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post #901 of 1070 Old 04-28-2014, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

All right, I am thinking about a RAID solution again but I getting all confused on what I should look at. I looked at Buffalo but I am not sure about their track record. Then someone mentioned Qnap. It seems good but more expensive then what I was previously thinking about getting. Qnap was recommended to be by someone I trust who is in the computer field so I am assuming their stuff is good. I am basically just looking for a storage system that I could connect to my server and have it configured it a RAID 5 setup. Can that be done with 4 drives? That seems to be the most "affordable" one if I go the Qnap route.
http://www.qnapworks.com/TS-469L.asp
If anybody in here has any thoughts, I would be grateful to hear them. Here is the other one
http://www.pc-pitstop.com/das/ds-sat05ue.asp
I guess because it seems to be a no name one from that site is why it is not as highly recommended.
New Egg and BH have the Qnap one
They both list it for $569. Then I need to add the HD since that is just the box.
This is what is recommended
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1001306-REG/western_digital_4tb_wd_red_sata.html
So when you add all that up, it is cheaper then buying it directly from Qnap but I admit, I am nervous about putting in all the drives my self. I would appreciate any feed back.
One more thing, it looks like the Qnap is running Linux but it also says:
Network Client Platform
Windows XP/ Vista/ Windows 7/8, Windows Server 2003/R2, 2008/R2, 2012, Mac OS X, Linux, UNIX
Since I am running Windows 7, I can assume it will work with server?

Mike, I've been in IT for over 15 years so I thought I'd respond with my thoughts.

You mention directly connecting the storage to your server. If that's the case, your decision is a little easier since you can rule out what are called NAS (Network Attached Storage) units.

Do you know the specifications of your server, in terms of available ports for an external connection? You will likely have USB ports, but it would help to know if they are USB2.0 or USB3.0. USB3.0 offers a faster connection.

That being said, you need to determine how much storage you need/want. A solution like this from Buffalo would work, but you are limited to 4GB. Keep in mind, that what I linked to is only a 2 drive setup. Buffalo has other models with higher capacity. The key thing here is that the unit comes with the hard drives, and you would have to go directly to Buffalo for a replacement drive should one fail. This is one of the reasons the cost for such a unit is lower than purchasing a chassis and separate drives.

Moving on, we get to units like the Qnap you mention in your post. This is the direction I would take. You have more flexibility in terms of the amount of storage you get, based on the size of the drives you use. In addition, you are not locked into the vendor should a drive fail. You can simply replace it with any drive of the same capacity. Aside from Qnap, Drobo is another popular suggestion. Here's a listing of some of what Drobo offers. The BH listing offer solutions that include the chassis and drives. LaCie also makes some very nice external drive chassis. Of course, going this route is going to cost a bit more but you have the most flexibility and expand-ability.

Since these drive chassis are USB3.0, they should easily integrate with your Windows 7 based server. In addition, they all basically come with some type of rail that you attach to the hard drives so you can easily slide them into the chassis. You should have no issues getting the drives installed. Once the drive chassis is attached to your server, you will most likely need to access some type of configuration setup (via a web page, cd, etc.) to setup and configure the drive array.

In summary, it all comes down to how much storage you need and how much you'd like to spend.

I hope this reply helps. Fell free to PM me or respond back here should you need some more info on anything and I'll do my best to help out.

One last thing that I just remembered, RAID is not a solution for lost data/media. Meaning, you should always have a backup of whatever is stored on the drive array. Whether it's physical media like DVDs and CDs or even a backup to another external hard drive that is stored elsewhere, you should never fully rely on RAID alone.
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post #902 of 1070 Old 04-28-2014, 06:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for that reply dharel.
Here is a link to my server
http://www.baetisaudio.com/Baetis_HT.php#features

Here are the USB specs
USB 2.0/1.1 Ports (4 in total; 2 more in front) 4 in the back. One the front is being used for a dongle so I can get wireless to the server.
USB 3.0 Ports (2 in total) in back. So I really have a total of 4 USB connections that I can use for storage since as I said, one is being used for the dongle. One in the back is being used for a small drive for my music.
As far as performance goes, I am sure I am using some USB 2.0 connections and movies seem fine to me.
I found an affordable Qnap here
http://eaegis.com/collections/qnap-ts-469-pro/products/qnap-ts-469-pro-12tb-4x3tb-wd-red
I guess I want to know if that would meet my need for storing movies and is it hard to setup. I mean right now, as I said I am only using individual 4TB drives. On each drive I have a folder for movies and a folder for TV shows. I then have Jriver look in the right folder. Will I be able to do the same thing with the RAID? I mean, how would it "look" in my windows environment? Will it see it as one drive and allow me to make one folder for movies and another one for TV shows and then just point Jriver to that drive as well? I also looked at Lacie, but to be honest, I was not sure which one to get. I mean all I want is a basic RAID 5 setup.
Thanks again for your help and any other info would be greatly appreciated.

