Dolby Demos Atmos for Cinema and Home - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 530 Old 08-17-2014, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by JWhip View Post
I agree with Ralph. Recall that the speakers were unknown prototypes. I for one would love to hear what this system can do with top notch speakers. I would also love to finally attend one of these HT events that isn't so loud. Makes me wonder if some of these engineers can hear anymore. I guess I will have to bring around SPL stuff like Scott to check for sound levels. I am convinced that Atmos at home has a viable future. However, we need better demos and better mixes to show it off. The Star Trek demo left a lot to be desired.
The Dolby screening room in Burbank is tuned in accordance to industry standards..

Personally I do find the room to be a little bright, but that's not unusual for a room that size with the speakers they use..

However, it is used for many events, and even for print/track checks.....

It is also a complete mixing stage where they have done several Atmos up mixes..

The demo's they used were as I've experienced them in other venues, including the ones I work in.

Star Trek is a loud mix from the get go.. while it might not be the best choice for a demo, it reproduced as intended.. this is the third actual theater I've heard the film in..

The trailers and Red Bull demo sounded fantastic...

Just my .02...
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post #92 of 530 Old 08-17-2014, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by bass excavator View Post
I also feel the same way as you in regard to Atmos. Just to add, I feel that lossless audio will be more of a difference if you will than object-based audio in a home environment, even if the two are not the same thing. The industry is always in for a change and like 3D, few people will opt for the proper Atmos setup which is sounds like what will be required for the intended experience of this new audio phenomenon. Atmos will be great for custom work in dedicated theaters but it will be a hard sell to the mass consumer crowd. Let's remember that the average consumer.....HTIB, soundbar, Netflix et all, are who drive the millions or billions in the industry.
The setup and complexity will be too much for the vast majority of people and more speakers than 5.1 and will also prove to be a very hard sell. I do see big fanfare regarding Atmos in Cedia 2015 and then poof...the fanfare will subside without much notice outside the AVS forum circles.

I am happy Dolby Labs invited a panel of people to audition Atmos using a home environment but after reading the findings of the panel or at least getting an enthusiastic vibe from their experience, it appears to me, at least, that Atmos is not that much of a big deal in the home. I simply don't have much hope for this technology in regards to the mass consumer.

I would always put my added money into quality gear that will make my home system sound and look that much better. For those who do put their money in a proper Atmos-based setup I'm sure the immersion will be better than 5.1/7.1...I just don't feel that it will be overwhelmingly better, that's all.

Agreed. For the custom install and dedicated home theater crowd this may be a very serious and worthwhile upgrade. Unfortunately I don't see it targeting the average Joe with a passing a/v interest. I have no horse in the race to its success or failure. If it catches on and becomes easier to set up utilizing specialty speakers and room correction perhaps I will take a look. I just don't want to bust my chops for a marginal upgrade.

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post #93 of 530 Old 08-17-2014, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Ralph Potts View Post
Greetings,

As I pointed out to Mark I honestly think that this is much less of an issue when compared to the differences we heard during the home theater demo. That is something I find to be more important, relevant and worth investigation.

Regards,
Hi Ralph

Thanks for the response. I agree with you that the implementation of Dolby Atmos in a normal home theater environment is the key yardstick that will determine the fate of the technology. I for one am going to wait for a couple of years to see how the technology evolves before I go out and "upgrade" me pre-pro or AVR's. I've been burnt before when adopting emerging technology and this time I'm going to sit on the sidelines and watch for a while!

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post #94 of 530 Old 08-17-2014, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post
Thanks for the response! I think that I would also prefer the ceiling mounted speakers if I had the choice. I am not a fan of sound radiated off of walls such as a sound bar.
No sound bar @ the Dolby Atmos room demo; Dolby Atmos up-firing speakers towards the ceiling, reflecting from it, and not off the walls. ...And four of them; atop the two front mains, and atop the two rear (back) surrounds.
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post #95 of 530 Old 08-17-2014, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee Weber View Post
The speaker in the pic looks like a Triad.
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
That's what I said to FilmMixer at the Burbank demo.
http://www.engadget.com/products/tri...helf-speakers/
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post #96 of 530 Old 08-17-2014, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Ralph Potts View Post
Greetings,

For clarification I didn't say that problems with the setup isn't a valid theory, my point in agreeing with Rich (apparently I misunderstood?) was that until we can determine what the cause was than seeing setup as the problem is theoretical (conjecture).

