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post #271 of 1003 Old 03-14-2012, 05:00 PM
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X2 on FOH's post. I break out the vinyl on a weekend morning a few times a year when the family is still asleep. I only have 3 milk crates full of albums (70's - 80's) and a couple shoe boxes stacked with 45's (mostly 80's). You can't get too comfortable though as I am always waiting for a skip to kick in. When the parents visit, I sometimes crank up (literally) the Victrola and play a little Benny Goodman.
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post #272 of 1003 Old 03-15-2012, 04:26 AM - Thread Starter
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I also like the fact that the record comes in a jacket that can contain so much information about the recording it self. Plus some of the art work on them is really nice. Spin the black circle, as Pearl Jam once said . I see myself listening a bit more from now on. Maybe not tonight but tomorrow and maybe the weekend I can spin some more.

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post #273 of 1003 Old 03-19-2012, 04:32 AM - Thread Starter
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My room has carpet. It is not fully plush carpet but it sinks down enough. My speakers are also ported on the bottom of the speaker. I never had them spiked. So I thought, if these are ported on or near the bottom, having the port directly flush with the carpet has to be bad. So I emailed the distributor and he sent me some spikes. 4 for each speaker. After a lot of effort, I had them spiked and put them back in the correct position. I can say that there is a difference. The bass while good before, improved. It became even more defined. Also, the mid range became more detailed and the vocals were clearer. It was worth the effort IMHO. Now I think I hearing more of what this speaker can do. Even though it is now several generations below the very top of Focal's food chain, they are fantastic speakers. They do everything I need them to do.

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post #274 of 1003 Old 03-23-2012, 05:20 AM - Thread Starter
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TBH, I am too tired to worry or care about the following issue. Back in May of 2011, I was having some issues. Prior to that I was also having the same issue but it corrected itself. Now, just a few days ago, I think it happened again but it is barely perceptible. My left speaker has dropped a little bit in it's output. Nothing major. It still sounds good and it is not enough to shift the sound stage at all. But it is there. When I run the test tones, I can hear that the left is just a bit lower then the right. I did not change anything so I don't know why that would happen. This happened before and after a while, like I said before, it self corrected. The level is probably only 1 db or 1.5 db lower. But I really don't care anymore. I am to tired of chasing things I can't figure out. Either one of three things will happen next. It will get even lower, it will get louder, or it will go back to normal. I am not changing cables or moving the speakers because I did that before and I determined that it was none of my equipment. So again, I am just going to live with it and see what happens. I do find it ineresting that it keeps happening on the same side. Maybe I have a vortex on that side of the room.

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post #275 of 1003 Old 03-23-2012, 03:17 PM
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Mike,

Sounds like those freggin Gremlins are back!

Seriously, do you have an SPL meter and verified that one side is actually playing lower vs the other side?
When you previously moved speakers, did it follow the speaker or was the sound still low on that side with a different speaker?
Have you tried different sources (different records, dvds, blurays, cds) and noticed the same issue on all sources?
Is there anyone in the house that is very familiar with the sound of your system that can confirm they are hearing the same thing as you?

I only ask because sometimes if I have allergies or sinus issues mixed with too much caffeine, my system will sound a lil corky to me too. My wife and my friend will say it sounds fine to them and they don't notice any issues. A few days later, everything is back to normal and I can watch the same movie again and it sounds much improved. On some of these rare off days, I'll notice that my TV in the other room sometimes sounds a little weird/off too. My wife told me that one of her co-workers claims that her ears bugs her when your blood pressure is up. I even notice now that my ears take longer to adjust when I get off an airplane- use to take mins and I was fine, now I sometimes need to pop some Advils after a few hours. My point is the system could be fine and may be its you that might be experiencing the issue (no offense, hope that did not come out wrong).
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post #276 of 1003 Old 03-23-2012, 04:25 PM - Thread Starter
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No offense at all. I have an SPL meter and I will run some tests tonight. Again, it is very subtle but I know it's there. There is no one who can really help me verify what I am hearing or not. I have noticed it with music mainly. In 2ch mode. Movies and TV are hard to check since sometimes there is just soundtrack coming out and then it is hard to tell. And I don't have a cold or allergies at this time. I will just see what happens tonight. If I can test with the SPL meter, I will post my results.

