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post #121 of 717 Old 02-26-2011, 03:36 AM - Thread Starter
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ddgtr,

Looking at your photos over in your thread again, it causes me to think that perhaps it isn't all that important to have a TV stand that's of comparable width to the TV. It certainly doesn't hurt your setup. I thought having a stand the same width as the set (or close) gave a more solid look to my setup, and it does. But I'm wondering now about returning my trusty Sanus Euro to the job or going all out on a Billy Bags rack (a lot more money). My side racks are tall, and the thought was the gap between would look too awkward. The Sanus is 40"; BB racks are customizable. I think I could get away with the Sanus if I shorten the side racks by a shelf. I'm trying to visualize, but perhaps a diagram or scale drawing will help.

If I make this move it'd be in summer. Currently BB is behind on orders, so it's reasonable to consider this could take a while.
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post #122 of 717 Old 02-26-2011, 08:12 AM
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Mornin' Charles,

I understand.

In my case, I just wanted something that would allow me to do play around with the components' location. I took into consideration the fact that I will do tube swapping in my preamp, try out and compare different components and so on. I am starting to have a better idea of what the final look would be, probably a custom made Ikea-style simple design that would be a bit wider than the tv to give it that solid look you were mentioning.
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post #123 of 717 Old 02-26-2011, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, reconfiguring systems can be challenging. The flexibility is a plus for you, since your final combination isn't set yet.

Another thought is, in my case, it means i can do more experimenting with interconnects, namely the AQ King Cobra I have going from preamp to power amp versus the Tara Labs Quantum 4 (from way back in the early '90s) I was happy with before. The Hooker cabinet is a nice piece of furniture, but isn't friendly to the type of equipment I have. And depending upon the way I reconfig, it would mean new power cords.

Knowing me, I'll end up getting the more expensive option (Billy Bags) if I do this, but I'd like the flexibility to move things around or just swap interconnects easily, and either option will do that. But which will look and be best in the long run? That's the question.
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post #124 of 717 Old 02-26-2011, 11:02 PM
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I just went through all five pages of this thread, and I have to say--this journey of yours is quite interesting. I will be staying tuned. I just ended difficult decision between getting a PS Audio AV5000 or adding a second Panamax M5300--I ended up getting both, and deciding to downgrade a power cable order from some foolishly priced Pangea Power Cable to the PS Audio AC5 to even out the cost......so here I'm going through these posts, and i see it's really stiff. I'm hoping it's not too stiff for my set up. I'd hate to have to return it.
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post #125 of 717 Old 02-27-2011, 03:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
I just went through all five pages of this thread, and I have to say--this journey of yours is quite interesting. I will be staying tuned. I just ended difficult decision between getting a PS Audio AV5000 or adding a second Panamax M5300--I ended up getting both, and deciding to downgrade a power cable order from some foolishly priced Pangea Power Cable to the PS Audio AC5 to even out the cost......so here I'm going through these posts, and i see it's really stiff. I'm hoping it's not too stiff for my set up. I'd hate to have to return it.
Hello BrolicBeast,

I've seen the Pangea cords at quite reduced prices from Audio Advisor. Where did you get yours? The PS Audio cords were too stiff for me, but that may have been exacerbated by my setup, as one amp is on the shelf directly below my voltage regulator. I got it connected, of course, but it was too awkward for my comfort level. Sound-wise, there seemed to be a bit more bass, though that wasn't confirmed with having the cords in place long enough to verify that as a consistent feature. I like the look and construction, though, and they should be less stiff than the Pangea (if you mean the AC-9, which is 7AWG, versus the PSA AC-5's 10AWG). The only problem I have with the Wirewrold Aurora 5.2 I use now is the jacket color. Magenta doesn't match anything in my setup (or the room, for that matter).