Just to be clear...


Regards,
Thanks, that was my point.

I suppose it comes from being an engineer.
You can observe a problem, establish a possible cause, but until it is corrected, it is conjecture.
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post #97 of 530 Old 08-17-2014, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
No BD players currently available nor announced with Atmos decoding; maybe someday.
Most probably, and from Oppo.
...Oppo models BDP-123D and BDP-125D ... or 113DA and 115DA (Darbee Atmos).
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post #98 of 530 Old 08-17-2014, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
I'm sure you guys all remember the first time you heard a 5.1 movie in your room back in the 90's. The difference between 5.1 and Pro Logic was stunning. Night and day. Easily obvious to anyone - even those who could care less about HT.

From reading these impressions it looks like Atmos is not even close to that kind of upgrade. Maybe our current systems already come close to maxing out what our ears are capable of?

I love our 2 local Atmos theaters but I think most of the noticeable improvement is due to better subs, better speakers, leather recliners, and transducers.

Still, thanks for the awesome thread and I'll be staying tuned.
'Top Gun' in audio/video dealer's demo rooms, back in 1988.

Methinks that Dolby Atmos is much huger than what Dolby Pro Logic was back then.
We just entered the 3D world here, with elevated standard. That impact is much more immersing than DPL.
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post #99 of 530 Old 08-17-2014, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Hey Dan, I didn't see your post until I posted mine. I sure hope you are right - and I hope that the in ceiling speakers turn out to be the better option since I could do that. My front mains are too tall to use the ceiling reflecting speakers.
Your home theater room is awesome! ...I am 100% certain that your surround experience will be that much more immersing (elevated) when you upgrade to Dolby Atmos. ...Just remove some of them absorbing acoustic panels from your ceiling, to install four, or six Dolby Atmos on-ceiling overhead speakers.
Be prepared, and all your family & friends, to be 'elevated' (blown away from overhead). ...In 3D spatial immersion.
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post #100 of 530 Old 08-17-2014, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
No sound bar @ the Dolby Atmos room demo; Dolby Atmos up-firing speakers towards the ceiling, reflecting from it, and not off the walls. ...And four of them; atop the two front mains, and atop the two rear (back) surrounds.
Right.... Same concept.
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post #101 of 530 Old 08-17-2014, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
100% agree. It feels like they ran out of time and cut back on features. Atmos and object based audio should have more to offer than ceiling channels; FilmMixer hints that there is more to come.

If 2015 brings these advancements and requires new AVR's, that would rightfully upset early adopters.


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There is no escaping; this will happen, 100%. ...It's the nature of surround sound evolution*.

* Except for LCD LED and OLED Ultra Curved HDTVs. ...Moving pictures.
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post #102 of 530 Old 08-17-2014, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
In a family vacation home, I have 4 Revel M20's and matching center channel mount at 9 feet in an A-frame.
This system has a great theater feeling, the sound is immersive. So if you speakers are already high, then the addition of height channels may not be as dramatic.
Just lower your surrounds.

* Tough crowd, get with the new Atmos program, or stay home stuck with dull 2D dimension.
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post #103 of 530 Old 08-17-2014, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
There is no escaping; this will happen, 100%. ...It's the nature of surround sound evolution*.

* Except for LCD LED and OLED Ultra Curved HDTVs. ...Moving pictures.

It is not every year, that products are released that are going are likely to be obsolete in a year.
Support for Object placement in 7.1 systems, HDCP 2.2.
It's fine to upgrade, but I will wait until this stuff settles down.


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post #104 of 530 Old 08-17-2014, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post
Right.... Same concept.
DSP for sure, when using the up-firing speakers. ...But different with the overhead ones; I just don't know exactly the amount of processing up there.
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post #105 of 530 Old 08-17-2014, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveMcLain View Post
What will the automatic setup utilities and the overall adjustments be like in the Atmos capable receivers when they come to market? Will these utilities make it easier to make the systems sound more consistent? How will they work?
But that, are the discoveries we are going to make as we go along.
And each manufacturer will be implementing their own.

Dolby just came up with a concept; it started @ the Cinema Theaters, here and there, quite a few years ago, and now is coming @ home. This is just the beginning; it'll take time to mature and adjust in all our rooms, because no two rooms are alike. And this has been since the beginning of time; the Big Bang theory and the theory of relativity in the universe. ...And the speed of light "c" which is just about to be redefined.

