Dolby Demos Atmos for Cinema and Home - Page 14 - AVS Forum
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post #391 of 511 Old 08-30-2014, 10:38 PM
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There is nothing preventing any other signal processor from using the upfiring speakers. It's just speaker terminals on the speaker system. As to whether a processor would facilitate that depends on many factors, but the ball is in the court of algorithm developers to define such a use. Thus far, that has not been done.

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post #392 of 511 Old 08-30-2014, 10:42 PM
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You're like me; you want everybody happy, not just us bunches @ audio/video forums of the WWW (World Wide Web).
Exactly. For this and other awesome audio advances to succeed, we need a whole lot more people involved. These "enabled" speakers being released shortly to the masses should be able to work for any of the height "channel" type formats. That's only fair.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #393 of 511 Old 08-30-2014, 10:45 PM
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post #394 of 511 Old 08-30-2014, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
There is nothing preventing any other signal processor from using the upfiring speakers. It's just speaker terminals on the speaker system. As to whether a processor would facilitate that depends on many factors, but the ball is in the court of algorithm developers to define such a use. Thus far, that has not been done.
From my understanding from what I've been reading (and please correct me if I am wrong) these Atmos "enabled" speakers were designed to work in concert with Dolby's new signal processing. If a company like DTS or Auro were to try and make these upward firing "Atmos speaker drivers" work with their formats, wouldn't they need to duplicate Dolby's proprietary "secret audio sauce?" Would Dolby not care? That would be cool if they didn't raise a stink. It would be a more consumer friendly gesture, that's for sure. Or was what Dolby did not patentable (and here I'm not talking about Atmos or Dolby Surround proper... just these types of special speakers and the added DSP feature).

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!

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post #395 of 511 Old 08-30-2014, 11:01 PM
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If a company like DTS or Auro were to try and make these upward firing "Atmos speaker drivers" work with their formats, wouldn't they need to duplicate Dolby's proprietary "secret audio sauce?"
Or come up with something better. Dolby can't prevent consumers from sending any signal they want, post-processed any way they like, to the upward firing speakers.

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post #396 of 511 Old 08-30-2014, 11:10 PM
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Yes, I do understand the difference between the two types of speakers.

As for the "enabled" speakers, why would anyone buy a speaker that would only work, in its entirety, for Dolby audio formats alone?
Because it works with Atmos and for the new Dolby Surround upmixer, which will work on any of the existing codecs available today...

That's why I am buying them... DTS-UHD isn't here, and Auro is also a no go with content at this point...

You and I are apparently at odds as to why it makes sense for Dolby to "protect" a technology they spent a great deal of capital on and not open it up to a competing format... and I'm only speculating that's the case... regardless, there isn't really any content for the much talked about, but absent, DTS-UHD...

Do you think DTS is going to create their own speaker technology to compete with Elevation?

If not, don't you think it limit their market?

So I'll have to suffer with my Atmos/DS only speakers without any solution for reproducing overhead sound from the "upcoming" DTS-UHD object based format.... (I suspect that UHD will be able to be decoded as 5.1/7.1 and use the upmixer via DS, so they won't be totally useless...)

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In the history of speakers I can't think of a single time where an audio format and a speaker were exclusively tied to one another.
This isn't like any other technology to come before it, is it?

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Layout yes, speaker no. Only part of what makes these things work is in the design of the speaker itself, the other part is the Dolby "exclusive" audio trickery to enhance the illusion of height.
Since you concede that Dolby has created something "exclusive" through R and D and money, why shouldn't it be used for their format "exclusively?"

They should just open it up to their competition?

Who's idea of a good business decision would that be?

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For the sake of discussion, if what you're saying ends up being correct, I put in a disc that has any other format that uses height effects (sounds/dialog/music) like DTS-UHD or Auro3D, part of my expensive purchase just sits there silent or doesn't work as advertised.
I guess so, yes.

How is it not "working as advertised?"

Your "Dolby Atmos Enabled" speakers are only working for Atmos and DS umpiring?
How was anyone "duped?"
And what solution have the people who created the content and the codec offered you as an alternative?