By the way, I just took a quick look at your setup and was impressed by how clean it is. It's a nice setup, and the kind that makes me wish I had a house, rather than a 1BR apartment, which I've probably crammed too much stuff into.
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post #126 of 717 Old 02-27-2011, 06:34 AM
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Hello BrolicBeast,

I've seen the Pangea cords at quite reduced prices from Audio Advisor. Where did you get yours? The PS Audio cords were too stiff for me, but that may have been exacerbated by my setup, as one amp is on the shelf directly below my voltage regulator. I got it connected, of course, but it was too awkward for my comfort level. Sound-wise, there seemed to be a bit more bass, though that wasn't confirmed with having the cords in place long enough to verify that as a consistent feature. I like the look and construction, though, and they should be less stiff than the Pangea (if you mean the AC-9, which is 7AWG, versus the PSA AC-5's 10AWG). The only problem I have with the Wirewrold Aurora 5.2 I use now is the jacket color. Magenta doesn't match anything in my setup (or the room, for that matter).

By the way, I just took a quick look at your setup and was impressed by how clean it is. It's a nice setup, and the kind that makes me wish I had a house, rather than a 1BR apartment, which I've probably crammed too much stuff into.
Greetings, I just checked Audio Advisor and it wasn't a Pangea Audio Cord that had been in my cart...it was another PS Audio Cord called the AC-12. (I don't know how I got the names confused--maybe it was the "P" and "Audio" in both the names. Two weeks ago, I was a guy who did not believe that Power Cords could make a difference...I'm still on the fence, as I only took the plunge on an aftermarket Power Cord because it's tax return season and I wanted to see if the hype was real. It should arrive next week, so I suppose i'll find out then.

All this gear is in a one-br apartment???? my gosh--that's great!!! Back when I was doing the apt thing, my entire apartment could have fit in your living room!! lol...*sigh* college memories come to mind--primarily of being a broke college student studying on the floor! lol. If the AC5 is too stiff (or If I can't discern a difference), I may just stick with the stock Emotiva cord and call it a day. The amp already sounds phenomenal.
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post #127 of 717 Old 02-27-2011, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
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The PowerWave AC-12 is PSA's top-of-the-line power cord at 8AWG. Bound to be stiff. In terms of flexibility, I'm told that the Kimber PK10 (which I'm interested in) is even more flexible than Wireworld, which is more flexible than the PS Audio AC-5. What amazes me about this is that the Kimber is heavier gauge (10AWG) than the Wireworld (12AWG). It has to do with stranding and construction.

When I think of power cords, my thinking has been the heavier gauge is good for power transfer which could open up the sound a bit. Better power transfer can affect dynamics, as the amp has more available to work with. Yet, professional reviewers do cite differences in sound, sometimes with dramatic language. There was a recent survey in TAS (the December 2010 issue) on 13 power cords, with a description of how each affected the sound compared to a very expensive reference. It was interesting. I'm a cautious believer on this subject.

And yes, a 1BR, with a 14 x 18.5' living room. Ceiling is about 11'. IF I can ever get out from under the paper in here, it'll look better. An atomic shredder would help, over the one I have now.
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post #128 of 717 Old 02-27-2011, 09:40 AM
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Power cords and sound differences are a touchy subject... Just to make sure my amp is getting proper juice I added, as you know, the Shunyata cord.

What puzzles me a bit is say if the power is distributed to the rooms by whatever gauge wires meet minimum local building code requirements (and you KNOW the builder used the absolute minimum gauge required) then how is a much heavier gauge going from the plug to the amp going to make that better!?

Also, I would love to compare the Shunyata to the stock cord, but by the time I swap them I forget the sound signature (if any) of each. A switch based system is out of question for obvious reasons and the other alternative is too expensive which would be to have two identical systems side by side.

That said, better to have heavier gauge than not! Looks cooler, too!!
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post #129 of 717 Old 02-27-2011, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Power cords and sound differences are a touchy subject... Just to make sure my amp is getting proper juice I added, as you know, the Shunyata cord.

What puzzles me a bit is say if the power is distributed to the rooms by whatever gauge wires meet minimum local building code requirements (and you KNOW the builder used the absolute minimum gauge required) then how is a much heavier gauge going from the plug to the amp going to make that better!?

Also, I would love to compare the Shunyata to the stock cord, but by the time I swap them I forget the sound signature (if any) of each. A switch based system is out of question for obvious reasons and the other alternative is too expensive which would be to have two identical systems side by side.

That said, better to have heavier gauge than not! Looks cooler, too!!
As long as it's not too stiff!

