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post #1081 of 1107 Old 11-19-2014, 07:47 AM - Thread Starter
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I know Craig said he would jump in here when he had the time but I just wanted to add a bit more. Last night I listened to some more music. I listened to some Audioslave. Not high end music to say the least. Pretty heavy and driving at times. But I have to say that it sounded fantastic. You can say it's my imagination. That's OK. But I know that the lyrics were clearer. Chris does not have the best voice in the world. But I heard more distinct lyrics this time then I ever did before. Some parts are still impossible but that's his style. But a lot of other parts were easier to understand without straining myself. It sounded cleaner. I don't know why but it did. Also, the music sounded better. It did not sound like it was mashed up. Plus the center sound stage improved. So I know we did something. Either re running the EQ or setting the distance in in the Integra made a major difference. Craig said that by re doing the distance, we insured that the sound would reach my main seat at the correct time. What ever we did, I know it's not a placebo effect. It sounds much better then it did before.

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post #1082 of 1107 Old 11-19-2014, 05:14 PM
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Saturday Craig was nice enough to come for a bit. About two weeks ago, he said how about I come over Sat and we do some watching on your system. Well, of course I said that would be great. So Craig came over at about 11:00 and left about 4:00. Now, knowing he was coming over I asked if we could just do some quick testing. I did not want that to take up too much time because normally when he comes over, all we end up doing is connecting something I bought or setting something else up and we really have not watched to many full movies in my room. It's normally just clips. That changed on Sat though. More on that later.

So first when I replied back I asked if he would mind taking some measurements. I thought something was wrong but I did not know what it was. Whenever I would run test tones with my Integra I never got a reading on my Rat Shack SPL meter. It would always say "low". I knew something was wrong but I did not know what it was. Craig brought over his own analog spl meter. Long story short, the problem I was having was that my digital spl meter was broke . So there was nothing wrong with my system. Let this be a lesson. When you measure, make sure what you are using is working properly.
If your system is playing and you can hear some SPL, but the SPL meter only says "Lo", there likely something wrong with the SPL meter.

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We made some adjustments to the levels so that all the speakers were at 75db and I think we set the sub to 78db. Then, for some reason, which I can't remember, we made some changes with my SMS-1. It was a little more work because I did not have the mic on hand but Craig used his laptop. So we did some tests and he made some adjustments in there as well.
The SMS-1 tweak was to correct a dip I found just above where we had previously made a huge cut with 3 bands of the SMS-1. These cuts were done to correct a huge peak at about 45 Hz. We've documented that process previously in Mike's thread, so I won't bother to explain that further. The huge cut was causing a dip just above the problem frequencies. I took one of the filter bands, narrowed the Q in that band to about 1/6th octave, and reduced the cut in that band by 3 dB. There was still enough correction to cut the problem frequencies, but the dip above the problem frequencies disappeared.

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Then after that we ran Audyssey. It seems every time we do it, Craig learned a new trick. So we ran it, Craig did some tweaks. After that it sounded insane.
New trick this time was to run with the mic at the 1st position twice, making the 1st position a higher priority. Since Mike's sweet spot is the highest priority, adding a 2nd measurement there gave it higher priority in Audyssey's "fuzzy logic." The result was somewhat flatter response post Audyssey.



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Craig sat in the center seat with the Crowson. First we just listened to one or two songs. He said the center image was really good. It sounded great from where I was sitting as well. Craig saw that one speaker was moved a bit so he went in and adjusted the distance. That made a big difference.
I did the tweak where you can adjust the position of a phantom central image by adjusting the relative speaker distance. The phantom central image was being pulled slightly to the right. I added the smallest increment possible to the distance of the right speaker, (0.1 ft.) The central image snapped right back in the center of the front stage. (For anyone reading along who wants to understand how this works, do a search for the "Haas Effect" or the "precedence effect.")

