Dolby Demos Atmos for Cinema and Home - Page 15 - AVS Forum
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Old 08-31-2014, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
There may be R&D involved, but there is also the "we care about our consumers" card that too many corporations these days have forgotten.
They don't need to do to do it for altruistic reasons, because it already makes good business sense to make virtual heights speakers agnostic to various processing modes (even the competition's). Not doing so doesn't just leave them open to someone coming up with an alternative, it leaves them open to someone else coming up with a better alternative.

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Old 08-31-2014, 02:26 PM
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You're trying too hard now, Dan. NASA is funded how?
There have been a number of ex Astronauts and other top engineers who have decried the de-funding and privatization of NASA due to the great work they used to do with the limited amount of tax payer resources they received annually... all for the public good, not just some cabal of international stockholders who only care about money.

There is an argument to be made that this is a better way for ground breaking technology to be invented than purely in the private, profit-is-king, sector.

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Old 08-31-2014, 02:37 PM
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So, Dan, you think it's reasonable for a company to invest millions of dollars in R&D to pioneer something totally new, which will give that company a huge competitive lead on the market, and then to 'get over themselves' and make it all available to every competitor who just feels like implementing it? On which planet does that business model exist? If Ford invented a petrol engine that could go 150 miles on a gallon of gas, you'd expect them to hand the tech over to GM and Chrysler too? Really? I suspect you are yanking my chain.



So you really would expect Ford to hand their tech to their competitors then because they would then show how much they 'care for their customers'?



I think this is what is called a free market economy. Nothing stopped DTS and Auro doing what Dolby did. They just weren't capable, that's all.



Of course. A speaker layout isn't something you can patent.



It isn’t an issue of money. You can’t expect commercial organisations to give away their Intellectual Property for free, just because some consumers otherwise won't be able to afford it. It's a nice idea and I’d like to live in Utopia too, but here in the real world, companies have to find a lot of money to conduct R&D, and when it works out for them, they expect to recoup that investment and a profit on top - not to give it away for free to their lazy, or inefficient, or incapable competitors.

In your world, you wouldn’t have Atmos, or much else TBH. Every company would be sitting on their ass waiting for some other company to develop something, and then give it to them for free.
When they say it's not about the money....

I don't get the controversy. It's a hobby. It's not a life changing event. These upcoming new surround codecs are part of the Allure if this hobby. I assume that's why you're here. These are exciting times in HT Land.

Just buy the speakers and receiver and move forward. If you make 5 decisions regarding these new multi channel formats, likely at least 3 will be correct. And the other 2 mistakes can be fixed when the true answers come to be known.

It's just like business. Act. Don't wait. Keep moving forward.

I'm fully enjoying Auro 3D right now and am set up for Atmos. In fact, if all else fails, the up mixing to all my new height speakers certainly beats 7.1... So, I feel like I am already ahead. I bought 6 additional height speakers. I don't even know if their positioning is right for Atmos with all this talk of hybrid speakers or other designs or positions. If not, I'll have to move them about the ceiling or sell them. But I do know, I'm not sitting still and likely most of my decisions will be correct.

When Blu Ray and HD DVD came out, we all bought in not knowing who'd come out in top. This over analysis will make you crazy. Waiting will make you crazy.

It's not an inexpensive hobby but adding a few small height speakers and receiver with Atmos won't collapse your bank account (if you can afford this hobby in the first place. These are luxury items) and at least in adopting, you're in the mix for all the upcoming fun!

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Old 08-31-2014, 02:39 PM
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DTS gained supremacy on BD because it was a faster (and thus cheaper) solution for the authoring houses.
By describing how they overcame first mover advantage, you're making my point: they overcame it. A Dolby engineer has to be present during an Atmos mix. DTS-MDA is a plug-in.
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How is this working out for them so far?
As well as their Master Audio lossless codec was working out during the infancy of high def disc formats. Heck, their decoders missed two whole generations of players. How good a predictor was that of the current situation on BD?

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Old 08-31-2014, 02:40 PM
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There is something "ringing true" in that short sentence; I like it.

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Old 08-31-2014, 02:51 PM
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I've got 6 height speakers up, optimized for Auro 3D. I left a lot of speaker wire slack I'm case Atmos requires it. I bought an SSP that will support Atmos, DTS UHD (if it comes to be)now I just wait for content. That said, the Auro 3D up mixing works well and betters 7.1.