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post #903 of 1070 Old 04-28-2014, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

Thanks for that reply dharel.
Here is a link to my server
http://www.baetisaudio.com/Baetis_HT.php#features

Here are the USB specs
USB 2.0/1.1 Ports (4 in total; 2 more in front) 4 in the back. One the front is being used for a dongle so I can get wireless to the server.
USB 3.0 Ports (2 in total) in back. So I really have a total of 4 USB connections that I can use for storage since as I said, one is being used for the dongle. One in the back is being used for a small drive for my music.
As far as performance goes, I am sure I am using some USB 2.0 connections and movies seem fine to me.
I found an affordable Qnap here
http://eaegis.com/collections/qnap-ts-469-pro/products/qnap-ts-469-pro-12tb-4x3tb-wd-red
I guess I want to know if that would meet my need for storing movies and is it hard to setup. I mean right now, as I said I am only using individual 4TB drives. On each drive I have a folder for movies and a folder for TV shows. I then have Jriver look in the right folder. Will I be able to do the same thing with the RAID? I mean, how would it "look" in my windows environment? Will it see it as one drive and allow me to make one folder for movies and another one for TV shows and then just point Jriver to that drive as well? I also looked at Lacie, but to be honest, I was not sure which one to get. I mean all I want is a basic RAID 5 setup.
Thanks again for your help and any other info would be greatly appreciated.

Your server setup should be fine. Since you have the USB 3.0 ports, you should take advantage of those.

The QNAP setup you link to would be a perfect setup for you, as long as you don't mind the cost. In terms of setup, your server should see the QNAP chassis as one large drive. You can then segment the drive into folders as you describe.


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post #904 of 1070 Old 04-28-2014, 09:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dharel View Post

Your server setup should be fine. Since you have the USB 3.0 ports, you should take advantage of those.

The QNAP setup you link to would be a perfect setup for you, as long as you don't mind the cost. In terms of setup, your server should see the QNAP chassis as one large drive. You can then segment the drive into folders as you describe.
Thanks. TBH, I am not a do it your self kind of guy. I was reading in another thread where someone was using something called FlexRaid and had 50TB of storage on it. I don't know anything about that or even where to begin to try and do that myself. I don't mind spending the money for convenience. I know a lot of people do but I don't. So if I get that one from that site, in RAID 5 configuration, I would get 6TB of unique media and 6TB to back that storage up.
They also have for a bit more this, which I did not see before.
http://eaegis.com/collections/qnap-ts-469-pro/products/qnap-ts-469-pro-16tb-4x4tb-wd-red
It's only about $200 more but it will give me 8TB of storage instead of just 6TB. That may be worth it. Then you start getting above $2,000 and that may be pushing it. Thanks again. The one with the 4tb drives should act just like the one with the 3TB drives right? That may be the one. It seems like it's a good brand, and it looks like these are the replacement drives. I think think these are the replacement drives
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1001306-REG/western_digital_4tb_wd_red_sata.html
I am sure if I do decide on the 3TB version I can find them easy enough as well.
Thanks again and feel free to add anything else you would like. This has been very helpful smile.gif.

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post #905 of 1070 Old 04-28-2014, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

Thanks. TBH, I am not a do it your self kind of guy. I was reading in another thread where someone was using something called FlexRaid and had 50TB of storage on it. I don't know anything about that or even where to begin to try and do that myself. I don't mind spending the money for convenience. I know a lot of people do but I don't. So if I get that one from that site, in RAID 5 configuration, I would get 6TB of unique media and 6TB to back that storage up.
They also have for a bit more this, which I did not see before.
http://eaegis.com/collections/qnap-ts-469-pro/products/qnap-ts-469-pro-16tb-4x4tb-wd-red
It's only about $200 more but it will give me 8TB of storage instead of just 6TB. That may be worth it. Then you start getting above $2,000 and that may be pushing it. Thanks again. The one with the 4tb drives should act just like the one with the 3TB drives right? That may be the one. It seems like it's a good brand, and it looks like these are the replacement drives. I think think these are the replacement drives
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1001306-REG/western_digital_4tb_wd_red_sata.html
I am sure if I do decide on the 3TB version I can find them easy enough as well.
Thanks again and feel free to add anything else you would like. This has been very helpful smile.gif.

No worries, and my pleasure to help.

The last QNAP chassis you refer to is a NAS (Network Attached Storage) device. Rather than connect directly to your server, it connects to your network and you tell your server to access it's folders over your network (LAN). You can go that route if you wish. It will take a little bit more to get setup, but it isn't difficult.

FlexRaid allows you to use an old PC, load it up with drives and essentially create a homemade drive chassis. Again, not difficult, but more for a do it yourselfer.

You are looking at drive chassis that are bundled with the drive to ease purchase, which is absolutely fine. Keep in mind that with any of these chassis, you can use any drives you wish. So if a drive fails, and you can't find the exact replacement, you can use another drive as long as it is the same size or higher.

Lastly, check out this quick article on RAID. It'll help clarify things a bit.

