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post #1 of 31 Old 09-25-2016, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Alcons Pro Ribbon Immersive Experience 11.1.8 Dolby Atmos Demo at CEDIA 2016

As promised in a previous post, I made a specific point of visiting the Alcons pro ribbon immersive experience at CEDIA 2016. This over-the-top system from Dutch speaker manufacturer Alcons is all about combining industrial-strength ribbon tweeters (offering 90° dispersion) with horn-loaded dynamic midrange drivers plus ported woofers into three-way cinema speaker arrays. Add a couple of 21-inch passive subwoofers—being fed kilowatts of power—and another pair of 18-inch subwoofers contributing boom and grunt to the proceedings, and you wind up with a 11.1.8 surround-sound system—with an 11.4.8 speaker configuration—that offers a take-no-prisoners approach to audio immersion. Crucially, it vastly exceeds the on-tap dynamic range needed to get maximal enjoyment from any movie.


Alcons Pro Ribbon Immersive Experience. Cineramax is sitting on the left, AVS Forum Editor Scott Wilkinson is to his right. Photo by Mark Henninger

When I sat down to experience the system for the first time, watching the gun fight scene from Wyatt Earp (that portrays the proceedings at the OK corral), I noted that the combination of crickets and gunfire were a persuasive combo that showed off what the system could do. One second it's teasing you with delicate, precisely-placed insect sounds, and the next it's zapping your ears with explosive dynamics that are so intense (like real gunshots) that at times they could be uncomfortable. Let's face it, gunfights are not meant to be pleasant proceedings.

While the demo was notable for the extreme SPL levels it achieved, it soon became clear that the system itself had tons of headroom above and beyond what was being demoed. At one point during the listening session, the system's creator, the residential integrator from Miami—known as Cineramax here of AVS Forum—mentioned that a "125 dB client" was stopping by. During that period (which coincided with the end of the show itself) what was going on in the Alcons demo room was surely by far the loudest and most explosive cinematic experience to be found at CEDIA.

Personally, I have no need for system that does what these speakers could do; it's brutal, shocking, and undeniably intense. But, I get that there are people who love to have their cinematic experiences be that visceral.

When the system wasn't blasting away, such as during music demo segments that included Depeche Mode and Santana concert videos, I caught a glimpse of how the system could also bring subtlety and precision to the table. Given the tremendous amount of headroom possessed by the rig—with no audible hiss—it's a fair bet that distortion is kept far, far away from ever becoming audible. What's left is merciless accuracy, so you have to feed the beast good audio to make it happy.

This is not just a sports car compared to the other systems that are mere luxury sedans, this is more like a Formula One or Indy 500 race car. You get performance that is several orders of magnitude beyond what's offered to consumers, but you better bet your butt that you're gonna feel every single ripple in the asphalt. And with that much power on-tap, and if you're not careful you can get into trouble very quickly and easily—I strongly recommend against extended exposure to the sort of audio levels that system is capable of.

Scenes from the movie teen-dystopia movie Allegiant looked sharp on the screen, and provided a chance to hear the Trinnov Altitude 32 processor render a well-produced, genuine Dolby Atmos mix. The same could be said for scenes from the World War II tank movie, Fury. This is a system that absolutely aces gunshots and explosions.


This system had eight height channels. Photo by Mark Henninger

Aside from the audio, the acoustically-transparent Ultraweave V6 was pretty neat. It's made with an all-in-one, multi-layer fabric that has a gain of 0.82, neutral color, and only absorbs 1.5 dB of SPL. The weave is so tight, it's immune to moiré with projected resolutions of up to 8K. An integrated black backing layer prevents ghosting artifacts that can occur when there's space between the backing and the screen itself.
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post #2 of 31 Old 09-26-2016, 05:04 AM
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Given the hoopla prior to the beginning of CEDIA, I visited that room twice and came away both times with the same impression: NOT my deal.

While it may have been due to the over the top volume, I found the system totally unlistenable each time. I, apparently, was not alone in that assessment as I left the demo early along with many others.

Dynamic? Yes! Immersive? Yes! Harsh? Very! Of all of the demos I attended, this was my 3rd favorite.
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post #3 of 31 Old 09-26-2016, 05:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Given the hoopla prior to the beginning of CEDIA, I visited that room twice and came away both times with the same impression: NOT my deal.

