scalable, would height objects be placed as a phantom image between your existing 5.1 or 7.1 setup? If new atmos enabled processors have additional room position info about the speakers then more speakers may not be required at all to get better object localization.

I read the white paper as saying that this is a replacement for PLiix(z), except that it can scale down instead of up. This is vastly superior and seems to be a win/win for everyone. Wides and front heights that some people already have installed are mapped into to the 24.1.10 design. Processors just need the capability to know their physical location and I hope manufacturers implement this into channel setup.

I am about to renovate the basement for a home theater and probably won't install ceiling speakers until there is clearity on the new av processor features and media that actually uses ceiling heights. I will probably run wire and follow the spec for 1/4 way in (width and depth from walls) positioning for the 4 speakers.

I plan on positioning my side or rear surrounds at 2' above ear level in the 7'x12'x23' room because of a multi row(floor lougers, standard home theater seats, and rear bar seats) configuration. That will leave very little room between the ceiling speakers and ears. Maybe a set of front heights and higher rear surrounds could be mapped as front and rear ceiling heights to a processor and run in 5.1.4... who knows how all this will sound.

All I know is that it will be interesting to try and create a smooth transition between all of these speaker types/sizes. Let alone, getting a standard 7.1 audio system sound balanced away from the MLP.
If you only have a 5.1 or 7.1 setup there is no rendering. You get the 5.1 or 7.1 down mix that is encoded on the disc. Hight channels usually end up in the side surrounds when you downmix an Atmos master. So you will get that imaging, but nothing beyond it.
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post #66 of 213 Old 08-07-2014, 07:14 PM
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As far as atmos goes, I'm going to let the technology flesh itself out for a couple of years before it becomes any kind of factor in my purchasing decisions.
This is also my point of view. I don't think, that the first line-up of AVRs and pre/pros, will show the full potential of Atmos,

Agreed!
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post #67 of 213 Old 08-07-2014, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Ganymed4 View Post
This is something, I cannot understand. The idea of - I call this - computer generated sound is nice but is not one person skeptical about the sole use of DSPs for sound generation? From an audiophile standpoint - I am not necessarily - and my own experience, I can only say, that switching off the DSPs gives you the best sound reproduction. I have seen tests with a rectangular wave on an oscilloscope with DSPs enabled and disabled. Man this rectangular shape became quite jaggy with DSP on and not so much like a rectangular any more.
Is nobody here concerned about this? Plus we are told to use reflected sound, which should be best??? On schematic drawings this always looks nice but in real??? Also the speaker document says that HVAC outlets on the ceiling or chandeliers will have minimal influence on the Atmos effect - really???
I mean there will be at least small additional reflections, comb filter effects etc. I mean in an idealized world, well...

These are only the basic questions, I am asking myself. I only hope one thing and this is that the AVR and pre/pro makers have learned their lesson about processing power and DSPs. For Atmos, I am sure, you need more than enough...

Just my two cents...
I think it's smart for people to wait one while this shakes out. That's just prudent. There are infinite examples of early adopters overpaying for what is quickly proven as inferior to the evolution of said format/product type two years later. That said, this isn't the type of thing that will satisfy the fussy audiophile that's more concerned about how the system is arrayed and wired vs. the end effect. I think we need to shelve our 20 year old concepts of how DSP is deployed. These aren't DSP-A1 Yamahas we're talking about here.

I'll sit on this for about a year and see what the market is saying then. For now, the promise is exciting and really, the HT audio world needed a useful shakeup.
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post #68 of 213 Old 08-07-2014, 08:53 PM
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I'm underwhelmed with the information presented in this white paper. The only 'new' information is the 90 x 90 recommended dispersion pattern for the in-ceiling speakers.
Agreed. I would've liked to see more about the angle, distance, and SPL requirements for "elevation" speakers.


