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post #1 of 785 Old 01-09-2015, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Ultra HD Blu-ray Spec at CES 2015



The specs for Ultra HD Blu-ray have been revealed; here's what to expect from the next generation of optical discs and players.

One of the most eagerly anticipated developments in the world of 4K/UHD is a next-generation optical-disc format that will deliver the best-quality video and audio to consumers. At CES 2015, I learned that the specification for this format is nearly complete, and I'm happy to report the confirmed details here.

First, the official name of the new disc format is Ultra HD Blu-ray—not Ultra HD Blu-ray Disc and not UHDBD, UHD BD, or UHD-BD (though I'm sure many will use one or another of these abbreviations). Licensing is expected to begin mid-year, which means the spec will be completely finalized by then.

Speaking of the spec, it's pretty much done, defining what a player and disc must support as mandatory and optional. The goal is to make the format as future-proof as possible so that new capabilities can be accommodated as they are developed.

Discs will be available in two varieties—66 GB dual layer and 100 GB triple layer with data-transfer rates up to 108 Mbps from a 66 GB disc and up to 128 Mbps from a 100 GB disc. The laser system is roughly the same as the current Blu-ray spec tuned for the new higher-density disc structure. Obviously, the pixel resolution will be up to 3840x2160, and players will have HDMI 2.0 outputs with HDCP 2.2 copy protection. Finally, HEVC encoding will be used.

Ultra HD Blu-ray players must be able to read both of the new formats as well as HD Blu-ray discs. Other mandatory features include support for high dynamic range in the form of SMPTE ST 2084 and 2086, which are open standards that include PQ gamma. The HDR info is encoded as metadata so the content can be played on a non-HDR display. Also, players must support frame rates up to 60 fps and color gamuts up to BT.2020 with 10-bit resolution. Finally, they must decode all the current audio formats and provide passthrough for all immersive-audio bitstreams.

Optional features that manufacturers can choose to implement or not include support for Dolby Vision and Philips HDR as well as DVD and CD playback. Another optional feature is called Digital Bridge, which will let the player copy Ultra HD Blu-ray content from the disc to internal storage if available. It also allows you to export an HD or SD copy of the content to an external device for portability. (The rep I spoke with didn't know if Digital Bridge would let you export full-resolution UHD content.)

The discs themselves support all these features, but none are required—studios can choose what they want to put on the discs. It's a blank canvas, and content creators can include what best serves their artistic intent. For example, some discs might include high frame-rate content, but others might not based on the director's preference.

The official logo has not been finalized yet—the graphic at the top of this post is just something I threw together—and there are a few other minor details to work out, but I'm delighted to know what to expect from the next-generation optical-disc format. With licensing scheduled to begin mid-year, I suspect there might be actual product in the market by CES 2016.

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post #2 of 785 Old 01-09-2015, 12:21 PM
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No mention if current 2014 and 2015 model 4KTVs can display Ultra HD Blu-ray.

?
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post #3 of 785 Old 01-09-2015, 12:25 PM
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Well, before I spend good money on a 4K display for my HT room, I damn sure want to know if it will support everything that a 4K Blu-ray disc can deliver.

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post #4 of 785 Old 01-09-2015, 12:26 PM
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I want more than anything else is mandatory RESUME!!!!
That and no more premenu garbage. No trailers, studio logos, adverts, "Anti-Piracy" silliness.
Absolutely nothing but going straight to the menu.

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post #5 of 785 Old 01-09-2015, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlos_E View Post
No mention if current 2014 and 2015 model 4KTVs can display Ultra HD Blu-ray. ?

And, any word on a 3D spec?

Nevermind, I see at Digital Bits that 1080P 3D is supported and that 4k 3D does not officially exist yet. http://www.thedigitalbits.com/column...ts/010615_1530

Last edited by jbug; 01-09-2015 at 12:37 PM.
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post #6 of 785 Old 01-09-2015, 12:29 PM
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Glad to see some progress is being made, seemingly in the right direction
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post #7 of 785 Old 01-09-2015, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMFDMvsEnya View Post
I want more than anything else is mandatory RESUME!!!!
That and no more premenu garbage. No trailers, studio logos, adverts, "Anti-Piracy" silliness.
Absolutely nothing but going straight to the menu.
KvE
Why would that happen?