I wasn't planning on adding all these height channels but during my room renovation all this new codec news came to be... so better to move forward than not move at all.
Jeff, that's your name?

I have been following the progress of your new room and all the jazz that goes inside.
When your room and setup with all coordinates/parameters properly adjusted and dialed in is ready;
would it be possible for me to visit you only for an hour or two to experience the performance results?

I know couple cute young female friends too who would love to participate, if you're game.
Are you a married man? ...If so we can skip that part. ...Or unless ...
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Old 08-31-2014, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
The notch filters are applied by the DVR and not built into the up-firing modules. Frequency related height queues have been studied for decades.
Dolby licensing is required to put the "Atmos" label on speakers and the DSP processing in the AVR.
So, Dolby could restrict the use of the top-firing driver.


I agree that this would be the first time when a format had control over the use of speaker purchased by a customer and exerting this control would not be well received.


- Rich
THX attempted control over speakers as well. ...And subwoofers, and TVs, and DVD/Blu-ray players, and ...
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Old 08-31-2014, 03:21 PM
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Interesting article linked below regarding Sony pictures fairly recent upgrade of their William Holder theater to incorporate both Dolby Atmos and Auro 3D mixing capabilities.


"The mix team elected to work in Atmos natively rather than start with a 5.1 or 7.1 mix. “They did the Atmos mix, then folded that into Auro; it worked seamlessly and gave them a nice starting point for tweaking the Auro mix. From that, they created their 5.1 mix,” says McCarthy. -


http://www.prosoundnetwork.com/artic...ve-sound/17940


I wonder if this will become the norm, mixing in Atmos and folding down to Auro 3D?
It would certainly offer the consumer the choice and avoid the detriment of a format war if both mixes were to be presented on the same Blu-ray disc.
This presupposes that Auro 3D licensing will become affordable to the masses.
How widespread within the film industry is the use of Harrison consoles with both codecs?
Sony Pictures are sponsoring a one day event next weekend with key note speakers from Dolby, Auro and DTS all discussing the future of the immersive formats - will DTS make any announcements to the industry insiders regarding MDA/UHD?
Could you comment on both points FilmMixer?
I'm interested to hear your opinion as you are directly involved in this line of work, thank you.
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Old 08-31-2014, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
THX attempted control over speakers as well. ...And subwoofers, and TVs, and DVD/Blu-ray players, and ...

They made some money and had a positive impact.


Their logo is on my amp but it doesn't sound better because of it


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Old 08-31-2014, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by UKTexan View Post
Interesting article linked below regarding Sony pictures fairly recent upgrade of their William Holder theater to incorporate both Dolby Atmos and Auro 3D mixing capabilities.


"The mix team elected to work in Atmos natively rather than start with a 5.1 or 7.1 mix. “They did the Atmos mix, then folded that into Auro; it worked seamlessly and gave them a nice starting point for tweaking the Auro mix. From that, they created their 5.1 mix,” says McCarthy. -


http://www.prosoundnetwork.com/artic...ve-sound/17940


I wonder if this will become the norm, mixing in Atmos and folding down to Auro 3D?
It would certainly offer the consumer the choice and avoid the detriment of a format war if both mixes were to be presented on the same Blu-ray disc.
This presupposes that Auro 3D licensing will become affordable to the masses.
How widespread within the film industry is the use of Harrison consoles with both codecs?
Sony Pictures are sponsoring a one day event next weekend with key note speakers from Dolby, Auro and DTS all discussing the future of the immersive formats - will DTS make any announcements to the industry insiders regarding MDA/UHD?
Could you comment on both points FilmMixer?
I'm interested to hear your opinion as you are directly involved in this line of work, thank you.
I don't think they need to waste space by including both formats. Dolby Atmos can fold or expand to practically anything depending on the metadata and renderer capabilities... and it has more precise control of panning through objects. Auro is outdated. We can debate the benefits or problems with each speaker layout, but the technology and precision of Atmos apparently is superior to traditional channel/matrix based Auro.
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Old 08-31-2014, 03:39 PM
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They made some money and had a positive impact.

Their logo is on my amp but it doesn't sound better because of it


- Rich
Yeah, THX performed over two thousand tests on my pre/pro; I can tell right away.
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Old 08-31-2014, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by UKTexan View Post
Interesting article linked below regarding Sony pictures fairly recent upgrade of their William Holder theater to incorporate both Dolby Atmos and Auro 3D mixing capabilities.


