Dolby Demos Atmos for Cinema and Home - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 513 Old 09-01-2014, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
If I may go back to the upfiring speakers and Atmos ready discussion. Given that we know the mix is occurring in the AVR and the specs for the upfiring speakers have been released with placement shared by Dolby et al. What is stopping a small well made speaker located in the correct area above your fronts angled at 45 degrees (based on Atlantic Techs specs) from being suitable for use? I am not taking a full sized bookshelf, but a small sealed speaker that could even be a concentric design. Just struggling with the need to buy a $2k receiver and 2 pairs of upfiring speaker modules at $499 each when the speaker doesn't seem to have any secret sauce.

I would think the key would be location/placement. For those of us who can't do overhead ceiling speakers modules are our only hope. Plus based on early listening sessions by those luckier than I am - seemingly the best option.

I had bought heights to add to my system but nixed their installation this weekend after some more thought about all of this. Given limits of this year's units I am going to need those 2 channels in order to do 7.2.4.

Thoughts oh wise AVS members?
If I'm reading your question right, you're asking about using a relatively inexpensive "direct firing" speaker instead of a more expensive "up firing" speaker.
That should work fine. That's why both types are included in the various speaker layout diagrams, and both types are supported by receivers and pre/pros. While some people prefer concentric (coaxial) speaker designs, there's no reason to expect that many of the traditional non-coaxial designs would be inappropriate. However, wide-dispersion designs tend to work better because they simplify speaker orientation: they don't have to be as carefully aimed relative to the listening area in order to produce quality audio over a large region.

Edited to add:
Rereading your post, it does look like you're asking about replacing specially-designed up firing speakers with generic speakers which are up-firing. The problem there seems to be that the specially-designed speakers have a relatively limited dispersion and frequency output. As a result, most of their output is directed up toward the ceiling and a much smaller portion goes directly toward the listening position.. In contrast, most conventionally designed speakers have a very wide dispersion, so that you'll be hearing a lot of sound coming directly from the direction of those speakers. While Dolby has included psycho-acoustic frequency filters to include cues which help to make the direct sounds seem to come from overhead, that's going to struggle to overcome the relatively loud volume. It's also going to vary with effectiveness depending on the individual: different people have differently shaped ears. The generic frequency shaping that Dolby uses is going to vary in effectiveness as ear shapes differ from the generic model that they used.
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post #452 of 513 Old 09-01-2014, 05:18 AM
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Thanks - this hobby is definitely a love hate relationship regarding my bank account - mostly hate. The cost of early adaption and reading AVS. For those in the US - enjoy your Labor Day holiday.
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post #453 of 513 Old 09-01-2014, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
DTS came out (late) with a 'better' product (on the production side, not consumer) I agree.
Which was my point: by not making virtual height processing agnostic to different modes, Dolby leaves themselves open to not only an alternative but to a possibly 'better' alternative. Why put themselves in that position?

Which is why ALL their previous processing technologies have been universal, even with competitor's codecs (PLIIz can be applied to DTS HD-MA soundtracks). Hopefully this is a limitation of 1st gen products and not a Dolby edict.
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post #454 of 513 Old 09-01-2014, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Which was my point: by not making virtual height processing agnostic to different modes, Dolby leaves themselves open to not only an alternative but to a possibly 'better' alternative. Why put themselves in that position?

Which is why ALL their previous processing technologies have been universal, even with competitor's codecs (PLIIz can be applied to DTS HD-MA soundtracks). Hopefully this is a limitation of 1st gen products and not a Dolby edict.
Good point. So Dan would get his Utopian dream where companies give away their patented tech for free (But not for Dan's altruistic reasons - just to protect their good, old-fashioned instinct for profit.) Or they could license their Atmos tech I guess...

I still think it's moot. Dolby are so far ahead that FMA is getting more and more and more potent as each day goes by without even a hint from their competitors when, if ever, we will see their format in AVRs.


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post #455 of 513 Old 09-01-2014, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
So Dan would get his Utopian dream where companies give away their patented tech for free (But not for Dan's altruistic reasons - just to protect their good, old-fashioned instinct for profit.) Or they could license their Atmos tech I guess...
Dolby didn't have to give away their PLIIx patent nor license it to companies like DTS and Apple in order for consumers to apply surround processing to Master Audio tracks on Blu-ray or AAC tracks from iTunes.

