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post #1051 of 1070 Old 08-20-2014, 05:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for that great explanation Craig. It was very helpful. I was thinking of a 70in 2:35 screen to be honest with you. I think while it would look wide, the lack of height, when compared to a 16x9 screen would work in my favor. The only things that I watch that would not be 2:35 are TV shows like Deadwood. That is 1:77. But I could live with how that would look on the projector.

I assume that 1:77 is still some sort of wide screen aspect ratio. When I watch that, or 1:85 or standard 1:33 content on a 2:35 screen, that's when I would get the black bars on the side of the picture right? Are there any circumstances that would cause the "letter boxing" to appear like it does now on my TV? You know, top and bottom if I use a 2:35 screen? Now I would most likely use this for movies and barely use it for CATV.

I remember watching King Kong and LoTR on your screen. They looked really good. It was cool to have the entire screen filled up. Plus I do remember that Avatar had the black bars but on a screen your size, it was still very big and impressive.

Now as far as lowering the screen, Dennis must have seen my posts and he sent me an email. This is what he said:
"I saw your post about a projector/screen on AVS. It is totally possible to do a motorized AT screen in your size (I think you said 65" 2.35:1) through my screen company, Seymour AV. We program the drop to the perfect height for your room, and it would drop down right in front of your TV, then it will go back up with a touch of a button when you want to watch the smaller TV."

So that seems to me that it could be done. We would also have to figure out how to mount the projector and drop it below my fan. That would mean we would have to move my ceiling treatments forward a bit. I can't drop the ones on the back wall because that would leave zero space for my chairs. So that has to be looked into. But I would really love to do this. I know it's not a 170" 150" or 120" like you have, but I think a 70" would do me just fine . Your screen is awesome by the way and I can't imagine how big a room has to be to go much bigger then what you have. So now as you say I have to work on the FAF. We will work on that aspect in a little bit.

I don't want to get ahead of my self, but this could be really fun.

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post #1052 of 1070 Old 08-20-2014, 07:07 PM
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Thanks for that great explanation Craig. It was very helpful. I was thinking of a 70in 2:35 screen to be honest with you. I think while it would look wide, the lack of height, when compared to a 16x9 screen would work in my favor. The only things that I watch that would not be 2:35 are TV shows like Deadwood. That is 1:77. But I could live with how that would look on the projector.

I assume that 1:77 is still some sort of wide screen aspect ratio. When I watch that, or 1:85 or standard 1:33 content on a 2:35 screen, that's when I would get the black bars on the side of the picture right? Are there any circumstances that would cause the "letter boxing" to appear like it does now on my TV? You know, top and bottom if I use a 2:35 screen? Now I would most likely use this for movies and barely use it for CATV.
Mike,

I just want to clear something up... maybe you understand this and are just using the terminology incorrectly, but I just want to be sure you really are understanding this.

I've bolded and changed the color of all the "ratios" in your post. These are not correctly stated. You have placed a colon where you should be placing a decimal point, (a period.) There is no such thing as a "2:35" aspect ratio. The aspect ratio, (AR), is the ratio of width to height. A "2:35" AR would be 2 units wide for 35 units tall. IOW, a 2' wide screen would be 35' tall. Obviously, that's not what you're referring to. What you mean is a 2.35:1 AR, (that's 2 POINT 35 to 1.) That would be 2.35 units wide for every 1 unit tall. IOW a screen that is 1' tall would be 2.35' wide. A screen that is 10' tall would be 23.5 ' wide. When you use the projector calculators that I previously linked, and you select a 2.35:1 AR, the calculator automatically calculates screen sizes and they are always in a ratio of 2.35 units of width to 1 unit of height. For example, a 72" 2.35:1 screen is 66" wide and 28" tall. Divide 66 by 28 and you get... 2.35. So that 72" screen is 2.35 "units" wide for every 1 unit it is tall, (or it's 2.35:1.)

The same is true for 1.78:1. A screen that is 1.78:1 is 1.78 units wide for every 1 unit it is tall. However, a screen that is 1.78:1 is also a 16 x 9, (or 16:9) AR. (Divide 16 by 9 and you get 1.78.) So, if a screen is 1.78 units wide for every unit it is tall, that's the exact same as saying it is 16 units wide for every 9 units it is tall. If you go to the projector calculator and select a 16:9, 72" screen, you get dimensions of 63" wide by 35" tall. Divide 63 by 35 and you get... 1.78.

1.78:1, (or 16:9) is the standard aspect ratio for HDTV. All flat panel TVs are 1.78:1 in their "native" aspect ratio. All HDTV set top boxes are 1.78:1 AR's. BluRay is 1.78:1 or 16 x 9. Many of these devices can also do other AR's, such as 4:3, or 2.35:1, but they do those other AR's by either stretching the image or by adding "blanking", (black bars.)