While it may have been due to the over the top volume, I found the system totally unlistenable each time. I, apparently, was not alone in that assessment as I left the demo early along with many others.

Dynamic? Yes! Immersive? Yes! Harsh? Very! Of all of the demos I attended, this was my 3rd favorite.
It's fair to say that quite a few people found it to be overly aggressive and over-the-top. One note I jotted while there that sums up my take is... "Not sure I would actually enjoy listening to that on a regular basis, even though I understand it's clean, dynamic."
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This was the first system I heard at CEDIA and it was crazy loud. This room was probably as close as you might get to actually being at the gun fight or tank war. I thought the Santana was louder than any concert I had been too, especially when the crowed cheered.

BUT it was pretty badass!!!!!!!
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post #5 of 31 Old 09-26-2016, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
It's fair to say that quite a few people found it to be overly aggressive and over-the-top. One note I jotted while there that sums up my take is... "Not sure I would actually enjoy listening to that on a regular basis, even though I understand it's clean, dynamic."
Totally agree. And, OT, if you are an Eagles fan, they put some serious hurt on their opponent yesterday!!
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Totally agree. And, OT, if you are an Eagles fan, they put some serious hurt on their opponent yesterday!!
It was a truly great day for our city.

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post #7 of 31 Old 09-26-2016, 06:51 AM
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Cool This is way beyond home theater

My first impression, even before reading the review, was, "What has this got to do with home theater?" The art of the AVS hobby is quality sound and picture in smaller spaces, and on small budgets. This rig is just a medium sized industrial theater and as such is of no particular newsworthyness to the home theater enthusiast. At least not to this home theater enthusiast.
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post #8 of 31 Old 09-26-2016, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Given the hoopla prior to the beginning of CEDIA, I visited that room twice and came away both times with the same impression: NOT my deal.

While it may have been due to the over the top volume, I found the system totally unlistenable each time. I, apparently, was not alone in that assessment as I left the demo early along with many others.

Dynamic? Yes! Immersive? Yes! Harsh? Very! Of all of the demos I attended, this was my 3rd favorite.
What was your top 2?

I don't get why some installers need to demo the systems at those extreme SPL's. Maybe they think it will "wow" the majority of visitors, but for me it's completely useless. I have no chance to actually listen to what the system can do, as it is painfully loud leaving me with the impression that the speakers are harsh.

With that being said, Alcons speakers look interesting.

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post #9 of 31 Old 09-26-2016, 07:39 AM
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What was your top 2?
Number 1: Wisdom Audio/Datasat -- and to my ears, the best by a long shot. Vocals were incredibly natural (more so than any other demo) as it appears everyone else cranked up the bass which, of course, will affect the lower range of vocals making them sound too chesty; very immersive and excellent bass (which is usually seating location dependent and we were pretty much dead center). Not everyone's favorite, but certainly mine.

Number 2: Pro Audio Technology
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post #10 of 31 Old 09-26-2016, 08:23 AM
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Mark.... It was 11.4.8 actually!

Please update the title of the thread.
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post #11 of 31 Old 09-26-2016, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Rosenberg View Post
My first impression, even before reading the review, was, "What has this got to do with home theater?" The art of the AVS hobby is quality sound and picture in smaller spaces, and on small budgets. This rig is just a medium sized industrial theater and as such is of no particular newsworthyness to the home theater enthusiast. At least not to this home theater enthusiast.
I use the Alcons Compacts in a 20' L x 15' W x 8' H room and the sound is fantastic (very immersive [wall of sound], very neutral sound [their lanyards list WYMIWYG - {What You Mix Is What You Get}], extremely wide dispersions [despite being very close to speakers]). The CEDIA demo was a proof of concept of the CR3 speaker in a "smaller" room. These (Compacts) are still for very high end systems as they are priced very high, but don't confuse this brand with only 'High SPL'. There is magic behind their HF driver (Pro-Ribbon) and when you take the time to investigate these innovations and more importantly, test an appropriate Alcons system in more familiar environments, you will quickly learn/hear the differences.
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post #12 of 31 Old 09-26-2016, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Mark.... It was 11.4.8 actually!

Please update the title of the thread.
OK. As per AVS editorial, the subwoofer channel still has to be listed as point-one since there's only one LFE channel; I'll make the necessary changes to reflect this.
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post #13 of 31 Old 09-26-2016, 09:51 AM
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Thanks for the report Mark.