You're on the right track. It's now just a matter of determining how much storage you need and what you wish to spend.


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post #906 of 1070 Old 04-28-2014, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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"The last QNAP chassis you refer to is a NAS (Network Attached Storage) device. Rather than connect directly to your server, it connects to your network and you tell your server to access it's folders over your network (LAN). You can go that route if you wish. It will take a little bit more to get setup, but it isn't difficult."
So I don't confuse myself redface.gif, which one could I connect directly to my server? Would the 3TB one work? Because that also says NAS but I think that's the one you said would be perfect for what I need.

Also,
"One last thing that I just remembered, RAID is not a solution for lost data/media. Meaning, you should always have a backup of whatever is stored on the drive array. Whether it's physical media like DVDs and CDs or even a backup to another external hard drive that is stored elsewhere, you should never fully rely on RAID alone."
So now I need a backup of my backup? I thought thr RAID would do that. I would put all my media on the RAID, then if a drive in the RAID went bad, I could just replace it and be good to go. This is why I was concerned about going this way. It just seems to get more confusing. It's not you. You are explaining it very well. It's me and my trying to understand how this all works.
I mean, I could just keep on doing what I am doing. That is I have two main drives and two backup drives. When I put a movie on one drive, I put a backup copy on the other drive. The downside is when a drive goes bad(like it did a few weeks ago), I have to manually copy everything over myself. I figured a RAID would be easier if I lost a drive. Just replace it and it rebuilds what was lost automatically. I thought if I got a RAID, it would make my life easier and give me potentially more space per USB port that I have. Sorry if it seems like this stuff is basic and sorry if you feel you keep repeating yourself.
If you can point out which one is right for what I want to do that would be great.
The other one that I am 99% sure will work for me is this
http://www.pc-pitstop.com/das/ds-sat05ue.asp
I could fill it up with all 4TB drives RAID 5 and be set. But I don't know about the quality. That's why I was looking at QNAP stuff. As long as it fit my needs.

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post #907 of 1070 Old 04-28-2014, 04:21 PM
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I completely missed that spec on the one QNAP chassis. Qnap is all NAS, meaning the drive chassis connects to your network rather than directly to your server. QNAP does not offer USB, direct connected drive chassis.

My recommendation would then be to go with something from Drobo, like this. Here is the spec on the Drobo site itself.

I know this seems confusing, and I apologize for the misdirection regarding those QNAP units. I know plenty of people that use Drobo storage chassis and they all sing high praise for them. The B&H link I provided, is a fantastic deal for the chassis and drives. I've purchased many items from B&H, so there should be no concern or worry there.

I'm an IT guy, so the notion that RAID is not a backup has been drilled into me for years. As such, I tend to always pass that bit of info along. Having RAID storage often provides a false sense of security. Yes, if one drive fails you can easily swap it out and continue humming along. But, what happens if more than 1 drive should fail or the drive chassis itself has an issue causing data loss? It may seem like that would be a rare occurrence, but it can and does happen when you least expect it. Ask me how I know.

In your situation, you may be fine with having your server and storage as a copy of your physical discs. In this sense, your physical DVD and Bluray media is your backup. Essentially, what I'm suggesting is that you always have a way of restoring what is on your server/storage.


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post #908 of 1070 Old 04-29-2014, 05:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dharel View Post

I completely missed that spec on the one QNAP chassis. Qnap is all NAS, meaning the drive chassis connects to your network rather than directly to your server. QNAP does not offer USB, direct connected drive chassis.

My recommendation would then be to go with something from Drobo, like this. Here is the spec on the Drobo site itself.

I know this seems confusing, and I apologize for the misdirection regarding those QNAP units. I know plenty of people that use Drobo storage chassis and they all sing high praise for them. The B&H link I provided, is a fantastic deal for the chassis and drives. I've purchased many items from B&H, so there should be no concern or worry there.

I'm an IT guy, so the notion that RAID is not a backup has been drilled into me for years. As such, I tend to always pass that bit of info along. Having RAID storage often provides a false sense of security. Yes, if one drive fails you can easily swap it out and continue humming along. But, what happens if more than 1 drive should fail or the drive chassis itself has an issue causing data loss? It may seem like that would be a rare occurrence, but it can and does happen when you least expect it. Ask me how I know.

In your situation, you may be fine with having your server and storage as a copy of your physical discs. In this sense, your physical DVD and Bluray media is your backup. Essentially, what I'm suggesting is that you always have a way of restoring what is on your server/storage.
Thanks. I work in IT as well but not in hardware at all. Mainly testing applications. I did know that if I lost 2 drives I would be toast. But right now I am just using individual drives and doing manual copies so I figured RAID would just be a cleaner way of doing it. This stuff is beyond me which is why I do appreciate your help smile.gif. Besides doing what I am doing know, which is just individual drives, or a RAID, is there another option I am missing that is better? My current method does work because I did have a drive that went bad so now I am just copying everything from my backup to the new main drive. It's taken about 2-3 weeks but I am dealing with it. Just so I have choices, is there something besides that Drobo that you know of that would work for me? I mean, that one from the Pit Stop website is the only other one I know about. Do companies like Seagate or WD have RAID systems like I am looking for. Others that I found were LaCie and G-Technology. I mean, I need something for primary playback as well as backup. Someone told me the Drobo was great for backup but a somewhat slow for playback.

