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post #181 of 660 Old 12-19-2012, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by petetherock View Post

Thanks, Yep - the raised F 113 with a new ARO cal, helped - tighter too. But the MBM was also very welcome in helping with the mid bass - something I was missing.
I am looking for a warmer sound...
I have a marble floor - that old carpet will go after the wild doomsday / X Mas parties .... will be using a larger carpet and getting my acoustic chap to come in.
Thanks for the comments, I posted on my blog on the effort to make this room - did most of the design myself with acoustic feedback from a friend who runs a calibration shop. The wood panels are from Swiss Acoustic company and have rockwool behind them. It's not just regular cabinets or paneling... smile.gif

How high did you raise it Pete ?

I raised one of them (back right corner) when my friend came through I wanted to experiment with new ways. Didnt raise it too much but seemed to get a similar result.

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post #182 of 660 Old 12-19-2012, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Franin View Post

How high did you raise it Pete ?
I raised one of them (back right corner) when my friend came through I wanted to experiment with new ways. Didnt raise it too much but seemed to get a similar result.
It's in the blog - picture there.
About 50 cm...

But it's not on a wooden platform alone, the base is solid concrete...
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post #183 of 660 Old 12-20-2012, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by petetherock View Post

It's in the blog - picture there.
About 50 cm...
But it's not on a wooden platform alone, the base is solid concrete...

Will have a look

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post #184 of 660 Old 12-22-2012, 11:49 PM
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I see that you were "considering" triad platinum's...I would definitely be interested in seeing ow 802Ds compare to them!

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #185 of 660 Old 12-23-2012, 04:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

I see that you were "considering" triad platinum's...I would definitely be interested in seeing ow 802Ds compare to them!

I've pulled back from that thought - did some repositioning of my speakers and a new calibration with positive effect, and awaiting an 8801 processor to experience its impact.

Plus I could not even "irrationalize" the cost of the switch out all the way around, and the b&w's let me stay with the same drivers all the way around except for the heights. Still need to swap the rear m1's to 805 diamonds however...

Or I might be removing the large wall unit, put a new pair of 803 Diamonds as Wides, and move the existing 805's to the rear
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post #186 of 660 Old 12-23-2012, 08:04 AM
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I would have to think the 803's would be better for wides than the 805's just due to the simple fact we hear more precisely from the front and even to the sides then we do from behind so the more capable 803's with the FST midrange and separate bass drivers would be the more logical choice providing no room limitations for their placement of course. Since you are also running heights it would be cool if you could get a wall mount apparatus to perfectly align to the holes in the bottom of the 805's because they would parbably make supurb height speakers even if inverted if you had to attach a mount to the ceiling rather than the wall.

Another way to add to the soundstage up front would be to add a center 802 but like myself your setup doesn't permit that unfortunatgely. Curse B&W for discontinuing the HTM1D. All us D2 owners need to get together and get a petition going biggrin.gif

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post #187 of 660 Old 12-23-2012, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post

I would have to think the 803's would be better for wides than the 805's just due to the simple fact we hear more precisely from the front and even to the sides then we do from behind so the more capable 803's with the FST midrange and separate bass drivers would be the more logical choice providing no room limitations for their placement of course. Since you are also running heights it would be cool if you could get a wall mount apparatus to perfectly align to the holes in the bottom of the 805's because they would parbably make supurb height speakers even if inverted if you had to attach a mount to the ceiling rather than the wall.
Another way to add to the soundstage up front would be to add a center 802 but like myself your setup doesn't permit that unfortunatgely. Curse B&W for discontinuing the HTM1D. All us D2 owners need to get together and get a petition going biggrin.gif

Yes, key though is if that large wall unt can fit in the spac I'm thinking - it will be tight, but without being able to move it, I can never get a 803 on the right side

Out for the day but will be checking in detail in the next day or two

And I'd love to get 805's high, but it may be awkward and I don't know of a way to secure them strongly, in aesthetically pleasing and aim-anble way...
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post #188 of 660 Old 12-23-2012, 02:56 PM
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Have you tried heights before opting for wides?

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #189 of 660 Old 12-23-2012, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Have you tried heights before opting for wides?

