DTS:X Immersive Sound Format Due March 2015 - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 1360Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 3271 Old 01-01-2015, 09:44 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
5150zx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,131
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by gammanuc View Post
Why would you tell someone to shut their mouth then, if this is the kind of stuff you appreciate? It was that remark that prompted my response, there's no need to be nasty.
I don't appreciate when someone (TheHun, in this case) tells me that because I apparently don't like progress, that no one else should either. And you telling me my words are worthless simply fueled the fire. Neither of the above is accurate. I apologize to anyone I may offend, the flip side being please don't offend me. It comes down to this: I wish CE companies (could educate) and consumers (would become more educated) to these technology upgrades, so they may possibly become adopted in greater numbers. Sadly, I don't foresee that happening anymore.
5150zx is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 3271 Old 01-01-2015, 09:46 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
5150zx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,131
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
It's a fundamental shift, the kind of thing that happens perhaps once every decade, or less.
If it means more/greater consumer adoption, I certainly hope this is the case Mark.
5150zx is offline  
post #63 of 3271 Old 01-01-2015, 09:50 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,191
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 859 Post(s)
Liked: 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorTorden View Post
I would be quite surprised if the current range of Atmos receivers (even the onkyo's) couldnt handle dts x with firmware.
I hope you are not surprised!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orbitron View Post
Let's nail this down, how many months till we have DTS:X product available for purchase?
That's what makes me think it would be a software upgrade for recent AVR's... because there won't be any new AVR's until summer right? What would be the point of releasing the format in March if there aren't any capable receivers to play DTS:X?
Aras_Volodka is offline  
 
post #64 of 3271 Old 01-01-2015, 09:53 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
thehun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Peoples Republic of Kalifornia
Posts: 8,987
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 787 Post(s)
Liked: 708
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5150zx View Post
So, it's 'progress' to add ceiling speakers so the helicopter goes from the ceiling to the right surround, instead of one of my fronts to my right surround? Hahahhahaha. It's greed more than progress in that scenario. CE companies simply are searching for income streams. And, regarding my definition of 'progress', until you've seen my hardware in both of my Home Theaters, it would be best served to shut your mouth!
Who said anything about your HT? Now your debating skills and knowledge on this subject is another matter, as it is painfully out in the open all to see.

De sagittis Hungarorum libera nos, Domine!


Ex diversis cogitationibus ex cute color.

The Hun
thehun is offline  
post #65 of 3271 Old 01-01-2015, 10:00 AM
Member
 
JasonTNT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 72
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by gammanuc View Post
Have you ever listened to any of new object based audio options in your "theaters"?? If you haven't, then everything you are saying is pure speculation, worthless.
I have heard several demos of Atmos at CEDIA and in homes and I have to be honest, while it was immersive (how would it not be when adding so many damn speakers), I thought the demos were pretty stupid. Sure a plane flying overhead makes sense but a race car?!?!?! I too began to question if this was just a money grab. I mean if you are going to work so hard at presenting this "world changing" format then you use common sense for application purposes. Reminds me of concerts in DTS and Dolby surround, sorry but if reality and experience is what "they" are selling then bust ass on presenting that material in an outstanding 2.0 lossless audio for concert DVD's and Blu-rays. I don't ever recall attending a Moody Blues, Down, Pantera, Journey, Metallica (pick your passion) concert and hearing instruments coming from behind me...just stupid. Maybe Im dumb but Im pretty sure Justin Haywards vocals and lead guitar were all in front of me.