BTW, as with their height virtualization, do you think Dolby should likewise limit their headphone virtualization to Dolby codecs only?

Sanjay
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post #456 of 513 Old 09-01-2014, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
I still think it's moot. Dolby are so far ahead that FMA is getting more and more and more potent as each day goes by without even a hint from their competitors when, if ever, we will see their format in AVRs.
There you go again, thinking Dolby has won it all, yet no media, a few speaker companies on board. Yep you'll never have to replace your AVR ever again.

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post #457 of 513 Old 09-01-2014, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Dolby didn't have to give away their PLIIx patent nor license it to companies like DTS and Apple in order for consumers to apply surround processing to Master Audio tracks on Blu-ray or AAC tracks from iTunes.

BTW, as with their height virtualization, do you think Dolby should likewise limit their headphone virtualization to Dolby codecs only?
I've already conceded, Sanjay, but I did it with such subtlety you missed it


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post #458 of 513 Old 09-01-2014, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post
There you go again, thinking Dolby has won it all, yet no media, a few speaker companies on board. Yep you'll never have to replace your AVR ever again.
I think Dolby are so far ahead I can't see them being caught, is all. I expect to replace my AVR in 18-24 months, which is why I am going for a "cheap" solution this month in the form of the Denion X4100W.


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post #459 of 513 Old 09-01-2014, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
I think Dolby are so far ahead I can't see them being caught, is all. I expect to replace my AVR in 18-24 months, which is why I am going for a "cheap" solution this month in the form of the Denion X4100W.
Can I have your 4100 after you're done with it?

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post #460 of 513 Old 09-01-2014, 12:28 PM
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Can I have your 4100 after you're done with it?
Well you could, Dan, but it's 240v/50Hz, so it won’t work where you are...


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post #461 of 513 Old 09-01-2014, 01:45 PM
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From this DTS-UHD press release:
Quote:

DTS-UHD Benefits:
  • Environmentally compensated audio rendering allows consumers to hear audio directionality and dimensionality more precise than ever before possible
  • Object control enables consumers to interact with key objects within the audio mix and adjust them to preference
  • Customized rendering designed for arbitrary speaker layouts enables consumers to adapt their AV system to their own home environment rather than pre-determined speaker layouts
These benefits would be well received by many with existing HT's.
Hopefully, a mainstream consumer product will be released that provides them.
DTS may not pull it off, but if they do, Dolby will need a response.
The determination of a victor (and there may never really be one), is premature.

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post #462 of 513 Old 09-01-2014, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
The upfiring speakers have sauce, but it's not so secret anymore. I'm sure one could DIY a suitable substitute, and there's no harm in trying. A concentric driver seems good, as both Pioneer and Atlantic do that. Other important criteria: the baffle angle (it does not look like 45 deg to me), and the absorptive physical barrier.
Roger,

I transformed a small room (13 x 12 x 9 ) for the kids with seven KEF LS50 and am getting the Marantz SR-7009 AVR. I am looking for your opinion on what to do so I can make it ATMOS ready!

One issue is that I can't install speakers in the ceiling so here are my options:

- Klipsch Synergy S-20 Premium WDST Surround Speakers (Pair)

- KEF VENTURA 6

- B&W AM-1

- Tannoy Di5 DC

Also since these will be mounted high on the wall do I need four or would two be enought?

My humble Cinema
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post #463 of 513 Old 09-01-2014, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Well you could, Dan, but it's 240v/50Hz, so it won’t work where you are...
But it will be perfectly working here, so I volunteer.

Hugo


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post #464 of 513 Old 09-01-2014, 02:12 PM
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Roger,

I transformed a small room (13 x 12 x 9 ) for the kids with seven KEF LS50 and am getting the Marantz SR-7009 AVR. I am looking for your opinion on what to do so I can make it ATMOS ready!