As I said, you may have understood all this and were just using the terminology incorrectly, substituting the colon for the period. If that's the case, then all you need to do is to begin using the terminology correctly. However, if this sheds some new light on your understanding of this stuff, you may want to go back and re-read my post from last night. It may make more sense to you now.

Craig
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post #1053 of 1070 Old 08-21-2014, 04:51 AM - Thread Starter
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First off this made me smile "A "2:35" AR would be 2 units wide for 35 units tall. IOW, a 2' wide screen would be 35' tall. " That would be some screen. Yes, I knew what it meant, I just mistakenly mixed up placement the two punctuation. I knew there was a colon in there some place. I like the fact that 2.35:1(HA!) screen is not as tall a 1.78:1(double HA!!) screen. The difference between the two, for a 72" screen is pretty close in width. the 2.35 would be 66" wide. My current TV is 40" wide so the 2.35 screen is 50% wider. The 16x9 would be 63"wide. But the height is big difference. 28" compared to 35". Those seven inches are a lot I think in my room. So a 2.35 screen I think would look more at home in my small room.

With a setup like that, as you said, a 2.35:1 movie would take up the entire screen but everything else would have black bars. It seems like you are saying that some projectors can manipulate the movie or show to fill up the entire screen. Is that right? I know it would probably "distort" the image right? But I would still be curious as to what it would look like. Maybe because I would have a "small" screen it would not be that bad. Well, we will cross that bridge if we come to it.

Some BR are 1.78:1 but many are 2.35:1 or 2.40:1. As I listed before, it looks like a lot of my stuff is 2.35:1 or 2.40:1. So it makes sense to get that kind of screen and just deal with the other aspect ratios that are different. I have stuff with just about every aspect ratio. 1.33:1, 1.78:1, 1.85:1, 2.35:1 and 2.40:1. So some of those would have bigger black bars on the sides then the others, unless I try and "stretch" the image. I wonder how the 1.33 content would look on a screen like that. I am sure the others wouldn't look that bad but I am not sure of the 1.33.
Thanks Craig

P.S

I have another question only this one is audio. The majority of BR disks have some sort of "High Rez" audio. Either TRUHD, DTS-MA or LPCM. Now I do have one or two BR disks that don't have that choice. I bought RED. I happen to like it. It has action and my kind of humor. Now there were two versions but I did not know that when I bought it. The one I bought says it has an audio track that is Dolby Digital 5.1 48 kHz 640 kbps. My T3 is the same way. Is that a higher level of Dolby Digital than would be on a regular DVD? Because both disks still sound really good on my system. I was just curious.

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post #1054 of 1070 Old 08-21-2014, 06:47 AM - Thread Starter
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One more thing. It seems like in an early post it was indicated that the aspect ratio could be changed with the epson. But some users who posted reviews of the projector seemed to have different thoughts:
"Note - CON = Unit has limitation on trying to adjust aspect ratio to fit your screen. While the screen can adjust side to side, trying to shrink top and bottom does not work in HDMI mode much. If you use RGB Cables then you have more flexibility on shrinking and adjusting the image to your screen. I have a 160" screen and picture goes outside of my boarder . I had 3 AV Technicans tried to fit into my screen but were not able to get it all inside the screen even using technical support from Epson. Again, before you build or setup your screen, Call Epson first and tell them the size of your screen and they will be able to tell you how far to but projector back to fit your screen. I would suggest you setup the unit first and then build your screen around it. Also, Unit does NOT come with a mounting kit ."

"I have a 160" screen and picture goes outside of my boarder "

"The only complaint I have so far is that if doesn't let me adjust the aspect ratio when the input is HDMI. Some of my sources are not 9:16, maybe even 4:3 and the 5500 let me change the aspect ratio so people don't look fat. the 5030 locks me out from making corrections. Too bad, that takes off a point when watching those particular programs."

Now I know it has been said that I can watch my stuff with just a little adjustment. Are these issues I would have to worry about? Again, I just need to be sure. I can not afford a really expensive projector that may deal with these issues differently so I need to know for sure that the stuff I watch that is not 2.35:1 won't look like crap.

Edit: The Panny also says something about not being able to totally adjust the picture when using a HDMI signal. I just need to make sure that these work the way I need them to work.

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post #1055 of 1070 Old 08-21-2014, 08:44 AM
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If you want to do a 2.35:1 screen, forget the Epson. It doesn't have lens memory, so you would need to manually adjust the lens every time you wanted to change AR's. The Panny has lens memory, so with 1 button push on the remote, the AR changes automatically.

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post #1056 of 1070 Old 08-21-2014, 08:45 AM
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Edit: The Panny also says something about not being able to totally adjust the picture when using a HDMI signal. I just need to make sure that these work the way I need them to work.
Link please.