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Then we were able to watched X-Men Days of Future Past. I know I say this every time, but my system has never sounded better. Because of the new calibration(I don't know what was different), we were able to listen to it with the level higher then I have listened before. I think we were at -13. It sounded incredible. It was so smooth and the highs all the way to bass was just fantastic. Craig was in the Crowson seat so he got that extra shake. I think he liked what we ended up with. It was really tough though to do the setup because there was a lot of traffic right outside my window and we were worried that it would mess the calibration up. But that really did not mess anything up thankfully.
Audyssey did repeat several measurements, adding 10 dB to the level of the chirps because it found the ambient background noise too high on some of the test runs. However, it compensates for those higher level test signals, and the Audyssey run turned out fine. The results sounded as good to me as they did to Mike.

Mike has a fairly high-powered system in a small room at a relatively close seating distance. The combination of his room treatments, the SMS-1 pre-Audyssey and then Audyssey's XT32 Room Correction make his system sound just spectacular. The fact that Mike's well-trained ears enjoy it as much as they do is testament to that.

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I am really impressed with how great my system sounds now. I am back to not wishing I had other speakers. I hope Craig comes in here and maybe posts some of his thoughts on my system . Anyway, it was a great day. After Craig left I watched Snow White and The Huntsman. Sound=awesome. Then I also watched a little of Die Hard 5. Sound=incredible. So thanks again Craig. You helped bring my system up a few more levels.
It was indeed a fun day Mike. Thanks for hosting me.

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post #1083 of 1107 Old 11-19-2014, 05:18 PM
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I know Craig said he would jump in here when he had the time but I just wanted to add a bit more. Last night I listened to some more music. I listened to some Audioslave. Not high end music to say the least. Pretty heavy and driving at times. But I have to say that it sounded fantastic. You can say it's my imagination. That's OK. But I know that the lyrics were clearer. Chris does not have the best voice in the world. But I heard more distinct lyrics this time then I ever did before. Some parts are still impossible but that's his style. But a lot of other parts were easier to understand without straining myself. It sounded cleaner. I don't know why but it did. Also, the music sounded better. It did not sound like it was mashed up. Plus the center sound stage improved. So I know we did something. Either re running the EQ or setting the distance in in the Integra made a major difference. Craig said that by re doing the distance, we insured that the sound would reach my main seat at the correct time. What ever we did, I know it's not a placebo effect. It sounds much better then it did before.
I'm really glad you're enjoying it so much. I think the biggest improvement we made was to allow the system to be turned up higher than you were running it. At -12, you are still within the safe operating range of the Crowson, so feel free to use the MVC to put that smile on your face.

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post #1084 of 1107 Old 11-20-2014, 05:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the update on what we did Craig. I still am impressed with how great everything sounds now. The trend seems to be high sensitivity, high output speakers or powered speakers. There are quite a few people who have Mark S speakers and I can comment first hand that they are dynamic and crystal clear beyond imagination. Craig is using speakers that are very high sensitive(at least 94db) and that coupled with his subs, treatment and eq'ing of the system make it an experience I have seldom heard repeated. Claude is using the Triad Gold L\C\R which are 92db and also like the speakers Craig has, aren't made to go very low so I assume they are also very dynamic. Then you have all the JTR guys who have speakers that are sensitive as well and that I am sure can just hit high spl with no issue.

Then you have me. My speakers are designed to be full range and are not very sensitive. Probably 90db and dip into 4ohm territory on a good day. Just like Frank has. But, with proper setup, they sound fantastic and I am not lacking for dynamics at all. The entire system just sounds so good and like Craig said, we had it up to -12. I just want to say that it was Craig's idea to do that . We were watching the movie, I think we started at -18 like I normally do and he said turn it up. So I did, I went up to -17 . So he took the remote from me and put it to -12. It sounded so freaking smooth I could not believe it. No fatigue at all. I did not think I could go that high. I still don't know why doing what we did is allowing me to turn the system up so high but it is. TBH, scenes like the beginning of EOT, or when Sam gets transported to the grid or when the big dragon attacks in HTTYD still scare me so I may not be that brave and back it down a bit with those. But right now, it sounds superb. Thanks again Craig.

