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post #1 of 213 Old 08-06-2014, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Dolby Atmos White Papers Available



The object-oriented sound system comes home, but there are many questions; find answers in three white papers you can download here.

By now, anyone with even a passing interest in home theater knows that Dolby Atmos—an audio system originally developed for commercial cinemas to provide a true hemispherical soundfield—has finally been adapted for use at home. The news brought cheers from enthusiasts and more than a few questions about exactly how it works and how to incorporate it into a home theater.

In response to these questions, Dolby has published three white papers, which you can download by clicking on the links below. "Dolby Atmos for the Home Theater" explains the technology, including its object-oriented nature, how it will be delivered to the home, how to set up an Atmos system, upfiring versus ceiling-mounted speakers, how Atmos soundtracks are created, and much more. "Dolby Atmos Enabled Speaker Technology" includes a series of common questions and answers about the newly developed Atmos-enabled speakers with upfiring drivers that reflect the overhead sounds from the ceiling. "dolby Atmos Home Theater Installation Guide" is a comprehensive guide to setting up an Atmos system in your home, including speaker layouts for various configurations.

All three white papers are essential reading for anyone who wants to understand this paradigm shift in home-theater audio, which literally takes movie sound into the third dimension. It will require some new speakers and a new AV receiver or preamp/processor as well as content encoded with an Atmos soundtrack, but in my view, the result is well worth the upgrade.

To view and download the Dolby Atmos white papers, click on the links below:

Dolby Atmos for the Home Theater
Dolby Atmos-Enabled Speaker Technology
Dolby Atmos Home-Theater Installation Guide

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post #2 of 213 Old 08-06-2014, 05:56 PM
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Interesting start.

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post #3 of 213 Old 08-06-2014, 05:59 PM
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I certainly won't knock it till I try it, but I just cannot see top firing speakers from a floor stander giving amazing surround effect. I hope I am proven wrong.
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post #4 of 213 Old 08-06-2014, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
I certainly won't knock it till I try it, but I just cannot see top firing speakers from a floor stander giving amazing surround effect. I hope I am proven wrong.
I agree. The aimed angle of the Atmos Enabled (likely 45 or 60 degrees, dictates the listening position. I'd rather they allow speakers at the ceiling / wall joint. I understand they need to set this up for mass market and that means an all in one speaker concept.

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post #5 of 213 Old 08-06-2014, 07:17 PM
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One thing for sure...custom installers are foaming at the mouth over the new business.

I agree that upward firing speakers may have problems in that you have to be very careful in how you aim the speakers. Reflective sound is mainstream these days with the advent of sound bars. Speakers will have to have adjustable drivers to compensate for various room sizes and configurations. But for many buyers, up firing may be the only option due to construction issues. I'm glad that Dolby at least included it as an option, and I imagine it will be a popular option. And not only will speaker manufacturers have a completely new product family to sell, but in-wall speakers which are kind of a niche may end up being really popular in Dolby Atmos ceiling configurations. Again, they would still need the ability to adjust the angle of the drivers (some probably do this now).

Lastly, it will be interesting when this "24.1.10" super system actually sees the light of day and who will make it. Basically you're looking at 5 speakers in front (like commercial theaters), five speakers on the back wall and 7 surrounds per side. And then there's amplifying all 34(!!!) channels (more budget, not to mention an electrician). And really, will anyone who builds such a system only have 1 subwoofer? 24.4.10 will be more accurate.

Of course, someone on AVS Forum will build this theater sooner than you can say "Atmos".

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post #6 of 213 Old 08-06-2014, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff in Canada View Post
I agree. The aimed angle of the Atmos Enabled (likely 45 or 60 degrees, dictates the listening position. I'd rather they allow speakers at the ceiling / wall joint. I understand they need to set this up for mass market and that means an all in one speaker concept.
They do allow ceiling speakers. The up-firing speakers are for those that cannot accommodate in-ceiling speakers.
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post #7 of 213 Old 08-06-2014, 07:19 PM
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The more I read and think about this the more I think the Atmos-enabled design has really strong psychoacoustic merit. I would like if they could have wider bandwidth (lower crossover) but maybe that's not really necessary either.