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I want height speakers for conveying ambiance of a high-ceiling concert hall. I don't play games or watch action movies with localizable height sounds -- these just don't happen to be interests of mine.***
Ditto. I am in the process of getting my living room wired for multichannel audio (and a TV) and while I did run an extra set of leads to the front L/R and rear-surround speakers for future Atmos speakers, my main interest is actually in the Dolby Surround matrixing. I find DPL2 to often be very convincing on music. Sometimes better than the discrete mix (e.g. "Brothers in Arms"). If Atmos height speakers can further enhance the feeling of space in good music recordings, it will be well worth it IMO. Otherwise it'll be just a gimmick for the Disney movies my daughter will invariably watch when she's old enough to watch movies...

Also, an Atmos AVR or pre-pro would not be in my system until someone releases one with competent room correction (Trinnov, Dirac, ARC, etc.).

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This is something, I cannot understand. The idea of - I call this - computer generated sound is nice but is not one person skeptical about the sole use of DSPs for sound generation? From an audiophile standpoint - I am not necessarily - and my own experience, I can only say, that switching off the DSPs gives you the best sound reproduction.
Modern DSP's lead to much higher fidelity reproduction. A system that does not at least incorporate modern processing to smooth out the frequency response the modal region is a waste of money and gear.

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post #69 of 213 Old 08-07-2014, 09:01 PM
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If you only have a 5.1 or 7.1 setup there is no rendering. You get the 5.1 or 7.1 down mix that is encoded on the disc. Hight channels usually end up in the side surrounds when you downmix an Atmos master. So you will get that imaging, but nothing beyond it.
You are right. There is a flat 5.1 and 7.1 sound mix already prepared in the Atmos master.

Lots of info was learned watching a YouTube video on a dolby atmos movie sound mixing console. I don't know the company or product or understand much about the product, but it does describe how they position sounds and how it works for mixing.

Overview - Harrison Dolby Atmos Integration Video…:

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post #70 of 213 Old 08-07-2014, 09:26 PM
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That's a very cool video.
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post #71 of 213 Old 08-07-2014, 10:26 PM
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Very cool video indeed.

Quick question to those of you who've heard the Dolby Atmos in theater:

A friend and I for the first time went to see an Atmos feature (guardians of the galaxy) in their Ultrascreen DLX theater which was supposed to be an Atmos theater... I did notice a lot of speakers on the ceiling and walls. But... I didn't hear the Atmos effect... to me my 5.1 system at home actually doesn't sound too different (4x chorus II's). So here's the question: Is the Atmos sound difference subtle? My friend and I both didn't notice anything special about the sound... I'm curious if our ears just weren't capable of deciphering the Atmos sound or if possibly the Theater messed up and didn't turn on Atmos signal or something like that?

I'm going to try another theater just to make sure, but I'm guessing something must be up.
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post #72 of 213 Old 08-07-2014, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Aras_Volodka View Post
Very cool video indeed.

Quick question to those of you who've heard the Dolby Atmos in theater:

A friend and I for the first time went to see an Atmos feature (guardians of the galaxy) in their Ultrascreen DLX theater which was supposed to be an Atmos theater... I did notice a lot of speakers on the ceiling and walls. But... I didn't hear the Atmos effect... to me my 5.1 system at home actually doesn't sound too different (4x chorus II's). So here's the question: Is the Atmos sound difference subtle? My friend and I both didn't notice anything special about the sound... I'm curious if our ears just weren't capable of deciphering the Atmos sound or if possibly the Theater messed up and didn't turn on Atmos signal or something like that?

I'm going to try another theater just to make sure, but I'm guessing something must be up.
Spoiler alert.........




At about five minutes in when Pratt is on the planet surface where it is raining..... That should be really obviously coming from above.
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post #73 of 213 Old 08-07-2014, 11:24 PM
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I am SUPER excited for dolby atmos!


in honesty, I'm still running 5.1. 7.1 wasn't worth the hassle in my room, and I don't have the space for front wides either, so a 9.1 wasn't gonna happen anyway. but that's NOT the point of atmos.


atmos isn't about having more channels. it's a totally different method of conveying audio, and THAT'S what I'm excited about. you have 5 speakers? fine, atmos will make the most of it. you have 15 speakers, great, atmos will work with that too!