Heights I am doing with m1's, when Santa brings the 8801... But harder to do proper heights...
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post #190 of 660 Old 12-24-2012, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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So it looks like I can move that wall unit - which means I can fit another pair of 803D2's as wides....

This will be fun...
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post #191 of 660 Old 12-24-2012, 10:05 AM
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Have a Happy Holidays Thrang! Remember to embrace what's important to you and also give that system a whirl, it needs love and attention too!
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post #192 of 660 Old 12-24-2012, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by thrang View Post

So it looks like I can move that wall unit - which means I can fit another pair of 803D2's as wides....
This will be fun...

LOL.. I just assumed you were going to move your current 803's if you could move the wall unit, not get another pair eek.gif Very, very nice. You could try and find a used pair of piano black 802's biggrin.gif four 802's up front would be wild. Either way, can't wait to see those pictures biggrin.gif

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post #193 of 660 Old 12-24-2012, 10:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Have a Happy Holidays Thrang! Remember to embrace what's important to you and also give that system a whirl, it needs love and attention too!

Thanks - merry Christmas - busy preparing for dinner tomorrow, so the toys sit idle -
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post #194 of 660 Old 12-24-2012, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
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LOL.. I just assumed you were going to move your current 803's if you could move the wall unit, not get another pair eek.gif Very, very nice. You could try and find a used pair of piano black 802's biggrin.gif four 802's up front would be wild. Either way, can't wait to see those pictures biggrin.gif

But then I would lose the 803's for the surrounds...
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post #195 of 660 Old 12-24-2012, 11:19 AM
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I meant keep the 803's in the surround position and get a 2nd pair of 802's, so it would be four 802's up front, the HTM2, the existing 803's for surrounds and existing 805's for rears rather than two 802's, two new 803's for widths, the HTM2, your existing 803's for the surrounds and your existing 805's for the rears.

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post #196 of 660 Old 12-24-2012, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post

I meant keep the 803's in the surround position and get a 2nd pair of 802's, so it would be four 802's up front, the HTM2, the existing 803's for surrounds and existing 805's for rears rather than two 802's, two new 803's for widths, the HTM2, your existing 803's for the surrounds and your existing 805's for the rears.

Yes, I understand you latter post as this, but you original post about putting the 803's to side was what I was reponding to...

Nonetheless, I'm crazy (803) but not that crazy (802)!

But an interesting thought!
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post #197 of 660 Old 12-24-2012, 11:33 PM
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802s for wides? crazy talk!

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #198 of 660 Old 12-25-2012, 05:57 AM
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No such thing as crazy my friend biggrin.gif That's like people saying it doesn't matter what speaker is used for surround speakers regardless of what the front 3 might be. I have never had an opportunity to listen to a system with wides yet and the manufacturers are oddly very vague in what the speakers real role is supposed to be such as how much content is being sent to these speakers and what frequency range the speakers are seeing however with the wides being up front the human ear is more likely to be able to pick out differences in performance in a wide speaker than a surround and especially a rear speaker.

What I would like to know with absolute certainty and it would be interesting to be able to do a test of this is to see if whenever the main L/R speakers get a signal if the wides also get the signal (and if it is the same frequency band or somehow always frequency restricted) and if there is no signal in the L/R speakers if the wides ever get their own discrete signal. This second scenario is unlikely considering there is no Blu-ray support for discrete channels beyond 7.1, you would need 9.1 discrete as channels 6 and 7 are used for rear surrounds, currently all channels beyond 7.1, so 8.1, 9.1, 10.1 and 11.1 are accomplished via matrix processing. Knowing all of this would go a long way in understaning the role the wide speaker plays. If going by the very name alone, wide/width one could make a reasonable assumption that these speakers are strictly tied to the signals of the main L/R speakers to widen or spreadout the soundstage but in practice that may not be what is happening. The other complication that comes to mind is different manufacturers using these speakers in different ways because these width channels, just like the height channels are essentially made up channels, for example dts probably derives these signals differently than Audyssey. Dolby only has support for heights so they aren't currently a player.

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post #199 of 660 Old 12-25-2012, 07:33 PM
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Hey Thrang did you have a lovely Christmas?

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post #200 of 660 Old 12-25-2012, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes Franks, thanks - tried some "Gordon Ramsay" recipes - not for me however - how about you?