One point some make is that, from the component's perspective, the power cord is the first few feet of the chain. And I'd guess the heavier gauge does allow current to flow more freely. How much of a difference in sound that makes is another story, but plenty of people hear a difference. I didn't get my WW cords expecting to hear one, certainly.

According to that same TAS article I mentioned earlier, the point was made (if I recall correctly) that any differences tend to be subtle usually, and unless one's system has enough resolving power, they may not be heard. As I say, I'm a cautious believer. Not totally sold, but not a true skeptic either.

Now, I'm waiting to find out when my new Furman will ship.
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post #130 of 717 Old 03-02-2011, 12:47 PM - Thread Starter
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I am pleased to report I got word today that the Furman SPR-20i has shipped (yesterday). I have a tracking number and can follow its exploits on its way to my place. A system reconfig is definitely in my future.
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post #131 of 717 Old 03-04-2011, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay, the other Furman has arrived:



It came while I was at work. I'll plan to post a picture or two once it's out of the box and in place. With this, my planned gear purchases are over. I said "planned" because you never know. And I don't count a possible change in my A/V stand this summer as gear, really. My plan is that there won't be any more gear purchases anytime soon unless something needs to be replaced.

But then, I said that years ago and look at what happened in the last 2 years plus. . .
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post #132 of 717 Old 03-05-2011, 09:09 AM - Thread Starter
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A TW Cable foreman was just here and we spent about an hour dealing with my infamous 60Hz hum issue, which manifested again recently (or at least I noticed it recently). I wouldn't want to use them regularly, but I'd like to thank the cheater plug society for lending themselves to the project .

The problem apparently has been traced to my Duo video processor. Putting cheaters on my MC501s didn't solve it, nor did putting the cable box directly into the TV. But a cheater plug on the Duo (despite the fact it's already a 2-prong plug, though it has the one larger prong) did the trick. So after I shower, have lunch and clean up the place I'll get down to installing the new Furman, and while I'm at it put everything back as it was except for the cheater on the Duo and see what happens.

And yes, I'll plan to post a pic of the system reconfig at some point soon.
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post #133 of 717 Old 03-05-2011, 09:30 AM
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Charles, congrats on the Furman! Hopefully it's going to set things straight in terms of g.loops.

Let me tell you a bit of my experience, because it "might" not be your Duo! When I was troubleshooting my g.loop, a quick remedy that solved it was a cheater plug on my preamp. Well, the hum was gone, but as I was trying unplugging each cable one by one to make sure the preamp was indeed the culprit, it turned out that as ONLY the amp and the sub were left connected, the exact same hum came back!! !$$#@

In the end it was the sub, although a cheater plug on the preamp solved it. Go figure.

Good luck with it, and I'm looking forward to the pics.
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post #134 of 717 Old 03-05-2011, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, there will be all kinds of ways to experiment, because both Furmans will be in the rack. I'm looking forward to the challenge. But cleaning up is more important because I have company tomorrow, so the reconfig comes second to that. But if I can do it today, I will!
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post #135 of 717 Old 03-06-2011, 02:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Everything's back the way it was except for the cheater plug on my Duo. The 60Hz hum is back, though not quite as bad as initially. That means I'll have to lift the ground on the amps again or put the Jensen Iso-Max back on the coax line (and give up a couple of cable channels).

My options are cheater plugs or buying new power cords, namely PS Audios, since they have the removable ground pin. One thing leads to another .
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post #136 of 717 Old 03-06-2011, 08:03 PM
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I am pleased to report I got word today that the Furman SPR-20i has shipped (yesterday). I have a tracking number and can follow its exploits on its way to my place. A system reconfig is definitely in my future.

I'm returning the PS Audio AC5000 on Monday to pick the SPR-20i. Turns out, the Ac5000's peak load is 15 amps. I'm going to need a conditioner that can handle 20Amps once I go the five-monoblock route. How is this performing for you thus far? I know it's difficult to quantify power-conditioner performance, but any improved sound quality from your gear?
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post #137 of 717 Old 03-07-2011, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm returning the PS Audio AC5000 on Monday to pick the SPR-20i. Turns out, the Ac5000's peak load is 15 amps. I'm going to need a conditioner that can handle 20Amps once I go the five-monoblock route. How is this performing for you thus far? I know it's difficult to quantify power-conditioner performance, but any improved sound quality from your gear?