I love that it's so easy to implement and even easier to upgrade. the BD's you buy today with your 5.1 system won't need to be rebought in 6yrs when you want to get the most out of your 9.2 system. as a format, it's awesome!


I've been putting off buying a new avr for awhile, and now I know why. I was waiting for atmos!


now I don't know how much I'm going to see any improvement without adding speakers, but that's ok. because I know that I CAN add speakers whenever I want and everything will still work awesome.


as for the up-firing speakers, I'm not sure why you'd doubt their abilities. I'm certain they will work as advertised. BUT, not in room that have sound treatments on the ceiling. but then I suspect that ppl who love audio enough to do that can install ceiling speakers like they should. the up-firing models will be reserved for the ppl that want simplicity, or live in places that won't allow you to do anything to the walls/ceiling.


either way, I don't see ANY downside to atmos. at worst, it's as good as the best dedicated channel recording. and it shouldn't take much to get more out of it than what we have now.
Somebody hadn't been paying attention to the disappointing news out there so far on consumer atmos. You are describing atmos as we gleefully anticipated, as the cinema uses. Not as being currently implemented for home users.

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post #74 of 213 Old 08-08-2014, 07:34 AM
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Somebody hadn't been paying attention to the disappointing news out there so far on consumer atmos. You are describing atmos as we gleefully anticipated, as the cinema uses. Not as being currently implemented for home users.
What is the disappointing news? 5.1.4 and 7.1.4 is a good standard "starter" discussion for home receivers. Reflective speakers are just "an option" to make it even acceptable to some homes. The number of speakers used is dependent on whoever is making the av processor. From the white paper, it seems to scale 24.1.10 lossless directional audio down to your home theater speaker configuration.

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Originally Posted by Dolby-Atmos-for-the-Home-Theater.pdf
"Dolby has extended the Dolby TrueHD format, used in Blu-ray discs, to allow the format to carry Dolby Atmos content. Before Dolby Atmos, Dolby TrueHD included lossless support for
channel-based audio, such as 5.1 and 7.1. We have added a fourth substream for Dolby Atmos sound. This substream represents a losslessly encoded fully object-based mix."

"What happens when you play a Dolby Atmos film, whether from a Blu-ray Disc™ or a streaming video service, is quite remarkable. When you set up
your Dolby Atmos enabled A/V receiver (AVR), you’ll have told your receiver how many speakers you have and where they’re located. Your receiver will decide—in real time—
exactly which speakers it needs to use from moment to moment in order to reproduce the sounds.."

"For high-end home theaters, a 7.1.4 system (a traditional 7.1-channel-based layout with four overhead or Dolby Atmos enabled speakers) will provide a great listening experience. If
you’re ambitious, though, Dolby Atmos can support home theater systems with up to 34 speakers in a 24.1.10 configuration: 24 speakers on the floor and 10 overhead speakers.
However, Dolby Atmos content is not tied to any specific playback configuration. Whetheryou have a full 7.1.4 system, a 5.1.2 system, or a 24.1.10 supersystem, your receiver will
get the same content and play it back in a way that takes full advantage of your specific setup.
"

"...a Dolby Atmos system can support many other configurations you may already have in your home. For instance, Dolby Atmos supports the standard “wide” speaker positions on the floor and the
“front vertical height” positions
usually found on the top of the front wall, as well as many other speaker positions."
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post #75 of 213 Old 08-08-2014, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
Spoiler alert.........




At about five minutes in when Pratt is on the planet surface where it is raining..... That should be really obviously coming from above.
I do remember that... the plumes seemed to have "height" (extremely subtle) but that was about it... I didn't hear rain from overhead I'm going to give the Atmos theaters another couple of go's with different films to see if maybe it's just me.