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post #277 of 1003 Old 03-23-2012, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
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I give up. I really do. So I tried to use the rat shack meter to test the levels, but the way it is calibrated, the test tones don't even register on the meter at all. They are too low. But that is how Craig set it up and I am sure his mic is better then the rat shack meter. Anyway, so I tried a few times with the internal test tones. Then I put on the Tool Kit disk. Those test tones were way below the threshold of my meter. Anyway, I ran through a few of those tests and then when back to the Integra test tones. When I did another test I could easily hear that the left was louder and matched the right. Then I played some music and it was a OK. This is what happened before. I had a problem, only that time I re ran the EQ and it fixed itself. This time I only had to run some test tones. So I think for now I am OK. I am at a loss though why this is happening and how it is correcting itself.

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post #278 of 1003 Old 03-23-2012, 06:06 PM
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That is wierd! You are doing everything I can think of to help determine the issue. Hopefully someone else can jump in and provide some other feedback.
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post #279 of 1003 Old 03-24-2012, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunga99 View Post

That is wierd! You are doing everything I can think of to help determine the issue. Hopefully someone else can jump in and provide some other feedback.

I have just decided that my system is possessed. Simple and easy to live with. I can't think of anything else that it could be. So I will just live with it. I am too tired to try and really think about. But like I said before, way back when it first happened, I re did Audessy myself. Those are sort of like test tones. After that it was fine, until it was not. So I don't get it. Hoppefully, it won't happen again. If it does, I am going to try the test tone trick again. Now I have played anything yet today so for all I know, it went back down again. We shall see. Thanks for the thoughts though.

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post #280 of 1003 Old 03-29-2012, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Minor update. I finally got the Butt Kicker amp a few days ago. It was very hard finding one and I had to wait at least a month to get it. I really don't like doing things like that but it seemed like the best one for my needs. So I am all set. I have the amp and the three motion isolators. Craig has the other part so he will bring that with him. If all goes as planned, next Tues I will have a Crowson system installed on my main chair. Can't wait.

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post #281 of 1003 Old 04-04-2012, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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OK. This will be real quick because I really have not run it through its paces. Last night Craig came over to install the Crowson setup on one of my chairs. After we raided my box O cables and the tool box in the garage, for screws, washers, and nuts, we were set to go. The looking for the extra parts we needed took longer then the install itself. After it was done we just threw in Star Trek. To say my mouth hit the floor is an understatement. The feeling I was getting was incredibly cool. Again, not that the SubMersive can't shake the room, but this just bumped everything up a notch. I need to watch some movies but so far this is a great upgrade for me. More to follow...

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post #282 of 1003 Old 04-04-2012, 02:32 PM
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^^^

Oh yeah Mike,...exciting stuff,...details man, details.


All this actuator stuff has got me so interested, I've been tossing it around since Craig initially introduced me to it via a forum contribution.

So Mike, when you can, elaborate...we're all ears (and in this case,...butts).



Best of luck

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post #283 of 1003 Old 04-05-2012, 04:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

^^^

Oh yeah Mike,...exciting stuff,...details man, details.


All this actuator stuff has got me so interested, I've been tossing it around since Craig initially introduced me to it via a forum contribution.

So Mike, when you can, elaborate...we're all ears (and in this case,...butts).



Best of luck

I will probably have time this weekend to run some of the favorites off the list. I think for me, the experience is quite different then what Craig experiences and what others may experience. Not that it does not work for other types of systems, but for me, it's more then likely a different feeling. Let's compare me and Craig. First Craig. He has a 4 seats which are linked together. He has seats on a riser. His chairs are quite heavy I would guess. His system is on a concrete floor and his chairs are on a riser. Now for me. I am shaking one chair with the same amp Craig is using to shake his entire couch. My chair is much lighter, on a second floor, and not on a riser. I am sure those differences really make an impact as to what I am experiencing.

As I noted before, the sensation is unlike anything I have felt before. It is more then just a coolness factor. When your body feels what is going on, other then just the sub shaking the room, it is quite different and really cool. No matter what sub you have, or how your system is setup, I think people need to check this out for themselves. I can't wait to really put it through it's paces.

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post #284 of 1003 Old 04-05-2012, 05:23 AM
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Well said...

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post #285 of 1003 Old 04-06-2012, 06:34 PM
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Very cool stuff Mike! I'm also interested in your opinion after you have some more time with them and wanna see some pics.

All of the components in my room are on a 15amp breaker and I never had any issue to date. I think I remember reading somewhere that your room was set up the same. Are you experiencing any issues now that you added the transducer and the amp?