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And you would expect the lay person to be happy with that; the very people Dolby is trying to entice with these types of speakers? I know I would personally be furious. That then reflects negatively on Dolby and then Atmos (because, again, they don't know what we as hobbyists know - they're working on a much lower set of facts), which in turn hurts the adoption of said format for everyone. Yes, then the enthusiasts like you and me, gets shafted in the process. Enough people don't buy into Atmos and the studios start thinking nobody cares, just like with 3D. It's the 'round robin psychology of consumer confidence, marketing, and sales.
Dan.. how would this theoretical average joe have the capability to understand the difference between Atmos and UHD without also being able to understand the fact than their "Dolby Atmos Enabled" speakers won't work with XYZ technology with their lower set of facts ?

If the AVR manufacturers differentiate as they do toady (Dolby speakers vs. in/on ceiling) they won't render to the Elevation speakers anyway and will just tell the decoder they have 5.1/7.1 to work with... and the consumer will be free to choose the "DTS-UHD + Dolby Surround" sound option as they do today.

And, you and I are completely speculating that this will be the case.. IMO, I can't see why Dolby would do it any other way.

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Atmos and object surround in and of itself, in this climate, is already facing an uphill battle, unfortunately.

That's what I'm getting at.
That's your opinion, not a fact.

Check in with me next year this time.. we will see how things have panned out.

I've a much rosier outlook for this going forward.. and I don't think those who decide to spend money on Atmos Enabled Speakers are going to burn down the gates when / if DTS-UHD launches and they can't playback the overheads with them...
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post #397 of 511 Old 08-30-2014, 11:28 PM
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Or come up with something better. Dolby can't prevent consumers from sending any signal they want, post-processed any way they like, to the upward firing speakers.
My speculation is that any speaker designated as a Dolby speaker, vs. Top/On-In Ceiling, is locked out of use unless it is being fed a DS umpixes or Atmos...

However, this really doesn't matter since we've seen no other competing format enter the market at this point in an Atmos AVR/SSP.. the idea that we're discussing this without any idea of how UHD or Auro will be implemented in future products is academic at best.

While I suspect nothing will change, I will be curious to see if Yamaha is able to use these speakers for their DSP... if they are able to do so, my assumption is flawed. But I'd be really surprised if that is the case (Yamaha's implementation, not that I was wrong. )

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post #398 of 511 Old 08-30-2014, 11:36 PM
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Because it works with Atmos and for the new Dolby Surround upmixer, which will work on any of the existing codecs available today...

That's why I am buying them... DTS-UHD isn't here, and Auro is also a no go with content at this point...

You and I are apparently at odds as to why it makes sense for Dolby to "protect" a technology they spent a great deal of capital on and not open it up to a competing format... and I'm only speculating that's the case... regardless, there isn't really any content for the much talked about, but absent, DTS-UHD...

Do you think DTS is going to create their own speaker technology to compete with Elevation?

If not, don't you think it limit their market?

So I'll have to suffer with my Atmos/DS only speakers without any solution for reproducing overhead sound from the "upcoming" DTS-UHD object based format.... (I suspect that UHD will be able to be decoded as 5.1/7.1 and use the upmixer via DS, so they won't be totally useless...)



This isn't like any other technology to come before it, is it?



Since you concede that Dolby has created something "exclusive" through R and D and money, why shouldn't it be used for their format "exclusively?"

They should just open it up to their competition?

Who's idea of a good business decision would that be?



I guess so, yes.

How is it not "working as advertised?"

Your "Dolby Atmos Enabled" speakers are only working for Atmos and DS umpiring?
How was anyone "duped?"
And what solution have the people who created the content and the codec offered you as an alternative?



Dan.. how would this theoretical average joe have the capability to understand the difference between Atmos and UHD without also being able to understand the fact than their "Dolby Atmos Enabled" speakers won't work with XYZ technology with their lower set of facts ?