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post #1085 of 1107 Old 11-20-2014, 11:57 AM
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So satisfying when everything comes together - nice work. Now you can sit back and enjoy... at least until the next round of tweaking begins. Any hardware changes on the horizon? Not that you need any.

I also have a small room, with a 10' MLP, so it's easy to understand why you go past -12. What distance is your MLP?

There's definitely something to be said about the efficiency of high sensitivity speakers. High SPL with minimal wattage, sign me up!

 


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post #1086 of 1107 Old 11-20-2014, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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So satisfying when everything comes together - nice work. Now you can sit back and enjoy... at least until the next round of tweaking begins. Any hardware changes on the horizon? Not that you need any.

I also have a small room, with a 10' MLP, so it's easy to understand why you go past -12. What distance is your MLP?

There's definitely something to be said about the efficiency of high sensitivity speakers. High SPL with minimal wattage, sign me up!
Yes it is. But it would not be where it is today without my consulting with Craig and other people and his great skill at calibrating my system. He has done it so many times that he could probably do it in his sleep. My MLP is probably between 8-9 feet. My SPL meter is broken so I don't know how loud I am getting now but I do know that in my room, around 105db peaks are really loud. I can go louder if I want. I think the loudest I ever measured a while ago was about 110-112db. That was during WOTW and it scared me for real. I have 300 watts going to my L\R and 150 watts to my center and surrounds plus my 2400 watt sub so I think I am good on the power front. But having speakers that have high sensitivity sure makes it easier.

As for hardware changes, I don't think so. The amps suit me fine. The 80.3 does the job I need it to and I really can't get a bigger TV. Also, my speakers are great(to me). So probably no major changes. Thanks for stopping by.

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post #1087 of 1107 Old 11-20-2014, 12:24 PM
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Mike,

Surely you want to upgrade your speaker system to include overhead speakers for Atmos and Auro3D! What would any modern A/V system be without support for those new up-and-coming audio formats????


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post #1088 of 1107 Old 11-20-2014, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Mike,

Surely you want to upgrade your speaker system to include overhead speakers for Atmos and Auro3D! What would any modern A/V system be without support for those new up-and-coming audio formats????

La La La La. I can't hear you. But to be serious, there are a few reasons why this can't easily be done. First, with my ceiling treatments, I am not sure I could get the "proper" positioning for them(the speakers). Second, I would need another amp or trade in my amps and try to get two to power all the speakers I would need. Third, I would need a new preamp. Unlike a lot of people I run separates. A lot of people are running receivers so I think that makes it easier for them. I would need to get a pre amp that would support the new formats.

But even if all that other stuff was possible, the biggest road block is my server. It is only HDMI 1.4 not 2.0. You need 2.0 to get full Atmos playback. I don't know of any ready made server that is as easy to use as my Baetis that I could get. Before you say "just change boards", I don't know if that can be done and I wouldn't know how to do it anyway. I am a server guy now. I really don't want to go back to disks again. So, my one plan is, once more titles come out that I like with Atmos, I will upgrade to the latest version of Jriver and I will at least get TRUHD. The only other way is get a custom made server with an HDMI 2.0 board. Someone built one for a HToTM so I would probaly turn to him. But what I have works in my room so probably no Atmos for me. But thanks for stoking the fire .

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post #1089 of 1107 Old 11-20-2014, 01:11 PM
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Yeah that Craig guy knows his stuff. To be honest, I've been slowly gaining knowledge from him for years.

Not to be a pill, but with your narrow room you could wall mount the speakers at ceiling. Also, I play Atmos material on my HDMI 1.4 setup.

 


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post #1090 of 1107 Old 11-20-2014, 01:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah that Craig guy knows his stuff. To be honest, I've been slowly gaining knowledge from him for years.