Again, I think in specific scenes/ applications only (rain, planes and UFO's) the experience is cool. But for some people I can understand why it would not be a smart financial investment. And I think we can all agree that this new sound format was truly designed for home theater rooms not living rooms. Amazing how folks get on here and argue with one another. Buy what you want and can afford and move on! Geez.
JasonTNT is offline  
post #66 of 3271 Old 01-01-2015, 10:01 AM
Member
 
JasonTNT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 72
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonTNT View Post
I have heard several demos of Atmos at CEDIA and in homes and I have to be honest, while it was immersive (how would it not be when adding so many damn speakers), I thought the demos were pretty stupid. Sure a plane flying overhead makes sense but a race car?!?!?! I too began to question if this was just a money grab. I mean if you are going to work so hard at presenting this "world changing" format then you use common sense for application purposes. Reminds me of concerts in DTS and Dolby surround, sorry but if reality and experience is what "they" are selling then bust ass on presenting that material in an outstanding 2.0 lossless audio for concert DVD's and Blu-rays. I don't ever recall attending a Moody Blues, Down, Pantera, Journey, Metallica (pick your passion) concert and hearing instruments coming from behind me...just stupid. Maybe Im dumb but Im pretty sure Justin Haywards vocals and lead guitar were all in front of me.

Again, I think in specific scenes/ applications only (rain, planes and UFO's) the experience is cool. But for some people I can understand why it would not be a smart financial investment. And I think we can all agree that this new sound format was truly designed for home theater rooms not living rooms. Amazing how folks get on here and argue with one another. Buy what you want and can afford and move on! Geez.
oh and HAPPY NEW YEAR everyone!!!
JasonTNT is offline  
post #67 of 3271 Old 01-01-2015, 10:10 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 25,055
Mentioned: 114 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5123 Post(s)
Liked: 3605
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
It's highly unlikely 3 competing formats will make it into the home.
3 competing game formats continue to "make it" in the consumer market. 2 competing audio codecs have been making it in consumer gear for the last couple decades. 3 immersive formats could likewise make it IF each delivers enough content. If not, then that format will eventually fade. Normal part of how technology shakes out in the marketplace (Betamax, HD DVD, etc).

All of this will be invisible to consumers, just as supporting competing Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA is as easy as putting in a disc and pressing play. Since format recognition and decoding is done automatically, it doesn't matter how many competing formats there are. And if your receiver or pre-pro doesn't have a particular format decoder, it won't render a disc unplayable, since all 3 immersive formats are backwards compatible. You'll always get to hear the soundtrack, in the highest channel count your system supports.
olinda cat likes this.

Sanjay
sdurani is online now  
post #68 of 3271 Old 01-01-2015, 10:11 AM - Thread Starter
Mark Henninger
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 12,440
Mentioned: 276 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6594 Post(s)
Liked: 11341
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonTNT View Post
I have heard several demos of Atmos at CEDIA and in homes and I have to be honest, while it was immersive (how would it not be when adding so many damn speakers), I thought the demos were pretty stupid. Sure a plane flying overhead makes sense but a race car?!?!?! I too began to question if this was just a money grab. I mean if you are going to work so hard at presenting this "world changing" format then you use common sense for application purposes. Reminds me of concerts in DTS and Dolby surround, sorry but if reality and experience is what "they" are selling then bust ass on presenting that material in an outstanding 2.0 lossless audio for concert DVD's and Blu-rays. I don't ever recall attending a Moody Blues, Down, Pantera, Journey, Metallica (pick your passion) concert and hearing instruments coming from behind me...just stupid. Maybe Im dumb but Im pretty sure Justin Haywards vocals and lead guitar were all in front of me.

Again, I think in specific scenes/ applications only (rain, planes and UFO's) the experience is cool. But for some people I can understand why it would not be a smart financial investment. And I think we can all agree that this new sound format was truly designed for home theater rooms not living rooms. Amazing how folks get on here and argue with one another. Buy what you want and can afford and move on! Geez.
Have you ever attended a concert that was not amplified through a PA, but rather relied on the acoustics of the hall? Immersive audio replicates the effect of the high ceiling that is crucial to the sound of those environments, be it a concert hall, church, jazz club, stadium, and etc... There's a lot more to immersion than trick effects, namely emulating the acoustical properties of another room in order to recreate its ambience.

At the amplified concerts you did attend, could you hear anything other than the PA? Were you really listening to the instruments, or were you listening to a giant 2-channel rig? Was the crowd silent?