Consider the arguments about 5.1 vs 7.1: often it's said that rear surround speakers are inappropriate in cases where the speakers are within 3-4 feet of the listeners. The same standard is applied here. If the ceiling is close to the listener, the listener is better served by a reflected sound.
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post #8 of 213 Old 08-06-2014, 07:29 PM
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24.4.10 capability...

Beautiful!

I am also a little concerned about Dolby's reference to "low" ceilings causing localization of the overhead speakers, detracting from the effect. What is the definition of "low"? <8', <10', <20'???? The thought of using "Atmos enabled" rankles.

Interesting that wide dispersion speakers are recommended. Does that mean that the typical dome tweeter is better suited for overhead duties than wave guides?

.

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post #9 of 213 Old 08-06-2014, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenfeet View Post
One thing for sure...custom installers are foaming at the mouth over the new business.

I agree that upward firing speakers may have problems in that you have to be very careful in how you aim the speakers. Speakers will have to have adjustable drivers to compensate for various room sizes and configurations. But for many buyers, up firing may be the only option due to construction issues. I'm glad that Dolby at least included it as an option, and I imagine it will be a popular option. And not only will speaker manufacturers have a completely new product family to sell, but in-wall speakers which are kind of a niche may end up being really popular in Dolby Atmos ceiling configurations. Again, they would still need the ability to adjust the angle of the drivers (some probably do this now).

Lastly, it will be interesting when this "24.1.10" super system actually sees the light of day and who will make it. Basically you're looking at 5 speakers in front (like commercial theaters), five speakers on the back wall and 7 surrounds per side. And then there's amplifying all 34(!!!) channels (more budget, not to mention an electrician). Of course, someone on AVS Forum will be this theater sooner than you can say "Atmos".

I agree with all of your comments! Hell most people haven't even graduated from 5.1 to 7.1 .2 9.1 etc... etc. (I am talking Home theater here) But a dedicated room is a must and a decent size one at that... I have a 7.1 system up at our lake house as I was able to build a dedicated room and use some in walls, but the re-wiring of a theater will be a royal pain in the (|), and frankly not be that much of an improvement in a home theater size room unless the room is built correctly and has the size to accommodate all those speakers. Now if they want to use this to lure more people back into the Cinemas they better start coming up with better content instead of re-making a movie 10 times over. I lost count on how many Batman/Spiderman movies there are now! However better sound is aways needed in a nice size CinemaTheater, just not sure if the home front this is going to fly. I am sure speaker manufactures are foaming at the mouth as well. lol

I took this picture from another thread, and I found it quite funny, just add some floor speakers in and your ready too go, now don't forget to spend a couple of hundred grand in a dedicated home theater room to implement it.
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post #10 of 213 Old 08-06-2014, 07:42 PM
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I agree with all of your comments! Hell most people haven't even graduated from 5.1 to 7.1 .2 9.1 etc... etc. (I am talking Home theater here) But a dedicated room is a must and a decent size one at that... I have a 7.1 system up at our lake house as I was able to build a dedicated room and use some in walls, but the re-wiring of a theater will be a royal pain in the (|), and frankly not be that much of an improvement in a home theater size room unless the room is built correctly and has the size to accommodate all those speakers. Now if they want to use this to lure more people back into the Cinemas they better start coming up with better content instead of re-making a movie 10 times over. I lost count on how many Batman/Spiderman movies there are now! However better sound is aways needed in a nice size CinemaTheater, just not sure if the home front this is going to fly. I am sure speaker manufactures are foaming at the mouth as well. lol