Not to be a pill, but with your narrow room you could wall mount the speakers at ceiling. Also, I play Atmos material on my HDMI 1.4 setup.
So you get the actual Atmos soundtrack through an HDMI 1.4 setup? I thought that was impossible. Just to be clear, if I had an Atmos preamp, and jriver 20(which supports Atmos) you are saying that I could get the full Atmos soundtrack and not just the TRUHD "core" with my server that only has HDMI 1.4. Take Transformers 4 for example. That has an Atmos soundtrack. I could get the full soundtrack with my current server? If so, that would be great for the future.

It would be great if you could explain how you do it without having HDMI 2.0.

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post #1091 of 1107 Old 11-20-2014, 01:37 PM
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Yes, I run what little Atmos material is avail thru my htpc, use Jriver v19 and powerdvd14, with HDMI 1.4 - no issues.

 


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post #1092 of 1107 Old 11-20-2014, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
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I have JR 18 right now because it suits my needs. But do you need both JR and powerdvd 14
I did find powerdvd online
http://www.cyberlink.com/products/po...res_en_US.html
Do those play back Atmos as well?

But I would still be unsure how to use that kind of setup. Do you somehow run JR and powerdvd together? Which version did you get? This is an interesting development and if it works as you say, well, that would make me very happy. But how does it all flow together. I have the latest version of MakeMKV which can get me the Atmos soundtrack. If you had steps on what to do, that would be great.

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post #1093 of 1107 Old 11-20-2014, 01:54 PM
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La La La La. I can't hear you.
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But to be serious, there are a few reasons why this can't easily be done. First, with my ceiling treatments, I am not sure I could get the "proper" positioning for them(the speakers). Second, I would need another amp or trade in my amps and try to get two to power all the speakers I would need. Third, I would need a new preamp. Unlike a lot of people I run separates. A lot of people are running receivers so I think that makes it easier for them. I would need to get a pre amp that would support the new formats.
Right: you'd need (at least) two more amp channels + two more speakers, preferably four of each. The Denon/Marantz Atmos-capable AVRs include a full set of preamp outputs in addition to their internal amps, so (in principle at least) the additional overhead speaker channels could be driven by the AVR while you continue to use your existing amps for your existing speakers. The Marantz AV7702 pre/pro ($2K list) just started shipping. The AV8802, which probably would be considered more the equivalent of your current pre/pro, won't be available until next spring. FWIW, D+M still have Audyssey, unlike Onkyo/Integra, which has dropped it for this model year so they could provide Atmos more cheaply.

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But even if all that other stuff was possible, the biggest road block is my server. It is only HDMI 1.4 not 2.0. You need 2.0 to get full Atmos playback.
(Un)fortunately, that's incorrect. Atmos works fine with HDMI 1.4. e.g. I've played Atmos soundtracks using a Sony BDP-S590 Blu-ray player, which predates HDMI V2.

However, HDMI V2.0 with HDCP V2.2 copy-protection *is* required for copy-protected 4K video, and equipment containing HDCP chips capable of full bandwidth 18GHz 4K video (e.g. from 4K Blu-rays) won't be available until next year. Current HDCP V2.2 chipsets only support up to 10GHz.

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I don't know of any ready made server that is as easy to use as my Baetis that I could get. Before you say "just change boards", I don't know if that can be done and I wouldn't know how to do it anyway.
No new boards will be needed, for Atmos, anyhow.
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I am a server guy now. I really don't want to go back to disks again. So, my one plan is, once more titles come out that I like with Atmos, I will upgrade to the latest version of Jriver and I will at least get TRUHD.
Atmos support does require an up-to-date copy of JRiver. There's a bug in their Dolby TrueHD audio decoding that was fixed in roughly the past month so Atmos soundtracks could be played.
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The only other way is get a custom made server with an HDMI 2.0 board. Someone built one for a HToTM so I would probaly turn to him. But what I have works in my room so probably no Atmos for me. But thanks for stoking the fire .
Understood. But, as Spanglo and I have pointed out, you won't really need to upgrade to HDMI v2 for Atmos -- not until you decide it's time for 4K video. That'll require replacing both your pre/pro and your TV in addition to upgrading your server's HDMI output. By that time it hopefully would be a standard upgrade option rather than a specialty item.