I also did a quick search on Drobo and there were people that had some big complaints about them, So I guess I have more research to do. A lot of what I am finding are NAS systems that say that they can be setup in a RAID style but I can't use that can I. Man I just wish there was an easy, stable(I know that's asking a lot) plug and play system. Someone else said that it's really not that hard to just get your own case and own drives and do it yourself, but I am not sure about that. I guess I have more decisions to make.
Thanks

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post #909 of 1070 Old 04-29-2014, 05:58 AM - Thread Starter
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P.S
Please help me understand why the 469 won't won't work. I know it says NAS but it also says it has a USB 3.0 connection.
QNAP 4-Bay NAS, SATA 3Gbps, USB 3.0(but that USB might only be able to connected to other storage devices?) But...

Also, these are from two emails from them
"Hi Michael,
All the QNAP NAS with 4 bays or more support RAID 5.
-TS-420, TS-421, TS-469L, TS-469 PRO, TS-470, and TS-470 PRO"
and
"Hi Michael,
Thanks for contacting us. The 469 isn't hard to setup, but some knowledge of networking principles will certainly help you get through the wizard. You can use this as RAID 5. Your windows server won't have an issue, you can configure this for NTFS. How much storage are you looking for?"

So that means that I still can't use that?
Thanks again.

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post #910 of 1070 Old 04-29-2014, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Again, I hate doing something like 3 posts in a row but oh well. These are the ones that seem to meet my needs.
http://www.pc-pitstop.com/das/ds-sat05ue.asp
http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?id=10601
http://www.g-technology.com/products/g-speed-q
http://store.buffalotech.com/store/bufftech/en_US/pd/productID.279008900/quantity.1

I never knew it would be this hard to find. Either the stuff I find may not be that reliable, or it's a NAS and not a RAID or some other issues. I mean, all I want is a RAID system that can be connected to my server via USB cable.
Plus I don't know the quality of all of those. Man this is more work then I planned on. I need to know it will work as I want it to before I make the leap.

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post #911 of 1070 Old 04-29-2014, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

P.S
Please help me understand why the 469 won't won't work. I know it says NAS but it also says it has a USB 3.0 connection.
QNAP 4-Bay NAS, SATA 3Gbps, USB 3.0(but that USB might only be able to connected to other storage devices? But...

Also, these are from two emails from them
"Hi Michael,
All the QNAP NAS with 4 bays or more support RAID 5.
-TS-420, TS-421, TS-469L, TS-469 PRO, TS-470, and TS-470 PRO"
and
"Hi Michael,
Thanks for contacting us. The 469 isn't hard to setup, but some knowledge of networking principles will certainly help you get through the wizard. You can use this as RAID 5. Your windows server won't have an issue, you can configure this for NTFS. How much storage are you looking for?"

So that means that I still can't use that?
Thanks again.

The USB 3.0 connection on the back of the 469 chassis is to connect other external drives to it. It doesn't connect directly to a PC or server.

Let's take a step back for a moment and rethink the end result.

We know that you are looking to expand capacity and would like something with RAID capability, to give you more flexibility than simply plugging in external drives.

We know that there are several different types of drive chassis that meet you requirements. The 2 most common are NAS (Network Attached Storage) and DAS (Direct Attached Storage). An example of a DAS chassis is the Drobo I referenced in an earlier post. A NAS device would be something like the QNAP chassis you have been looking at.

Now, the question to be asked is "which is easier to setup and work with?" Both types can work with your server setup. A NAS will allow you to load up your drives and access its storage over your home network. You would need an open network port, somewhere on your home network to connect the NAS to. You would then follow the NAS's directions for setup and configuration. Once done, you would then tell your server to access the folders you setup on the NAS. Going this route, you need to have a basic understanding of networks and accessing folders/files over a network. This isn't complicated, but if you haven't done it before, it can get a bit frustrating.

Moving on, we have the DAS type of device. Obviously, these connect directly to your server. The most common connection nowadays is USB 3.0. With a DAS chassis, you simply install the drives and plug in both ends of the USB cable. One to the server, the other to the DAS. Some DAS devices have the drives pre-installed. Buffalo makes several like that. You may then need to configure the storage on the DAS. How to do so, depends on the device and instructions should be provided with it or online. The benefit here is that you don't have to worry about setting up anything on your network. It should really be plug&play.

All that being said, NAS and DAS will both provide you with RAID and expanded capacity. Don't worry about the physical drive installation with either. That's relatively easy. Your choice as to which to use, comes down to your comfort level on the different setups.