If the AVR manufacturers differentiate as they do toady (Dolby speakers vs. in/on ceiling) they won't render to the Elevation speakers anyway and will just tell the decoder they have 5.1/7.1 to work with... and the consumer will be free to choose the "DTS-UHD + Dolby Surround" sound option as they do today.

And, you and I are completely speculating that this will be the case.. IMO, I can't see why Dolby would do it any other way.



That's your opinion, not a fact.

Check in with me next year this time.. we will see how things have panned out.

I've a much rosier outlook for this going forward.. and I don't think those who decide to spend money on Atmos Enabled Speakers are going to burn down the gates when / if DTS-UHD launches and they can't playback the overheads with them...
I, for one, hope you're right about that last part and I am dead wrong. Just like I hope you are wrong about the "enabled" speakers being exclusively Dolby's purview. Looking at Roger's comment above, he seems to think they may be able to work properly with other formats anyway. That would be great if true.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!

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post #399 of 511 Old 08-30-2014, 11:43 PM
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I, for one, hope you're right about that last part and I am dead wrong. Just like I hope you are wrong about the "enabled" speakers being exclusively Dolby's purview. Looking at Roger's comment above, he seems to think they may be able to work properly with other formats anyway. That would be great if true.
Reading Rogers post closely he says..

"There is nothing preventing any other signal processor from using the upfiring speakers."

I assume he means that the other company would have to develop their own secret sauce, and not rely on/use Dolby's...

I'm sure he can clarify.

We just won't know until we have something else to decode on these AVR's, now will we?
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post #400 of 511 Old 08-30-2014, 11:49 PM
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Reading Rogers post closely he says..

"There is nothing preventing any other signal processor from using the upfiring speakers."

I assume he means that the other company would have to develop their own secret sauce, and not rely on/use Dolby's...

I'm sure he can clarify.

We just won't know until we have something else to decode on these AVR's, now will we?
Just so long as they can still work and work well with more than Dolby's stuff. That's all I'm asking. If I ended up in a living situation where I had to rely on "enabled" speakers rather than ceiling speakers, then I would want my money's worth.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #401 of 511 Old 08-31-2014, 12:32 AM
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My speculation is that any speaker designated as a Dolby speaker, vs. Top/On-In Ceiling, is locked out of use unless it is being fed a DS umpixes or Atmos...
It certainly worked that way when we tested it on your Denon 5200. However, since we're speculating, I'm going to take a wild guess that this limitation could be for reasons other than Dolby attempting to maintain exclusivity with its own codecs.

There is a section of the DSP chipset that has 4 things: Dolby codec decoders, Dolby Atmos decoder, Dolby Surround upmixer, Dolby Elevation processor. When a Dolby bitstream is detected, it is decoded and rendered to the speaker layout, either via DS upmixing or the Atmos rendering engine.

Outside this block are decoders for MP3, DTS codecs and the DTS upmixer (Neo:X). These codecs can be decoded and sent to the Dolby section as PCM, where they can be upmixed using DS and rendered using DE (both of those will work with 2-channel PCM from CDs and 5.1/7.1 DTS-MA from BDs).

However, there are only 8 pipes going into the Dolby section, so 7.1 is the max that can be sent in. If you apply Neo:X and try to send a 9.1 or 11.1 signal into the Dolby block, it won't go. Same with applying Yamaha DSP Cinema modes and trying to send a 9.1 or 11.1 signal. 8 pipes, max 7.1 input.

This isn't limited to Dolby processing. If you have Auro3D installed in a Datasat, it has the same limitations. The Auro upmixer renders to 13.1 outputs/speakers. It can upmix 5.1/7.1 signals, but not 9.1-channel Auro soundtracks. 8 pipes, max 7.1 input.

So rather than maintaining exclusivity, it's possible that the reason Dolby Elevation doesn't work with Neo:X and Yamaha DSP modes is because there is no way to get an 11.1-channel signal into the Dolby block of the DSP chipset. Otherwise, there's no problem applying DS and DE to DTS soundtracks (as long as they have 8 channels or less).

Sanjay
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post #402 of 511 Old 08-31-2014, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
Reading Rogers post closely he says..