Waiting at least another year might be appropriate (If Sony does actually produce any, 4K Blu-rays are expected to start shipping barely in time for the 2015 holiday season.)

I'd been thinking about upgrading from 5.1 to 11.1 for a couple of years, so the availability of Atmos at an almost reasonable price was enough to push me over the edge.

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post #1094 of 1107 Old 11-20-2014, 02:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Well all this is very interesting. This is a lot to digest right now. I have no real immediate plans for 4k. So in reality, "all" I would need is a new preamp, and the upgraded version of Jriver. Then I could get the Atmos soundtrack? I plan on getting the Jriver upgrade when more Atmos disks are released. Then I can at least get TRUHD for the time being until I decide to upgrade to a newer preamp. The other thing is I am kind of spatially challenged when it comes to equipment. Adding another amp, in addition to what I have would be a pain. I am wondering if Atmos 5.1 is a noticeable improvement over TRUHD or DTS-MA.
My head is swimming right now. Thanks for the info guys. It is most helpful.

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post #1095 of 1107 Old 11-20-2014, 02:22 PM
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I have JR 18 right now because it suits my needs. But do you need both JR and powerdvd 14
I did find powerdvd online
http://www.cyberlink.com/products/po...res_en_US.html
Do those play back Atmos as well?

But I would still be unsure how to use that kind of setup. Do you somehow run JR and powerdvd together? Which version did you get? This is an interesting development and if it works as you say, well, that would make me very happy. But how does it all flow together. I have the latest version of MakeMKV which can get me the Atmos soundtrack. If you had steps on what to do, that would be great.
To clarify, PowerDVD14 for ISO playback only, JR19 handles everything else. Actual Disc playback thru PS4.

I remember reading in the JR forums that there is a way to configure JR to automatically play ISO via PDVD, so it has been done successfully.

 


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post #1096 of 1107 Old 11-20-2014, 02:23 PM
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Another FWIW: almost everybody who has heard it considers the new Dolby Surround upmixer (which accompanies Atmos but is not part of it) to be a substantial improvement over the Dolby ProLogic and Audyssey DSX upmixers -- enough better that it's worth doing the upgrade just for that. Some people do feel that there are a small number of circumstances where DTS Neo:X seems to be better, though. DSU can be used with any soundtrack, not just those recorded using Dolby.

Maybe Craig can provide an Atmos-capable unit for you to try?

Sometimes this seems like we're all addicts trying to push a new drug on the unsuspecting....


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post #1097 of 1107 Old 11-20-2014, 05:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the clarification Spanglo. That may be above my pay grade, if you know what I mean.

Selden. I guess this is my main question. Will I hear a significant difference in movies in a 5.1 setup between TRUHD, DTS-MA or Atmos. This is why I ask. When I went from Dolby Prologic to Dolby Digital, I heard a big difference. Then when I went from just the "core" audio to full Dolby Digital and DTS I heard a difference. Then when I went from Dolby Digital and DTS to TRUHD and DTS-MA I heard a difference. This is all still with a 5.1 system. I would say that each change was worth the price. In a 5.1 setup, will I hear a big enough difference to warrant upgrading to Atmos.

It seems like I could do the Atmos audio if I get an Atmos preamp and upgrade my Jriver. Now upgrading the preamp won't happen soon but when there are more, good Atmos titles, I would upgrade Jriver so I could at least get TRUHD with my 80.3. Then, later down the line, I would think about upgrading to an Atmos preamp. But only if the Sound Quality in a 5.1 system would be noticeably better then what I would have with TRUHD.

So for arguments sake, are we saying that I could get the new Marantz preamp, upgrade to Jriver 20, plug my server into the Marantz and I would get an Atmos soundtrack? If so then that is perfect because I will have no use for 4k until long in the future.
Let me know if I have my logic straight guys because I am out of my element here .
Selden, are also saying that it is possible to up mix a TRUHD track to an Atmos track? Or any track for that matter? Even the way I would have it connected?
Thanks for the info .