My take is that you should continue to look for a DAS chassis that meets your storage needs. The Drobo units are nice, as they offer higher capacity with more drives. You can also look at devices from Buffalo Tech , which can give you up to 16TB of storage. LaCie also makes some nice DAS storage devices.

Once again, I apologize if this seems overwhelming. I'm doing my best to scale back the techno-speak. Keep the questions coming and I'll continue to do my best to point you in the right direction.
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post #912 of 1070 Old 04-29-2014, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

Again, I hate doing something like 3 posts in a row but oh well. These are the ones that seem to meet my needs.
http://www.pc-pitstop.com/das/ds-sat05ue.asp
http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?id=10601
http://www.g-technology.com/products/g-speed-q
http://store.buffalotech.com/store/bufftech/en_US/pd/productID.279008900/quantity.1

I never knew it would be this hard to find. Either the stuff I find may not be that reliable, or it's a NAS and not a RAID or some other issues. I mean, all I want is a RAID system that can be connected to my server via USB cable.
Plus I don't know the quality of all of those. Man this is more work then I planned on. I need to know it will work as I want it to before I make the leap.

Any of these would work perfectly.

Edit - The last Buffalo Tech unit is a NAS. Check out the Buffalo Tech DAS I linked to in my post above.


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post #913 of 1070 Old 04-29-2014, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for baby stepping me tongue.gif. So far I have followed you pretty good(to my own surprise). I have never heard of a DAS though. That is a new acronym for me. I appreciate you trying to scale back the techno speak. A fault of mine is that I really really really hate being frustrated about something. If something doesn't work or I can't figure it out, it really annoys me. But you are right when you say I am looking for something to connect to my server directly. I guess that means a DAS. And you don't have to apologize at all. It has been a good, yet difficult learning experience.

That's great that any of those would work fine. I just wonder which one is the most reliable. Again, I really can't thank you enough for all your help. Keep it coming of you want. I will find a way to make it through smile.gif.
And at least for the Lacie and PC pit stop I know which drives I can use. For the other two, they really don't specify what replacement drives I need to get.
"Edit - The last Buffalo Tech unit is a NAS. Check out the Buffalo Tech DAS I linked to in my post above."
Got it. Thanks

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post #914 of 1070 Old 04-29-2014, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

And at least for the Lacie and PC pit stop I know which drives I can use. For the other two, they really don't specify what replacement drives I need to get.

As I said earlier, it's my pleasure to help. I've been doing this stuff for years, and enjoy helping others. I'd hate to see anyone make an investment in a product that doesn't work out in the long run.

The LaCie and PC Pit Stop units allow you to use whatever compatible drives you choose. You'd have to check the specifications for the largest drive/drive combination those units will support. The nice thing here (as you've already noticed) is that if a drive fails and you can't find the exact replacement, any similar drive of the same size or larger can be used.

For the Buffalo and G-Tech units, you have to go back to them for drive replacements. You can't simply use any drive you'd like. It also looks like those 2 units come with the drives already pre-installed. That should make installation a bit easier.

I've used Buffalo Tech and LaCie products before. In fact, I have an older Bauffalo Tech NAS drive that's about 10 year sold still running at home. I don't know enough about the other 2, to offer any advice on them.

For your setup, I definitely reccomend the Buffalo Tech unit. Depending on your budget, you can get up to 16TB of storage.


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post #915 of 1070 Old 04-29-2014, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, I looked on the site. LaCie makes it easy to find the replacement drives but I can't find where the replacement drives are for the Buffalo. Can you post a link to the replacement drives?
EDIT on the BH site they also sell Buffalo replacement drives.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/886485-REG/Buffalo_hd_ql16tu3r5_16TB_DRIVSTATN_QUAD_4_BAY.html
And on that site they also tell you what drives you can replace them with. So I good either way

So this would be the Lacie one
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/905764-REG/LaCie_9000330u_16TB_4Big_Quadra_USB3_0.html

Almost the same price so it comes down to reliability and getting the drives. Now at least I have a direction and I can be more focused.
So now it's which one. HMMM. Thanks again for guiding me through the maze smile.gif. I try and help people when I can and I do appreciate you sharing what you know.

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post #916 of 1070 Old 04-30-2014, 10:38 AM
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From Buffalo Tech:

Can I replace the hard drives in my DriveStation Quad by myself?
During the warranty period, please contact Buffalo Americas and we will replace any defective drives for you. The drives are easily replaced by sliding them into their bays behind the removable front panel; no tools are required. If maintaining your warranty is no longer a concern, most 7200 rpm SATA drives from reputable manufacturers will work fine in the DriveStation Quad; a screwdriver will be required to remove the hard drive tray and place it on the new drive. Because of thermal and power issues, the use of drives with speeds higher than 7200 rpm is not recommended.

So it seems you have 2 options for drive replacement with these. I didn't know that, and it seems to be a change from what they've done in the past. This definitely give you the most flexibility.