I took this picture from another thread, and I found it quite funny, just add some floor speakers in and your ready too go, now don't forget to spend a couple of hundred grand in a dedicated home theater room to implement it.
That guy sure looks lonely ....
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post #11 of 213 Old 08-06-2014, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garman View Post
I agree with all of your comments! Hell most people haven't even graduated from 5.1 to 7.1 .2 9.1 etc... etc..... But a dedicated room is a must and a decent size one at that... I have a 7.1 system up at our lake house as I was able to build a dedicated room and use some in walls, but the re-wiring of a theater will be a royal pain in the (|), and frankly not be that much of an improvement in a home theater, unless the room is built correctly. Now if they want to use this to lure more people back into the Cinemas they better start coming up with better content instead of re-making a movie 10 times over. I lost count on how many Batman/Spiderman movies there are now! However better sound is aways needed in a nice size CinemaTheater, just not sure if the home front this is going to fly. I am sure speaker manufactures are foaming at the mouth as well. lol
Alas, it's not like I have budget for a project like this. Also, there are some configurations that are already problematic. For example, Dolby Atmos is assuming that the primary listening position is not against the back wall (so an overhead speaker pair can be behind you). This is the problem in my den/home theater. I've never expanded past 5.1 because there wasn't a good solution for direct rears outside of in-walls, but that might have to be the final solution. I could skip rear directs except that the ceiling speaker problem dictates I move the couch away from the wall anyway. I imagine I'm not the only one out there with this problem.

Then there's ceilings that don't conform to the spec. My ceiling is a barn style (12 ft high), so at least most of it is flat and the right and left side ends angled at 45 degrees. This would probably work best with direct drivers in the ceiling to eliminate reflection problems. But it would be an interesting drywall fishing issue through the ceiling joists in order to solve the wiring problem (do-able, but a pain in the rear). I feel sorry for anyone wanting to do this with a vaulted ceiling (lots of theater rooms in mega-mansions are in the top gable roof section normally reserved for the attic in most homes). Again, more money for custom installers to craft solutions.

Rick
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post #12 of 213 Old 08-06-2014, 07:49 PM
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I wired for (4) Atmos speakers in my ceiling which is just under 8'-0" tall. They say they don't recommend ceiling mounted speakers in low ceilings. How low is low? Are they just trying to scare me into buying Atmos enabled speakers? I assume Dolby gets a healthy chunk of those speaker sales.

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post #13 of 213 Old 08-06-2014, 08:53 PM
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I don't have a very large room and my seating is only 36" from the back wall, so I'm initially planning on mounting two ceiling speakers right above the seating ( middle top height ) and seeing how it sounds using my current front height speakers, which are mounted right up against the ceiling and pointed right at the main LP, as front height for Atmos. Hopefully, the Denon X7200 will be able to switch from Neo:X to Atmos without having to change amp assigns or bi-wire.

I also have a pair of speakers mounted just like the front height but in the back corners of the room which I no longer use. They were part of my old 5.x setup before I put in-wall speakers behind the seating and put the old JBL towers on the sides. I wonder if I could use these as back top height for Atmos if I can get a 13.1 capable receiver with pre-outs.

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post #14 of 213 Old 08-06-2014, 09:51 PM
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I am willing to try Dolby Atmos for the home but I want to see Blu-ray titles and I for sure am not going to go the route of bouncing sound off the ceiling! I think most of us know that the idea of bouncing sound is a horrible idea but first lets see the hardware for the home and some movies then we will start looking into upgrading to Dolby Atmos in the home. Hopefully there will be some 4K titles with Dolby Atmos.

How many people here are willing to invest in a Dolby Atmos reciever or pre/pro?

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post #15 of 213 Old 08-06-2014, 10:03 PM
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I am willing to try Dolby Atmos for the home but I want to see Blu-ray titles and I for sure am not going to go the route of bouncing sound off the ceiling! I think most of us know that the idea of bouncing sound is a horrible idea but first lets see the hardware for the home and some movies then we will start looking into upgrading to Dolby Atmos in the home. Hopefully there will be some 4K titles with Dolby Atmos.

How many people here are willing to invest in a Dolby Atmos reciever or pre/pro?
I dunno but this thread has over 100 pages in my browser so I thought I would post it here:/www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1574386-official-dolby-atmos-thread-home-theater-version.html
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That guy sure looks lonely ....
He who is this good at the limbo is never lonely for long
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post #17 of 213 Old 08-06-2014, 10:06 PM
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Alright, we're on a path to a new elevated surround sound hound.
Now just bring it on @ home baby!