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post #1098 of 1107 Old 11-21-2014, 11:50 AM
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Thanks for the clarification Spanglo. That may be above my pay grade, if you know what I mean.

Selden. I guess this is my main question. Will I hear a significant difference in movies in a 5.1 setup between TRUHD, DTS-MA or Atmos.
Yes.
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This is why I ask. When I went from Dolby Prologic to Dolby Digital, I heard a big difference. Then when I went from just the "core" audio to full Dolby Digital and DTS I heard a difference. Then when I went from Dolby Digital and DTS to TRUHD and DTS-MA I heard a difference. This is all still with a 5.1 system. I would say that each change was worth the price. In a 5.1 setup, will I hear a big enough difference to warrant upgrading to Atmos.
*I* think so, but I think it would be appropriate for you to experience it yourself to find out if it's a big enough improvement for you. There might be an A/V store near you which has set up a room to demo it. (Unfortunately, many of them aren't set up correctly. There have been horror stories about how bad some Best Buy/Magnolia stores are.)

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It seems like I could do the Atmos audio if I get an Atmos preamp and upgrade my Jriver. Now upgrading the preamp won't happen soon but when there are more, good Atmos titles, I would upgrade Jriver so I could at least get TRUHD with my 80.3.
TrueHD has been around since the beginning of Blu-ray and DVD-HD production, so I'd be surprised if your copy of JRiver doesn't support TrueHD already. It's just the newly added Atmos component that older versions of JRiver has difficulty with.

If you don't already have some movies with TrueHD soundtracks and want to test TrueHD (with or without Atmos), a variety of "lossless" demo trailers are available for downloading at http://www.demo-world.eu/trailers/hi...n-trailers.php Scroll down to the section headed "Dolby" and look for the entries with "lossless" in the description.

[quote] Then, later down the line, I would think about upgrading to an Atmos preamp. But only if the Sound Quality in a 5.1 system would be noticeably better then what I would have with TRUHD. It should be noticeable, since, after all, an Atmos soundtrack will make direct use of overhead speakers while a standard 7.1 or 5.1 soundtrack does not. (Although Dolby ProLogic IIz, Audyssey DSX and DTS Neo:X can upmix to use Front Height overhead speakers.)

Titles with Atmos soundtracks contain a standard Dolby TrueHD 7.1 soundtrack which has been enhanced to include Atmos metadata. That metadata describes how audio objects (defined by whoever mixed the movie's soundtrack) move around the room. In order to decode Atmos, current implementations require that you have overhead speakers, so you'd have what Dolby calls a 5.1.2 or 5.1.4 configuration. If you use Atmos equipment but don't have any overhead speakers, an Atmos-capable AVR or pre/pro plays any Atmos-enabled TrueHD 7.1 soundtrack downmixed to 5.1, just as non-Atmos equipment does.

Many movies with TrueHD soundtracks are already available, although most of them were produced in the early days of Blu-rays and DVD-HD. The dominance by DTS-HD MA happened later because of the greater ease of use of the DTS encoder software in mixing studios. (easier -> quicker -> cheaper)

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So for arguments sake, are we saying that I could get the new Marantz preamp, upgrade to Jriver 20, plug my server into the Marantz and I would get an Atmos soundtrack?
Yes.
Quote:
If so then that is perfect because I will have no use for 4k until long in the future.

Let me know if I have my logic straight guys because I am out of my element here .
You're close!
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Selden, are also saying that it is possible to up mix a TRUHD track to an Atmos track? Or any track for that matter? Even the way I would have it connected?
Thanks for the info .
Not exactly. Rather, Dolby has produced a new surround-sound upmixer they've given the old name Dolby Surround (to the annoyance of those of us who were around when they first introduced it decades ago). It's being made available at the same time as Dolby Atmos and replaces ProLogic on most Atmos-capable equipment. (I say "most" because Yamaha has managed to provide both ProLogic and Dolby Surround in their Atmos receivers.) The new Dolby Surround upmixer produces effects which sound very similar to what good Atmos soundtracks are expected to sound like. It seems to be particularly effective when applied to soundtracks of movies which were released theatrically with Atmos soundtracks, although most of them have been released on disc with DTS-HD MA soundtracks.
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post #1099 of 1107 Old 11-21-2014, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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"TrueHD has been around since the beginning of Blu-ray and DVD-HD production, so I'd be surprised if your copy of JRiver doesn't support TrueHD already. It's just the newly added Atmos component that older versions of JRiver has difficulty with."