Mark Henninger, Senior Editor at AVS Forum
imagic is offline  
post #69 of 3271 Old 01-01-2015, 10:18 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 25,055
Mentioned: 114 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5123 Post(s)
Liked: 3605
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5150zx View Post
CE companies simply are searching for income streams.
Da, but that is allowed in this country, comrade.

Sanjay
sdurani is online now  
post #70 of 3271 Old 01-01-2015, 10:22 AM
Advanced Member
 
Lazarus Dark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 595
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 214 Post(s)
Liked: 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post
It seems that DTS forget to mention their studio partners. Let's not forget this is a new discrete mix that the studios will have to pay for especially if this is a home format only, like DTS ES Discrete was. Only that this is far more sophisticated and potentially more costly to produce. The fact that many studios use DTS HD MA is irrelevant since it's just vessel or a software for PCM, without the new mix it's nothing. I'm pretty sure that those announcement are coming before or on March however. This could also spell doom for Auro 3d for the audio 99%-ers.
Disagree. No "remix" is required by the studio, this is purely software. If Dolby Atmos says x sound should come from above-left at xyz coordinates, then DTS should have software that simply translates that into DTS:X with zero loss of information. DTS:X should also be able to do this with Atmos tracks on blurays, it should be able to read that and then convert the sound to DTS:X to utilize any DTS:X specific speaker arrangements that Atmos does not support, however who knows how much processing power this would require on the receiver. In the same way that TrueHD and DTSMA should be identical since they are both lossless from the same source. With object based sound, essentially there should be zero difference between competing systems with native content, with the exception of speaker placement recommendations: currently Atmos at Home tops out with 7.1.4 or 9.1.2, whereas DTS:X or even future versions of Atmos home recievers may allow many more speakers in varied locations. But the end result of the sound you actually hear should be similar if the processing is done well (though more speakers may end up allowing better integration between speakers and less localization).
There may be a significant difference though in the "upmixing" capabilities of taking older tracks and creating new 3d sound to utilize all available speakers in an Atmos, DTS:X, etc capable home theater.
olinda cat likes this.
Lazarus Dark is offline  
post #71 of 3271 Old 01-01-2015, 10:26 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,656
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 995 Post(s)
Liked: 523
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonTNT View Post
***Reminds me of concerts in DTS and Dolby surround, sorry but if reality and experience is what "they" are selling then bust ass on presenting that material in an outstanding 2.0 lossless audio for concert DVD's and Blu-rays. I don't ever recall attending a Moody Blues, Down, Pantera, Journey, Metallica (pick your passion) concert and hearing instruments coming from behind me...just stupid.
I assume you've never witnessed ("heard" being a bit too tame a word for the experience) Mahler 8 live?

But excepting stuff like Mahler's horns in the balcony, the point of multichannel concerts is to enhance the "you are there"-ness of the recording. Admittedly, many multichannel releases go for gimmickry and not fidelity. But done well, it blows the doors off of mere 2.0-channel. As, more often than not, does DPL2 expansion of 2 channel into 7-channel, IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
***The competition for immersive audio supremacy is about to heat up thanks to DTS:X, the object-based successor to DTS-HD Master audio.
***
I also want to know if DTS:X uses the same speaker arrangement as Dolby Atmos. Then there's the question of Atmos-enabled (reflective sound) speakers—does DTS:X work with those systems? Will there be such a thing as a DTS:X-enabled speaker? I'd love to have the answers to these questions sooner rather than later.
IMO, that's the key. The number of software formats in the box really doesn't matter, except that it raises the price floor of AVRs due to the additional licensing fees. But any format that can't work with common speaker placements that work for the others is, IMO, stillborn.

I also think all immersive formats are going to live in a tiny niche market if they require additional speakers installed in the ceiling. "Immersive" will only happen if the formats can make upfiring speakers consistently work well, and competent speakers employing them become widely available on the market. I look forward to seeing what DTS brings to the table.