"There is nothing preventing any other signal processor from using the upfiring speakers."

I assume he means that the other company would have to develop their own secret sauce, and not rely on/use Dolby's...

I'm sure he can clarify.
Yes, I was only suggesting the speakers themselves could be accessed, if the AVR supported that and provide suitable signal processing. Lotta "ifs" there.

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post #403 of 511 Old 08-31-2014, 01:02 AM
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I've a much rosier outlook for this going forward.. and I don't think those who decide to spend money on Atmos Enabled Speakers are going to burn down the gates when / if DTS-UHD launches and they can't playback the overheads with them...
They'll simply purchase another receiver, or pre/pro with that new DTS-UHD audio chip decoder, when it comes.

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post #404 of 511 Old 08-31-2014, 08:54 AM
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They'll simply purchase another receiver, or pre/pro with that new DTS-UHD audio chip decoder, when it comes.
Another reason why I intend to sit this generation out. There are too many unknowns with other formats and there is the lack of full UHD support in their HDMI chipsets. I, for one, cannot afford to keep upgrading processors every year or other year.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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Very few people other than some people on this forum are going to replace a working SSP just to get Atmos, Auro, or some other flavor. it will take years for this to be adopted into the mainstream just as 4K or UHD or whatever it's called today (2 years this fall). An the price will have to be very close to current SSPs.


let's face it - the younger generation (defined as growing enormous market) is just as happy watching a movie on an iPad with headphones than sitting in a $100K home theater.
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Very few people other than some people on this forum are going to replace a working SSP just to get Atmos, Auro, or some other flavor. it will take years for this to be adopted into the mainstream just as 4K or UHD or whatever it's called today (2 years this fall). An the price will have to be very close to current SSPs.


let's face it - the younger generation (defined as growing enormous market) is just as happy watching a movie on an iPad with headphones than sitting in a $100K home theater.
It's these same electronics manufacturers and their incessant pushing of portable devices that are destroying the consumer base for proper home theater setups, just as the iPod and iTunes savaged music sound quality. The logic behind these companies is just like a snake eating its own tail.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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Just so long as they can still work and work well with more than Dolby's stuff. That's all I'm asking. If I ended up in a living situation where I had to rely on "enabled" speakers rather than ceiling speakers, then I would want my money's worth.
Dan - it boils down to this: Dolby Atmos speakers (ie upfiring speakers or modules) can only be expected to work with Dolby Atmos. That seems blindingly obvious, hence the name. In or on ceiling speakers can be expected to work with any potential future codec, if the manufacturers find a way to use the ceiling speakers. So it would be up to DTS to make UHD use those speakers effectively, not Dolby, obviously.

But personally, I think if you are waiting for DTS UHD or Auro 'for home' you might be in for a long wait. History shows us what a powerful thing first mover advantage is... so if DTS ever do launch anything, so late in the game, they'd be insane to not make use of the speaker layouts people already have (on their ceiling).

I spent then weekend installing my 4 overheads. In a few weeks I will have my Denon Atmos unit. I won’t be losing too much sleep wondering when DTS and Auro are going to catch up...
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post #409 of 511 Old 08-31-2014, 11:03 AM
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Dan - it boils down to this: Dolby Atmos speakers (ie upfiring speakers or modules) can only be expected to work with Dolby Atmos. That seems blindingly obvious, hence the name. In or on ceiling speakers can be expected to work with any potential future codec, if the manufacturers find a way to use the ceiling speakers. So it would be up to DTS to make UHD use those speakers effectively, not Dolby, obviously.

But personally, I think if you are waiting for DTS UHD or Auro 'for home' you might be in for a long wait. History shows us what a powerful thing first mover advantage is... so if DTS ever do launch anything, so late in the game, they'd be insane to not make use of the speaker layouts people already have (on their ceiling).

I spent then weekend installing my 4 overheads. In a few weeks I will have my Denon Atmos unit. I won’t be losing too much sleep wondering when DTS and Auro are going to catch up...
You will if DTS does come out with something and certain discs only have UHD and not Atmos.