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post #917 of 1070 Old 04-30-2014, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for that. During the warranty period, they will do it? I couldn't find out how long the warranty was for that particular model though. I will say that I am a little confused though. In the section where they say they do it, it is indicated that no tools are required. In the section where they say if they don't do it, they say a screwdriver is required confused.gif. I am missing something for sure. I guess the front panel comes of with no tools but the drives require a screwdriver. I would think about sending something as delicate as that through the mail too many times though. I have visions of UPS playing "catch the box" with my package. I am guessing though if I wanted to, even if it is the warrnty stage, I could still do it myself?
I think this is what they(B&H) recommend as a HD replacement
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/835056-REG/Hitachi_0S03355_4TB_SATA3_3_5_INTERNL.html

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post #918 of 1070 Old 04-30-2014, 02:09 PM
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Mike,

The disk drives don't plug directly into the chassis. They have to be in special "carriers" which slide into the chassis. The carrier also provides support for the disk and proper air-flow around it.

If you get replacement drives from them, the new drive comes in a new carrier which just slides in. You send them the broken drive still in its old carrier. That is one of the reasons their disks cost more than bare drives. (They've also pre-tested the disks.)

If you get a disk drive yourself, you have to take the broken disk drive out of its carrier and put the new disk into that old carrier. A screwdriver is needed to remove the broken disk and install the new disk into that carrier.
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post #919 of 1070 Old 05-01-2014, 04:56 AM - Thread Starter
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OK. I got you Selden.
So are you saying that if I got this from Buffalo
http://www.buffalotech.com/products/desktop-hard-drives/drivestation/drivestation-quad-1
and then got a replacement drive directly from them(which I can't find on their site BTW)
that it would come with it's own carrier? And then all I do is slide the bad one out and slide the good one in? I assume that
there is some kind of connection wire that has to be disconnected and then re-connected as well.
OR
This one which seems to a Raid as well
http://store.buffalotech.com/store/bufftech/en_US/pd/productID.279008900/quantity.1
It would work the same way? I just can't see, to find the replacement drives on their site

With Lacie it would work the same way?
I would get this from them
http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?id=10601
and the get this directly from them
http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?id=10314
That it would come with it's own carrier and all I do is slide the bad one out and the good one in. Again, are there any wires that would need to
be connected?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

OK. I got you Selden.
So are you saying that if I got this from Buffalo
http://www.buffalotech.com/products/desktop-hard-drives/drivestation/drivestation-quad-1
and then got a replacement drive directly from them(which I can't find on their site BTW)
that it would come with it's own carrier? And then all I do is slide the bad one out and slide the good one in? I assume that
there is some kind of connection wire that has to be disconnected and then re-connected as well.
OR
This one which seems to a Raid as well
http://store.buffalotech.com/store/bufftech/en_US/pd/productID.279008900/quantity.1
It would work the same way? I just can't see, to find the replacement drives on their site

With Lacie it would work the same way?
I would get this from them
http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?id=10601
and the get this directly from them
http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?id=10314
That it would come with it's own carrier and all I do is slide the bad one out and the good one in. Again, are there any wires that would need to
be connected?
Thanks again guys for your help. It has been indispensable.
Mike, there are no 'wires' to connect. Each SATA drive has a SATA connector on the end. When the drive is mounted in the carrier/tray and slid into the box, you will feel the connector engage. A little push to overcome the resistance and you will feel the connector engage over a small distance of about 0.3" to 0.5".

BTW, here's an alternative
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B003YFHEAC/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1398945944&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40

I've been using the non-RAID version of the company's 4-drive Probox for the attached storage with my ISO capable Oppo BDP. The oldest drive is about 3 years old. I only use Seagate Momentum bare 2TB drives ($89-$115 depending on Amazon sales). The Oppo can't see drives larger than 2TB or I would've used 4TB drives. The Probox and drives have all been problem-free.

BTW, since the Oppo can see up to 8 individual drives, I also use a Stargate 4-bay docking station as it's much easier to swap drives out (discharge any static electricity from myself, pull out one drive, plug in a different one. All while the power is off of course). That's because I have more than 8 x 2TB drives filled. I keep the 4 drives with movies I rewatch often (or demo often like WOTW LOL) in the Probox and swap drives in the Stargate.

As for mounting the drives in the carrier/tray. The tray is simply a plastic frame that attaches to the bare drive with 4 screws (Philips head).


Max

P.S. Here's an option that is trayless. Just push the new bare drive in
http://www.amazon.com/USB3-0-eSATA-tray-less-hardware-enclosure/dp/B002QYECOI/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1398947675&sr=8-5&keywords=probox+raid
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OK Max
So changing the drives is a bit more simple then I thought. That other one looks interesting. The only problem is that I am space limited and that is why I am looking for something that can hold more space then just 2TB drives. I just don't have the space for too many more boxes. That is why the other ones look more appealing to me. But I guess I am right in what replacement drives I would need for each one?