Dolby Spatial (Atmos - Surround)

Last edited by NorthSky; 08-09-2014 at 12:13 AM. Reason: Typo (what else...)
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post #18 of 213 Old 08-06-2014, 11:36 PM
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Lastly, it will be interesting when this "24.1.10" super system actually sees the light of day and who will make it. Basically you're looking at 5 speakers in front (like commercial theaters), five speakers on the back wall and 7 surrounds per side.
I noticed 7 speakers in front. Two extra between L&C and the same between C&R, unlike commercial Atmos. This puts the Left and Right at +/- 45 degrees! Maybe they didn't know where else to put them...

Building a HT with 7.2.4 layout and ◤SEOS-24◥ LCR.
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post #19 of 213 Old 08-07-2014, 03:59 AM
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My reaction to home Atmos is: this seems like an unnecessarily complicated method of delivering 4 height channels. Why not just send them normally?

I guess there are two answers:
1) 34-speaker supersystem, baby! (riiiight)
2) it wouldn't make money for Dolby
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post #20 of 213 Old 08-07-2014, 04:22 AM
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I found these visual graphics very nice to see

I can forsee apps/games where for Dolby Atmos AVR's one will be able to move sounds around their HT space (living rooms/family room/dedicated HT space)....
Self recording and mixing at home and then playback.


Seeing this for ceiling speakers IMO relegates them to BOSE size/sound.....don't the ceiling speakers simply seem kinda small?


Espically here, shows ceiling speaker on top or it's own




As others have said who will be the first AVS person to have a 24.x.10 Dolby Atmos HT space? (x= number of subwoofers with individual calibration applied to each grouping of subwoofers, not total number of subwoofers)
Does this open up the thinking to just using powered speakers and having the digital signal get to them via wireless/BT or even over the AC line itself?


This workflow nice to see, but why is it called a "Sony Blu-print" under Blu-ray Disc Authoring?



This also interesting, so I see the AVR "knows" speaker positions - this via calibration routines like Audyssey/other?
They are not X-Y-Z coordinates of each speaker relative to MLP are they? Or are they?
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post #21 of 213 Old 08-07-2014, 07:05 AM
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I'm underwhelmed with the information presented in this white paper. The only 'new' information is the 90 x 90 recommended dispersion pattern for the in-ceiling speakers.

It would have been nice if Dolby truly dedicated a section of this document to a larger front projection setup with minimum two rows of seats. The speaker configuration for one row of seats is clear. For two rows, is the recommendation for 6 in-ceiling speakers...i.e. a pair in front of the first row, a pair in front of the second row (behind the first row) and a third pair behind the second row? It seems like the only sensible approach.

More technical information in terms of speaker angles to the MLP for standard 9.1.4 and 11.1.4 systems would have also been nice as their recommended setup drawings are weak.

Looks like they have more 'splainin' to do!
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post #22 of 213 Old 08-07-2014, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolby Atmos White Paper

If you’re not able to upgrade your home theater to Dolby Atmos yet, we still recommend
that you purchase the Dolby Atmos version of content whenever that is available.
I bet the studio's love this. I know that is what I have planned to do. Redbox will like me more.
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post #23 of 213 Old 08-07-2014, 08:15 AM
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I'm underwhelmed with the information presented in this white paper. The only 'new' information is the 90 x 90 recommended dispersion pattern for the in-ceiling speakers.

It would have been nice if Dolby truly dedicated a section of this document to a larger front projection setup with minimum two rows of seats. The speaker configuration for one row of seats is clear. For two rows, is the recommendation for 6 in-ceiling speakers...i.e. a pair in front of the first row, a pair in front of the second row (behind the first row) and a third pair behind the second row? It seems like the only sensible approach.

More technical information in terms of speaker angles to the MLP for standard 9.1.4 and 11.1.4 systems would have also been nice as their recommended setup drawings are weak.

Looks like they have more 'splainin' to do!
Yes, good to know about the recommended 90 degree min dispersion from the ceiling speakers. The question I have now is how those should integrate with the surround channels, i.e. direct firing wide dispersion (similar to ceiling) or bi/di pole surrounds. I guess it's individual preference but it would be nice if they had a recommendation.
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post #24 of 213 Old 08-07-2014, 08:17 AM
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I wonder if they will ever have a certified Dolby Atmos Surround bar?
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post #25 of 213 Old 08-07-2014, 08:21 AM
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The object-oriented sound system comes home, but there are many questions; find answers in two white papers you can download here.
Well, then! Something new to read on the crapper!
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post #26 of 213 Old 08-07-2014, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidK442 View Post
24.4.10 capability...