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post #1057 of 1070 Old 08-21-2014, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Link please.
http://www.audiogeneral.com/Panasoni...00u_manual.pdf
Page 62 of the manual. Zoom and V-Fit are not available using an HDMI signal. I don't know if those are ones I would be using.
But this video is pretty nice at explaining the "auto change" for the aspect ratios. You have to scroll down for the vid.
http://www.projectorpeople.com/Panas...rojector/27643
Maybe I am wrong about how we would use the Panny. But I think the Epson doesn't have those HDMI limitations.
P.S I saw your post about the epson after I read the one about wanting the link. I definitely want it automated so if that leaves the epson out, so be it.

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post #1058 of 1070 Old 08-21-2014, 12:38 PM
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I have another question only this one is audio. The majority of BR disks have some sort of "High Rez" audio. Either TRUHD, DTS-MA or LPCM. Now I do have one or two BR disks that don't have that choice. I bought RED. I happen to like it. It has action and my kind of humor. Now there were two versions but I did not know that when I bought it. The one I bought says it has an audio track that is Dolby Digital 5.1 48 kHz 640 kbps. My T3 is the same way. Is that a higher level of Dolby Digital than would be on a regular DVD? Because both disks still sound really good on my system. I was just curious.

Having an audio track that is Dolby Digital 5.1 48 kHz 640 kbps (i.e. using Dolby Digital instead of Dolby TrueHD) means that the disc contains what's called a "lossy" soundtrack. In other words, the movie's soundtrack was compressed using Dolby software which discards sounds that would be difficult to hear in order to cram as much as it could into a fixed bitrate recording. 640Kbps is quite high: it's 50% more than the highest data rate used by Dolby Digital audio tracks on DVDs. As a result, relatively little has to be discarded, and many people are unable to tell the difference between it and a lossless TrueHD audio track.
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post #1059 of 1070 Old 08-21-2014, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Selden

Is it more economical to do it that way? I will say that RED and Terminator 3 both sound really good even though they have that audio format instead of a TrueHD sound track. I guess I was not used to seeing just Dolby Digital or DTS displayed on my Integra while I am watching a BR movie. The only other format I have seen was LPCM tracks which I believe are Lossless. That says Multch when I am watching a movie with that audio format.

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post #1060 of 1070 Old 08-21-2014, 01:06 PM
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Thanks Selden

Is it more economical to do it that way?
Maybe. I dunno for sure. My guess is that they might be cheaper because less has to be recorded on the disc. (Supposedly disks which contain Dolby TrueHD audio tracks also have a "hidden" Dolby Digital track, too, so they can be played when an HDMI connection isn't available.)

How did you obtain the Red and T3 discs?

Another possibility is that the discs with DD tracks originally were intended for the rental market. Some rental BDs (like Netflix) contain only DD audio tracks although the corresponding purchased versions have lossless audio. Often the "extras" are omitted from rentals, too.

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I will say that RED and Terminator 3 both sound really good even though they have that audio format instead of a TrueHD sound track. I guess I was not used to seeing just Dolby Digital or DTS displayed on my Integra while I am watching a BR movie. The only other format I have seen was LPCM tracks which I believe are Lossless. That says Multch when I am watching a movie with that audio format.
Yup. LPCM is lossless. It's the data format used by the original movie soundtracks. The various Dolby and DTS encoders are used by the mixing houses to compress the LPCM files so they'll take up less space on the disc.

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post #1061 of 1070 Old 08-22-2014, 04:54 AM - Thread Starter
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I bought RED and T3 at FYE. When you go to this page
http://www.blu-raystats.com/Stats/St...A&pSize=50&p=1
and you search for RED, you will see two versions. One is a "special ed" that has a DTS-MA sound track and the "regular" one the I bought
that says Dolby Digital 5.1 48 kHz 640 kbps. That is the one I bought. T3 only has one version and it says Dolby Digital 5.1 48 kHz 640 kbps. So they are not rentals or any other version.
BTW, that site is really cool for looking up movies. You can search on so many parameters.
This is the main page
http://www.blu-raystats.com/index.php
But the previous link is great because it has all those filters on top. Or you can search for a specific movie by going to "searches". It has been useful to me for seeing what movies have what what audio.
P.S I never rent movies. If I like it enough, I just buy it.

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post #1062 of 1070 Old 08-22-2014, 08:06 AM
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Thanks for the info.

I have T3 but I simply can't remember if it's DVD or BD. I'll check this evening.

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post #1063 of 1070 Old 08-22-2014, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Like I mentioned. They both sound and look great. I really can't complain that much. The action is still powerful in these films. I guess I was just surprised that's all. I made the assumption that all BR would have TRUHD or DTS-MA as the audio. I did not even think that they would put other audio formats on there.