Hello there,

The Furman SPR-20i has some neat features, one of which is that it comes with two power cords, one with a 20A wall plug and another with a 15A wall plug. And I can get a visual on power consumption or line voltage. The one negative so far is that you can't dim the display, which is a bit bright.

As for performance, the SPR got its first real use last night when I had a friend over (along with her Air Force-bound daughter) and we went through about 2-1/2 hours of DVD/BD concert exerpts. Things sounded quite good, certainly not worse than with the Tripplite LCR2400 the Furman replaced. I've never heard my system directly from the wall so I can't comment there. A real test may be once I get to playing other sources to see if there's a discernible difference. I'd need to pull out my usual go-to stuff and play it for a better answer to your question; I'm so familiar with those pieces that I'd be more likely to hear anything different going on with them first. My main reasons for getting the SPR are practical rather than sonic: it's more versatile than the Tripplite, offers features similar to the Furman Elite-15PFi it's chained to, and the rack looks more dangerous with it (don't laugh). Whether it sounds better will perhaps depend upon listening over time, maybe a couple of weeks.

If you don't need voltage regulation, there's the Furman Elite-20PFi for less money and with a 55A current reserve for power-hungry amps. But I remain pleased wth the SPR purchase. More as it develops.
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post #138 of 717 Old 03-07-2011, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
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As promised, here are photos of the new Furman in the rack. I moved the Elite-15PFi to the same rack as well. Sorry for the dust, but the room is still in transition plus it's an old building so it gathers dust quickly.





Still need to do something with the previous amps. I'm thinking donate them to Goodwill or the Salvation Army.
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post #139 of 717 Old 03-07-2011, 05:21 PM
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Looks like you did a nice job of setting everything up. It is always a good thing to have clean power. Hope you will enjoy the new sound.

Hometheatergeek

aka AL
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My Current System
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post #140 of 717 Old 03-07-2011, 05:24 PM
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Hello there,

The Furman SPR-20i has some neat features, one of which is that it comes with two power cords, one with a 20A wall plug and another with a 15A wall plug. And I can get a visual on power consumption or line voltage. The one negative so far is that you can't dim the display, which is a bit bright.

As for performance, the SPR got its first real use last night when I had a friend over (along with her Air Force-bound daughter) and we went through about 2-1/2 hours of DVD/BD concert exerpts. Things sounded quite good, certainly not worse than with the Tripplite LCR2400 the Furman replaced. I've never heard my system directly from the wall so I can't comment there. A real test may be once I get to playing other sources to see if there's a discernible difference. I'd need to pull out my usual go-to stuff and play it for a better answer to your question; I'm so familiar with those pieces that I'd be more likely to hear anything different going on with them first. My main reasons for getting the SPR are practical rather than sonic: it's more versatile than the Tripplite, offers features similar to the Furman Elite-15PFi it's chained to, and the rack looks more dangerous with it (don't laugh). Whether it sounds better will perhaps depend upon listening over time, maybe a couple of weeks.

If you don't need voltage regulation, there's the Furman Elite-20PFi for less money and with a 55A current reserve for power-hungry amps. But I remain pleased wth the SPR purchase. More as it develops.

Thanks for the breakdown man!!! Wow, that Furman certainly looks dangerous!!! That, plus the McIntosh gear right below--I had to take my hand off the mouse to make sure they didn't slice me through the computer. lol. I'll probably have to go with the SPR. Better to buy once, eh? (If such a thing as 'buy once' exists in the realm of home audio. lol)
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post #141 of 717 Old 03-08-2011, 02:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Looks like you did a nice job of setting everything up. It is always a good thing to have clean power. Hope you will enjoy the new sound.
Al,

Yes, I want to think I'm good for a while equipment-wise, and I'd like to settle in and listen to music/watch DVDs. But as we know, one thing leads to another, and I'd still like to change out my Hooker console for something more equipment-friendly, though I don't feel any urgency on that.