I am also a little concerned about Dolby's reference to "low" ceilings causing localization of the overhead speakers, detracting from the effect. What is the definition of "low"? <8', <10', <20'???? The thought of using "Atmos enabled" rankles.
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I wired for (4) Atmos speakers in my ceiling which is just under 8'-0" tall. They say they don't recommend ceiling mounted speakers in low ceilings. How low is low? Are they just trying to scare me into buying Atmos enabled speakers? I assume Dolby gets a healthy chunk of those speaker sales.
I'm in the same boat with a 7'2" ceiling. I still haven't seen any definitive answers. I guess I'll wire for atmos and wait a while to make a decision.

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post #27 of 213 Old 08-07-2014, 09:20 AM
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I certainly won't knock it till I try it, but I just cannot see top firing speakers from a floor stander giving amazing surround effect. I hope I am proven wrong.
I've heard it.

It's really good.

Dolby is scheduled to have an announcement in the next two weeks that should give more details about content, among other things.

From what I've been told, I'm fairly sure people who are excited about upgrading will be very happy.
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post #28 of 213 Old 08-07-2014, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by erwinfrombelgium View Post
I noticed 7 speakers in front. Two extra between L&C and the same between C&R, unlike commercial Atmos. This puts the Left and Right at +/- 45 degrees! Maybe they didn't know where else to put them...
You're right. Maybe it's to account for existing height speaker installations that some people already have. There have already been diagrams indicating having height speakers at the front and rear at or near the top of the front and back walls (as opposed to mounted directly in the ceiling). This may not be a bad scenario in a super-home setting since you have speakers between the mains on the floor and the ones in the ceiling. So an object that moves from the front to over and behind you would pan more smoothly through the room. In a commercial theater, the room is so large that the ceiling speakers toward the front and rear are going to be more or less at the same angle as the front/rear home height speakers from the listener.

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post #29 of 213 Old 08-07-2014, 10:02 AM
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I am SUPER excited for dolby atmos!


in honesty, I'm still running 5.1. 7.1 wasn't worth the hassle in my room, and I don't have the space for front wides either, so a 9.1 wasn't gonna happen anyway. but that's NOT the point of atmos.


atmos isn't about having more channels. it's a totally different method of conveying audio, and THAT'S what I'm excited about. you have 5 speakers? fine, atmos will make the most of it. you have 15 speakers, great, atmos will work with that too!


I love that it's so easy to implement and even easier to upgrade. the BD's you buy today with your 5.1 system won't need to be rebought in 6yrs when you want to get the most out of your 9.2 system. as a format, it's awesome!


I've been putting off buying a new avr for awhile, and now I know why. I was waiting for atmos!


now I don't know how much I'm going to see any improvement without adding speakers, but that's ok. because I know that I CAN add speakers whenever I want and everything will still work awesome.


as for the up-firing speakers, I'm not sure why you'd doubt their abilities. I'm certain they will work as advertised. BUT, not in room that have sound treatments on the ceiling. but then I suspect that ppl who love audio enough to do that can install ceiling speakers like they should. the up-firing models will be reserved for the ppl that want simplicity, or live in places that won't allow you to do anything to the walls/ceiling.


either way, I don't see ANY downside to atmos. at worst, it's as good as the best dedicated channel recording. and it shouldn't take much to get more out of it than what we have now.
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post #30 of 213 Old 08-07-2014, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garman View Post
I wonder if they will ever have a certified Dolby Atmos Surround bar?

From Twice:


http://www.twice.com/blog/reportersn...e-theater/8849


Quote:
The technology scales down for playback through cinemas with fewer than 64 speakers, and it scales down to home theater systems with far fewer speakers. In fact, Atmos could be embedded in an active soundbar to deliver surround-sound performance that exceeds that of current soundbars with various types of virtual-surround processing, I’m told. - See more at: http://www.twice.com/blog/reportersn....qCpN9Jjf.dpuf
Is this raising the bar


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