Systems like the Alcon as you have described it fall into the category of "Just because you can do it doesn't necessarily mean you should do it."

By no means do I mean to say companies "should not" be investigating ways of producing cleaner, more realistic or dynamic sound. Or that this "shouldn't" be enjoyed by some people.

Rather, it's just that, the march onward of technology tends to, at some point, face us with dilemmas. And some of the dilemmas that come to mind about a system like this are:

1. What is meant for?
If it were meant for commercial use, then the type of extremes in volume and dynamics that marks out this system seem reasonable insofar as it would be a once in a while experience for the public.

But if it is proposed for home theater use, then then that raises the specter of the owner being subjected to possibly ear damaging experiences much more routinely. Once could say "well you don't have to play it loud, or watch movies with percussive high dynamics" but then why purchase a system whose design goal is to exceed other systems in just those areas?

2. The closer we can get to recreating sonic reality, we have to ask how "real" we want our sonic experience to be. There are innumerable movie scenes that depict close distance to sounds that would deafen us, whether it's a rocket taking off, or warship guns, tanks, buildings exploding, you name it. People have bone deaf, or have suffered permanent hearing loss/tinnitus through one unfortunate exposure to a gun going off too close to their ear. Imagine being routinely exposed to real sound level gunshots going off in your home theater room! One may as well pack the same hearing protection one needs at the gun range for the average shoot-em up movie.

Personally, I do want technology to continue to progress and allow for the choice of realism for the film-maker (and sound designer, since that's what I do). But then faced with the choices I think we will most often want to go for "dramatic realism" vs strict realism (where the sound balance supports a dramatically compelling scene, vs strict realism which would often detract; and this is generally the approach to mixing we already take).
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post #14 of 31 Old 09-26-2016, 11:49 AM
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I´ve been using Alcons in my showroom in Norway for 7 years or so now, and although the CR3-system presented at CEDIA might be a bit "overkill" for the room it was displayed in, Alcons offer excellent alternatives for smaller cinema rooms as well. I guess this year, Alcons wanted to show that even large speakers can sound great in a "small" room (the CR3s are designed for up to 350 seats...), and although the SPL might have been a bit on the loud side for some, the dynamics of the system was simply astounding on the clips where the SPL was more appropriate, for example The Man From U.N.C.L.E., my new reference in terms of both clip and how it sounded on that particular Alcons-setup.

In our showroom, we have placed 3x CRMSc (Cinema Reference Monitor System compact version) as LCR´s, added two 15" front loaded subs and placed it in a proper built baffle wall. For surrounds and ceiling we use 4 + 4 CRMSc surrounds. Room is about 15 feet wide by 23 feet deep. We have also added one Velodyne 15" sealed sub to take care of the really low frequencies (15-20Hz). How does it sound? Well, what can I tell ya; Great; tick - dynamic; tick - harsh; not at ALL. We have spend a lot of time tweaking the system with our previous prepro, and had it sounding great at 7.2, but we recently altered to a Marantz 8802 as we needed Atmos / DTS:X-support due to the installation of ceiling speakers recently and currently we have just ran auto calibration without any adjustments. As with most setups, "auto" is not sufficient, but we plan to add a miniDSP-device shortly to enhance the eq / response further. One "trap" that we have had to adjust for a little previously is that sometimes the top might sound a bit "direct" after autocalibration for some reason. Might just be the fact that the ribbons are able to deliver such astounding clarity that a little eq needs to be applied accordingly, alternatively that the acoustical screen absorbs a tad bit more at high frequencies during the sweeps than at higher SPLs later on (guess we could try alternating the sweep SPLs though...), leaving the top frequencies a tad bit more edgy than the mic is able to measure; anyhow, we normally click the upper frequencies a notch down to give a little softer approach.

Anyhow, on the comments in terms of Alcons not being able to supply home cinema (albeit hi-end) systems that for most parts - except for max SPL - sound very similar to the CR3 system at CEDIA is not quite accurate... Also, the CRMSc-system sounds great also at far more moderate SPLs, which I am sure the CR3-system does as well..

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post #15 of 31 Old 09-26-2016, 12:07 PM
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Very very cool setup as I would expect no less from Peter!! I would of loved to have been at CEDIA to experience this and the other Atmos demos.