Just finishing an 11 point Pro cal on the new 8801!
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post #201 of 660 Old 12-25-2012, 07:41 PM
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Yes Franks, thanks - tried some "Gordon Ramsay" recipes - not for me however - how about you?
Just finishing an 11 point Pro cal on the new 8801!


Gordon Ramsay has some nice food but wouldn't want to work for him biggrin.gif we had a great Christmas thank you with family on both sides. smile.gif congrats on your 8801 how is it? How did you go with the 11 point cal ?

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post #202 of 660 Old 12-25-2012, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Gordon Ramsay has some nice food but wouldn't want to work for him biggrin.gif we had a great Christmas thank you with family on both sides. smile.gif congrats on your 8801 how is it? How did you go with the 11 point cal ?

Way too early to make any meaningful judgements, but a bit ambivalent about the sound at the moment...Pro cal oddly set one sub at 6.1 feet away (actual is 13.2), while the other it set at 14.3 (actual 13.6) All other distances seem normal, both subs are identical and did not have such results with the Integra 80.3 cal.

May do a standard Audyssey 3 point cal to check the distances, and then another quick 3 point Pro to see if there's an issue or just a one time anomaly.
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post #203 of 660 Old 12-26-2012, 07:54 AM
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Yeah give it another go, I'm sure the 8801 is fine, subwoofer distances are tricky for calibration software to measure accurately. So much so that the engineers at Lexicon did not include auto sub distance settings in the Lexicon MC-12 which I have and it actually uses 4 mics for calibration. It does everything else automatically but not that.

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post #204 of 660 Old 12-26-2012, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah give it another go, I'm sure the 8801 is fine, subwoofer distances are tricky for calibration software to measure accurately. So much so that the engineers at Lexicon did not include auto sub distance settings in the Lexicon MC-12 which I have and it actually uses 4 mics for calibration. It does everything else automatically but not that.

Let's see - doing another cal now...I've also emailed Audyssey tech support to see if they can address anything in this regard....
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post #205 of 660 Old 12-28-2012, 04:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah give it another go, I'm sure the 8801 is fine, subwoofer distances are tricky for calibration software to measure accurately. So much so that the engineers at Lexicon did not include auto sub distance settings in the Lexicon MC-12 which I have and it actually uses 4 mics for calibration. It does everything else automatically but not that.

Yes, another 10 point cal, and sub distances are normalized again.

Pair of 803D's ordered for Wides, and will have custom wall brackets made for 805 heights....
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post #206 of 660 Old 12-28-2012, 06:13 AM
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Yes, another 10 point cal, and sub distances are normalized again.
Pair of 803D's ordered for Wides, and will have custom wall brackets made for 805 heights....

Awesome stuff Thrang. Wides and heights that will be amazing smile.gif

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post #207 of 660 Old 12-28-2012, 06:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Awesome stuff Thrang. Wides and heights that will be amazing smile.gif

I hope my idea for the brackets will work - I know someone adept with a welder, and would get it powder coated for a nice finish.

He won't be around till January 20th or so, so a little time to speculate...
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post #208 of 660 Old 12-28-2012, 07:09 AM
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Yes, another 10 point cal, and sub distances are normalized again.
Pair of 803D's ordered for Wides, and will have custom wall brackets made for 805 heights....

Excellent, I'm gald the second calibration worked out. I look forward to your new wide and height setup. Seeing 805's mounted as heights will look awesome smile.gif So for your wall unit are you just moving it, say to the rear of the room or getting rid of it completely?

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post #209 of 660 Old 12-28-2012, 07:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Excellent, I'm gald the second calibration worked out. I look forward to your new wide and height setup. Seeing 805's mounted as heights will look awesome smile.gif So for your wall unit are you just moving it, say to the rear of the room or getting rid of it completely?

The wall unit barely fits in my office, so it will go there- I have some decorative handmade Turkish rugs to hang on the wall to dress it up and help reduce reflection points...I'll need to drill some new wire holes since some wires currently hidden by the wall unit will be exposed. This will also allow be to experiment with other sub positions to see if there is any further improvement to be had
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post #210 of 660 Old 12-28-2012, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
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803's arrived already - faster than I could prep the room!

Letting them acclimate for a while as there was some condensation on the outside of the speaker when unpacking....
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