In any case, is this Digital Bridge just Managed Copy all over again? Why are we any more likely to see anything that works with a media tank without resorting to cracking encryption any more than we did with Blu-ray?

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post #8 of 785 Old 01-09-2015, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
Discs will be available in two varieties—66 GB dual layer and 100 GB triple layer with data-transfer rates up to 108 Mbps from a 66 GB disc and up to 128 Mbps from a 100 GB disc.
That doesn't sound right. 66/100 should have the same max bitrate, since the per-layer density is the same. Maybe the lower speed is for 50GB disks?
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post #9 of 785 Old 01-09-2015, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Luke M View Post
That doesn't sound right. 66/100 should have the same max bitrate, since the per-layer density is the same. Maybe the lower speed is for 50GB disks?
This is want I was told in no uncertain terms.
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post #10 of 785 Old 01-09-2015, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbug View Post
And, any word on a 3D spec?

Nevermind, I see at Digital Bits that 1080P 3D is supported and that 4k 3D does not officially exist yet. http://www.thedigitalbits.com/column...ts/010615_1530
I didn't ask about 3D, but it makes sense that legacy 3D Blu-ray would be supported.

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post #11 of 785 Old 01-09-2015, 12:42 PM
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Besides it being an option in Ultra HD Blu-ray, were there any announcements regarding Philips HDR at CES?
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post #12 of 785 Old 01-09-2015, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlos_E View Post
No mention if current 2014 and 2015 model 4KTVs can display Ultra HD Blu-ray.

?
I don't see any reason why 2014/2015 UHDTVs couldn't display Ultra HD Blu-ray; in most cases, I suppose they would simply ignore the HDR metadata and display standard dynamic range. As for color gamut, I don't know; I'l see if I can find out.
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post #13 of 785 Old 01-09-2015, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by EvLee View Post
Besides it being an option in Ultra HD Blu-ray, were there any announcements regarding Philips HDR at CES?
None that I've heard.

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post #14 of 785 Old 01-09-2015, 12:50 PM
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I am interested to learn whether or not a PC drive will be made for this format.

There are only a few licensed bluray software players. I almost wonder if the consortium will abandon the PC as a way to prevent piracy.
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post #15 of 785 Old 01-09-2015, 01:01 PM
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Wow that logo actually looks pretty legit to me. Good job Scott. I have to admit that I will miss calling it 4K Bluray. It was much easier to type and faster to say.

The only real issue I see is weather or not the new flagship 2015 models can accept the HDR and wide color metadata from these disc. Hopefully the new UHD Association has put in standards to make sure everything is compatible but I'd hate to spend a bunch of $$$ on a JS9500 or any other top tier TV only to find that it displays regular dynamic range and Rec. 709 when playing a UHD Blu-ray.

All we need now is the players and content. It would be really nice if they could keep the players below $400 at launch and the disc prices below $30 but I guess we'll have to wait and see. All in all I'm exited.

The Home Theater Geeks episode for CES should be pretty intense with all of these announcements. I don't know how you guys are going to keep it at an hour. From HDR to Wide Color to UHD Blu Ray, it seems like we got everything we wanted this year.
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post #16 of 785 Old 01-09-2015, 01:04 PM
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Sorry to hear there is no 12bit color, as I suspect 10bits might not quite be enough for rec. 2020. Great news overall though, Scott.
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post #17 of 785 Old 01-09-2015, 01:09 PM
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One can dream, turls, one can dream.

The lack of mandatory "resume" support in BR players has always been an asinine one. Instead it had to be authored onto the disc at the discretion of whoever was producing the title.

It is a great convenience feature that was present with DVD and should have remained in the BR spec.

If Studios really want to hit a home run in wooing the public they really need to reduce and eliminate any hindrance to the convenience of the customer. Such as no long load times to start a disc, seamless and quick menus, and do away with the practice of mandatory advertising before the menu. Horrendously annoying, especially when it requires multiple input presses to skip them, and makes downloads far more compelling than purchasing a physical disc.