Thx,
Claude
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post #286 of 1003 Old 04-07-2012, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Claude, more will follow but just a quick update. Last night I watched a good portion or Ronin on regular DVD. I really love that movie. I always thought the movie sounded fine. But it never really shook the room. The gunfire and explosions were loud but there was no weight behind them. Now, I can feel every gun shot and the my the explosions are much better because I can feel them much better then before.

This is the crazy part though. I have this anime show that I watch called Bleach. It is one of the best overall shows I have ever watched. But I was just downloading the files on line and burning them to DVD in what is called AVI format. There was never really any bass there before. I watched two episodes last night and I was shocked that I was feeling bass like I was. It made watching them so much better. And remember, These were downloaded files I was watching in Pro Logic II mode. I was impressed. But more to come as I watch some BR and other more updated DVD's. As to your other point, So far I have not had any issues at all with the adding of the butt kicker amp to my room. Even when Craig came over and were testing it, there were no issues. So I think I will be fine and if you choose to do this, you should fine as well. Like I said more to come...

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post #287 of 1003 Old 04-25-2012, 08:50 AM - Thread Starter
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OK. Another quick update with the possibility of a longer one to come. There was an "issue" with the Crowson. It was not anybodies "fault". I have the same Crowson that Craig has since I bought it from him . I also bought the same amp that he is using(also what he brought over that last time). So, I figured I could just set it up the same way with the gain on the Butt Kicker amp in the same place. Well, things did not work out too well. It was fine for a while. Then I decided to watch TRON. When Sam gets pulled into "the grid" I knew something happened. I heard a pop and that terrible burning smell. I fried the Crowson. They must have done something to the amp that upped the current. I mean I know Craig's amp is 1000 watts and mine is 1100 watts but I did not think it would make THAT much of a difference. But it did. So Craig worked with me to get it fixed.

I got it back yesterday. So I re-connected it and put it at 2 on the amp and played TRON. No problems. I then tried 3 with TRON and again, no problems, but it may have been calling a bit to much attention to itself. So I put it back to 2. I watched THOR. Now, I even though I liked the movie, I never thought of it as a bass monster. The Crowson did add that bit of tactile feel. It was cool. I am guessing that things like this should be used just to augment the low bass and not really call to much attention to it. So now, I will watch some movies I know have a lot of bass and see how it feels at 2. So After this weekend I will have another update.

BTW, have I said how much I like my system

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post #288 of 1003 Old 05-16-2012, 04:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Yea, it's just me again . So just a few more details. When I was watching movies at 2, for the most part I could hardly tell the Crowson was on. Besides TRON. So, I said, I might as well cross my fingers and go up to 2.5. I already knew that 3 was too hot. So I watch TRON again at 2.5. Well, I made it all the way through and 2.5 was FANTASTIC. It really did add more to the sensation of the movie. Now last night I watched another movie. I watched Unstoppable. I happen to really like that movie. Just with my system and the sub I thought it sounded great. The trains sounded real and it did "feel" really good. But, with the Crowson, it was a whole other level. It felt like you were IN the train, not just watching a train on TV. When 777(the villain train) was on the screen, it felt awesome. When it went flying by it really felt like it was right in front of me. You could really get a sense of the power. Also when 1206(the hero train) was on the screen, you could feel that as well. It just brought that extra level of realism to the experience. Like I said, it sounded and felt great with just the SubMersive, but with the Crowson and the SubMersive working together, it is a new experience.

Now, I also played some music last night. I played Diana Krall since I have not listened to that in a little bit. That also sounded really good. I think it did. TBH, I am trying to figure out if something is amiss with my speakers. It is hard for me to tell. The bass and mids sound fine, but sometimes the highs and vocals sound off a bit. It may just be me, so I am not willing to blame anything yet. Overall, music still sounds fantastic. I still get great volume and have a fantastic sound stage. Not to mention, low level stuff is much more defined now. Whether it is vocals or any instrument. I am just wondering if my system is so resolving now, that I am hearing the limits of my amps. But I am not going to worry about it. After I go over and check out Craig's system(need that invitation), I will see if Craig and maybe Dennis can come back over and give a listen and let me know what they think. I am just not sure. It's just that the highs with music and some vocals sound "off". But again. it may just be me. Anyway, I am still watching movies and listening to music because no matter what, they both still sound fantastic.

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post #289 of 1003 Old 05-16-2012, 10:15 AM
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Thats awesome Mike! A SubMersive HP, in a small, sealed, elevated and treated, room coupled with a transducer sounds like a whole lotta of fun!! Enjoy!