We jump, or we wait for the next big wave...
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post #106 of 530 Old 08-17-2014, 06:54 PM
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First of all, sufficiently high side wall speakers would likely work ok for a height layer, depending on the size of the room and the relative distance to the sitting position. The ability to setup the individual receiver specifically to the location of a person's existing speakers is CRUCIAL for a proper setup. If they have not included this in the Atmos receiver, I would suggest everyone skip this nonsense and DO NOT BUY the receivers coming out.

Up-firing speakers... again simply silly nonsense. If you are buying these, then you are simply too lazy or simply not interested enough in a home theater to care to do it right.

If you can't do ceiling speakers or sufficient numbers of speakers, skip this whole concept of object oriented sound. You will simply be wasting your money.

Blazar!
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post #107 of 530 Old 08-17-2014, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Just lower your surrounds.***
That's not always possible (my surround rears, for instance, are each wall-mounted above a leaning bookcase), and it might not be sonically desirable, either.

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post #108 of 530 Old 08-17-2014, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
'Top Gun' in audio/video dealer's demo rooms, back in 1988.

Methinks that Dolby Atmos is much huger than what Dolby Pro Logic was back then.
We just entered the 3D world here, with elevated standard. That impact is much more immersing than DPL.

I was talking about how much better 5.1 was than PL, no PL itself. My first 5.1 experience was the movie Heat - what a great introduction into 5.1!!


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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Your home theater room is awesome! ...I am 100% certain that your surround experience will be that much more immersing (elevated) when you upgrade to Dolby Atmos. ...Just remove some of them absorbing acoustic panels from your ceiling, to install four, or six Dolby Atmos on-ceiling overhead speakers.
Be prepared, and all your family & friends, to be 'elevated' (blown away from overhead). ...In 3D spatial immersion.
Thanks!

The problem is I really like my ceiling panels for 2 channel stereo. The panels only drop down to about 5-6 inches from the ceiling, I am hoping I can find a speaker bracket that will attach between the panels and then the speakers will be below the panels. Just one of many trade-offs/compromises to think about.

I am lucky though, installing speakers on the ceiling will be easy since the room next to my HT room is unfinished and I have easy access to run speaker wire between the joists and my components are in that room too.
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post #109 of 530 Old 08-17-2014, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
It is not every year, that products are released that are going are likely to be obsolete in a year.
Support for Object placement in 7.1 systems, HDCP 2.2.
It's fine to upgrade, but I will wait until this stuff settles down.


- Rich
You are a wise man Rich; that was already my decision. ...Besides, by then we might have a greater chance to see some smart Blu-ray movies released with intelligently done Dolby Atmos surround sound elevated 3D spatial encoding.

And that is why Dolby Surround "upmixer" will play an important role @ the beginning; to give a taste.

* The members in this thread here are different than the ones in that other thread; Dolby Atmos official thread for home. ...Different in a very good way, IMO.
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post #110 of 530 Old 08-17-2014, 07:04 PM
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Would there be any benefit at all to using an Atmos compatible receiver with out the extra channels? For instance, a lot if people are obviously going to have to upgrade their AVR's and buy speakers but most people won't have the money to do it all at once. So they'll likely spend some time with the AVR but no speakers. Also a lot of the new Atmos AVR's don't even have enough speaker jacks and/or preouts for the required number of channels.
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post #111 of 530 Old 08-17-2014, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by blazar View Post
First of all, sufficiently high side wall speakers would likely work ok for a height layer, depending on the size of the room and the relative distance to the sitting position. The ability to setup the individual receiver specifically to the location of a person's existing speakers is CRUCIAL for a proper setup. If they have not included this in the Atmos receiver, I would suggest everyone skip this nonsense and DO NOT BUY the receivers coming out.

Up-firing speakers... again simply silly nonsense. If you are buying these, then you are simply too lazy or simply not interested enough in a home theater to care to do it right.

If you can't do ceiling speakers or sufficient numbers of speakers, skip this whole concept of object oriented sound. You will simply be wasting your money.
You and I would be the perfect people for Dolby Atmos people to invite us @ their next improved demos.
...And with free access to all movies.
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post #112 of 530 Old 08-17-2014, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post
That's not always possible (my surround rears, for instance, are each wall-mounted above a leaning bookcase), and it might not be sonically desirable, either.
I know exactly what you're saying.

* The level of new experimentation is only restricted as our will and imagination would allow us to.