"The mix team elected to work in Atmos natively rather than start with a 5.1 or 7.1 mix. “They did the Atmos mix, then folded that into Auro; it worked seamlessly and gave them a nice starting point for tweaking the Auro mix. From that, they created their 5.1 mix,” says McCarthy. -


http://www.prosoundnetwork.com/artic...ve-sound/17940


I wonder if this will become the norm, mixing in Atmos and folding down to Auro 3D?
It would certainly offer the consumer the choice and avoid the detriment of a format war if both mixes were to be presented on the same Blu-ray disc.
This presupposes that Auro 3D licensing will become affordable to the masses.
How widespread within the film industry is the use of Harrison consoles with both codecs?
Sony Pictures are sponsoring a one day event next weekend with key note speakers from Dolby, Auro and DTS all discussing the future of the immersive formats - will DTS make any announcements to the industry insiders regarding MDA/UHD?
Could you comment on both points FilmMixer?
I'm interested to hear your opinion as you are directly involved in this line of work, thank you.
Well since I'm mixing at Sony right now next to the Holden I have some insight

Only Sony and Universal use Harrison's right now. And between the two there is only one Atmos/Auro dubbing stage (out of a total of 7 large film dubbing stages). In addition to that stage, there are only 3 others in town with both systems installed, and 2 more with Auro only (6 Auro stages in town). vs a total of 11 Atmos rooms.

Technicolor (my normal home) just did two films in both formats with a temporary Auro instal (scaffolding and rigged speakers.). Both started as Atmos native and then the 7.1 fold downs were used to create the Auro.

But the big three large format consoles all support Atmos. And two of the three natively support Auro. The third is an easy workflow. And natively in Pro Tools.

It's up to the studios to decide to release in both formats.

The one person from DTS on the panel that I know, I expect, won't be divulging any info on the consumer market. But MDA will most definitely be discussed. I might attend.... We're being kick off our stage for the day so they can Q and A in our room.

The issue with Auro in the home, IMO, is that the theatrical version requires LCR heights in addition to the additional surround heights. Then add a VOG and I don't think I can see any home iteration gaining mass attraction. It also still only supports arrayed surrounds.

While thebland can afford it, where money is apparently no object for him, I just can't see it being a reality for many hobbyists, even with dedicated rooms.

The use of both codecs for a studio would require dual inventory / releases. I don't see a business model at this time that makes sense... If there are a host of Auro films and content to come, that might make sense.

At this point the content is well in favor of Atmos in terms of sheer titles and announced projects.

But it is still changing....

And MDA is finally coming on line.

But this might be one time when being first to market, with BR, OTT (streaming) and mobile solutions ready to roll, is a definite advantage.

And again, to beat the horse, the Elevation technology will allow many consumers the ability to enjoy immersive sound at home with a minimum of fuss (in relation to the other options.)

Just my .02.

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Old 08-31-2014, 04:12 PM
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Marc, this is great; you must love your job. ...I would too.
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Old 08-31-2014, 04:22 PM
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Well since I'm mixing at Sony right now next to the Holden I have some insight
Thank you FilmMixer for your valuable insight, its great to hear from a professional within the industry.
I half expected you may be attending the immersive event.


Regarding Auro 3D, I have never heard it so cannot comment on the sonic positives/negatives in comparison to Atmos but according to the team behind Auro, objects are currently possible - will be interesting to see how the technology evolves especially with the home implementation.


Link below to article indicating channels and object possibility with pictures of an Auro 3D recording rig:


http://harmonicjunction.com/intervie...logies-part-1/


Personally I have heard Atmos in the theater (Planet of the Apes and Guardians of the Galaxy were the last two movies I watched) and also in the retail demo with the Denon X5200W/definitive combination, based upon both applications of the technology I am certainly looking forward to future movie mixes and hopefully remixes of some of the classics.


Once again thank you for your response.
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Old 08-31-2014, 04:42 PM
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Now that we've all jumped on the "more immersive" bandwagon, I have a question.


Are we more interested in "immersive" or are we more interested in accuracy?


In the video forums, we argue frequently about "looking out a window" vs. the directors' (all of them) intent with lighting, color, etc. It's an art and not always supposed to look like a video shoot.


So while immersive may make you feel like you're in the scene, is that what the director really intends, and if not, have we dropped accuracy for artifact? Seems like a bit of an oxymoron to me.
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Old 08-31-2014, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by UKTexan View Post
Thank you FilmMixer for your valuable insight, its great to hear from a professional within the industry.
I half expected you may be attending the immersive event.