--
"In many cases there aren’t two sides unless one side is 'reality' and the other is 'nonsense.'" - Phil Plait
Serious Audio Blog 
DS-21 is offline  
post #72 of 3271 Old 01-01-2015, 10:31 AM
Senior Member
 
TorTorden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 390
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 108 Post(s)
Liked: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aras_Volodka View Post
I hope you are not surprised!



That's what makes me think it would be a software upgrade for recent AVR's... because there won't be any new AVR's until summer right? What would be the point of releasing the format in March if there aren't any capable receivers to play DTS:X?
Well the main difference for why my fairly new denon 4520 can't support Atmos is that the object oriented nature of Atmos requires larger and more powerful DSP section. Now as stated I would be very suprised if one implementation of an object oriented audio format would be so specialized this day that it couldn't work on the same chips running another unless one of them are doing something incredibly wrong and demanding significantly more processing power over the other.
Somehow I doubt either the DTS or Dolby engineers are so bone headed as to waste processing power, so the rest should be a matter of reading the different Meta format and processing accordingly. Which is entirely just up to the software side of things.

Anyhoo I am just guessing here, we don't really know anything yet except to pay attention in march (although some leaks during CES next week wouldn't suprise me either)
Aras_Volodka likes this.
TorTorden is offline  
post #73 of 3271 Old 01-01-2015, 10:46 AM
Member
 
gammanuc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Posts: 111
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 64 Post(s)
Liked: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonTNT View Post
I have heard several demos of Atmos at CEDIA and in homes and I have to be honest, while it was immersive (how would it not be when adding so many damn speakers), I thought the demos were pretty stupid. Sure a plane flying overhead makes sense but a race car?!?!?! I too began to question if this was just a money grab. I mean if you are going to work so hard at presenting this "world changing" format then you use common sense for application purposes. Reminds me of concerts in DTS and Dolby surround, sorry but if reality and experience is what "they" are selling then bust ass on presenting that material in an outstanding 2.0 lossless audio for concert DVD's and Blu-rays. I don't ever recall attending a Moody Blues, Down, Pantera, Journey, Metallica (pick your passion) concert and hearing instruments coming from behind me...just stupid. Maybe Im dumb but Im pretty sure Justin Haywards vocals and lead guitar were all in front of me.

Again, I think in specific scenes/ applications only (rain, planes and UFO's) the experience is cool. But for some people I can understand why it would not be a smart financial investment. And I think we can all agree that this new sound format was truly designed for home theater rooms not living rooms. Amazing how folks get on here and argue with one another. Buy what you want and can afford and move on! Geez.
I agree, some of the demo disc doesn't seem right to me as well, the overhead race car as you mentioned in particular. All I can say I'm glad I took a leap and tried out Atmos. There aren't many Atmos movies available yet but the DSU upmixing itself has me watching my movie collection all over again. I personally don't listen to much music on the Denon X5200 I purchased, but I found with certain albums that have a lot ambient sounds (Hawkwind for instance) the Dolby Atmos upmix was quite cool.

Happy New Year!
robert816 likes this.
gammanuc is offline  
post #74 of 3271 Old 01-01-2015, 10:48 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
LowellG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Helotes, TX
Posts: 2,129
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 523 Post(s)
Liked: 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
3 competing game formats continue to "make it" in the consumer market. 2 competing audio codecs have been making it in consumer gear for the last couple decades. 3 immersive formats could likewise make it IF each delivers enough content. If not, then that format will eventually fade. Normal part of how technology shakes out in the marketplace (Betamax, HD DVD, etc).

All of this will be invisible to consumers, just as supporting competing Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA is as easy as putting in a disc and pressing play. Since format recognition and decoding is done automatically, it doesn't matter how many competing formats there are. And if your receiver or pre-pro doesn't have a particular format decoder, it won't render a disc unplayable, since all 3 immersive formats are backwards compatible. You'll always get to hear the soundtrack, in the highest channel count your system supports.