-> I've been @ it myself since 1969 when I first built my own center back surround speaker (mono).
...And never let it go; I was first endorser/explorer of all new surround technologies since then.
And I drilled many holes and filled them back too. ...I put speakers as low as 24" from the floor (tilt-up),
and as high as the ceiling (about 9 feet high - tilt-down), and everywhere else between.
I've been in hospitals and restaurants with speakers right inside their ceilings, up to 14 feet high.
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post #113 of 530 Old 08-17-2014, 07:25 PM
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Elevator music, Dolby Atmos it ain't. ...It is truly elevated.
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post #114 of 530 Old 08-17-2014, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
I was talking about how much better 5.1 was than PL, no PL itself. My first 5.1 experience was the movie Heat - what a great introduction into 5.1!!
I see.

'Heat' with Bob De Niro and Al Pacino and directed by Michael Mann : 1995 (the year Dolby Digital/AC3 was first introduced).

'The Thing' with Kurt Russell and directed by John Carpenter : 1982 (the year Dolby Surround was first introduced to the public).
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post #115 of 530 Old 08-17-2014, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by BNestico View Post
Would there be any benefit at all to using an Atmos compatible receiver with out the extra channels? For instance, a lot if people are obviously going to have to upgrade their AVR's and buy speakers but most people won't have the money to do it all at once. So they'll likely spend some time with the AVR but no speakers. Also a lot of the new Atmos AVR's don't even have enough speaker jacks and/or preouts for the required number of channels.
If you don't have the money to do the speakers for Atmos... save up and get a 2nd generation Atmos receiver along with the speakers. More than likely you'll get a "proper" HDMI 2.0 implementation and DTS-UHD for good measure.

Otherwise, Atmos isn't going to do anything for your current setup.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #116 of 530 Old 08-17-2014, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by BNestico View Post
Would there be any benefit at all to using an Atmos compatible receiver with out the extra channels? For instance, a lot if people are obviously going to have to upgrade their AVR's and buy speakers but most people won't have the money to do it all at once. So they'll likely spend some time with the AVR but no speakers. Also a lot of the new Atmos AVR's don't even have enough speaker jacks and/or preouts for the required number of channels.
Yamaha has one AV receiver with eleven (11) channels of amplification. With Dolby Atmos we can do 7.1.4

Several AV receivers have nine (9) channels of amplification. With Dolby Atmos we can do 5.1.4

...Without additional amps.

____________

* If buying a new Dolby Atmos AV receiver with an already 5.1-channel system setup (assumption),
then yes you can still use the new receiver. ...And later on add the four small Dolby Atmos up-firing speakers, or four on or in-ceiling speakers (coaxial ones for example). ...Small, don't have to be big as their X-over is cutting off @ 180Hz anyway and the bass is redirected to your front mains, and then to your sub(s) for the remaining portion that you set up your receiver's speakers' crossover @.
And then, just buy another stereo amp, or two, when you go nine (5.1.4) or eleven channels (7.1.4) with a Dolby Atmos AV receiver having only seven channels of amplification inside (5.1.2).
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post #117 of 530 Old 08-17-2014, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
If you don't have the money to do the speakers for Atmos... save up and get a 2nd generation Atmos receiver along with the speakers. More than likely you'll get a "proper" HDMI 2.0 implementation and DTS-UHD for good measure.

Otherwise, Atmos isn't going to do anything for your current setup.
Wise advice.
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post #118 of 530 Old 08-17-2014, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by blazar View Post
Up-firing speakers... again simply silly nonsense. If you are buying these, then you are simply too lazy or simply not interested enough in a home theater to care to do it right.
Have you heard them? That's a strong statement to make without experience, especially given that a number of people who have heard them report preferring them over ceiling speakers.

Furthermore, I have hopes that an upmixer will be able to do some good things with upfiring speakers for music, which is the only program material I care about. See, e.g. the recent "late ceiling splash" designs from AudioKinesis.

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post #119 of 530 Old 08-17-2014, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
J* Tough crowd, get with the new Atmos program, or stay home stuck with dull 2D dimension.
Agreed,

- 2015 DTS-UHD

- 2016 AURO 3D

- 2017 Audyssey XT64.... yes technology changes every year!
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post #120 of 530 Old 08-17-2014, 09:35 PM
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I wonder how many have ever heard really good stereo in a really good room. I'm still blown away by how dimensional and spacious it is. If Atmos upmixing can improve upon this, I'm all ears.
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