I was actually looking into being an early adopter because I need a new AVR anyway... so I wanted to test it out in the cinema. Sadly I think the other theater that does Atmos in my area is already removing GOTG from their Atmos enabled screen.
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post #76 of 213 Old 08-08-2014, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by WhiskeyConway View Post
What is the disappointing news? 5.1.4 and 7.1.4 is a good standard "starter" discussion for home receivers. Reflective speakers are just "an option" to make it even acceptable to some homes. The number of speakers used is dependent on whoever is making the av processor. From the white paper, it seems to scale 24.1.10 lossless directional audio down to your home theater speaker configuration.
Atmos has no idea exactly where you placed your speakers from what we've been told so far for the home theater consumer anyway. It isn't like Atmos knows the surround speaker is placed at 86* and 28* of elevation vs. 120* and 45* of elevation. It isn't truly 3d object level mapping of speakers for home theater - like it was billed for professional cinema use. It's basically just extra channels. Dedicated streams for ceiling speakers that have no idea of exact elevation and angle. We aren't getting what the theaters are getting on the consumer line from what I've digested so far. We are basically getting more channels. (not a bad thing) but not really what Atmos represents in the theaters either. The object level authoring is reserved for the studio devopment team, but this kind of excitement

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maybe my 7 speakers will be fr, c, fl, rr, rc, rl, and one overhead speaker. maybe it'll be something else. doesn't matter because the audio isn't programmed per channel, so my avr can make it work.
is misplaced. That's what I was hoping for too. That would be revolutionary. A couple more dedicated channel tracks is cool, but not revolutionary, and way less exciting.
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post #77 of 213 Old 08-08-2014, 09:06 AM
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I too want more specific info on ceiling height minimums. For folks with home theaters in their old school standard height basements (like me) those ceilings are probably about 7 feet high or slightly less. I purchased a new 2014 Onkyo receiver (before the Atmos news was announced) for UHD compatibility and was relieved to hear that it will get a software update next month to add Atmos. So, I'm very keen to audition this at home. Due to the low ceiling height and the fact that I don't want to tear out the ceiling at this time, I'll be going with the "angled up" add on speakers. That is, if Atmos is doable with an under 8 feet ceiling or not.
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post #78 of 213 Old 08-08-2014, 09:28 AM
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Atmos has no idea exactly where you placed your speakers from what we've been told so far for the home theater consumer anyway. It isn't like Atmos knows the surround speaker is placed at 86* and 28* of elevation vs. 120* and 45* of elevation. It isn't truly 3d object level mapping of speakers for home theater - like it was billed for professional cinema use. It's basically just extra channels. Dedicated streams for ceiling speakers that have no idea of exact elevation and angle. We aren't getting what the theaters are getting on the consumer line from what I've digested so far. We are basically getting more channels. (not a bad thing) but not really what Atmos represents in the theaters either. The object level authoring is reserved for the studio devopment team, but this kind of excitement



is misplaced. That's what I was hoping for too. That would be revolutionary. A couple more dedicated channel tracks is cool, but not revolutionary, and way less exciting.
I disagree with many of your points.. But I won't have time to reply to your post in detail for a couple of days.

Your assumptions about how the cinema system and home are different are not correct.
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post #79 of 213 Old 08-08-2014, 09:39 AM
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Atmos for the New Home Theater Builder

I just purchased a new home so I'm excited about Dolby Atmos since I need to purchase new equipment anyway. My home theater room is windowless but tight with a space that's 17' long, 12' wide, and 8' 9" high. I plan to put 4 Atmos speakers in the ceiling and use a projector to throw the image from the back of the room to a screen on the front.
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post #80 of 213 Old 08-08-2014, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
The only 'new' information is the 90 x 90 recommended dispersion pattern for the in-ceiling speakers.
For the vast majority of conventional 2-way surrounds, the recommendation is more or less meaningless, as there is no definable dispersion; that of each driver varies continuously with freq.

Horn/waveguide and properly designed coaxials have controlled directivity (constant dispersion across a range of freq) through the critical midrange.

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Overview - Harrison Dolby Atmos Integration Video…: http://youtu.be/bN85WR4pfbA
Very cool.

Do the consoles come with gremlins? There were several places in the video where the sliders and joysticks seemed to be moving of their own accord.