There are 3 game systems, not formats, so not quite a valid comparison. The games systems would be comparable to the number of companies with receivers having all 3 formats, that's not the issue. That can happen with ease. Also, each one of the "game formats" required 1 device for playback. Not 5, 11, 15, etc and game systems only take up one device in the house. I feel the issue for adoption in the home market is speaker placement and Auro 3D has put out their specs and its just not realistic at all to make it into the general home entertainment area. It's a dedicated HT design. Atmos could be done in many homes, so long as they stay where they are at. DTS would need to follow something closer to Dolby than Auro for a home consumer adaption.


Also, I don't have any statistics, but I would bet large amounts of money that the number of households with a game system in them dwarf the number of households with even a 5.1 surround setup let alone a dedicated HT. So comparing us HT geeks and our love for our new toys and tech to game systems is just not valid. Supply and demand drive the market and the demand from the small percentage of us in this forum can't compete with the gaming market. My hobby makes my gaming better and immersive, but the vast majority of consumers in the game market don't have what we have.

Lowell


The MarvelAtmos Home Theater: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...e-theater.html
LowellG is offline  
post #75 of 3271 Old 01-01-2015, 11:03 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 25,055
Mentioned: 114 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5123 Post(s)
Liked: 3605
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post
Only that this is far more sophisticated and potentially more costly to produce.
Not that costly when DTS is giving away their MDA mixer plug in. If you go to the MDA placeholder page at the DTS website, the first two words you'll see are "royalty free".

http://www.dts.com/professionals/sou...ogies/mda.aspx

Sanjay
sdurani is online now  
post #76 of 3271 Old 01-01-2015, 11:26 AM
Advanced Member
 
Michael Osadciw's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Serving GTA & Southern Ontario
Posts: 937
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 132 Post(s)
Liked: 117
Michael Osadciw is offline  
post #77 of 3271 Old 01-01-2015, 11:31 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 25,055
Mentioned: 114 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5123 Post(s)
Liked: 3605
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
There are 3 game systems, not formats, so not quite a valid comparison.
On the contrary, if 3 game systems (each requiring a separate console) can coexist in the consumer market place, then 3 formats (inside the same AVR) makes coexistence that much easier.
Quote:
I feel the issue for adoption in the home market is speaker placement and Auro 3D has put out their specs and its just not realistic at all to make it into the general home entertainment area.
Prior to immersive audio, there were three competing upmixing modes from Dolby, DTS and THX. Except THX wanted your rear speakers right next to each other (just as Auro has their own placement for height speakers). Folks made a choice whether they wanted to optimize rear speaker placement for THX or not, just as people will decide whether they want to optimize height speaker placement for Auro (or not). Didn't stop the other upmixers from working, just as an Auro-optimized layout won't stop Atmos and DTS:X from working. No reason they can't coexist.
Quote:
Supply and demand drive the market and the demand from the small percentage of us in this forum can't compete with the gaming market.
I wasn't talking about competing with the gaming market, just pointing out that in a consumer market that allows 3 gaming systems to coexist, there is no logistical reason why 3 audio formats can't do likewise. Whether they do is up to them, but there is nothing magical about the number 3 (as opposed to 2 competing formats).

Sanjay
sdurani is online now  
post #78 of 3271 Old 01-01-2015, 11:32 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Manni01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 6,426
Mentioned: 119 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3364 Post(s)
Liked: 3120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Osadciw View Post
Late summer 2015.

Does this mean you have a confirmation that no model from the current range of AVRs, including the X7200 and 8802 from D&M, will get a f/w update so that the first models supporting DTS:X will be new models announced in Summer 2015 and available in September/October 2015?


Or do you mean this is when the first f/w upgrades will be made available for some of the current models, like the 7200/8802?


It would be nice to know exactly what you mean, and if it's an information or just an educated guess.