I was unclear with that. I get both TRUHD and DTS-MA from my Jriver setup. What I meant by being able to get TRUHD was when upgrade to the latest version of Jriver. So when I played an ATMOS movie, it would default to TRUHD. Right now, in my setup, I am only getting a high rez version of Dolby Digital because I am using JR18 which can't read it. I tried it and it did not work. So I do get TRUHD and DTS-MA on all my BR rips that have them as audio options. As I said, I just want to be able to get the TRUHD soundtrack out of Atmos soundtracks at some point and for that I need to upgrade to JR20. Sorry for the confusion .

"In order to decode Atmos, current implementations require that you have overhead speakers, so you'd have what Dolby calls a 5.1.2 or 5.1.4 configuration. If you use Atmos equipment but don't have any overhead speakers, an Atmos-capable AVR or pre/pro plays any Atmos-enabled TrueHD 7.1 soundtrack downmixed to 5.1, just as non-Atmos equipment does."

OK. So if I played an Atmos soundtrack, through my standard 5.1 setup, I WOULD NOT get an Atmos soundtrack even with an Atmos capable preamp. Is that what we are saying? I would just get a TRUHD sound track played back through my 5.1 system. So if I plan on sticking with a 5.1 setup, at this point in time, it makes no sense to get an Atmos preamp. But, could I still rip the Atmos soundtrack so it is at least on my server and play back TRUHD with my Integra 80.3?

So all I need right now is to upgrade to Jriver 20.x.x and then I could have the Atmos soundtrack stored, ready to go, but in the mean time still get TRUHD. Is that correct?
Thanks for all of that great info. It has been very helpful.

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post #1100 of 1107 Old 11-21-2014, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post
"\
OK. So if I played an Atmos soundtrack, through my standard 5.1 setup, I WOULD NOT get an Atmos soundtrack. Is that what we are saying?
Yes.
Quote:
I would just get a TRUHD sound track played back through my 5.1 system. So if I plan on sticking with a 5.1 setup, at this point in time, it makes no sense to get an Atmos preamp. But, could I still rip the Atmos soundtrack so it is at least on my server and play back TRUHD with my Integra 80.3?
In principle, yes.
Quote:

So all I need right now is to upgrade to Jriver 20.x.x and then I could have the Atmos soundtrack stored, ready to go, but in the mean time still get TRUHD. Is that correct?
That's my understanding.
Quote:
Thanks for all of that great info. It has been very helpful.
You're very welcome.

Yet another FWIW: you could consider adding Front Height speakers to your current configuration, since they're supported by all of the upmixers and by your current pre/pro. That "investment" would carry forward to whatever future speaker configuration you decide on.

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post #1101 of 1107 Old 11-21-2014, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Yet another FWIW: you could consider adding Front Height speakers to your current configuration, since they're supported by all of the upmixers and by your current pre/pro. That "investment" would carry forward to whatever future speaker configuration you decide on.
I am very space challenged so I would need to get rid of one of my amps and get a five channel amp to do that (in addition to my 2ch amp). Maybe one day. Plus I would need to see if could place them properly in my room. But I have thought about that. Thanks for continuing to stoke the fire.

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post #1102 of 1107 Old 11-23-2014, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I just want to be %100 clear here. Sometimes my L.D kicks in. If I keep my Integra 80.3 and upgrade to JR 20.x.x and then I rip a movie with an Atmos soundtrack, when I play it back, I would get a TRUHD sound track even though my preamp is not Atmos compatible. Is that correct or do I need an Atmos preamp for that to happen.