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post #922 of 1070 Old 05-01-2014, 05:52 AM
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OK Max
So changing the drives is a bit more simple then I thought. That other one looks interesting. The only problem is that I am space limited and that is why I am looking for something that can hold more space then just 2TB drives. I just don't have the space for too many more boxes. That is why the other ones look more appealing to me. But I guess I am right in what replacement drives I would need for each one?

The ProRAID (and ProBox I'm using) support 4TB drives. Its the Oppo Blu Ray player that can't 'see' more than 2TB drives. If you're planning on using the RAID for NAS, I would absolutely go with 4TB.

BTW, I edited my post above to add a couple of things.

These are the bare drives I'm using
http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Desktop-3-5-Inch-Internal-ST4000DM000/dp/B00B99JU4S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1398948043&sr=8-1&keywords=seagate+4tb

4 of those 4TB drives and the ProRAID box would cost ~$800. $1300 for the trayless box + 5 x 4TB bare drives if you go with the other option I linked to in the post above.

I just get the 2TB ones since the Oppo can't read anything bigger. I'll be building a backup unit using this
http://www.amazon.com/Mediasonic-H82-SU3S2-ProBox-External-Enclosure/dp/B005GYDMYG/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1398948238&sr=8-4&keywords=probox+raid
with 8 x 4TB drives in it (eventually) to backup all my ISO movie filled hard drives. Yes, the actual BDs that are stored in a cool, dry, dark environment are the ultimate backups, but since it takes ~30 minutes to rip each BD to a drive and there are ~40+ HD ISO movies in each 2TB drive, it's a PITA if one of the drives fails and I have to individually re-rip everything (looking at 20+ hours to dig out all the BDs and re-rip each one).

The 8-drive Probox would only be used for backup purposes so it can be located elsewhere (and used rarely, only to backup newer drives as I add movies to my collection).


Max
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post #923 of 1070 Old 05-01-2014, 06:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Please forgive me if it seems like I am asking the same thing over and over again. It's probably my L.D kicking in tongue.gif. So, are you saying that as an alternative to what I am looking at I could get
This
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B003YFHEAC/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1398945944&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40
and
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005T3GRLY/ref=mw_dp_buyxgety_y

or this
http://www.amazon.com/USB3-0-eSATA-tray-less-hardware-enclosure/dp/B002QYECOI/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1398947675&sr=8-5&keywords=probox+raid
and this?
http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Desktop-3-5-Inch-Internal-ST4000DM000/dp/B00B99JU4S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1398948043&sr=8-1&keywords=seagate+4tb
With these, is it hard to use any software that comes with them? Out of all of them, since I am a really new guy to this AND if it's easier, I will pay, which do you think would be the easiest for someone like me.
(edit it seems like the second one is eSATA only) but comes with a converter to a USB 3.0 connection. I think my server has one eSATA inputs but maybe the other ones are better since they are USB through and through)

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post #924 of 1070 Old 05-01-2014, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

Please forgive me if it seems like I am asking the same thing over and over again. It's probably my L.D kicking in tongue.gif. So, are you saying that as an alternative to what I am looking at I could get
This
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B003YFHEAC/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1398945944&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40
and
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005T3GRLY/ref=mw_dp_buyxgety_y

or this
http://www.amazon.com/USB3-0-eSATA-tray-less-hardware-enclosure/dp/B002QYECOI/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1398947675&sr=8-5&keywords=probox+raid
and this?
http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Desktop-3-5-Inch-Internal-ST4000DM000/dp/B00B99JU4S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1398948043&sr=8-1&keywords=seagate+4tb
With these, is it hard to use any software that comes with them? Out of all of them, since I am a really new guy to this AND if it's easier, I will pay, which do you think would be the easiest for someone like me.
Do you have an idea of roughly how much capacity you need?

Since you'll be using this in a NAS RAID5 configuration, I actually would recommend these drives instead:
http://www.amazon.com/WD-Red-NAS-Hard-Drive/dp/B008JJLW4M/ref=cm_cr_dp_asin_lnk
They're built specifically for NAS and RAID configurations and include certain technologies (like TLER) that the Seagate drives I use don't have. These additions provide better security against bad disc sectors in the RAID array, and the Western Digital Red drives are only slightly more expensive than the Seagate drives I use.

For someone who's not too familiar with computers and computer tech, I would recommend this
http://www.amazon.com/USB3-0-eSATA-tray-less-hardware-enclosure/dp/B002QYECOI/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1398947675&sr=8-5&keywords=probox+raid

and 5 of these 4TB drives
http://www.amazon.com/WD-Red-NAS-Hard-Drive/dp/B008JJLW4M/ref=cm_cr_dp_asin_lnk

You can read the reviews for the eBOX trayless RAID option. One of the users is also a computer novice and had no problems setting it up. Basically, with the eBOX option, you simply take it out of the box. Read the manuals. Open the drive doors and slide the bare WD Red drives in, press the buttons on the front panel listed in the manual to set it for RAID5, connect it to your system with the USB3.0 cable and you're ready to go.