This is indeed a no-holds-barred setup, designed for the upper limits of EVERYTHING. Extreme is the name of the game with Cineramax and his client base demands nothing short of that.

The fact that the Alcons system can play at such high SPL levels while retaining dynamics with very low distortion and sound great while doing it is phenomenal. It means realistically, one would not have to worry about any system strain at normal and/or higher spirited listening levels, granted the source material is up to par. That alone is a HUGE asset IMO. Its what ive come to demand out of my audio system.

While I can't give opinion on the demo I am sure it was not for the faint of heart and decibel levels were insanely high lol! This is not for everyone obviously, and I could understand some peoples views being of a different nature. I have been very intrigued by Alcons and their amp designs since I first read about them in one of Peters threads. I would love to hear them someday.
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If you can't hear the crickets and gunfire then why bother really - what is the world coming to!🚽
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If you can't hear the crickets and gunfire then why bother really - what is the world coming to!🚽
you mean while you're sitting on the toilet?
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Did you ever get to listen to them at more...sane lavels?

Compared to traditional cinema class speakers along the lines of a JBL 4722n or QSC, how do you think they sounded?

Back in my PA days, I thought it would be interesting to run movie theater PA speakers for modern music to get better clarity and deeper bass response--until I saw the size/weight of such things.

Are there any Alcons speakers that can be used with typical basement size home theaters or are they proprietary in nature so not really compatible with AVRs, Pre-pros and equipment of that ilk?

Might be a good option to stuff behind a screen, always good to look at pro and studio speakers along with consumer stuff to flesh things out a bit. Just as you can use powered studio monitors for computer speakers, why not use pro and PA speakers for home theater? Some days you just have to let slip the speakers of war.
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post #19 of 31 Old 09-27-2016, 01:24 AM
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Did you ever get to listen to them at more...sane lavels?

Compared to traditional cinema class speakers along the lines of a JBL 4722n or QSC, how do you think they sounded?

Back in my PA days, I thought it would be interesting to run movie theater PA speakers for modern music to get better clarity and deeper bass response--until I saw the size/weight of such things.

Are there any Alcons speakers that can be used with typical basement size home theaters or are they proprietary in nature so not really compatible with AVRs, Pre-pros and equipment of that ilk?

Might be a good option to stuff behind a screen, always good to look at pro and studio speakers along with consumer stuff to flesh things out a bit. Just as you can use powered studio monitors for computer speakers, why not use pro and PA speakers for home theater? Some days you just have to let slip the speakers of war.
One of the main advantages with the Alcons systems, especially the CRMS (Cinema Reference Monitoring System) and the CRMSc (Cinema Reference Monitoring System compact) is the fact that they are made for taking up as little space as is physically possible. Instead of depth, the system uses height / width to make up speaker volume. As you are to place these speakers behind an acoustical fabric covered wall anyhow, the width / height is really of little consequence provided you have a room width of about 15 feet or more. The CRMSc as well as the corresponding subwoofer only takes up about 9" of depth, which is one of the shallowest systems out there without any loss of performance due to inadequate volume.

As for the amps, they are part of the system and cannot be replaced by a regular AVR. Each speaker uses a proprietary set of "sensing" wires that increases dampening to 10.000 (and remains at this level even using long stretches of speaker cabling) - compared to that of regular AVRs of typically 5-700 (and often far less, as much as 10 times additional loss after longer stretches of speaker cabling). Translated, this means that Alcons is able to control the regular drivers very effeciently as well - and in combination with the high powered ribbon that basicly does not distort at any SPL (and also has a 90 degree dispersion!!), these speakers are one of a kind......

To give an example of how the system performs in "real life" I am often referring to a friend of mine that has tinnitus due to high exposure of "off the grid" SPLs during his younger days. He is very sensitive to loud noises and can feel pain for a long time after visiting his local cinema. However, even at (almost) reference levels in my Alcons room, he has no fatigue. I do not have tinnitus or any other issues with my hearing, but the experience is the same for me as well. The fact that the system distorts so little as it does makes it far less fatiguing to listen to. STILL, and this is important; the system CAN and WILL blow your eardrum if you do not carefully adjust the SPL based rather on a fixed volume (that has been control-measured using a SPL meter!) than your hearing alone. A system that is not distorting like we´re used to is very easy to adjust to damaging levels without understanding the damage until it is too late. I really liked the analogy presented by Mark Henninger here, truly depicts what kind of system this really is (albeit the CR3s are capable of even more "damage" than the CRMSs) - "handle with care" seems to be a smart approach;