Thanks!
Manni01 is online now  
post #79 of 3271 Old 01-01-2015, 11:35 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
thehun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Peoples Republic of Kalifornia
Posts: 8,987
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 787 Post(s)
Liked: 708
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Not that costly when DTS is giving away their MDA mixer plug in. If you go to the MDA placeholder page at the DTS website, the first two words you'll see are "royalty free".

http://www.dts.com/professionals/sou...ogies/mda.aspx
That's great what about the sound mixers and engineers, are they "royalty free" too?

De sagittis Hungarorum libera nos, Domine!


Ex diversis cogitationibus ex cute color.

The Hun
thehun is offline  
post #80 of 3271 Old 01-01-2015, 11:36 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
smurraybhm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Down South
Posts: 3,813
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1677 Post(s)
Liked: 2095
Quote:
Originally Posted by blu-dog-avs View Post
With four movies released in Atmos so far...all of them turkeys. Lots of enjoyment there.
Haters got to hate, feeling blue because Santa brought you a Bose theatre in a box for Christmas?

If you kept up with the Atmos thread most of us who jumped early have said it was worth it for DSU. A good quality audio mix sounds amazing using DSU, 4 crap movies is your opinion but they have given us good idea of the potential that object based audio offers.

Look forward to DTS and Dolby bringing us better audio for 2015 and beyond.

There is no perfect display, quit looking for faults and enjoy

LG B7 OLED 65" (waiting for cal by DNice)
Ascend's with RAAL, Love my PSA v1800 and a 7.2.4 speaker config, Oppo 203 and other toys
smurraybhm is offline  
post #81 of 3271 Old 01-01-2015, 11:39 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
thehun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Peoples Republic of Kalifornia
Posts: 8,987
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 787 Post(s)
Liked: 708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarus Dark View Post
Disagree. No "remix" is required by the studio, this is purely software. If Dolby Atmos says x sound should come from above-left at xyz coordinates, then DTS should have software that simply translates that into DTS:X with zero loss of information. DTS:X should also be able to do this with Atmos tracks on blurays, it should be able to read that and then convert the sound to DTS:X to utilize any DTS:X specific speaker arrangements that Atmos does not support, however who knows how much processing power this would require on the receiver. In the same way that TrueHD and DTSMA should be identical since they are both lossless from the same source. With object based sound, essentially there should be zero difference between competing systems with native content, with the exception of speaker placement recommendations: currently Atmos at Home tops out with 7.1.4 or 9.1.2, whereas DTS:X or even future versions of Atmos home recievers may allow many more speakers in varied locations. But the end result of the sound you actually hear should be similar if the processing is done well (though more speakers may end up allowing better integration between speakers and less localization).
There may be a significant difference though in the "upmixing" capabilities of taking older tracks and creating new 3d sound to utilize all available speakers in an Atmos, DTS:X, etc capable home theater.
I was talking about if there was no object based mix to begin with, which is the majority of the current film mixes out there.

De sagittis Hungarorum libera nos, Domine!


Ex diversis cogitationibus ex cute color.

The Hun
thehun is offline  
post #82 of 3271 Old 01-01-2015, 11:41 AM
 
NorthSky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Star of the Northern Hemisphere
Posts: 16,653
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7012 Post(s)
Liked: 3557
Thumbs up dts:X <> Right on! <> Happy Happy 2015 Year! <> 3D dts Surround Sound

Happy New Year AVS, and beyond!

♦ Tis is excellent news on the last day of 2014, and to start the new year, 2015.

May it fills all people over the World with Joy, Peace, Love, Compassion, Respect, Prosperity, and Good Health and Warm Feelings All Over.
Manni01 and Frank714 like this.
NorthSky is offline  
post #83 of 3271 Old 01-01-2015, 11:46 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Manni01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 6,426
Mentioned: 119 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3364 Post(s)
Liked: 3120
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
3 competing game formats continue to "make it" in the consumer market. 2 competing audio codecs have been making it in consumer gear for the last couple decades. 3 immersive formats could likewise make it IF each delivers enough content. If not, then that format will eventually fade. Normal part of how technology shakes out in the marketplace (Betamax, HD DVD, etc).