The only real challenge now is what to do about the ground loop issue mentioned earlier. For now, I put the Iso-Max back on the coax line. And I'm not pleased with the cable mess behind the rack. But fixing that ties in to whether I get a new rack, because it means another reconfig, and I want power cords to be the right length for that. As is, I'd have to buy new ones if I relocate the SPR.
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post #142 of 717 Old 03-08-2011, 02:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the breakdown man!!! Wow, that Furman certainly looks dangerous!!! That, plus the McIntosh gear right below--I had to take my hand off the mouse to make sure they didn't slice me through the computer. lol. I'll probably have to go with the SPR. Better to buy once, eh? (If such a thing as 'buy once' exists in the realm of home audio. lol)
If I'd thought about it more and not been in a hurry (because I wanted my new TV to be delivered!), I wouldn't be in this place now. I resisted racks like Billy Bags because I thought they were too much money, plus the Hooker looked good. But here I am thinking of getting a BB rack, which renders the Hooker a waste of money if I do.
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If I'd thought about it more and not been in a hurry (because I wanted my new TV to be delivered!), I wouldn't be in this place now. I resisted racks like Billy Bags because I thought they were too much money, plus the Hooker looked good. But here I am thinking of getting a BB rack, which renders the Hooker a waste of money if I do.
Billy Baggs are so expensive for what they are. If you're going to spend that much, have you taken a look at the Salamander Chameleon line? Check it out here: Chameleon Awesomeness for Prepress!! They come fully assembled, and that dark glass adds a classy touch. They also have rack-mount versions, if you still have the rack-mounting hardware for your gear (although it does come with some if you go the rack-mount versions v. the shelved version).
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post #144 of 717 Old 03-08-2011, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Billy Baggs are so expensive for what they are. If you're going to spend that much, have you taken a look at the Salamander Chameleon line? Check it out here: Chameleon Awesomeness for Prepress!! They come fully assembled, and that dark glass adds a classy touch. They also have rack-mount versions, if you still have the rack-mounting hardware for your gear (although it does come with some if you go the rack-mount versions v. the shelved version).
They look sturdier than the Synergy series, which I like. The Chameleons look good, too. The main problem is that, I am pretty much limited to 60" as a maximum width for any cabinet I get. But I keep them under my hat just in case.

As for Billy Bags, they have some models which could be customized to fit the bill for me. I haven't heard back from them on what my modifications would cost, though. I think I'll follow up again.
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They look sturdier than the Synergy series, which I like. The Chameleons look good, too. The main problem is that, I am pretty much limited to 60" as a maximum width for any cabinet I get. But I keep them under my hat just in case.

As for Billy Bags, they have some models which could be customized to fit the bill for me. I haven't heard back from them on what my modifications would cost, though. I think I'll follow up again.

True indeed--the BB's look like they could support a small skyscraper. lol. I didn't know they had customizable models though. Custom configuration>fixed configuration any day.
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post #146 of 717 Old 03-08-2011, 08:37 PM
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Congrats Charles, that rack is looking better and better!!!
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post #147 of 717 Old 03-09-2011, 02:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

True indeed--the BB's look like they could support a small skyscraper. lol. I didn't know they had customizable models though. Custom configuration>fixed configuration any day.

They will even build a rack to customer specs. And they do bear reasonable resemblance to the Sanus Euros I have already. If Sanus made a Euro wider than 40" at the same height as my current one this would be moot, as I'd have gotten that and case closed. The EFAV which is now off to the side holding computer-related stuff used to be my center stand.
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post #148 of 717 Old 03-09-2011, 02:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Congrats Charles, that rack is looking better and better!!!

Thanks. If I could tame the dust better, life here would be very good .
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post #149 of 717 Old 03-09-2011, 06:36 AM
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...

As for Billy Bags, they have some models which could be customized to fit the bill for me. I haven't heard back from them on what my modifications would cost, though. I think I'll follow up again.


Charles, just a thought: you could probably have a custom one made locally for quite a bit less. Powder coated any color you want, and get top made, either granite, glass, quartz (lighter than granite) or wood. It looks like a good welder could make them without problems.
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post #150 of 717 Old 03-09-2011, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Charles, just a thought: you could probably have a custom one made locally for quite a bit less. Powder coated any color you want, and get top made, either granite, glass, quartz (lighter than granite) or wood. It looks like a good welder could make them without problems.

This is not something I'd thought about. An interesting idea, one I should perhaps consider. And a bit of research certainly won't hurt in any case. Thanks.
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