"This is not just a sports car compared to the other systems that are mere luxury sedans, this is more like a Formula One or Indy 500 race car. You get performance that is several orders of magnitude beyond what's offered to consumers, but you better bet your butt that you're gonna feel every single ripple in the asphalt. And with that much power on-tap, and if you're not careful you can get into trouble very quickly and easily—I strongly recommend against extended exposure to the sort of audio levels that system is capable of."
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post #20 of 31 Old 09-27-2016, 12:56 PM
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Reading this review I get the impression you claim this is the best, or at least among the very best, system money can buy, but it does not present a sound that you would like to listen to.

That does not make sense to me.

If the sound is not pleasing and enjoyable, something is wrong with the sound.
It does not necessarily mean the system itself is at fault, but when you find yourself wanting to just leave the room, it seems to me that the experience was not enjoyable.

The problem here is that readers are left with the impression that a better sound system does not sound better.
I do not agree with that.

Several issues could cause this; too loud and it will not be pleasing regardless of how good the system is, wrong tonal balance (frequency response), too high early reflection level, speakers compressing and distorting.
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post #21 of 31 Old 09-27-2016, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Reading this review I get the impression you claim this is the best, or at least among the very best, system money can buy, but it does not present a sound that you would like to listen to.

That does not make sense to me.

If the sound is not pleasing and enjoyable, something is wrong with the sound.
It does not necessarily mean the system itself is at fault, but when you find yourself wanting to just leave the room, it seems to me that the experience was not enjoyable.

The problem here is that readers are left with the impression that a better sound system does not sound better.

I do not agree with that.

Several issues could cause this; too loud and it will not be pleasing regardless of how good the system is, wrong tonal balance (frequency response), too high early reflection level, speakers compressing and distorting.
Hopefully I can help clarify. This is not a review. I will never call anything that I write up at a show, after it's demoed in an unfamiliar room, using someone else's movie and music selections, and that at best consists of minutes not hours of auditioning the gear, a review.

It being too loud at times is just that, something I reported on because it happened while I was there. There's nothing more to read into it.
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post #22 of 31 Old 09-27-2016, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Hopefully I can help clarify. This is not a review.
...
Bad choice of word from me, I did not see it as a review either, I should have written demo.

I was just trying to communicate the feeling I got from reading the impressions; kind of like, is this all that sound is about, isn't there more to experience and enjoy - because there is more.

The demo situation is difficult - there is this one opportunity to show off the system, in a very short time.
Choice of program material, listening volume, what the audience was doing right before entering, all contribute perhaps more than the sound system itself.

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post #23 of 31 Old 09-28-2016, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okv View Post
Bad choice of word from me, I did not see it as a review either, I should have written demo.

I was just trying to communicate the feeling I got from reading the impressions; kind of like, is this all that sound is about, isn't there more to experience and enjoy - because there is more.

The demo situation is difficult - there is this one opportunity to show off the system, in a very short time.
Choice of program material, listening volume, what the audience was doing right before entering, all contribute perhaps more than the sound system itself.
There are definitely a lot of sound profiles that would make for a totally different experience of this system... For example using content of less aggressive nature, turning the SPL down a notch or two, and a number of other factors that would alter the result. I guess the contrast to this setup is the typical violins and classical pieces played at most Hi-End Hi-Fi shows... They did play a number of alternative content in the Alcons booth outside the regular 30 min runs by the way, one of them being a true digitally 24bit / 96kHz Auro recording multichannel jazz (I think?!) concert. During "offtime", they also played off a number of older, classic movie clips, for example a Barbara Streisand musical scene I don´t remember the name of...

Anyhow, selecting proper content for these types of short demos is really challenging, this particular setup was meant to showcase multichannel immersiveness and henceforth clips that were particularly "active" in such regards were selected for the regular 30 min demo;


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post #24 of 31 Old 09-28-2016, 11:49 AM
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@Lygren , agree that demo material is difficult, and the shorter the demo, the more difficult, you want to show off everything the system can do, and it is easy to overdo it.
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post #25 of 31 Old 09-29-2016, 09:29 AM
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I will say some people merely walked in at the wrong time of demos. Like for example when he specifically did the demo for me at full tilt of movie only material when the show was closing down. I have a huge room so need capable speakers to reach reference+ levels from all channel locations. Peter (Cineramax) had quite a few people like myself specifically come to his room to hear what the system was capable of doing.