Maybe Craig can run a sweep and see if something is out of wack in the tweeter frequencies.
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post #290 of 1003 Old 05-16-2012, 10:38 AM
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Yes indeed, sounds really fun!

I'm tossing around the idea of implementing a tactile rig,...thinking....

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post #291 of 1003 Old 05-16-2012, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Again. I don't know if it is me, or if something is wrong. I can say that if I put ear up to each tweeter when music is playing, I can hear the same type of sound coming from each tweeter. I think vocals from the center sound OK. So again, I can't say for sure if something is amiss. But like I said, it still sounds very good and I am going to try not to dwell on it. I emailed Craig a few times just to say hello but received no reply. I guess he is busy.

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post #292 of 1003 Old 05-16-2012, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Yes indeed, sounds really fun!

I'm tossing around the idea of implementing a tactile rig,...thinking....

Don't think, just do it. You will really be glad that you did. I know I am.

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post #293 of 1003 Old 05-16-2012, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
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Yea, it's just me again . So just a few more details. When I was watching movies at 2, for the most part I could hardly tell the Crowson was on. Besides TRON. So, I said, I might as well cross my fingers and go up to 2.5. I already knew that 3 was too hot. So I watch TRON again at 2.5. Well, I made it all the way through and 2.5 was FANTASTIC. It really did add more to the sensation of the movie. Now last night I watched another movie. I watched Unstoppable. I happen to really like that movie. Just with my system and the sub I thought it sounded great. The trains sounded real and it did "feel" really good. But, with the Crowson, it was a whole other level. It felt like you were IN the train, not just watching a train on TV. When 777(the villain train) was on the screen, it felt awesome. When it went flying by it really felt like it was right in front of me. You could really get a sense of the power. Also when 1206(the hero train) was on the screen, you could feel that as well. It just brought that extra level of realism to the experience. Like I said, it sounded and felt great with just the SubMersive, but with the Crowson and the SubMersive working together, it is a new experience.

Mike,

I'm glad you're back to enjoying the Crowson, and your system. It seems you've found the best "level" for the amp. If you want a little "more", without turning up the Volume Control, you can play around with the "Hi Cut" frequency. We set it to 40 Hz, but you could try 50 or even 60. That'll give you a little more shake at higher frequencies.

Quote:
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Now, I also played some music last night. I played Diana Krall since I have not listened to that in a little bit. That also sounded really good. I think it did. TBH, I am trying to figure out if something is amiss with my speakers. It is hard for me to tell. The bass and mids sound fine, but sometimes the highs and vocals sound off a bit. It may just be me, so I am not willing to blame anything yet. Overall, music still sounds fantastic. I still get great volume and have a fantastic sound stage. Not to mention, low level stuff is much more defined now. Whether it is vocals or any instrument. I am just wondering if my system is so resolving now, that I am hearing the limits of my amps. But I am not going to worry about it. After I go over and check out Craig's system(need that invitation), I will see if Craig and maybe Dennis can come back over and give a listen and let me know what they think. I am just not sure. It's just that the highs with music and some vocals sound "off". But again. it may just be me. Anyway, I am still watching movies and listening to music because no matter what, they both still sound fantastic.

Remember when the tweeter blew in your CC? Does this sound at all like that? Is it just the L/R's, or does the CC sound "off" the same way?

Check your e-mail.

Craig

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post #294 of 1003 Old 05-17-2012, 04:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Mike,

I'm glad you're back to enjoying the Crowson, and your system. It seems you've found the best "level" for the amp. If you want a little "more", without turning up the Volume Control, you can play around with the "Hi Cut" frequency. We set it to 40 Hz, but you could try 50 or even 60. That'll give you a little more shake at higher frequencies.


Remember when the tweeter blew in your CC? Does this sound at all like that? Is it just the L/R's, or does the CC sound "off" the same way?

Check your e-mail.

Craig

The high cut is on the front of the amp right? I need to watch a few more movies and listen to some more music. For TV it's hard to tell. Like I said, it's kind of hard for me to verbalize. I think I have noticed it more with just the L/R speakers though. It seems like the music is sharper, with a bit more of an edge to it then I remember it having. I should be able to listen to some more music and watch some more movies between now and the end of the weekend so hopefully I can verbalize it better.

Let me try and put it this way. When I am listening to 2ch in bypass mode, so I only have the L/R playing, and I put my ears up to the tweeters, it does not sound smooth. It sounds a bit "distorted" or harsh or just not clean. When I put the music in a multi channel mode like 5ch stereo or one of the other ones, where the center is playing, the music and lyrics coming out of the center sound much smoother. Again, I know it's not scientific and I will try some more experiments like that to see what happens. When I do, and I have some more listening under my belt, I will report again.
Thanks for the reply to my email. I can't wait for a visit.