So how do mixers actually make the sound movement correspond with the action?

Is it a feat of hand/eye coordination, where the mixer watches the film while controlling the sound from the console?

If so, seems like a more intuitive way would be something like Wii, where the mixer moves his hand within a predefined box corresponding to the theater walls.

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[B]Atmos has no idea exactly where you placed your speakers from what we've been told so far for the home theater consumer anyway. It isn't like Atmos knows the surround speaker is placed at 86* and 28* of elevation vs. 120* and 45* of elevation. It isn't truly 3d object level mapping of speakers for home theater - like it was billed for professional cinema use.
True, but the closer a person is able to put their speakers to the nominal recommended positions, the closer it will be to that ideal.

That's if we really know what those nominal angles are; I imagine they would be in the center of the recommended range.

I haven't looked at the available Atmos AVR's documentation; anyone know if they do?

Noah

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post #81 of 213 Old 08-08-2014, 10:07 AM
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that already exists in some shape or form: Onkyo's NR1000 series:
http://www.audioholics.com/news/onky...iew_fullscreen

although i wouldn't equate it to computers. i would do one bit better. first thing i'd like to see is processor handle all the audio processing, but actually not handle the speaker placement&room acoustic measurements like audssey or competitor versions. i'd like to processor to send it out to a preamp that will then calculate your room and what it sounds like acoustically using 3D microphones. then map your speakers wherever it is physically according to the microphone. then allow you to adjust it so it has your physical room layout mapped inside of the computer. your room is now virutalized and physically inside of the object model with speaker placements, while the mic will get you close, you can adjust it physically to exactly where it. using that information, the processor will when route/steer atmos/mda home versions to wherever object-oriented audio needs to be all over the room.

thus the pre-amp will be divorced from the processor and play a different role. the processor will accept all inputs, but preamp will figure out how many speakers where it is and how to make it all work. from thereon, the pre-amp will send digital audio signals to amp-blocks, which will then translate that to analog audio. the actual D/A will take place at those mono-block amplifiers. either design it to daisy-chain similar to thunderbolt connection that apples uses or fan it all to through a 'hub' of sorts. basically this will destroy the whole notion of # of channels locked down by an amplifier.

think about it. when you purchase an amp today you have to make some decisisions about processor/preamp as well. if you have a processor that will output 7.1 then that's all you can get. or 9.1 and so on. but if you remove that from the equation then you no longer need to buy the # of amps or channels based on your processor. you can just go crazy. with this design, you can buy 32mono amps and power all 32 speakers or buy a all in one amp that powers all 32 speakers (good luck w/that) or just get 10 or 20 whatever your heart's desire. everything after this newfangled pre-amp designs means you decouple # of your speaker and your room design entirely into the consumer's hands and not the mfr!

of course this whole design/revamp mimght not happen until 2020 or after maybe by then we will no longer be watching 2D/3D video but interact it with it like TNG's holodeck

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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
I think that's probably a good thing. not only is it less wasteful, it should be cheaper for all of us.


could you imagine if they went the PC route, and you could upgrade the processor, or the 'sound card' and get more channels...

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post #82 of 213 Old 08-08-2014, 10:41 AM
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I disagree with many of your points.. But I won't have time to reply to your post in detail for a couple of days.

Your assumptions about how the cinema system and home are different are not correct.
I think my quotes from the Atmos white paper were sufficient.

The method that av processors are defining speaker placement is the only item that I have not seen by av processor manufacturers. The exact height and angle changes with every seat in your small room, so what's the big fuss.

Objects off screen will pan left to overhead to right, or front to overhead to back. Atmos just fills the overhead void and adds another location for sound. This is all on content creators and av processor manufacturers to use the guidelines and features available for the metadata. The 4 height channel placement gets something started.
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post #83 of 213 Old 08-08-2014, 10:47 AM
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Somebody hadn't been paying attention to the disappointing news out there so far on consumer atmos. You are describing atmos as we gleefully anticipated, as the cinema uses. Not as being currently implemented for home users.
what did I miss? is atmos NOT a location based system, where the processor decides what sounds go to what speakers? cause THAT'S the part that excites me.


what we do with those x,y,z coordinates today isn't as important as what we can do with them in the future. the fact they are x,y,z coordinates is the important part.