DTS played catch up with their DTS Master Audio codec and ended up being on the majority of Blu-ray's. At this stage, we just can't tell the outcome yet. If DTS is a no-show at CES 2015 (as they are at this year's CEDIA), we may have our answer. Perhaps they're trying to get back into the cinema market and focusing their efforts on MDA, and DTS-UHD is taking a back seat.

All that I know is this: these "enabled" speakers should be able to work for more than just Dolby audio. That is the consumer-friendly way to do things.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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Dan - it boils down to this: Dolby Atmos speakers (ie upfiring speakers or modules) can only be expected to work with Dolby Atmos. That seems blindingly obvious, hence the name. In or on ceiling speakers can be expected to work with any potential future codec, if the manufacturers find a way to use the ceiling speakers. So it would be up to DTS to make UHD use those speakers effectively, not Dolby, obviously.

But personally, I think if you are waiting for DTS UHD or Auro 'for home' you might be in for a long wait. History shows us what a powerful thing first mover advantage is... so if DTS ever do launch anything, so late in the game, they'd be insane to not make use of the speaker layouts people already have (on their ceiling).

I spent then weekend installing my 4 overheads. In a few weeks I will have my Denon Atmos unit. I won’t be losing too much sleep wondering when DTS and Auro are going to catch up...
+1.

I've got 6 height speakers up, optimized for Auro 3D. I left a lot of speaker wire slack I'm case Atmos requires it. I bought an SSP that will support Atmos, DTS UHD (if it comes to be)now I just wait for content. That said, the Auro 3D up mixing works well and betters 7.1.

I wasn't planning on adding all these height channels but during my room renovation all this new codec news came to be... so better to move forward than not move at all.


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post #411 of 511 Old 08-31-2014, 11:26 AM
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You will if DTS does come out with something and certain discs only have UHD and not Atmos.
If they aren't insane, their format will work with the speakers I already have on my ceiling.

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DTS played catch up with their DTS Master Audio codec and ended up being on the majority of Blu-ray's.
You know the total irrelevance of that If you thought you'd slip it in as a debating tactic, well it failed

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At this stage, we just can't tell the outcome yet. If DTS is a no-show at CES 2015 (as they are at this year's CEDIA), we may have our answer. Perhaps they're trying to get back into the cinema market and focusing their efforts on MDA, and DTS-UHD is taking a back seat.
Whatever they are doing, it is always going to be difficult to enjoy the voyage when you missed the boat.

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All that I know is this: these "enabled" speakers should be able to work for more than just Dolby audio. That is the consumer-friendly way to do things.
It's cloud-cuckoo land, Dan. If I just spent millions on R&D to invent something unique for the AV market, how likely do you think it would be that I would then let all my late-coming competitors use it?
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post #412 of 511 Old 08-31-2014, 11:54 AM
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If they aren't insane, their format will work with the speakers I already have on my ceiling.

It's cloud-cuckoo land, Dan. If I just spent millions on R&D to invent something unique for the AV market, how likely do you think it would be that I would then let all my late-coming competitors use it?
I'm only talking about these all-in-one and module speakers produced for the majority of the home theater market, not "regular" speakers that you can place just about anywhere if you have the means and the funds. They're not cheap speakers (at least the ones being debuted right now), and one would only hope Dolby would get over themselves (if they are going to play the "exclusive card") and allow the upward firing drivers to work with multiple formats, or at least allow DTS and possibly Auro to make their own codecs work with them if selected in the setup menu as a consumer's height speakers.

There may be R&D involved, but there is also the "we care about our consumers" card that too many corporations these days have forgotten. This would be a total marketplace mess if DTS and Auro had to come out with their own format-specific all-in-one speakers and/or modules and consumers had to buy multiple models... as I mentioned to FilmMixer above.

Of course DTS and Auro (if one or the other do show up late to the party) will have to allow for rendering to Atmos speaker layouts. In fact, that's what the MDA Group did at that AMC theater demo for SMPTE a while back. The auditorium was laid out for Auro and Atmos speaker configurations and they showed the MDA codec renderer could map objects and beds to either in a pleasing manner... and also an 11.1 home-theater like arrangement.