All of this will be invisible to consumers, just as supporting competing Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA is as easy as putting in a disc and pressing play. Since format recognition and decoding is done automatically, it doesn't matter how many competing formats there are. And if your receiver or pre-pro doesn't have a particular format decoder, it won't render a disc unplayable, since all 3 immersive formats are backwards compatible. You'll always get to hear the soundtrack, in the highest channel count your system supports.
Not that I disagree with you, but there is big difference between Atmos/Auro/DTS:X and the legacy formats, and it's the lack of a common, accepted and compatible speaker layout. You could switch easily between Dolby True-HD and DTS HD MA because the 7.1 speaker layout was exactly the same. Even if you had PLIIz or DSX, it was just speakers added to the standard 7.1 layout, using common locations (FH were absolutely compatible between PLIIz and DSX, for example).


The fact that height/top speakers are different in each immersive layout, and the fact that even if they could be used in the same position, there are limitations in the early implementations of these preventing from sharing an Audissey configuration between the formats simply because the speakers are not called the same, make the switch far from being as easy as you describe.


If they all agree on a common, compatible speakers placement, and if implementations then allow to switch easily between each format without having to chose between losing your calibration or losing a pair of heights or more, then I agree it becomes transparent for the user, like legacy formats are.


I certainly hope we'll get there (or that only one format will actually become the standard) but as you know, looking at the way we can switch between Atmos and Auro in the D&M implementation, we're not there yet


Of course if you're only talking about upmixing, that's different, but I'm talking about making the most of each native immersive soundtrack.
Manni01 is online now  
post #84 of 3271 Old 01-01-2015, 11:47 AM
 
NorthSky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Star of the Northern Hemisphere
Posts: 16,653
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7012 Post(s)
Liked: 3557
I am so happy! ...Right on right on right on! ...Total Awesomeness to the Limit!
NorthSky is offline  
post #85 of 3271 Old 01-01-2015, 11:50 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 25,055
Mentioned: 114 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5123 Post(s)
Liked: 3605
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post
That's great what about the sound mixers and engineers, are they "royalty free" too?
Since they're mixing movies anyway, they can do an immersive mix using MDA but still have the ability to deliver 7.1/5.1/2.0 downmixes where needed. The choice isn't between paying them to do an immersive mix vs not paying them at all; they're already being paid to mix movies. By comparison, an Atmos mix requires renting the RMU computer (Rendering/Mastering Unit) AND paying to have a Dolby consultant there during the mix.

Sanjay
sdurani is online now  
post #86 of 3271 Old 01-01-2015, 12:11 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Daniel Chaves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: LA (Valley Village)
Posts: 1,492
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 436 Post(s)
Liked: 342
Well given that most ATMOS capable receivers use two DSP to process ATMOS, I think it is possible to update the AVR to include DTS-X, I think the real factor isnt if the AVR can handle the processing, I think they can, I think the real concern is if the coding is small enough to fit on the available memory of the AVR along side of ATMOS and everything else or if it comes down to having to pick one or the other...

Projector: BenQ w1500 + ES Sable 135" Screen AVR: Marantz SR6011 ATMOS/DTSX + Darbee 5000s
Speakers: Polk Audio TSX550t (FL/FR), CS2 Series II (C), Monitor40 Series II (RL/RR),
Polk Audio TSx110B (Ceiling FL/FR RL/RR), (2) JL Audio 12" Subs + (2) Dayton 15" Subs + (2) ButtKicker LFE
Arrangement: 5.1.4 Source: OPPO UDP-203 4k Bluray Player, Roku 4, HTPC, Nexus Player
Daniel Chaves is offline  
post #87 of 3271 Old 01-01-2015, 12:30 PM
Senior Member
 
blu-dog-avs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 298
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
Liked: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
Haters got to hate, feeling blue because Santa brought you a Bose theatre in a box for Christmas?