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post #84 of 213 Old 08-08-2014, 10:50 AM
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I too want more specific info on ceiling height minimums. For folks with home theaters in their old school standard height basements (like me) those ceilings are probably about 7 feet high or slightly less. I purchased a new 2014 Onkyo receiver (before the Atmos news was announced) for UHD compatibility and was relieved to hear that it will get a software update next month to add Atmos. So, I'm very keen to audition this at home. Due to the low ceiling height and the fact that I don't want to tear out the ceiling at this time, I'll be going with the "angled up" add on speakers. That is, if Atmos is doable with an under 8 feet ceiling or not.
In home theater geeks interview with Jones He said it doesn't have to be exactly 8 feet... but within reason. If you are a few inches below you'll be fine. If your ceiling is only 7 feet tall I'm guessing you'd be fine but below that would be a stretch I'd think.

One possible solution depending on how wide/long your room is, would be to place the upwards firing speakers on a lower surface so that the sound projects to the right spot... unless if there is some drawback that I'm not aware of?
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post #85 of 213 Old 08-08-2014, 10:58 AM
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Atmos has no idea exactly where you placed your speakers from what we've been told so far for the home theater consumer anyway. It isn't like Atmos knows the surround speaker is placed at 86* and 28* of elevation vs. 120* and 45* of elevation. It isn't truly 3d object level mapping of speakers for home theater - like it was billed for professional cinema use. It's basically just extra channels. Dedicated streams for ceiling speakers that have no idea of exact elevation and angle. We aren't getting what the theaters are getting on the consumer line from what I've digested so far. We are basically getting more channels. (not a bad thing) but not really what Atmos represents in the theaters either. The object level authoring is reserved for the studio devopment team, but this kind of excitement



is misplaced. That's what I was hoping for too. That would be revolutionary. A couple more dedicated channel tracks is cool, but not revolutionary, and way less exciting.
again, I'm not sure where you're seeing this. even my current receiver 'knows' where my speakers are. this isn't something that's controlled by dolby, or atmos, it's controlled by the processor. the assumption is, if the audio is encoded as a location based signal(and I haven't seen where it's not??), then they can design processors to take advantage of that. it may not be the first or second gen, but at some point, it CAN happen.


this would all be done through the auto calibration features of course. set up your mic in your listening position and walk away. I know determining distance is a piece of cake, and if they tweaked the mic(they'd need at least two points of reference) determining angle would also be possible. once you know distance and angle, you basically know the location of the speaker. this is NOT something dolby or atmos controls though. that's 100% on the manufacturers of the avr/processor/whatever.


so, my apologies if I'm missed it, but where is it confirmed that atmo is a channel based and not location based audio stream?


if they are NOT dedicated channel tracks, and it's still location based at the source. THAT'S AWESOME!! if it is channel based, at least overhead speakers represent a new dimension, which is still something, but definitely not the revolution I had hoped for

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post #86 of 213 Old 08-08-2014, 11:32 AM
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For the vast majority of conventional 2-way surrounds, the recommendation is more or less meaningless, as there is no definable dispersion; that of each driver varies continuously with freq.

Horn/waveguide and properly designed coaxials have controlled directivity (constant dispersion across a range of freq) through the critical midrange.
For my situation this was important because I have an existing set of waveguide speakers (Procella Audio) and was hoping that their new P6iw (in wall / in ceiling speaker) would have a suitable radiation pattern that lined up with Dolby Atmos' specs since timbre-matching is critically important. The last thing I wanted to see was a recommendation for a specific type of speaker, such as coaxial, that would cause me to re-think my ceiling speaker approach.