One issue is that I can't install speakers in the ceiling so here are my options:

- Klipsch Synergy S-20 Premium WDST Surround Speakers (Pair)

- KEF VENTURA 6

- B&W AM-1

- Tannoy Di5 DC

Also since these will be mounted high on the wall do I need four or would two be enough?
Depending on how the KEFs are mounted, you might consider adding upfiring modules.

Roger

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post #465 of 513 Old 09-01-2014, 05:32 PM
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Sorry if this has been asked before. I have prewired my new construction home for front "height" and "wide" speakers (in addition to the reg. 7.1 sound). I have 4 identical bookshelf speakers for the height and wide. Would the bookshelf speakers firing towards (just using 2 of the 4 for height) the listener be ok with adding 2 rear in-ceiling speakers firing down to complete the Atmos "experience." I won't hook up the wides for now. Thanks.
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Originally Posted by wt61443 View Post
Sorry if this has been asked before. I have prewired my new construction home for front "height" and "wide" speakers (in addition to the reg. 7.1 sound). I have 4 identical bookshelf speakers for the height and wide. Would the bookshelf speakers firing towards (just using 2 of the 4 for height) the listener be ok with adding 2 rear in-ceiling speakers firing down to complete the Atmos "experience." I won't hook up the wides for now. Thanks.
It's not the absolute best way to do it, but it is possible as long as the top layer speakers are within the acceptable angle range established by Dolby. The rear in-ceilings would need to timbre match, of course. You could also pre-wire for frontal in-ceiling tops at the correct locations if you ever upgrade your Atmos decoder to one that can do more than four ceiling outputs (the maximum is 10).

There will be more information around CEDIA.

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post #467 of 513 Old 09-02-2014, 02:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post
But it will be perfectly working here, so I volunteer.

Hugo
LOL. By the time I swap it, Gen 2 Atmos will be here and nobody will want it

I do have a mint condition Onkyo 5509 for sale though if you know anyone who wants one


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post #468 of 513 Old 09-02-2014, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
From this DTS-UHD press release:


"Environmentally compensated audio rendering allows consumers to hear audio directionality and dimensionality more precise than ever before possible

Object control enables consumers to interact with key objects within the audio mix and adjust them to preference

Customized rendering designed for arbitrary speaker layouts enables consumers to adapt their AV system to their own home environment rather than pre-determined speaker layouts"

These benefits would be well received by many with existing HT's.
Hopefully, a mainstream consumer product will be released that provides them.
DTS may not pull it off, but if they do, Dolby will need a response.
The determination of a victor (and there may never really be one), is premature.

- Rich
All three of those benefits are achievable with Atmos.

#1 is a beneft if using objects and metadata to reproduce sound

#2 ... Atmos supports object types in the metadata. It has not been a part of cinema Atmos up to this point. But if implemented Atmos can do the same thing.

#3 .... That is mostly a function of the AVR... To achieve speaker remapping the AVR needs to gather precise speaker positions and implement those measurements correctly in any kind of remapping technology. The Atmos rendering engine could benefit front the same type of processing.

If DTS is planning on creating a new "in house" tech to do so remains to be seen.

In the end it will all come down to content.

Just my .02.
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post #469 of 513 Old 09-02-2014, 10:02 AM
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Bonjour Cher Keith,

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
...

I do have a mint condition Onkyo 5509 for sale though if you know anyone who wants one
Isn't that an Onkyo 5509 with an Audyssey Pro licence included?

Amts,

H.


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post #470 of 513 Old 09-02-2014, 10:16 AM
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Hi Marc,

Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
...
In the end it will all come down to content.

Just my .02.
Inevitably... but then also comes immediately a 2nd notion : when will this content be available?

As IMHO the Dolby Atmos marketing campaign is exceptionally successful. Now something has to happen soon as far as content is concerned, or it will end up being "un feu de paille", a flashlight.

Hugo


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post #471 of 513 Old 09-02-2014, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post
Hi Marc,



Inevitably... but then also comes immediately a 2nd notion : when will this content be available?

As IMHO the Dolby Atmos marketing campaign is exceptionally successful. Now something has to happen soon as far as content is concerned, or it will end up being "un feu de paille", a flashlight.