If I come away impressed with what Atmos can do after CEDIA, I too would probably care less about DTS-UHD or Auro. However, I don't want to have to buy receivers a bunch of times if they do come out and studios choose one over the other. Unlike some members here, I don't have the extra money to play with at this time.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!

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post #413 of 511 Old 08-31-2014, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
I'm only talking about these all-in-one and module speakers produced for the majority of the home theater market, not "regular" speakers that you can place just about anywhere if you have the means and the funds. They're not cheap speakers (at least the ones being debuted right now), and one would only hope Dolby would get over themselves (if they are going to play the "exclusive card") and allow the upward firing drivers to work with multiple formats, or at least allow DTS and possibly Auro to make their own codecs work with them if selected in the setup menu as a consumer's height speakers.
So, Dan, you think it's reasonable for a company to invest millions of dollars in R&D to pioneer something totally new, which will give that company a huge competitive lead on the market, and then to 'get over themselves' and make it all available to every competitor who just feels like implementing it? On which planet does that business model exist? If Ford invented a petrol engine that could go 150 miles on a gallon of gas, you'd expect them to hand the tech over to GM and Chrysler too? Really? I suspect you are yanking my chain.

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There may be R&D involved, but there is also the "we care about our consumers" card that too many corporations these days have forgotten.
So you really would expect Ford to hand their tech to their competitors then because they would then show how much they 'care for their customers'?

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This would be a total marketplace mess if DTS and Auro had to come out with their own format-specific all-in-one speakers and/or modules and consumers had to buy multiple models... as I mentioned to FilmMixer above.
I think this is what is called a free market economy. Nothing stopped DTS and Auro doing what Dolby did. They just weren't capable, that's all.

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Of course DTS and Auro (if one or the other do show up late to the party) will have to allow for rendering to Atmos speaker layouts. In fact, that's what the MDA Group did at that AMC theater demo for SMPTE a while back. The auditorium was laid out for Auro and Atmos speaker configurations and they showed the MDA codec renderer could map objects and beds to either in a pleasing manner... and also an 11.1 home-theater like arrangement.
Of course. A speaker layout isn't something you can patent.

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If I come away impressed with what Atmos can do after CEDIA, I too would probably care less about DTS-UHD or Auro. However, I don't want to have to buy receivers a bunch of times if they do come out and studios choose one over the other. Unlike some members here, I don't have the extra money to play with at this time.
It isn’t an issue of money. You can’t expect commercial organisations to give away their Intellectual Property for free, just because some consumers otherwise won't be able to afford it. It's a nice idea and I’d like to live in Utopia too, but here in the real world, companies have to find a lot of money to conduct R&D, and when it works out for them, they expect to recoup that investment and a profit on top - not to give it away for free to their lazy, or inefficient, or incapable competitors.

In your world, you wouldn’t have Atmos, or much else TBH. Every company would be sitting on their ass waiting for some other company to develop something, and then give it to them for free.


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post #414 of 511 Old 08-31-2014, 12:27 PM
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The notch filters are applied by the DVR and not built into the up-firing modules. Frequency related height queues have been studied for decades.
Dolby licensing is required to put the "Atmos" label on speakers and the DSP processing in the AVR.
So, Dolby could restrict the use of the top-firing driver.


I agree that this would be the first time when a format had control over the use of speaker purchased by a customer and exerting this control would not be well received.


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post #415 of 511 Old 08-31-2014, 12:38 PM
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History shows us what a powerful thing first mover advantage is... so if DTS ever do launch anything, so late in the game, they'd be insane to not make use of the speaker layouts people already have (on their ceiling).
DTS has already said that UHD is layout agnostic, so that's not in question. As for first mover advantage, DTS overcame it so spectacularly on BD that I wouldn't rule out history repeating itself. Not saying it will, just saying I won't dismiss it this early in the game (at the infancy of object audio for consumers).
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post #416 of 511 Old 08-31-2014, 12:46 PM
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The current situation reminds me of the first availability of Dolby Digital and DTS audio on DVDs. I still have a Pioneer receiver which has only DD and no DTS decoding. (It's turned off and acting as a stand for another receiver, but still....) In a few years we'll be wondering what all the fuss was about, and, as usual, early adopters will have enjoyed 3D surround sound for longer than those who decided to wait.