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post #1103 of 1107 Old 11-24-2014, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post
I just want to be %100 clear here. Sometimes my L.D kicks in. If I keep my Integra 80.3 and upgrade to JR 20.x.x and then I rip a movie with an Atmos soundtrack, when I play it back, I would get a TRUHD sound track even though my preamp is not Atmos compatible. Is that correct or do I need an Atmos preamp for that to happen.
That is correct. The pre/pro will ignore the Atmos metadata.

There are at least 1191 BD titles which have TrueHD soundtracks. See http://www.blu-raystats.com/Stats/Stats.php The decoder for TrueHD is included in the DHC 80.3. (See page 6 and many others in the owner's manual.) You do not need an Atmos decoder to listen to them. If those (mostly older) discs were properly ripped, then you should see the TrueHD indicator light up on the pre/pro's front panel. If they were not properly ripped, they would have lossy 5.1 Dolby Digital.

There are only two or three BDs with Atmos right now: Step Up All In, Transformers Age of Extinction and soon the latest version of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. One can hope that newer Atmos titles will be somewhat more watchable than those!
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post #1104 of 1107 Old 11-24-2014, 05:26 AM - Thread Starter
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That's really cool. So I can set myself up later for Atmos but still have TRUHD through my Integra 80.3. Once I upgrade to MC20 I will re rip Transformers 4 but not now. It sounds fine as is with higher bit Dolby Digital. I told myself I would wait until there are close to 10 titles that I want before I upgrade to MC20. Until then, I will just make due with what I have. I was just wondering if you needed an Atmos capable preamp in order to actually get to the "root" TRUHD" soundtrack that is buried in it. If that makes sense.
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post #1105 of 1107 Old 11-24-2014, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post
That's really cool. So I can set myself up later for Atmos but still have TRUHD through my Integra 80.3. Once I upgrade to MC20 I will re rip Transformers 4 but not now. It sounds fine as is with higher bit Dolby Digital. I told myself I would wait until there are close to 10 titles that I want before I upgrade to MC20. Until then, I will just make due with what I have. I was just wondering if you needed an Atmos capable preamp in order to actually get to the "root" TRUHD" soundtrack that is buried in it. If that makes sense.
Thanks
Think of it as Dolby making the technology backwards compatible (sort of like USB 3.0 drives working just fine on USB 2.0 outlets).

The TrueHD file is the base file and the Atmos metadata is an add-on for AVRs that can read it. If the AVR can't read it, it just plays the base TrueHD file.

If the AVR can read/decode the Atmos metadata but sees that you don't have Height speakers, it just plays the TrueHD track for the speakers you DO have, similar to the way a 7.1 audio track is downmixed to 5.1 if that's all that you have connected.

I don't have Atmos but archived the Atmos track on Transformers 4 just fine. It plays as TrueHD on my setup, but if/when I upgrade to Atmos in the future (waiting to see when we can have 9.1.4), I won't need to re-rip TF4 as the rip has the Atmos track/metadata in it.


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post #1106 of 1107 Old 11-24-2014, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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That's the way I was hoping it would be Max but I did not just want to assume it worked that way. It makes me feel much better now. I will need to re rip it(TF4) because I only ripped the Dolby Digital soundtrack since JR18 can't read Atmos to give me the TRUHD soundtrack. But that's OK. Like I said, I will probably wait for a few more Atmos BR's to come out then I will upgrade my Jriver.
Thanks Max.

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post #1107 of 1107 Old Today, 05:31 AM - Thread Starter
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I watched the third Expendables movie last night. It is an Atmos title but I could only rip the Dolby Digital soundtrack. Let me say that in my room, with the high bit rate transfer, it sounds great. The bass is just crazy. Dialog is clear. Surrounds are used well. I really don't see the need to upgrade to the higher level of Jriver just to get a TRUHD soundtrack when I doubt that many people could tell the difference in my room. To me, it sounds about 90% of what at TRUHD soundtrack would be and that is fine for me. It had many smile inducing moments. Just like I felt when I watched TF4. So I am in no rush to upgrade at this point.

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