Regarding Auro 3D, I have never heard it so cannot comment on the sonic positives/negatives in comparison to Atmos but according to the team behind Auro, objects are currently possible - will be interesting to see how the technology evolves especially with the home implementation.


Link below to article indicating channels and object possibility with pictures of an Auro 3D recording rig:


http://harmonicjunction.com/intervie...logies-part-1/

Personally I have heard Atmos in the theater (Planet of the Apes and Guardians of the Galaxy were the last two movies I watched) and also in the retail demo with the Denon X5200W/definitive combination, based upon both applications of the technology I am certainly looking forward to future movie mixes and hopefully remixes of some of the classics.


Once again thank you for your response.
Thanks for the link, select quote from that article:
Quote:
It is important to understand what “immersive sound” is. The definition is related to the reproduction of a natural, true 3D sound all around and above the listener. This means that is it not related to an object based technology as Dolby or DTS try to make us believe through their marketing. Immersive sound can be achieved even better and more efficiently with channel based technology over object based technologies. To achieve being immersed, the addition of the third and missing dimension ‘height’ all around and above the audience is key. This means that the speaker layout becomes the most important aspect, and not the way that sound is going to be delivered by a channel or object based technology. The term “immersive sound” was used for the first time in a flyer we made together with Barco in 2010 to launch a new true 3D experience in sound. But because “3D Sound” was used to market “Surround Sound” formats like 5.1 and 7.1, there was too much confusion and a new name was needed. We have chosen the term “immersive sound” because the addition of a good spread of sound in the vertical axis (height) is what is creating that total immersive experience.

What I find interesting is that each height and overhead play roles, so with Dolby Atmos you don't utilize height and instead concentrate on overhead source of sound to supply immersive 3D audio. Of course now depends on where this industry takes us, Atmos being the first out there.

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Old 08-31-2014, 04:58 PM
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While thebland can afford it, where money is apparently no object for him, I just can't see it being a reality for many hobbyists, even with dedicated rooms.

Just my .02.
Let's be clear. Money is always an object. I don't throw it away. There was a lot if consternation, research, etc before my recent updates. I haven't upgraded speakers, DSPs or subs in almost 10 years. My time to move turned out to be now. The relative cost of the 6 height speakers to all the other costs I incurred for the standard 7 channel bed of speakers, room modifications, subs, etc was very, very small.

All of my investments here were well thought out and I expect most to be relevant for many years.

But to be clear, I don't throw away money for the hell of it. I wait, research, decide, then jump in with both feet!

Keep posting. I enjoy the insider perspective!

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Old 08-31-2014, 05:02 PM
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Are we more interested in "immersive" or are we more interested in accuracy?
Accuracy to what?

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Old 08-31-2014, 05:02 PM
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Now that we've all jumped on the "more immersive" bandwagon, I have a question.

Are we more interested in "immersive" or are we more interested in accuracy?

In the video forums, we argue frequently about "looking out a window" vs. the directors' (all of them) intent with lighting, color, etc. It's an art and not always supposed to look like a video shoot.

So while immersive may make you feel like you're in the scene, is that what the director really intends, and if not, have we dropped accuracy for artifact? Seems like a bit of an oxymoron to me.
Probably more of a question for FilmMixer, how does the 3D immersive environment relate to actual recording environments?

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Old 08-31-2014, 05:59 PM
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Accuracy in what the directors' intended vs. what we can produce with processing and manipulation. For example, when listening to a concert the sound is a lot different on the stage than in front of the stage. Does immersive put us in the wrong place or produce an experience different from what the director intended?


I want my experience to be as close and as accurate as possible to what the director intended. That's why I don't like coloration of classic movies because such techniques eliminate the lighting that was so carefully crafted when the film was made. If the directors want to use processing techniques to enhance what they're trying to achieve then I'm fine with it but I really don't want artificial post-processing that detracts from the artist's intent.
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Old 08-31-2014, 06:58 PM
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Accuracy in what the directors' intended vs. what we can produce with processing and manipulation.
There are valid arguments to be made on both sides of the reference vs preference debate. Most people I know use reference as a base line (e.g., where to put speakers) and deviate from there based on their preference (i.e., season to taste).
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For example, when listening to a concert the sound is a lot different on the stage than in front of the stage. Does immersive put us in the wrong place or produce an experience different from what the director intended?
This is out of our control. If a concert has been mixed to put you in the middle of the stage, surrounded by the musicians, you can't reconstruct and audience mix out of it.