Max

P.S. The Probox solution can also use 4TB drives (but only 4 of them vs the eBOX which can hold 5 drives), and can also be setup for RAID5 easily. All you have to do is press the button on the Probox itself to setup for RAID5. Either option is quite easy to setup. With the Probox option, you attach the 'handles' for the bare drives with 2 Philips head screws (IIRC, they even provide a plastic screwdriver in the package with the screws so you don't even need a screwdriver). The thing is though, IMO, the more drives the better, because as I've said, I have over 16TB of just HD and SD movies and I'm only about halfway through ripping my BD collection, so between the 2, I'd go with the 5-drive. Granted, the prices are quite different for the RAID boxes alone, with the 4-drive Probox being ~$190 vs the 5-drive eBOX being $499.
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Do you have an idea of roughly how much capacity you need?

Max
smile.gif
A lot. I am almost done filling two 4TB drives as it is. I wanted my media server to be the ultimate machine for me so I wouldn't have to constantly get up for movies or mainly series. I also saw those other drives you linked to.
And those reviews do look promising. Also, the price is more affordable then the others I was looking at. What I don't know is if those drives are already formatted or if that gets done during the process of setting up the RAID.

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I wasn't sure how comfortable Mike would be adding rails or carriers to the drives on some of the other chassis he was considering. That's why I suggested the preloaded Buffalo Tech unit.

However, now that I've seen the eBox suggestion and read it's reviews, I think it would be an ideal setup.

Essentially it is plug and play. The description of how to set it up in djblumax1's last post is as easy as it gets.

In a RAID 5 configuration with 5 4TB drives, one gets 12TB of usable storage.


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post #927 of 1070 Old 05-01-2014, 07:51 AM - Thread Starter
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I wasn't sure how comfortable Mike would be adding rails or carriers to the drives on some of the other chassis he was considering. That's why I suggested the preloaded Buffalo Tech unit.

However, now that I've seen the eBox suggestion and read it's reviews, I think it would be an ideal setup.

Essentially it is plug and play. The description of how to set it up in djblumax1's last post is as easy as it gets.

In a RAID 5 configuration with 5 4TB drives, one gets 12TB of usable storage.
That would be ZERO comfort level. That's why I wanted something that was ready to go. I guess the eBox has some sort of software that you load on your server to help you configure and manage it? I think I like the eBox option better. I basically just plug in the drives(no screws) and that's it. At least that's what it sounds like.

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post #928 of 1070 Old 05-01-2014, 07:55 AM
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That would be ZERO comfort level. That's why I wanted something that was ready to go. I guess the eBox has some sort of software that you load on your server to help you configure and manage it? I think I like the eBox option better. I basically just plug in the drives(no screws) and that's it. At least that's what it sounds like.

Any one of these drive chassis should come with some type of software for setup.

Upon further review, this is the eBOX unit that actually supports USB3.0:

http://www.amazon.com/Thunderbolt-trayless-driverless-enclosure-technology/dp/B00AJWJMRG/ref=pd_cp_pc_1

As you can see, there is a price increase of $200 plus $16.99 for shipping as it's not sold directly by Amazon.

I have to revert back and stick by the recommendation to go with the Buffalo Tech unit. It will be as simple as ordering it and plugging it in. Buffalo Tech's technical support is quite good, and as I've mentioned their units are very reliable.


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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

That would be ZERO comfort level. That's why I wanted something that was ready to go. I guess the eBox has some sort of software that you load on your server to help you configure and manage it? I think I like the eBox option better. I basically just plug in the drives(no screws) and that's it. At least that's what it sounds like.

Any one of these drive chassis should come with some type of software for setup.

Upon further review, this is the eBOX unit that actually supports USB3.0:

http://www.amazon.com/Thunderbolt-trayless-driverless-enclosure-technology/dp/B00AJWJMRG/ref=pd_cp_pc_1

As you can see, there is a price increase of $200 plus $16.99 for shipping as it's not sold directly by Amazon.

I have to revert back and stick by the recommendation to go with the Buffalo Tech unit. It will be as simple as ordering it and plugging it in. Buffalo Tech's technical support is quite good, and as I've mentioned their units are very reliable.
The reason the model you're linking to costs $200 more is because it is Thunderbolt capable. Unless Mike wanted to use this for video editing with a Macbook Pro, it's unnecessary.


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post #930 of 1070 Old 05-01-2014, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
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I do like the idea of a simple plug and play the best.
I see this one
http://www.buffalotech.com/products/desktop-hard-drives/drivestation/drivestation-quad-1
or this one
http://store.buffalotech.com/store/bufftech/en_US/pd/productID.279008900/quantity.1
But again, I can't find what replacement drives I need.
And that's a tray one right?
I keep on going back to this as well
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/905764-REG/LaCie_9000330u_16TB_4Big_Quadra_USB3_0.html
It looks like the sell the replacement drives on the same site. I am assuming though those just slide out. They have to be unscrewed and screwed back in. That's
for both models I am guessing.

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