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post #417 of 511 Old 08-31-2014, 12:51 PM
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So, Dan, you think it's reasonable for a company to invest millions of dollars in R&D to pioneer something totally new, which will give that company a huge competitive lead on the market, and then to 'get over themselves' and make it all available to every competitor who just feels like implementing it? On which planet does that business model exist? If Ford invented a petrol engine that could go 150 miles on a gallon of gas, you'd expect them to hand the tech over to GM and Chrysler too? Really? I suspect you are yanking my chain.



So you really would expect Ford to hand their tech to their competitors then because they would then show how much they 'care for their customers'?



I think this is what is called a free market economy. Nothing stopped DTS and Auro doing what Dolby did. They just weren't capable, that's all.



Of course. A speaker layout isn't something you can patent.



It isn’t an issue of money. You can’t expect commercial organisations to give away their Intellectual Property for free, just because some consumers otherwise won't be able to afford it. It's a nice idea and I’d like to live in Utopia too, but here in the real world, companies have to find a lot of money to conduct R&D, and when it works out for them, they expect to recoup that investment and a profit on top - not to give it away for free to their lazy, or inefficient, or incapable competitors.

In your world, you wouldn’t have Atmos, or much else TBH. Every company would be sitting on their ass waiting for some other company to develop something, and then give it to them for free.

If NASA had had the same corporate mindset as that during the space race you wouldn't have a plethora of cell phones, personal computers, and other technological wonders. They didn't keep the scientific and technological knowledge gained in their R&D all to themselves. Pure free market capitalism has never worked anyway because it never takes into account humans' worst instincts, like greed and selfishness. And I'm not saying that Dolby give up their Atmos codec designs... it's just a damn notch filter for an upward firing speaker for crying out loud. I wonder if that's even patentable anyway. Next they'll be saying they can patent how humans hear... oh sh!t, I just gave corporations another idea.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!

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post #418 of 511 Old 08-31-2014, 01:06 PM
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DTS has already said that UHD is layout agnostic, so that's not in question. As for first mover advantage, DTS overcame it so spectacularly on BD that I wouldn't rule out history repeating itself. Not saying it will, just saying I won't dismiss it this early in the game (at the infancy of object audio for consumers).
DTS gained supremacy on BD because it was a faster (and thus cheaper) solution for the authoring houses. Consumers didn't, and don't, GAF which compression method a disc uses. It's not like the DTS solution was superior or anything (for the consumer). So the comparison is spurious IMO.

With BD, DTS brought a better product to the content creators. Besides all that, to overcome Dolby's first mover advantage this time around, they'd have to have more movies in theaters (which would then translate to BD). How is this working out for them so far?


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post #419 of 511 Old 08-31-2014, 01:08 PM
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If NASA had had the same corporate mindset as that during the space race you wouldn't have a plethora of cell phones, personal computers, and other technological wonders. They didn't keep the scientific and technological knowledge gained in their R&D all to themselves. Pure free market capitalism has never worked anyway because it never takes into account humans' worst instincts, like greed and selfishness. And I'm not saying that Dolby give up their Atmos codec designs... it's just a damn notch filter for an upward firing speaker for crying out loud. I wonder if that's even patentable anyway. Next they'll be saying they can patent how humans hear... oh sh!t, I just gave corporations another idea.
You're trying too hard now, Dan. NASA is funded how?


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post #420 of 511 Old 08-31-2014, 01:09 PM
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That's a completely different situation. NASA research is funded by the U.S. government (our tax dollars at work). All of their non-classified results are in the public domain and available for anyone to use because we paid for it.

Dolby is a for-profit company. The intellectual property resulting from their research is protected by Patents, Copyrights and TradeMarks because they paid for it.

But this is an inappropriate topic for this thread.
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