If the concert was mixed in one of the new immersive formats that include height content, then that's ideally how it should be played back, IF you want to stick to the intent of the content creators. However, if you find heights distracting, then there's no reason to play back a recording in a manner you don't enjoy.
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If the directors want to use processing techniques to enhance what they're trying to achieve then I'm fine with it but I really don't want artificial post-processing that detracts from the artist's intent.
That's fine, as long as you understand that the post-processing that you find a detraction others consider an enhancement. This is why there is a market for video processing (e.g., Darbee) and surround processing. Doesn't mean you personally have to like (or use) it, just know that others do.

None of this changes with immersive audio. Folks preferring more of a 2D ring of sound around them will stick to the type of speaker layouts we currently use. Those wanting to hear more of a 3D bubble of sound will try the new immersive formats and immersive processing on legacy content. The choice between reference and preference, or somewhere in between, will still continue (with valid arguments on both sides).
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Old 08-31-2014, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Perfectionist2 View Post
Now that we've all jumped on the "more immersive" bandwagon, I have a question.

Are we more interested in "immersive" or are we more interested in accuracy?

In the video forums, we argue frequently about "looking out a window" vs. the directors' (all of them) intent with lighting, color, etc. It's an art and not always supposed to look like a video shoot.

So while immersive may make you feel like you're in the scene, is that what the director really intends, and if not, have we dropped accuracy for artifact? Seems like a bit of an oxymoron to me.
Very simple: We all want a beautiful and poignant experience; visually and auditory.
We want our senses to be fully engaged emotionally as well.
And the more elevating the experience, the more accurate we get to the reality.

After all, watching a movie is like being involved in real life experience, no?
We don't look or search for the small details; we take it all as the full overall verve, verisimilitude.

Last edited by NorthSky; 08-31-2014 at 07:47 PM. Reason: Space
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Old 08-31-2014, 07:45 PM
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Let's be clear. Money is always an object. I don't throw it away. There was a lot if consternation, research, etc before my recent updates. I haven't upgraded speakers, DSPs or subs in almost 10 years. My time to move turned out to be now. The relative cost of the 6 height speakers to all the other costs I incurred for the standard 7 channel bed of speakers, room modifications, subs, etc was very, very small.

All of my investments here were well thought out and I expect most to be relevant for many years.

But to be clear, I don't throw away money for the hell of it. I wait, research, decide, then jump in with both feet!

Keep posting. I enjoy the insider perspective!
You're doing excellent Jeff; don't let anyone putting you down. ...I'm totally with you.
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Old 08-31-2014, 07:53 PM
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I'm not sure these codecs are all about immersion. When I flip between NEO X, PL IIx, and Auro 3D, the DATASAT shows output peaks for all channels. There is far less output in the main rear channels relative to all others in Auro. PL IIx, NEO X have far more rear channel output and activity. But when watching movies, the Auro seemed 'better' than the latter two modes. The DATASAT SSP had a control for AURO 3D 'aggressiveness' and subjectively, 6 on the scale of 15 is best and most natural. Perhaps Atmos up mixing will be similar with less rear channel output?

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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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Old 08-31-2014, 08:39 PM
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I'm not sure these codecs are all about immersion. When I flip between NEO X, PL IIx, and Auro 3D, the DATASAT shows output peaks for all channels. There is far less output in the main rear channels relative to all others in Auro. PL IIx, NEO X have far more rear channel output and activity. But when watching movies, the Auro seemed 'better' than the latter two modes. The DATASAT SSP had a control for AURO 3D 'aggressiveness' and subjectively, 6 on the scale of 15 is best and most natural. Perhaps Atmos up mixing will be similar with less rear channel output?
To be clear, up mixing isn't a codec... native Atmos and Auro add a completely different level of "immersion" than what you will be able to pull off using an upmixing algorythm.
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Old 08-31-2014, 09:23 PM
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If I may go back to the upfiring speakers and Atmos ready discussion. Given that we know the mix is occurring in the AVR and the specs for the upfiring speakers have been released with placement shared by Dolby et al. What is stopping a small well made speaker located in the correct area above your fronts angled at 45 degrees (based on Atlantic Techs specs) from being suitable for use? I am not taking a full sized bookshelf, but a small sealed speaker that could even be a concentric design. Just struggling with the need to buy a $2k receiver and 2 pairs of upfiring speaker modules at $499 each when the speaker doesn't seem to have any secret sauce.