Hey, that was cute! Bet you worked on that one for a while.


Current rig (In the living room, there are three others)

  • Sony 79" 4K
  • Pioneer SC-71 (set up as 9.2)
  • B&K 125.1 amplifier
  • Main: Definitive Mythos ST
  • Main Wide: Definitive Mythos One
  • Side Surround: Sonus Faber Domus - (trades places with the ST's, depending on my wife's mood)
  • Rear Surround: Definitive Mythos Two
  • Subwoofer: JL Audio Fathom F113
  • 2nd Subwoofer: Dual driver custom, using 2 JL Audio 12"
  • Subwoofer amp: QSC 2450
  • Harmony Ultimate control
I feel like I might not be done yet. The front wide setup has real power. I don't know where I'd hook up a Bose unit, that's an option, I guess. Let me know if you need a photo or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
If you kept up with the Atmos thread most of us who jumped early have said it was worth it for DSU. A good quality audio mix sounds amazing using DSU, 4 crap movies is your opinion but they have given us good idea of the potential that object based audio offers.

I've been watching that thread, with some amusement. People who jump in early are funny. I don't question subjective worth on any purchase; I'd rather view it objectively. You call it hate. Sound to me like you need to sharpen your axe, not just grind on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
Look forward to DTS and Dolby bringing us better audio for 2015 and beyond.

But you jumped in early! "Come on in, the water's fine," accompanied by the theme from Jaws, leaves me singularly unimpressed. I really love home theater gear, and really want to get deeper into the new technology, and thanks for playing. I really like it when other folks are the ones trying to get the heck out of the Petri dish, and it's not my problem.


2015 may be the time to get into this, but not while the big boys are discussing this while snapping each other's ribs with confusing literature, competing formats, and raw insults.
Schwa likes this.
blu-dog-avs is offline  
post #88 of 3271 Old 01-01-2015, 12:32 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
PeterTHX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,406
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 463 Post(s)
Liked: 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by blu-dog-avs View Post
And we care, because...?

You should care about true innovation.


Building a company around coattail riding and waiting to see what another company comes up with first is bad business.

My opinions do not reflect the policies of my company
PeterTHX is offline  
post #89 of 3271 Old 01-01-2015, 12:37 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Daniel Chaves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: LA (Valley Village)
Posts: 1,492
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 436 Post(s)
Liked: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post
You should care about true innovation.


Building a company around coattail riding and waiting to see what another company comes up with first is bad business.
I dont know about that... seems to work fine for Apple...
thehun and newfmp3 like this.

Projector: BenQ w1500 + ES Sable 135" Screen AVR: Marantz SR6011 ATMOS/DTSX + Darbee 5000s
Speakers: Polk Audio TSX550t (FL/FR), CS2 Series II (C), Monitor40 Series II (RL/RR),
Polk Audio TSx110B (Ceiling FL/FR RL/RR), (2) JL Audio 12" Subs + (2) Dayton 15" Subs + (2) ButtKicker LFE
Arrangement: 5.1.4 Source: OPPO UDP-203 4k Bluray Player, Roku 4, HTPC, Nexus Player
Daniel Chaves is offline  
post #90 of 3271 Old 01-01-2015, 12:39 PM
Advanced Member
 
dschulz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 796
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 675 Post(s)
Liked: 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post
You should care about true innovation.


Building a company around coattail riding and waiting to see what another company comes up with first is bad business.
That's a little unfair - MDA has been in development for about the same amount of time as Atmos. Both DTS and Dolby have poured a lot of resources into developing these next-generation formats. Whichever "wins" (or indeed if both become common) we consumers come out ahead.

Full disclosure, I may be biased as I used to work at DTS, but left long before the SRS Labs acquisition that brought them MDA.
DenverMDM likes this.
dschulz is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Latest Industry News

Tags
Dts , frontpage , Surround Sound

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off