I never once heard any distortion from a single channel and will say that the rear section was totally different in this demo as far as sound. When I was in the front row I was showered by the mains and widths/side surrounds (I don't know what channel they were specifically) but when we sat in the rear section it was like going into a completely different demo. The entire room came alive and sounds where everywhere. It was like I could reach out and grab the sound is how well it did.

If I was wealthy enough to purchase a full 24-32 channel Alcons system I would but since I can't I have to go with the next best thing- Quested. Quested has been known for a while longer than Alcons but they are both known for transparency and dynamics without fatigue. Both play loud and recreate the content as it was recorded.
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post #26 of 31 Old 10-01-2016, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Hopefully I can help clarify. This is not a review. I will never call anything that I write up at a show, after it's demoed in an unfamiliar room, using someone else's movie and music selections, and that at best consists of minutes not hours of auditioning the gear, a review.

It being too loud at times is just that, something I reported on because it happened while I was there. There's nothing more to read into it.
The appeal of the alcons is that they were supposed to be not harsh at raised volumes, so when people talk about walking out of the demo because it was too loud, it gets a bit confusing. I thought the system sounded great at raised volumes, but the bass seemed mild to me considering that there was 2 subs running the same 21" B&C driver I am using in my DIY othorns.

After hearing Peter's room on Thursday and a good portion of Friday, I thought it would be amazing to own alcons. I wanted the best they offer, so I placed my attention on the cr4, which appears to be the best they offered on their site. Later I discovered that they make or made a cr5, which I dont see on their site in 2016.

I know that I would need to tri amp the cr4, and considering the cr5 has 2 subwoofer boxes on the bottom instead of 1, I am thinking it would be necessary to perhaps quad amp.
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post #27 of 31 Old 10-02-2016, 04:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennynike1 View Post
The appeal of the alcons is that they were supposed to be not harsh at raised volumes, so when people talk about walking out of the demo because it was too loud, it gets a bit confusing. I thought the system sounded great at raised volumes, but the bass seemed mild to me considering that there was 2 subs running the same 21" B&C driver I am using in my DIY othorns.

After hearing Peter's room on Thursday and a good portion of Friday, I thought it would be amazing to own alcons. I wanted the best they offer, so I placed my attention on the cr4, which appears to be the best they offered on their site. Later I discovered that they make or made a cr5, which I dont see on their site in 2016.

I know that I would need to tri amp the cr4, and considering the cr5 has 2 subwoofer boxes on the bottom instead of 1, I am thinking it would be necessary to perhaps quad amp.
Not confusing at all. When it was turned up that high, it was a harsh experience. Regardless of how "clean" the output may have been. There certainly were a significant number of people who found the loud demo segments effectively intolerable, and shared that opinion.

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post #28 of 31 Old 10-06-2016, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Not confusing at all. When it was turned up that high, it was a harsh experience. Regardless of how "clean" the output may have been. There certainly were a significant number of people who found the loud demo segments effectively intolerable, and shared that opinion.
There is a misconception that a capable system with very low distortion can play at any volume without fatique. That is simply not true as was discovered by many.

There's no doubt that it will subjectively sound less loud than a less capable system, but there are limits.
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post #29 of 31 Old 10-07-2016, 07:23 PM
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Am I the only one that finds the idea of judging audio gear in a different and non-optimal space then in your own home or space kind of an absurd process? Seriously. I mean these events are a blast but anything Id purchase in the 5 figure range will be in my house before I pay for it to judge it for myself in my space. Any audio demo is of little value to the person who plans to put them in their own space. Its alot of fun and video can be judged pretty precise but just way too many variables to judge an audio system to much extent. Its something of a sore spot with me.

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post #30 of 31 Old 12-06-2016, 07:38 AM
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For what is worth I found the Trinnov harsh sounding with procella speakers. At first I thought it could be the speakers but trying trinnov with a different set of JBLs horns and conclusion were the same. So I am unsure if this is related to setup or the processor.
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