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post #18 of 785 Old 01-09-2015, 01:10 PM
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Great to hear that they've gone all the way to BT.2020 - I was afraid we'd get stuck with P3 for now (though of course this doesn't require content mastered in 2020). I'm a little surprised they only require 10bits though - I thought it was fairly clear that HEVC would need more than 10 to render the full gamut without banding. Am I misremembering?
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post #19 of 785 Old 01-09-2015, 01:13 PM
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So if the player is 10bit, can an 8 bit tv still play it? Will the picture be greatly degraded if it does?
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post #20 of 785 Old 01-09-2015, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
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Great to hear that they've gone all the way to BT.2020 - I was afraid we'd get stuck with P3 for now (though of course this doesn't require content mastered in 2020). I'm a little surprised they only require 10bits though - I thought it was fairly clear that HEVC would need more than 10 to render the full gamut without banding. Am I misremembering?

That's what I thought too. I question whether 10bits is sufficient for rec. 2020.
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post #21 of 785 Old 01-09-2015, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by KMFDMvsEnya View Post
If Studios really want to hit a home run in wooing the public they really need to reduce and eliminate any hindrance to the convenience of the customer. Such as no long load times to start a disc, seamless and quick menus, and do away with the practice of mandatory advertising before the menu. Horrendously annoying, especially when it requires multiple input presses to skip them, and makes downloads far more compelling than purchasing a physical disc.

Best regards,
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So much this not to mention when you have the animation before the menu that will reveal half the movie to start with.

Plonk in disc, press play, watch movie. How hard can it be to provide that for paying customers?

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post #22 of 785 Old 01-09-2015, 01:21 PM
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My very first question is how soon can we get The Hobbit trilogy in all its 4k 48fps 3d glory

Second question is what about anamorphic support. If the film is 4kx2k 2.35:1, will it still have stupid hard coded black bars and less resolution or will they be able to use full UHD resolution pixels.

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post #23 of 785 Old 01-09-2015, 01:22 PM
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The lack of UHD projectors prevents me from getting excited about this.
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post #24 of 785 Old 01-09-2015, 01:34 PM
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The lack of UHD projectors prevents me from getting excited about this.
Apparently news for PJs tends to occur at CEDIA, not CES. So we have to wait. I too, would upgrade my HT in a flash to 4K if within a not-insane budget.
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post #25 of 785 Old 01-09-2015, 01:34 PM
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My question is why is the industry still stuck on disk? It would be great if the can go with a 256gb SDXC card.
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post #26 of 785 Old 01-09-2015, 01:40 PM
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My question is why is the industry still stuck on disk? It would be great if the can go with a 256gb SDXC card.
The main reason, I suspect, is that anything on an SDXC card could be copied off, bit for bit, and stuffed onto another blank SDXC card, with very minimal work to get around any "copy protection". The industry does not want that.

Another reason might be that the lifetime of an SDXC card may not be as predictable as an optical disk. My CDs from 25 years ago still work just fine, even if I haven't played them that whole time (I have a few, I think). But I'm not sure the "permanent" data on an SDXC card is known/tested to last that long.

But I'm uncertain about the latter point, and regardless, the first point is probably what matters.
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post #27 of 785 Old 01-09-2015, 01:47 PM
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Is it just me or or does it seem like the only company that can comes close to meeting the rec.2020 requirement in a mid-size lcd-tv this year is Samsung with their S-UHD series televisions because of their quantum dot technology? Actually does Samsung's JS8500 series S-UHD 4k tv support quantum dot technology at all, haven't been able to figure that one out?
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post #28 of 785 Old 01-09-2015, 01:54 PM
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Is it just me or or does it seem like the only company that can comes close to meeting the rec.2020 requirement in a mid-size lcd-tv this year is Samsung with their S-UHD series televisions because of their quantum dot technology? Actually does Samsung's JS8500 series S-UHD 4k tv support quantum dot technology at all, haven't been able to figure that one out?
Yes it does. It's their new 4k standard I believe.
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post #29 of 785 Old 01-09-2015, 01:57 PM
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My question is why is the industry still stuck on disk? It would be great if the can go with a 256gb SDXC card.
256gb SDXC currently costs about $100 for just the card. Compare that to the cost of pressing an optical disk in bulk.
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post #30 of 785 Old 01-09-2015, 01:58 PM
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Obviously, the pixel resolution will be up to 3840x2160, and players will have HDMI 2.0 outputs with HDCP 2.2 copy protection. Finally, HEVC encoding will be used.
So the DCI 4096x2160 resolution that my Sony VPL-VW1100ES has natively is not supported? That sucks.
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