Hugo
I don't think Dolby has done much to market Atmos at the consumer/retail level at all so far. I know some of the AVR companies are supposed to have demo rooms set up at Best Buy/Magnolia (in the USA) but that isn't much. Dolby should mount a Dolby Atmos Inside retail campaign much like the Intel Inside campaign Intel started years ago. So when a consumer is looking to purchase an AVR, SSP, speakers, BD player, BD movie/video, sound bar, headphones, TV, car radio, computer, boom box, iPod, smart phone, whatever..., the consumer checks to see if the product they are purchasing supports Atmos. Dolby could offer some MDF to get the CE makers to put a Dolby Atmos Inside sticker on their Atmos products, do joint advertising, and provide spiffs to the retail sales teams. Dolby should make Dolby and Atmos ubiquitous in order to crush the competition.

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post #472 of 513 Old 09-02-2014, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post
Bonjour Cher Keith,



Isn't that an Onkyo 5509 with an Audyssey Pro licence included?

Amts,

H.
Gosh - I’d forgotten that! yes it is! Merci bien!


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post #473 of 513 Old 09-02-2014, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post
Hi Marc,



Inevitably... but then also comes immediately a 2nd notion : when will this content be available?

As IMHO the Dolby Atmos marketing campaign is exceptionally successful. Now something has to happen soon as far as content is concerned, or it will end up being "un feu de paille", a flashlight.

Hugo
"Flash in the pan" is a good translation of 'un feu de paille". (Literally a 'straw fire' for the benefit of monolinguals).


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post #474 of 513 Old 09-02-2014, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kokishin View Post
I don't think Dolby has done much to market Atmos at the consumer/retail level at all so far. I know some of the AVR companies are supposed to have demo rooms set up at Best Buy/Magnolia (in the USA) but that isn't much. Dolby should mount a Dolby Atmos Inside retail campaign much like the Intel Inside campaign Intel started years ago. So when a consumer is looking to purchase an AVR, SSP, speakers, BD player, BD movie/video, sound bar, headphones, TV, car radio, computer, boom box, iPod, smart phone, whatever..., the consumer checks to see if the product they are purchasing supports Atmos. Dolby could offer some MDF to get the CE makers to put a Dolby Atmos Inside sticker on their Atmos products, do joint advertising, and provide spiffs to the retail sales teams. Dolby should make Dolby and Atmos ubiquitous in order to crush the competition.
While there are products on the shelf, it has always been my understanding that Atmos doesn't "officially" launch until CEDIA....

While there is much discussion and information on these boards, remember where things are.
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post #476 of 513 Old 09-02-2014, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post
Hi Marc,



Inevitably... but then also comes immediately a 2nd notion : when will this content be available?

As IMHO the Dolby Atmos marketing campaign is exceptionally successful. Now something has to happen soon as far as content is concerned, or it will end up being "un feu de paille", a flashlight.

Hugo
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
While there are products on the shelf, it has always been my understanding that Atmos doesn't "officially" launch until CEDIA....

While there is much discussion and information on these boards, remember where things are.
Understood and agree. I was just thinking ahead (a little). I just took some exception to Hugo's comment: As IMHO the Dolby Atmos marketing campaign is exceptionally successful. Presumably, Dolby is just about to ramp up their marketing campaign.

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post #477 of 513 Old 09-02-2014, 11:47 AM
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Depending on how the KEFs are mounted, you might consider adding upfiring modules.
I can mount them on the ceiling not in the ceiling! I would think that it would be better than upfiring modules?

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post #478 of 513 Old 09-02-2014, 11:48 AM
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So I posted thsi in the wrong forum so here you are ATMOS watch out


Trinnov Audio partners with Auro Technologies to Bring Immersive Sound in 3D to Home Cinema






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Trinnov Audio Partners with Auro Technologies to Bring Immersive Sound in 3D to Home Cinema

Trinnov Audio announced today a partnership agreement with Auro Technologies. The agreement integrates the Auro Technologies’ software into the new and leading Trinnov 3D AV Preamplifier Altitude32 and will enable to bring the Auro-3D® immersive sound format within the reach of consumers. A sneak preview of the result of this cooperation will be offered at the Auro Technologies booth at IFA Berlin and at CEDIA Expo Denver.