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post #295 of 1003 Old 05-17-2012, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

The high cut is on the front of the amp right?

Yup.

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Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

I need to watch a few more movies and listen to some more music. For TV it's hard to tell. Like I said, it's kind of hard for me to verbalize. I think I have noticed it more with just the L/R speakers though. It seems like the music is sharper, with a bit more of an edge to it then I remember it having. I should be able to listen to some more music and watch some more movies between now and the end of the weekend so hopefully I can verbalize it better.

Let me try and put it this way. When I am listening to 2ch in bypass mode, so I only have the L/R playing, and I put my ears up to the tweeters, it does not sound smooth. It sounds a bit "distorted" or harsh or just not clean. When I put the music in a multi channel mode like 5ch stereo or one of the other ones, where the center is playing, the music and lyrics coming out of the center sound much smoother. Again, I know it's not scientific and I will try some more experiments like that to see what happens. When I do, and I have some more listening under my belt, I will report again.
Thanks for the reply to my email. I can't wait for a visit.

When you listen in 2-channel, are you using "Stereo" or "Pure Audio"? Is Audyssey engaged?

Craig

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Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

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post #296 of 1003 Old 05-17-2012, 11:23 AM
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Don't think, just do it. You will really be glad that you did. I know I am.

I know you're happy, and I enjoy reading about it.

"just do it",....I can appreciate that However, I am undergoing significant changes throughout my entire rig. It all began with discussion/debate regarding acoustics. Then I began experimenting with various mains, and acoustic approaches to off axis energy. Despite my health, in the last year, I've picked up a new display, a Oppo95, built an IB sub (no easy feat while convalescing), I'm getting new mains, perhaps surrounds, balancing subs for the IB, and now I'm contemplating a tactile transducer system because of you and Craig, ... and looking at pre-pros. What I can, when I can.

What I enjoy reading, is similar to what I experience upon implementing system changes; increased music listening/exploring one's music collection. That's how all this began...

Thanks Mike

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post #297 of 1003 Old 05-17-2012, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
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I got you. While I REALLY like what they do for my system, honestly on a scale of things to do, I would probably put them near the end of the list. I was quite happy before. I could have happily lived without even knowing about them. But, that was not meant to be. I would say work on the other aspects of your system first. Get the system the way you want it. Then, if you add a transducer system, it will just push your system over the top.

It does sound like you are doing a complete over hall of your system. An IB sub setup is something I have never heard but I know that people who have them say they never will go back. I have also seen some videos of IB sub systems that made my jaw drop. I hope you start your own thread because I would really like to see that IB and find out what video and audio system you settled on. BTW, as I have always said, I have no problem spending the money of other people . So you will have an IB sub and "balancing" subs. OK, is that the rational you are using ? Balancing. I like that. Good luck and I hope your health is not too bad.

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post #298 of 1003 Old 05-17-2012, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
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When you listen in 2-channel, are you using "Stereo" or "Pure Audio"? Is Audyssey engaged?

Craig

Sometimes both but I would say over 80% is "Pure Audio". No sub or Audyssey at all. Like I said, I will do some more critical listening and see what happens.

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post #299 of 1003 Old 05-17-2012, 12:54 PM
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So you will have an IB sub and "balancing" subs. OK, is that the rational you are using ?

Balancing subs; as in a multi-sub setup, acoustically balancing out modal issues. I initially started out pursuing a multiple manifold IB system, but I barely could physically finish the one. The attic crawl was distant, plus all the other logistical elements of working up in the attic. So clearly, multiple small sealed seamed to make the most sense to round out the project.


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Good luck and I hope your health is not too bad.

Thanks Mike, I do appreciate it. Spending more and more time exploring all things audio certainly helps! I'm obsessive about reading, I have a lot of Dr's appts, etc, so I always have either Gedde's, or Toole's book, or printed pdf docs of various topics, ie acoustics etc. Every chance I get, I'm reading something.


Good luck with your speaker issue/non issue

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post #300 of 1003 Old 05-17-2012, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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I am a small fry when it comes to acoustical "knowledge". I just know what I like when I hear it. As far as my speakers go, I hope to have an idea one way or the other on my own. If I keep on hearing something, but I can't nail it down, hopefully I can get Craig over to check it out. I am not bellow using bribery of lunch for that .

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