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post #1064 of 1070 Old 08-24-2014, 04:34 AM
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I just checked my collection of Teminator discs. I have BDs of all four of them. I was somewhat amused to discover that they all have different audio encodings for the primary (English) soundtracks.
T1: PCM 5.1
T2: Dolby Digital EX & DTS-HD MA 6.1
T3: DD 5.1
T4: DTS-HD MA 5.1

As you say, T3's audio is fine I wish I could say as much for the plot.

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post #1065 of 1070 Old 08-24-2014, 05:45 PM - Thread Starter
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I think I mentioned this before, but T3 is just one big action sequence in my mind. Good eye and ear candy. It's pretty interesting about the audio. I do find it somewhat amusing that in an industry that would seem to benefit from standards that there are so many audio and video variations out there.
As an example, There was an interview with someone from the video world on this site. He mentioned that many films have the black bars in the theater and the curtains covered them up. Well, I saw the movie Get On Up. During the coming attractions I noticed black bars on the top and bottom of the screen. But when the movie started there was no movement on the curtains and the picture took up the entire screen. I guess that means it's a 16x9 film. There are just too many things we as consumers have to take into consideration. Not a rant, just an observation.

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post #1066 of 1070 Old 08-25-2014, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
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I just want to add one more thing that bothers me and then I will be done. How come we have so much disparity in audio on disks. Take the "bad" disks, most recently Star Trek ITD. How come that turned out so bad. It had a lot of clipping and it seemed to be filtered. At least that's what people say and measurements seem to back this up. My question is why. How come these tracks aren't run through some analyzer before they go on the disk to check for clipping etc... I can't think it would be that hard. Why isn't there a standard for that. I know mixers like to do their own thing and I guess that's fine. But there should still be some sort of quality control before a track get's OK'ed for the disk. That's just my thought.
OK. Complaint over. Back to our regular scheduled program of whether I am getting a projector or not . Unless someone has an answer to my question.

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post #1067 of 1070 Old 08-25-2014, 04:04 PM
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Mike, there are no real standards for things like clipping because there are artistic choices for its utilization (eg. The jets on those big... things in Tron Legacy and Iron Man's repulsors).

Occasionally, it's also intentionally used to make things 'sound' louder because the harshness of hard clipping seems louder even if the actual SPLs are the same as a non-clipped signal.

Unfortunately, this also means that it can occur when it's not intended or desirable because someone wanted to 'crank it up' and different people have varying sensitivity to clipping.

Take the train crash from Super 8 for instance. I fell in the group that dislikes that scene because of the harshness and clipping coupled with the marked lack of ULF, but many folks happily proclaimed it an awesome demo.


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post #1068 of 1070 Old 08-25-2014, 07:00 PM - Thread Starter
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The train crash certainly is a good example. I also think the bus attack in Super 8 is another one where it is really loud. But I think like movies in the Bat Man trilogy, or The Amazing Spiderman or the Sherlock Holms movies and a whole bunch of others show how it can be done right. I just watch a few Episodes of The Pacific and they sounded outstanding. It's a shame that we can get some sort of common theme with audio. Oh well. I just end up turning it down if I sense it it one of those and I still enjoy it. On one end, I just lowered the new Star Trek movie and it was fine. On the other end, I just turn up Avatar and The Avengers or The Man of Steel and I am fine with the result. I guess I just wanted a standard. But I get what you are saying.
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post #1069 of 1070 Old 08-29-2014, 09:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I am just throwing spit balls here so correct me if I am wrong. I setup VLC to play back my regular DVD's. When I see the audio Craig said that I would get whatever audio I ripped but that I would not know what it is. That's fine since I only rip one audio per disk. Now I have been having a hell of a time getting Thor The Dark World to display "forced" subtitles in Jriver. I have tried just about every combo I can think of. I checked off everything and still it would not work. But, I played it in the VLC player and I was getting closed captions and forced subtitles. My question id if I can get it to display the forced subtitles correctly in VLC, and it says MULTICH on the front of my Integra, does that mean that I am still getting the high rez audio that I ripped? If it does then I am golden. I will just use VLC to watch Thor 2. It still looks great to me.

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post #1070 of 1070 Old 09-09-2014, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Thought I posted an update but I did not. I was so frustrated with Thor 2 I had just about given up. Then I saw in another thread where a user named desertdome built a custom server for one of the HToTM. He seemed very knowledgeable about home theater computers and Jriver which I use. So, I took a shot and sent him a PM asking for his help. Through many PM's, we were able to work through the issue and now forced subtitles work on Thor 2. It was pretty complex and I would have never been able to figure it out on my own. So, even though he probably won't see it, I wanted to thank him for all his help in this.

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