I would think the key would be location/placement. For those of us who can't do overhead ceiling speakers modules are our only hope. Plus based on early listening sessions by those luckier than I am - seemingly the best option.

I had bought heights to add to my system but nixed their installation this weekend after some more thought about all of this. Given limits of this year's units I am going to need those 2 channels in order to do 7.2.4.

Thoughts oh wise AVS members?
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Old 09-01-2014, 01:01 AM
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If I may go back to the upfiring speakers and Atmos ready discussion. Given that we know the mix is occurring in the AVR and the specs for the upfiring speakers have been released with placement shared by Dolby et al. What is stopping a small well made speaker located in the correct area above your fronts angled at 45 degrees (based on Atlantic Techs specs) from being suitable for use? I am not taking a full sized bookshelf, but a small sealed speaker that could even be a concentric design. Just struggling with the need to buy a $2k receiver and 2 pairs of upfiring speaker modules at $499 each when the speaker doesn't seem to have any secret sauce.

I would think the key would be location/placement.
The upfiring speakers have sauce, but it's not so secret anymore. I'm sure one could DIY a suitable substitute, and there's no harm in trying.

A concentric driver seems good, as both Pioneer and Atlantic do that. Other important criteria: the baffle angle (it does not look like 45 deg to me), and the absorptive physical barrier.

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Old 09-01-2014, 04:32 AM
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When they say it's not about the money....

I don't get the controversy. It's a hobby. It's not a life changing event. These upcoming new surround codecs are part of the Allure if this hobby. I assume that's why you're here. These are exciting times in HT Land.

Just buy the speakers and receiver and move forward. If you make 5 decisions regarding these new multi channel formats, likely at least 3 will be correct. And the other 2 mistakes can be fixed when the true answers come to be known.

It's just like business. Act. Don't wait. Keep moving forward.

I'm fully enjoying Auro 3D right now and am set up for Atmos. In fact, if all else fails, the up mixing to all my new height speakers certainly beats 7.1... So, I feel like I am already ahead. I bought 6 additional height speakers. I don't even know if their positioning is right for Atmos with all this talk of hybrid speakers or other designs or positions. If not, I'll have to move them about the ceiling or sell them. But I do know, I'm not sitting still and likely most of my decisions will be correct.

When Blu Ray and HD DVD came out, we all bought in not knowing who'd come out in top. This over analysis will make you crazy. Waiting will make you crazy.

It's not an inexpensive hobby but adding a few small height speakers and receiver with Atmos won't collapse your bank account (if you can afford this hobby in the first place. These are luxury items) and at least in adopting, you're in the mix for all the upcoming fun!
I agree with you - I think you were replying to Dan...
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Old 09-01-2014, 04:35 AM
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By describing how they overcame first mover advantage, you're making my point: they overcame it. A Dolby engineer has to be present during an Atmos mix. DTS-MDA is a plug-in. As well as their Master Audio lossless codec was working out during the infancy of high def disc formats. Heck, their decoders missed two whole generations of players. How good a predictor was that of the current situation on BD?
DTS came out (late) with a 'better' product (on the production side, not consumer) I agree. If they come out with a better product this time, on the consumer side, then they deserve to eclipse Atmos for the home. I just can't see it happening. Not a single movie mixed their way yet... Atmos surging ahead. Sure, you can beat huge FMA sometimes, but not routinely.
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Old 09-01-2014, 04:46 AM
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If I may go back to the upfiring speakers and Atmos ready discussion. Given that we know the mix is occurring in the AVR and the specs for the upfiring speakers have been released with placement shared by Dolby et al. What is stopping a small well made speaker located in the correct area above your fronts angled at 45 degrees (based on Atlantic Techs specs) from being suitable for use? I am not taking a full sized bookshelf, but a small sealed speaker that could even be a concentric design. Just struggling with the need to buy a $2k receiver and 2 pairs of upfiring speaker modules at $499 each when the speaker doesn't seem to have any secret sauce.
IDK the answer to your question, but all of the Atmos speaker modules I have seen have the driver inside a deep recess (presumably to limit in some way forward dispersion of the sound at lower frequencies?). If this recess is an essential component of the design, then this would seem to preclude using a 'regular' small bookshelf speaker as an alternative.
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