Dolby recommends 90x90....yesterday I confirmed with Procella that the P6iw is 85x85, so close enough!
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post #87 of 213 Old 08-08-2014, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Aras_Volodka View Post
In home theater geeks interview with Jones He said it doesn't have to be exactly 8 feet... but within reason. If you are a few inches below you'll be fine. If your ceiling is only 7 feet tall I'm guessing you'd be fine but below that would be a stretch I'd think.

One possible solution depending on how wide/long your room is, would be to place the upwards firing speakers on a lower surface so that the sound projects to the right spot... unless if there is some drawback that I'm not aware of?

Thanks Aras. Sounds good to me as is your idea of other placement options. From my situation one can see how necessary the upward firing speaker is to the success of Atmos at home because there will be others in the same situation. I'd love to have higher ceilings as it opens up the sound but this will do for now.
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post #88 of 213 Old 08-08-2014, 11:36 AM
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What is the disappointing news?
First generation consumer Atmos feels like 11.1-channel (7.1.4) mixes that can be downmixed to smaller speaker configurations (5.1.2). Number of outputs remains the same (11.2) as on current flagship receivers, sounds are mapped to the pre-determined speaker locations and not to where your speaker actually are, and those locations around you are the same 5 or 7 spots where channel-based systems expected your speakers to be at.

Seems the only thing new with Atmos was the addition of one or two pairs of "top" speakers for overhead directionality. Again, nothing that couldn't be done with an 11.1 mix. Dolby obviously knew that folks would be disappointed that the potential of object-based audio was not being met with 1st gen products, so their Atmos FAQ includes questions about why speaker locations were pre-determined and why they were limited to 11.

The object-based nature of Atmos soundtracks will become more apparent as manufacturers allow for greater speaker placement flexibility and/or more speakers in future products. The Atmos soundtracks that people will have bought on Blu-ray will be able to map themselves to these newer and/or larger speaker configurations. That wouldn't be possible without the object-based nature of Atmos soundtracks.

However, in order to get products to market, that sort of placement flexibility and rendering to actual locations was left off 1st gen receivers. It's more like a decoder swap: last year's receivers couldn't decode Atmos, this year's receivers can. Little else different. Hence the disappointment.
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post #89 of 213 Old 08-08-2014, 11:50 AM
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I think it's a rather large step up, imho.

"Just more channels/speakers?" Well, yeah. Why is that not impressive? Before yes we had some new locations made up by post-processing algorithms arbitrarily placing content that was not intended to be in these new locations at all. Now we will be getting content that is fully intended to originate from these new overhead speaker locations.

I think that's awesome!

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post #90 of 213 Old 08-08-2014, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post


so, my apologies if I'm missed it, but where is it confirmed that atmo is a channel based and not location based audio stream?

......
it is channel based, at least overhead speakers represent a new dimension, which is still something, but definitely not the revolution I had hoped for

Source?: All the threads on Atmos for the last couple months. Like you I was super excited about it at first.

Your bolded line is where I fell out. Sdurani's post nailed what is actually being released to us as I understand it. To the consumer - it's basically 11.1 instead of 7.1 that is currently available. It doesn't have any object level function to tell exactly where your speakers are and accomodate volume levels specifically to match to your room and your speaker and seating setup. The lesser speaker capability works just like a current recevier can play a 5.1 track out of a 7.1 track recording, a receiver with less channels will still be able to play the content with higher channels - but it just won't be taking full advantage of the capability.

From my understanding the new Atmos home theater content has two 'dumb' ceiling tracks playing that can be ignored or mixed in with surround speakers - these channels play the same content regardless of the precise placement of those ceiling speakers and in the same manner for every single speaker setup that has home theater based atmos. However, this is not object based audio in the sense that the Atmos model talks about object based audio. I went to the opening movie for Brave in KC at an Atmos Theater. I heard the black suite and tie Dolby PR guy talk about how Atmos worked before the movie. What we are getting is not that. Atmos as he described is where the system knows exactly where your speakers are and pans the channel movement perfectly for your specific room and speaker configuration. (at least as it is setup in the cinema.)

Yeah for more true channels, but object based audio for home theaters this does not seem to be.

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