"Working with Trinnov Audio, pioneer in the field of 3D research, will allow everyone to enjoy the most immersive Auro-3D® sound experience at home. We’re looking forward to expand this relationship by cooperating on other ground-breaking products in the years to come", said Wilfried Van Baelen, CEO of Auro Technologies.

Already in 2001, Trinnov Audio achieved the world’s first high-spatial-resolution 3D sound chain from 3D-recording to 3D-reproduction over 24 loudspeakers and has since then, been continuously contributing to 3D audio at the highest scientific level, with a portfolio of over 50 patents.

Auro Technologies are the creators of the Auro-3D® format, which has revolutionised the cinema industry with true 3D sound, called immersive sound. This exciting move from two-dimensional Surround sound (5.1/7.1) format to Auro-3D® is a break-through achieved by adding the missing third dimension of height in front of and all around the listener. The unique Auro-3D® speaker layouts deliver an immersive and captivating sound experience around the listener and represent the next step in sound evolution. "We shaped the Altitude32 leaving nothing to chance: high channel count, huge processing capabilities to meet the highest technical requirements, and exclusive patented technologies to unleash the full potential of immersive sound, regardless of formats and speaker layouts, turning the Altituted32 into a real 3D sound virtuoso. The Altitude32 will place the listener in a cocoon of natural sound, allowing the listener to be doused in a new world of immersive sound with Auro-3D®," said Arnaud Laborie, Trinnov Audio’s CEO.

The flexible room correction system of the Altitude32, i.e. its capacity to virtually reposition the speakers to the recommended positions to compensate for room shape constraints, optimises spatial accuracy and immersion and allows a maximum flexibility in the installation and system design.

Moreover, thanks to its capability to manage any number of subwoofers and up to 4-ways speakers, the Trinnov Altitude32 is the ideal partner to demonstrate the real immersive 3D sound experience of Auro Technologies and leaves the high resolution audio transmitted via the Auro-Codec® intact.

This latest announcement is part of Auro Technologies’ strategy to bring the Auro-3D® experience out of the cinema and directly to the consumer, via home cinema, gaming, car and mobile platforms.

A preview of the Altitude32 will be available at the Auro Technologies demo room in Hall 25, booth 147 at IFA – Berlin – from 5 till 10 September 2014 – and in the HPA room 702 & 704 at CEDIA Expo – Denver – from 10 till 13 September 2014.

About Auro Technologies
Auro Technologies is a spin-off of the Galaxy Studios Group and owner of the Auro-3D® Technology Suite. The Auro-3D® Concept and Listening Formats are designed by Wilfried Van Baelen, founder and CEO of Galaxy Studios and Auro Technologies. Galaxy Studios is renowned worldwide for its state-of-the-art leadership in audio innovation for music and sound for film. The Auro-3D® suite offers ground-breaking, easy-to-use and unprecedented levels of sound reproduction capabilities to the professional, automotive, broadcast and consumer electronics markets (such as gaming, smart phones, multimedia PC, notebooks, tablets, audio players, digital TV, media libraries and packaged media). For more information, visit the Auro-3D® website.




PRESS CONTACTS Trinnov Audio, Arnaud Destinay
arnaud.destinay@trinnov.com / +33 (0) 1 47 06 61 37
TRINNOV Audio

FRANCE: 5 rue Edmond Michelet - 93360 Neuilly Plaisance / USA: Curt Hoyt - Huntington Beach - CA 92649 Copyright © 2014 - Trinnov Audio, all rights reserved.
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Dolby®, Dolby Atmos® and the double-D symbol are trademarks of Dolby Laboratories.

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post #479 of 513 Old 09-02-2014, 11:48 AM
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I don't think Dolby has done much to market Atmos at the consumer/retail level at all so far.
Right, in late June they let manufacturers create buzz, in early August they let the press spread the word, hopefully soon Dolby themselves will issue an official press release. Rather than waiting for CEDIA, wish it would happen tomorrow.

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post #480 of 513 Old 09-02-2014, 11:51 AM
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Wish it would happen yesterday!

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